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Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman(op): 10:11pm On Nov 28, 2014

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F17: OBTAINING PECUNIARY ADVANTAGE BY DECEPTION[/size]

Essentially a Pecuniary Advantage involves money; it is an added monetary benefit gained by being richer than previously was the case.

It has become common to hear preaching and read books propagating the idea that pastors are to be the CEOs as well as Chief Accounting Officers of their churches. In practice this is what obtains in many owner-founder churches. What the combining of these two positions mean is that the pastor is solely responsible for how the church finances are utilized. As a result the decision as to how money is spent is done by them. Employing such money for personal use therefore becomes easy for such pastors. This is in addition to other means employed these pastors to fleece their sheep for personal pecuniary advantage.

As recently as this October 2014 news reports carried the warning of the Chairman of the Lagos chapter of Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria (PFN), warning that the body will not hesitate to separate itself from any church leader within the body who involves in extra-biblical practices for the purposes of making pecuniary gains.

This goes on to show that the issue of obtaining pecuniary advantage(s) by deception is very much around with us.

In the said report the PFN Chairman warned pastors against using psychology and human wisdom to wrest money from their members, he said the time had come for the body to act fast against any pastor that indulges in such practice.

This warning was not just to prevent such from happening but because, according to the Chairman, some pastors have actually been found to collect consultation fees before counseling and prayers. Other things done include sale of sand, mantle, olive oil that is purportedly from Israel and asking members to give certain amount of money from which they are told they will get ten times the money at specific time.

Many now refer to pastors as “pastorpreneurs” inferring that they have turned their calling into business enterprise. Many pastors are said to use their large membership to bargain for favours and other advantages from political leaders especially in an election year. The ostentatious lifestyles of some pastors seem out of place with the economic realities of the moment and that of the poor majority of their congregation.

As recently as 21 November, 2014 Pope Francis went against priests who are “attached to money”. He was said to have condemned at a mass priests and laity who impose unreasonable charges for weddings, baptisms, blessings and other services. He is reported to have said that “It is scandalous when the Temple, the House of God, becomes a place of business …”

A recent post on Nairaland brought this matter very close:

Marchman:
From Al Akhigbe from the forum, Where is Rev Anita Oyakhilome on FB

ALWAYS MONEY MATTERS

''Esteemed Group Pastor,

Warm greetings in the matchless name of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.Amen.
Congratulations on the just concluded International Pastors and Partners Conference.IPPC.
I have been directed by our highly esteemed Zonal Director, Pastor ----------- to remind you of your Financial commitment to offer 7, the birthday of our dear Man of God, Pastor Chris Oyakhilome, Phd.
The minimum target for each Group is ten million Naira only (N10,000,000.00) .

Kindly note that the money is expected on or before 2nd December as you are aware that the birthday is on the 7th of December.
Thank you for your outstanding commitment to the vision of our ministry.
Signed-----''

Now, the above letter just hit my email box. And I thought I should share a thought or two for the benefit of those who don't know why we are doing what we are doing.

Now, in this zone, there are twelve groups plus the zonal church. The twelve groups will give a total sum of N120,000,000.00 and the zonal church will give N100,000,000.00 making a total of N220,000,000.00 (equivalent of approximately USD $1.3 million dollars). Let us assume every zone in Nigeria alone gives $1 million dollars each, about $30 million dollars will accrue to one man. Ghana will give big, SA will not lag behind et cetera. Tell me why the man will not play God? This is aside the personal effects that will be sold on that day for tens of millions of dollars. Why should such a man admit to wrongdoing or take correction from a mere mortal? It can only take God to bring him to his kneels.
Ironically, those being fleeced of these monies are suffering and shouting hallelujah while our apostles live in flagrant luxury. Some businesses have grounded, homes broken, people pauperized because of these ungodly extortions. Giving is a Godly principle that works for Christian, pagans, Muslims, Buddhists, anyone and anywhere. But these manipulated exploitation of God's people is certainly not of God.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, how many times did Jesus celebrate his birthday? Okay, birthday was not in vogue then. We knew some people WILLINGLY ministered to Him of their substances. But how many times did Jesus call for donations or give his disciples targets to meet to enable Him run His ministry? Oh, I forgot, Jesus was too divine for such. Then, can someone show me which of the apostles or disciples that did it? All the doctrines of giving that is enforced in this ministry are borrowed from the old testament. When it concerns money, old testament is applied. But when it concerns righteousness, you are reminded that old testament have been abolished. That is why every iniquity they commit are explained away in the concept of sin.

