₦airaland Forum

trustman:
Ok then, let's see again a few things from the book:

First it should be noted that these are Hagin's views. The Bible still stands as the supreme authority. 

I want to home in on this:
"There are a number of teachings and practices in the Church today, particularly among Charismatic groups, that can lead to misunderstandings and hurtful problems. Many times, these errors are the result of people taking a Bible verse, or part of a verse, out of context or by carrying an application too far. Sometimes there has been an overzealous attempt to make a New Testament application of some Old Testament phrase or technicality that absolutely does not apply. Taken to the extreme, these teachings can become abuses and false practices."

Chapter one 
Determine in your heart to put spiritual things first and to esteem earthly things lightly. Put God first, even before your own self. You'll be blessed spiritually, physically, and in every way—you and your family as well.

Do WoF congregations put spiritual things first? By the way, what are the spiritual things they should put first? What are the earthly things they should esteem lightly?

Where in reality are their emphasis?

Chapter two
After the Lord showed me this, He said, "Whatever you need, you just claim it."
Does anywhere in the Bible, particularly the NT, corroborate this?
At the end of this chapter what 'AUTHORITY IN THE AREA OF FINANCES' can we glean from the NT regarding the Christian?

Angels Are Ministering Spirits - under whose authority? How did Jesus use them? How did Paul and other apostles use them? Any scriptural backing?


WAS JESUS POOR?
What kind of offering did the parents present at his dedication? (Luke 2:24, Leviticus 12:8

"For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sokes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich."
- 2 Corinthians 8:9
So 'poor' and 'poverty' here are not talking about material lack (it has to do with something spiritual?) yet 'rich' in the same text refers to abundant physical provisions and prosperity? Whao! 

Again, and it needs repeating, Jesus' ministry is like no one else'. His ministry was unique. 

On the one hand Hagin said: "The idea that God wants His children poor, having no material things, is totally unscriptural."
Then he went on to say: "In short, material wealth can be connected to the blessings of God or it can be totally disconnected from the blessings of God. Certainly, financial prosperity is not an infallible gauge of a person's spirituality. 

How many WoF devotees today actually go all out to:
"Interpret the Word of God Correctly

Please understand that I am not trying to be cynical, nor am I trying to take away anyone's faith concerning God meeting his needs. But I believe it is important that we be realistic and sound in what we teach. We must "rightly divide" the Word of God and carefully seek the truth in interpreting the Scriptures."

When the issue of Logos and Rhema comes up or like even came up severally in this Hagin's book 'the spirit said' or 'the Lord told me' where lies the objective interpretation of God's word?

Do WoF advocates truly believe this:
"Overemphasizing or adding to what the Bible actually teaches invariably does more harm than good." ?

Hagin said:
"Making a New Testament application of Old Testament technicalities violates every principle of Bible interpretation, especially when there isn't a single New Testament usage of the word "firstfruits" in the context in which it is being preached by some ministers."
But he and other WoF advocates fail to use this same mindset to look at the issue of Tithing. Why, one may ask, is this so?


How many WoF devotees will agree with this:
"Another crucially important issue is that ministers should never suggest or lead people to believe that prosperity means conspicuous, lavish wealth. It simply is not true that everyone who has faith for prosperity will live in a palace, drive a luxurious car, and dress in expensive, designer-label clothes.
Prosperity is relative. For some people, being able to pay their bills and provide the basic comforts of life for their families would be a great blessing—a definite step up. "

Hope these are enough food for thought for now on the book. BTW, those crying wolf over the derailing of the thread should also NOTE that when they veer off into comments on other people's thread in this same thread they are doing the same thing they accuse others of.

WinsomeX:
He has done so time without number. It is you and Bidam that have become hard of hearing. Just provide the said quote or allow us to rest.

Very soon you people will be crying foul, saying someone is derailing a Hagin thread with WoF discusses. When you people introduce Eve and serpent to such a thread, one cannot call it DERAILing anymore. It is DELUSION.

Gombs:
^^
I was about replying you concisely, but when I saw you doubted angels are miniistering spirits under the authority of a believer in Christ Jesus! Even though Hagin gave you scriprures? I didn't want to continue the use of greek words to explain somethings, because folks are having trouble understanding english already... I just decided to let you wallow in your ignorance! Oh! How I wish God will open your eyes to see how angels assigned to you await instructions from you, but guess what? He never will, till you understand why angels are angels.

But why is it that most of you have reading and comprehension problems? I must say Drummaboy and Kunle looks a bit sharper than the rest, who seem irredeemably dim witted.

I don dey go church.

Gombs:
^^
I was about replying you concisely, but when I saw you doubted angels are miniistering spirits under the authority of a believer in Christ Jesus! Even though Hagin gave you scriprures? I didn't want to continue the use of greek words to explain somethings, because folks are having trouble understanding english already... I just decided to let you wallow in your ignorance! Oh! How I wish God will open your eyes to see how angels assigned to you await instructions from you, but guess what? He never will, till you understand why angels are angels.

But why is it that most of you have reading and comprehension problems? I must say Drummaboy and Kunle looks a bit sharper than the rest, who seem irredeemably dim witted.

I don dey go church.

Bidam:
Deal with the book, rather than derailing the thread further with you and your cohorts.

@Gombs, no mind me jare, i just want to put this funny bloke where he belongs.

Image123:
If you didn't threaten me, then 'Malachi preachers' aren't threatening. They're just reading verses. See your life for outside? You're being hypocritical and double tongued. i defend giving to God, which is what every tithe and offering should be.

Bidam:
And where did my post mentioned cash?....if really you are not the dishonest fellow i thought you were, you would have seen where i mentioned other things aside money to vooks in my previous posts? I don't want to go into long verbal exchanges with your typical chocking eisegesis here. I don't have the luxury of that time pls. 
Is prayer compulsory? So what do you give in your local assembly? Your shoe,your belt,your wallet or your self or wife?
Very funny and rich coming from a dubious fellow like you. I do not have that luxury for lengthy exchanges..am quite busy of late. You can see my posts are limited of recent unlike you and your co-travellers. I had to sacrifice today to attend to all these mentions.if am not available to reply most of your posts doesn't mean i ran away. Just that duty calls. 
Maybe...if that will make you sleep better. You are busy attacking me now rather than talk about Malachi abi? 
It is better folks like you go study more, rather than waste time on websites looking for answers. I am not your teacher, the Holy Spirit is, a good piece of advise that you should take in good faith rather than raising "airs" here.

Na you sabi! Who is fond of merry go round here? I believe viewers can judge. Evn Jesus did not answer some "foolish questions" asked by the pharisees, the Son of Man went on with his teachings. Paul even says to avoid them. Folks can do best if left unanswered so they can search the truth for themselves.
Jesus is truth.We do nothing against the truth but for the truth.DO YOU KNOW THE TRUTH?

mbaemeka:
Trustman and Vooks

I wish you both will understand Paul. In Acts 10 & 11 the bible says Peter preached and
................
Sorry for my epistle, but can you see why Paul had to confront Peter? Even at that, did you notice he called him no names neither did he mock him in front of the other leaders. He simply corrected him so that they too could learn the lesson. It has nothing to do with what some of you do in the name of correcting an error especially as none of you are leaders. But if you feel you are right despite what scriptures say, ride on.

I rest my case on this issue.

trustman:
Hagin said:

"Making a New Testament application of Old Testament technicalities violates every principle of Bible interpretation, especially when there isn't a single New Testament usage of the word "firstfruits" in the context in which it is being preached by some ministers. 

The concept of firstfruits is not used in the New Testament in reference to financial giving. There is not even the vaguest hint of it by any New Testament writer in reference to money or the support of ministers."

The commonsense understanding of what Hagin said is simply this: Hagin does not advocate the demand for or the paying of 'Firstfruits'. 
However since your church believes in it strongly you are finding it hard to wriggle out of it. 
You have good 'comprehension' don't you?
Then explain these portions to us.

WinsomeX:
^^^

Very well said Candour.

Bidam:
You are also quick to respond without understanding. The word sarcasm doesn't exist in your dico abi?
Is it compulsory for christians to give? Tithing is NOWHERE ANNULLED IN THE NT.

Bidam:
If it doesn't exist, its in the figment of your imagination. You can say it doesn't apply to you since you are fond of cherry picking what best suits your fancy in the bible.

mbaemeka:
I don't believe anyone on this thread has said anything against exposing an error. It is fine to do so especially when you are sure (by the word) that what you are exposing is an error. While at it, it is advisable to follow the bible ordained way by leaving out the aspects of defaming the characters or making prevarications concerning them as is unbecoming of a christian.

gebest:
d truth is dat u should pay ur tithes for it is biblical, so which other truth are u talking about.

mbaemeka:
Knowing about the incidence was not Paul's intention. Someone says to Paul "James said without circumcision we Gentiles are not truly saved". Paul says "thats wrong no matter who says that. In fact while I was in Antioch I had to correct Peter infront of the other leaders when he suggested the same thing. This is not what the Lord taught me". Paul is clearly telling them to disregard the circumcision debate. Period.

And also when you say 'publicly' it depends on what you mean. When James told Paul about forbidding meat sacrificed to idols, he said it in 'public' I.e to the hearing of all the other leaders in the meeting. But he didn't say it publicly to the hearing of 'floor members' of the new Christian faith.