As I explained in my book Acts Of Our Apostles, one of the major reasons most African nations are poor is the rate at which our churches mop up money from circulation. The already poor people are dispossessed of their meagre incomes to the tune of billions of dollars every year, not to be invested in any beneficial project for them, but to provide luxury and thin god status for the pastors. Offer 7, Offer 1,2,3 to 31 are all avenues for filthy lucre. Any endeavour that has no benefits to mankind is futile.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=355387424640529&id=265251816987424

https://www.nairaland.com/2014407/exposed-pst-chris-caught-asking#28330302

When church members are ‘DIRECTED’ to contribute a fixed amount towards their pastor’s birthday, money which MUST be raised before a particular date, that is NO LONGER a willing giving. It has become an order or a command to give toward the birthday. It is no longer following 2 Corinthians 9:7 “Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver”. It is the exact opposite of it. And all these are for the pecuniary advantage of the pastor or his ministry.

I REST MY CASE ON F17, FOR NOW.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 8:28pm On Nov 28, 2014

Gombs:
i have read the above verse, and saw none of the above bold, not even a vaguest hint...can you please furnish me how you concluded on that or at least paste your bible version?

It is not a verse i gave you. I gave you a whole chapter to look at but as usual you just glanced through and yet hope to get something without giving attention to details.

mbaemeka:
I didn't see anything of the sort. But let us assume it existed as you said it, isn't it contained in the law? I said the law and it's ordinances were put away. Everyone knows that. That's why we are talking about specific things that were done pre-law and in which nothing replaces them in the NT. The Abrahamic covenant was not cancelled.

You both should see these for starters;
These are from the ESV

Leviticus 23: 14
And you shall eat neither bread nor grain parched or fresh until this same day, until you have brought the offering of your God: it is a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

Leviticus 23:21
And you shall make a proclamation on the same day. You shall hold a holy convocation. You shall not do any ordinary work. It is a statute forever in all your dwelling places throughout your generations.

Leviticus 23:31
You shall not do any work. It is a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwelling places.

Even when you go back to Leviticus 16 the same things are found all over.

PS -
So maybe you can now answer my question:
How many of them do you or your church still follow today?

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 3:13pm On Nov 28, 2014

mbaemeka:
4. Nonsense again. God said it would be everlasting. Everlasting means even now. Paul said it is beneficial to you ONLY if you are obedient to all the laws or saved. You on the other say it was useful but not anymore. Please why was it useful before? If you can answer this,you will see the ccontradictions in your argument.
Thank you.

Leviticus 23 stated many things God said were to be done forever or 'throughout your generations' or words to that effect.
How many of them do you or your church still follow today?

3 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 8:24am On Nov 28, 2014

Gombs:
^^
Do you still maintain Circumcision was for Israel and Israel alone? Let us start from there.

Vooks, you've said your bit, me mine... let the readers see and discern which is true by God's Spirit. You might also want to revisit my post you quoted. I added some things after you added some others things to yours Thanks

First, can you see the point we are making?

Your question has been answered long ago in my response to Goshen360 maybe a page or so before.

Why not try and seek clear understanding of one issue before wanting to jump to another.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 8:09am On Nov 28, 2014

Gombs:
They still cannot comprehend this... no mind trustman and humility trash..he's yet to see my post to him. In acts 15, the apostles listed some of Moses' law that should be observed by the Gentiles, I now asked them, weremthe apostles mistaken to know the Law has been totally abolished?