There are just some things you don't say in front of babes.

vooks:
Negro Please,
I have also studied deeply over the same. Read my favorite commentary, Cambridge Bible here;
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/galatians/2.htm
Turns out my hunch was right, Peter's epic hypocrisy is that he did this AFTER the Council in Jerusalem

Galatians is an epistle to the churches in Galatia. Paul mentions the Antioch incidence to the church(es) in Galatia. I never said Paul rebuked Peter in Galatia but that he shared this thorough and public rebuke with Galatians and by extension the world( you and me). Paul published to millions Peter's error. mbaemeka finds this revolting, I find a sound example that ought to be followed. You do realize that we can take off this incidence from Galatians WITHOUT diluting Paul's message do you?

Commentaries aside,let's THINK. Peter's action provoked others into hypocrisy. Which others? I hazard that others are Jews already in Antioch. The verses again;

Galatians 2:12-14

12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?


1. The THEM ALL of verse 14 can't possibly refer to the THEM of verse 13 sidestepping the intermediate THEM of verse 13
2. The THEM & THEIR of verse 13 is the 'OTHER JEWS' who dissembled

So the other Jews who dissembled MUST have been eating with the Gentiles before and ONLY stopped when Peter stopped.
Could these have been the ones who were sent from Jerusalem? Of course not because if they readily ate with the Gentiles and only stopped when Peter did, then Peter could not have been spooked

The logic is;
1. Peter is eating with Gentiles together with other Jews
2. Some Jews are sent from Jerusalem
3. Peter stops eating with Gentiles
4. Other Jews including Barnabas stop eating with the Gentiles as well
5. Peter is rebuked in front of other Jews who dubbed his hypocrisy

So my broda, don't attempt to restrict OTHERS to those who were sent from jerusalem because that is plain nonsense and baseless not to mention illogical.

Gombs:
^^
So, Hagin condemned firstfruits giving? Yes?

mbaemeka:
Melchizedek is what Bible students call a Theophany. There is alot to be known about him but many are too hard of hearing so they would not understand. Please don't call me a thief again. I only had to state my disinterest in discussing tithes because it is unhealthy and never ending. As for me, I will tithe till Jesus comes.

Bless you.

mbaemeka:
Melchizedek is what Bible students call a Theophany. There is alot to be known about him but many are too hard of hearing so they would not understand. Please don't call me a thief again. I only had to state my disinterest in discussing tithes because it is unhealthy and never ending. As for me, I will tithe till Jesus comes.

Bless you.

Gombs:
It's sad you have comprehension issues. Hagin quoted that for those preachers who claims they are the now priests, and first fruits belongs to them. But if you feel that Hagin will say that and still talk tithing, in same book, then I must say your comprehension ability is beyond redemption

Image123:
Congrats but no congrats. Go and get better revelation, like revelation about God and His ways. Stop having revelations about me.

Gombs:
Gbam!
1, 000, 000, 000 gbosa!

the colored is the coolest writting I've seen all day

Image123:
Oh, you don't have time or know the way to God? When did i become the one that teaches and explain bible to you? i'm i no more a bible twister and other such names you think of me?

nlMediator:
I thought you had a foolish thread you claimed would solve all the problems generated by WOF? Why can't you post this video there and hear me complain still? The point, which you know but pretend not to, is that this thread is about a book on prosperity. You can launch all your baseless attacks on WOF relating to that topic. To no avail, of course. But at least, you'd be on point. You are more interested in what you and your ilk do best: scatter a thread so at the end of the day nobody learns anything meaningful.

Let me know when you're done with your empty thread on WOF. It must be such a huge success that you find the time and cannot reist the urge to continue your WOF attacks on other threads.

Zikkyy:
...and the Lord did not request for a tithe of the 'many things that belong to him'. His command was clear enough, he requested for a tithe of farm produce.



This is not about the many things that belong to the Lord; it is about the 'tithe' that belong to the Lord. Yes, the earth is the Lord's but he did not command that a tithe of the 'earth' be given to Him. Instead he requested for a tithe of Farm produce.

Image123:
That is why you need to find time and God to tell you what it means. It is God that said it, not me. i knew already that you do not know, hence the advice.

MarkMiwerds:
maybe you needs to find out what that means. Nadab and Abihu offered that which the Lord had not commanded. It did not become "sanctified" on the altar.

The Priests in Malachi offered sick and blind animals. They did not become "sanctified".

Image123:
It is the altar that sanctifies the gift, and it is the temple that sanctifies the gold. Go, find time and God to learn what that means.

Image123:
Does this fellow read what he types? Am i the only one seeing this contradiction? It would be a milestone if trstman sees this for once.

trustman:
How about this on naming or never name names

Paul Rebukes Peter

Galatians 2:
11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he had clearly done wrong. 12 Until certain people came from James, he had been eating with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he stopped doing this and separated himself because he was afraid of those who were pro-circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also joined with him in this hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was led astray with them by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that they were not behaving consistently with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “If you, although you are a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you try to force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”