You are the ones that things are difficult for to comprehend. Now, let's go about it this way:
1. In Acts 15 the issues were clear - At that council this was said about some of them: "But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses." (Acts 15:9).
In contention were:
- firstly, that it is necessary for Gentile believers to be circumcised physically.
- secondly, that it was necessary for them to be ORDERED to keep the law of Moses.

At the end of the day the decision arrived at which cancelled any necessity for physical circumcision as a precondition for anything in the spiritual life of the Christian was:
"28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements:
29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell."

The things listed by the Apostles through the Holy Spirit ( I emphasize THE HOLY SPIRIT because it was not just arbitrarily done by the Apostles) that the believers should abstain from were specific and definite. It does not give room for anyone to want to try and add to it TODAY.

Can anything be clearer than this?

Now, it did not mean no one MUST circumcise again. It only meant circumcision was no longer a condition or a sign of God's covenant with the NT believer. The sign is no longer a physical one but a spiritual one - the Holy Spirit - Ephesians 1: 13& 14

Again let me point you to Romans 4:
"9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness.
10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised.
11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well,"

What do we see here:
1. Abraham was saved by faith in Christ, as he was then revealed, BEFORE he was circumcised.

2. The verse 11 tells us the purpose was to make him the head representative of all who would believe WITHOUT being circumcised.

What does this tell us?
Simply this: circumcision is not the key issue for the spiritual life of the believer today.

In 1 Corinthians 7 we are told this:
"Was anyone at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision. Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision."
Why? Because circumcision is NO LONGER a precondition today for anything in the spiritual life of the Christian.

In Galatians 6 we see this:
"12 It is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh who would force you to be circumcised, and only in order that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ.
13 For even those who are circumcised do not themselves keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.
14 But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
15 For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
16 And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God."

This portion should again be self explanatory.

Lastly, understand that the principle of INSPIRATION guarantees that God's complete message to us was put down perfectly in Scripture.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 9:28pm On Nov 27, 2014

Goshen360:
The circumcision that was done IN THE FLESH was completely dismissed in the NT. It means something different to us in the NT. We can't over emphasize this point.

Absolutely!
My position also.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 12:32pm On Nov 27, 2014

Gombs

You can see defense mechanism all the way. Even when advised:
"Don't study them in defense mode, seek the truth out of them."

Humility will make it possible to learn, arrogance and defiance will make it impossible.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 9:29am On Nov 27, 2014

BabaGnoni:
LOL
- typical of a tithe lobbyist, thinking about rules, mistaking need to know information for "rules"

BabaGnoni, You've succinctly put forward the points. Like it's usually said: 'A word is enough for the WISE'

I've said it somewhere that the label antitither(s) is a MISNOMER. None of us on this side of the divide is putting up a STOP SIGN. That will be against the liberty of the believer. Unfortunately just as the simplest of Highway Code signs is strange to many, our WARNING SIGN is perhaps unfamiliar to those on the other side of the tithe debate. Rather than take time to UNDERSTAND the differences in the signs they would rather stick to their long-held positions.

Talking about road signs I've recently had to send a driver to a Driving School because, even though he 'drives', he lacked the basic knowledge about driving, not to talk about road signs. Strange? Not in our Naija context really. He was given a notebook to put down each day's theoretical & practical activities hoping that will reinforce his learning.

When faced with new realities the Christian needs to take the same kind of step I gave that driver - go and relearn. Humility will make it possible to learn, arrogance and defiance will make it impossible.

A pastor I've benefited from made this statement:
'A right thing done in a wrong way is wrong.
A wrong thing done in a right way is wrong.
A right thing has to be done in the right way for it to be right.'

Our people need to know, in this case, that a legitimate thing such as giving done in the wrong way is wrong before God. Giving, which is a right thing to do, must be done in the right way for it to be right before God.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 10:44pm On Nov 26, 2014

It is unfortunate that for a Christian thread the level of truthfulness expected is only found in a few. That the forum is largely faceless should make owning up to error an easy thing. But that is not to be. Even an exact and logical subject as maths is contested because some do not want to admit error.

Is that a reflection of the personal lives of the players?

Those of us who say that tithing is no longer compulsorily required of the New Testament believer do so because We want Christians to enjoy the freedom into which Christ has set them free.

Those who insist on tithing are leading them them into a yoke of slavery.

Making Christians tithe by means of any carrot and stick approach is tantamount to manipulating them to give. Asking anyone to go back to the so-called pre-law or tithing by faith options is not only misleading but mischievous.

When the Christian is not left to decide from his heart what to give, any system employed to get him to give becomes gimmick which nullifies the giving. It is that serious that Christians need to know how to give rightly.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 9:22pm On Nov 26, 2014

Gombs:
Stop quoting me! If you haven't found my reply to your wrong thinking of Acts 15, then please watch from afar, and stop quoting me. Apology huh? For telling you how you conveniently exercised your 'freedom of speech" and trading your honesty for a morsel of amala?

I challenge you again to clearly paste where traded my honesty or else I put it to you that you are not only the dishonest one but devious.

Continue to live your life of duplicity and denial. Your double-dealing will soon be exposed.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 7:24pm On Nov 26, 2014

Gombs:
At lesst you showed your poor mathematics ability, you sure were not playing dumb.

While you are at playing maths, I await:
1. Your 'Thank you' for my eye-opener to you on Acts 15 position.
2. Your apology.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 3:58pm On Nov 26, 2014

Gombs:
I'm gonna say this once...the Jerusalem council DID NOT cancel the out the necessity of circumcision and tithing. What they did was that they decided that Gentile converts to Christianity were not obligated to keep most of the Law of Moses, including the rules concerning circumcision of males.

Now, neither circumcision nor tithing has their inception in the Laws of Moses. And they were not obligated to keep most of the law because certain individuals came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved " . The council was prompt to debunk that. Same as I have been schooling you that circumcision NEVER made one righteous. They never as you claimed said tithing and circumcision were not necessary, they said circumcision was not necessary for righteousness. Abraham was declared righteous by faith even before circumcision.

The Council did, however, retain the prohibitions on eating blood, meat containing blood, and meat of animals not properly slain, and on fornication and idolatry, sometimes referred to as the Apostolic Decree orJerusalem Quadrilateral.

As you can see from above, the Law was not completely abolished, a fact mba, Joagbaje me, bidam has been teaching here for ages. Goshen360 the confused grace preacher never seem to comprehend this.

You conveniently ignore Acts 15:5 - "But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."
Tithing and circumcision were part of 'the law of Moses' referred to by these believers belonging to the party of the Pharisees.
Therefore if the decision was that all, except the things specified, were not binding on the Christian it follows then that circumcision and tithing are included in the all that are not binding.

See what you wrote:
"they decided that Gentile converts to Christianity were not obligated to keep most of the Law of Moses, including the rules concerning circumcision of males."
'NOT OBLIGATED' means not binding, not compelled, not under any pressure, not forced, not commanded, etc.

You can see then that this renders your first sentence incorrect. If the DECISION was that the necessity for circumcision and tithing was not obligatory on Gentile Christians then it simply means those things were cancelled out for the Christian.

You will agree with me too that, from the Council meeting, those things which were required of the Christians were clearly specified. It then also follows that no one has the right to insist or claim that anything not so specified is required of the Christian unless such is subsequently stated in the New Testament epistles.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 2:02pm On Nov 26, 2014

Gombs:
I've clearly asked you not to quote me. Open a thread or go to the WoF thread, tag it F25 and write away your thoughts undisputed. You are full of errors and going into further Jerusalem/council/circumcision will not help your case.

See the teachable one who can learn! My goodness! Did you admit you learnt Abraham was not Israelite? Of that Ishmael was circumcised, hence your theories were dead and superly carnal from an obsessed mind of a true gospel preacher crew.

Trustman, in simpler English, whenever you own up to your numerous blunder, let me know, then I can take you serious. Learn from Candour, though we don't agree in somethings, we are able to discuss and laugh and have headways. He NEVER make blunder like snakes and eve and Abraham being isrealite type of error.

Prove that the Jerusalem Council did not cancel out the necessity for circumcision and tithing. Your failure to do so will mean you admit it is so.

Clearly paste the posts where according to you I made 'numerous blunders' for all to see. If you can't then I demand an apology for attempting to blackmail me.

You and your clan are so eager to find faults rather than be objective. When you hit a brick wall you are pained.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 1:25pm On Nov 26, 2014

Gombs:
Amazing the nerves that bloke has, huh?

His fellow board member who sold his honesty and integrity for a morsel of pounded yam has the moral thought to tread same line he is, calling another ignorant and in denial, one wonders whether they discuss these in the board room!

Issues, context, doctrine!
You can't really handle these, can you?
I have thrown you a challenge. I await your response.
I have equally shown you how the Jerusalem Council knocked out the necessity for Christians to either be circumcised or be forced to tithe.
If you're teachable you will learn.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 8:44am On Nov 26, 2014

Matters Arising

On the issue of circumcision I want to believe we're now in agreement that it is NOT a precondition for anything today for the Christian.

That was what Romans 4 clearly explained.
"9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness.
10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised.
11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well,"

This agrees with the position at the Jerusalem Council. At that council this was said about some of them: "But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses." (Acts 15:9).

At the end of the council the Apostles and others agreed through the Holy Spirit to this: "28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements:
29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell."

That decision through the Holy Spirit cancelled any necessity for physical circumcision as a precondition for anything in the spiritual life of the Christian.

That decision also cancelled the necessity for any other observance, such as TITHING, as a requirement under the spiritual life of the Christian.

In addition, there is NOWHERE in scripture that talks about nor recommend the so-called 'tithing by faith'. Not one. So, trying to justify the necessity for tithing by such a name is a fallacy.

3 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 7:09am On Nov 26, 2014

Gombs:
Don't mind that fellow.

Broken-off fragment.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 12:11am On Nov 26, 2014

Gombs:
Don't you ever quote me again, and don't worry I won't quote you.

Cheers!

Say, is this an open forum or a restricted one?
You have your liberty but don't attempt to curtail mine. Ok?

3 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 11:31pm On Nov 25, 2014

Gombs:
So, you are the one that wants to teach Pastor Chris who taught me shey? Oya, I'm ready to learn from you. For starters, how have you reached out to the world of sinners so far? Share with me your strategies and successes. Thank you.

You have just given yourself away again.
We have not finished dealing with the matters on this thread and you want us
to go off to other ones. You are confirming what i have said repeatedly.

For your information, each Christian has his spiritual gift and God's allotted
sphere of assignment. Within that sphere when he does his service well he
receives God's approval.

Success to God may be completely different from man's measure so it
would out of place to begin to reduce success to figures like you guys have
done in recent times.

3 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 10:59pm On Nov 25, 2014

Gombs

That's your pseudo name.

Like you admitted clear truths that Abraham was not Isrealite.? Like you accepted clear truth that your noble board member said eve had sex with a...emmm... ?

Until you quote where i said something out of place do not expect me to be forced into another man's issue if i don't want to.
If that hurts you, sorry about that.

You, my friend, are a wonderful blueprint for denial.

You want me to commit to you? You must be joking. I am convinced beyond words that Pastor Chris is a man sent from God. Like it or not.

You can't even teach yourself, with numerous blunders, yet you want to teach me or even more Pastor Chris.

Provide me a more truer gospel, and I'd listen to you. Till then

Issues, content, doctrine!
When it comes to these, you guys fall flat on your faces.
You only prefer to spill out your leader's position even when it is clear to you
that it does not quite line up with scripture. So you look for escape routes or
resort to banter. That is why you RUN AWAY from answering so many of the
questions posed to you.

3 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 9:03pm On Nov 25, 2014

Denial

When Gombs and company refusal to admit to a clear truth, they live in denial.
Because they seem unable to cope with the possibility that their long-held positions
on several issues are wrong they seek for an escape route in denial.
They can face the prospects of changing perhaps several years of wrong teaching.
As a result they put all they can muster into trying to 'prove' that their perceived
opponents' positions are wrong no matter how ridiculous their arguments are.

They also display excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to their leader.
Even if a clear portion of scripture is shown them on an issue, as long it conflicts with
their leader's position they will refuse it.This expression is cultic.
That is why it is almost impossible for them to disagree with anything their leader says
or any stance he takes on an issue.

3 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 2:59pm On Nov 25, 2014

Gombs & Co,
Does The Midas Touch have anything to say on the issue below:

Marchman:
From Al Akhigbe from the forum, Where is Rev Anita Oyakhilome on FB

ALWAYS MONEY MATTERS

''Esteemed Group Pastor,

Warm greetings in the matchless name of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.Amen.
Congratulations on the just concluded International Pastors and Partners Conference.IPPC.
I have been directed by our highly esteemed Zonal Director, Pastor ----------- to remind you of your Financial commitment to offer 7, the birthday of our dear Man of God, Pastor Chris Oyakhilome, Phd.
The minimum target for each Group is ten million Naira only (N10,000,000.00) .

Kindly note that the money is expected on or before 2nd December as you are aware that the birthday is on the 7th of December.
Thank you for your outstanding commitment to the vision of our ministry.
Signed-----''

Now, the above letter just hit my email box. And I thought I should share a thought or two for the benefit of those who don't know why we are doing what we are doing.

Now, in this zone, there are twelve groups plus the zonal church. The twelve groups will give a total sum of N120,000,000.00 and the zonal church will give N100,000,000.00 making a total of N220,000,000.00 (equivalent of approximately USD $1.3 million dollars). Let us assume every zone in Nigeria alone gives $1 million dollars each, about $30 million dollars will accrue to one man. Ghana will give big, SA will not lag behind et cetera. Tell me why the man will not play God? This is aside the personal effects that will be sold on that day for tens of millions of dollars. Why should such a man admit to wrongdoing or take correction from a mere mortal? It can only take God to bring him to his kneels.
Ironically, those being fleeced of these monies are suffering and shouting hallelujah while our apostles live in flagrant luxury. Some businesses have grounded, homes broken, people pauperized because of these ungodly extortions. Giving is a Godly principle that works for Christian, pagans, Muslims, Buddhists, anyone and anywhere. But these manipulated exploitation of God's people is certainly not of God.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, how many times did Jesus celebrate his birthday? Okay, birthday was not in vogue then. We knew some people WILLINGLY ministered to Him of their substances. But how many times did Jesus call for donations or give his disciples targets to meet to enable Him run His ministry? Oh, I forgot, Jesus was too divine for such. Then, can someone show me which of the apostles or disciples that did it? All the doctrines of giving that is enforced in this ministry are borrowed from the old testament. When it concerns money, old testament is applied. But when it concerns righteousness, you are reminded that old testament have been abolished. That is why every iniquity they commit are explained away in the concept of sin.

As I explained in my book Acts Of Our Apostles, one of the major reasons most African nations are poor is the rate at which our churches mop up money from circulation. The already poor people are dispossessed of their meagre incomes to the tune of billions of dollars every year, not to be invested in any beneficial project for them, but to provide luxury and thin god status for the pastors. Offer 7, Offer 1,2,3 to 31 are all avenues for filthy lucre. Any endeavour that has no benefits to mankind is futile.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=355387424640529&id=265251816987424

3 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 12:57pm On Nov 25, 2014

Gombs:
How am i supposed to have a thought about it when you haven't been to any?

I take it then that you're unable to answer.
We'll move on to some other things for now.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 11:18am On Nov 25, 2014

Gombs:
But you haven't asked BBG na!

I'm saying that I'm eager to have your thoughts on those questions.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 10:13am On Nov 25, 2014

Gombs:
Ask him whether he's writing from experience or just being cynical.

I would sincerely like to know your answers to those questions.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 9:00am On Nov 25, 2014

Gombs:
What questions?

For starters, BabaGnoni's questions:

"Why are "healing" schools FULL of genuinely and undisputedly crippled wheelchair-ridden people who NEVER GET HEALED?
Why is cerebral palsy sufferer(s) turned away from approaching "healing" pastor(s) on stage at "healing" school(s)?"

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 10:02pm On Nov 24, 2014

Gombs:
Mark of the true gospel preachers.

Do you prefer this to giving straightforward answers to the questions?

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 9:43am On Nov 24, 2014

Gombs, Bidam & company lose steam very easily. When they see that their arguments are being dismantled they resort to derision, false accusation, gibe and the like so as to draw attention away from being faced with the truth of their wrong stand or false position.

Quote a scripture to them that clearly points out the fallacy of their claim or position and the next thing they'll quickly do is quote another, hoping that the new passage will now become the focus of attention. All in a bid to divert attention away from their error.

Because of lack of humility they find it difficult, not only to objectively look at opposing views, but also to actually admit they are wrong even when on the inside of them they know are wrong.

Hero worship is another major issue for these guys. If their 'hero' claims a position with regards to any issue, they want to hold on to it at all cost in spite of a superior position being shown them.

Except they become like little children ready to learn their 'salvation' is far.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 10:52pm On Nov 23, 2014

Gombs:
I am not as dishonest as you are. I have always spoken about the Anglican and Catholic Church I attended. Feed your eyes

https://www.nairaland.com/1826244/making-grace-convention-2014/2#25004707

https://www.nairaland.com/1468651/why-pastors-collect-tithes-poor/1#18666173

Now, have yourself a good night.

You should clearly tell how I've been dishonest. You've been on this for a while now.

We'll soon know who's been what. grin

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 10:11pm On Nov 23, 2014

Gombs:
Born anglican, was outta church for 3 years, joined Catholic, did it few months...then I found rest. I said this not once here na,,, anglican, Catholic and then embassy. You can find the thread na.

Wind go soon blow and fowl yansh go ......

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 9:36pm On Nov 23, 2014

Gombs:
You've always thought Abraham was an Isrealite na

Is my billions likes paining you? cheesy

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 8:50pm On Nov 23, 2014

Gombs and co are 'tied' to the old covenant because they must necessarily use it to justify MANY of their stand and practices today.

Romans 4 states this about Abraham:
"10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised.
11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well,
12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

This portion makes it clear that all who believe without being circumcised, have righteousness counted to them as well.

Circumcision was for all successive generations of Israel and Israel ALONE. It was a sign in the flesh to mean they identified with the covenant God made.

Because they can't distinguish between what is for the NATION Israel and what is for the New Covenant they (Gombs and Co) lump things up. They therefore do all they can to twist scripture to line up with their preconceived ideas.

PS
They even twist people's posts and run away from questions that clearly show their positions as faulty or false.

3 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 6:25pm On Nov 23, 2014

Gombs:
Mba weldone... I did not just want to give vooks these, for if he could not answer whether God revoked His covenant sealed with circumcision, after he's said all pre mosaic principles were anulled.

It's a sure sign, that these folks hardly know scripture, no wonder he keeps saying 'I feel' 'I think' etc. I did not want to give him the Animal Sacrifice part, but you already did. Guess what he now said? He asked what the blessing of circumcision is? Yet, he claims Abraham’s blessings are his.

I try to ignore him, I guess I'd put in more effort.

You too have conveniently refuse to address the issues I raised with you here; or are you waiting for help?:

trustman:
So you have chosen on your own to use the tithing example that was before the Mosaic law to be your standard for your doing it today. [ Please give yourself a pat on the back for this ingenuity ].

You can be sincerely mistaken. Unless you do things God's way you wouldn't get his approval. You may think you are doing it from a pure heart but as long as it is not in line with God's way it will still get his disapproval.

When you use a verse that has no jurisdiction over tithing to defend it what right motive or a pure heart is in that?

Remember Uzzah? Did he have the right motive and a pure heart? What was the result?

God honors his word not sincere motive or anything else.

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