₦airaland Forum

Demdem: Whats destructive in criticising a self-confessed thief Do u guys have brains at all?

I've always told you that those without brains are always the first to accuse others of being without brains. Do you get high by proving me right?

Sorry I took kinda long but I had to wait till it was convenient to read and digest your post and I tell you, I'm mighty impressed with your account but I'm not swayed. There are just too many assumptions that cannot hold water, you seemed to have filled in the blanks with mere assumptions.
Firstly, you assumed God drew a demarcation between Cain and Abel, I find no basis for that assumption. At birth, they were individuals with same standing in the sight of God but Abel won Gods favour with his sincerity and love of God while Cain erred and lost it - nothing more.
Secondly, you assumed Abel was out to make amends for the sin of his Father through his offering - No way, Abel did what was right just like his elder brother Cain did, the only difference between his and Cains was his sincerity and Love for his creator. If this was about showing remorse then Cain wouldav been doing same.
Thirdly, you assumed Eve's statement at the birth of Seth which means "Granted" for God had replaced the Son (seed) whom Cain took" meant something more - I don't think so and you can't prove it. Those were just the words of a woman who was thankful she had two sons like She used to.
Fourthly, if these very select few were the "sons of God" like you claim, I'm talking of people like Abel, Seth, Abraham, Enoch, Noah how come these "peculiar Characteristics skipped some generations? Between Seth and Noah we had about 10 generations can you explain that?
Your argument clearly shows "men of Peculiar characteristics" were few and far between like just one in a generation or numerous generations, how come all of a sudden God became worried that his "Sons" would pervert his lineage? Can you explain the sudden explosion in the number of the sons of God?
Also according to your theory, this lineage of the sons of God continued through Noah so where did it end? Christ? Does that mean a particular breed didn't require Christ to die for them as they were already Sons of God? I don't get it.
Finally, I'm sorry but you still need to prove you really understand the implication of Adam disobeying God in Eden. You need to prove you understand that God watched over Adam in Eden becaused he loved him despite his sin that had made him unworthy of His love. You need to understand that at that point Man lost his right standing with God and could only be justified by Gods favour and later by works which was impossible. You need to prove you understand the significance of the Sin offerings in Leviticus 16. You need to prove you understand the significance of Christs death and ressurection.

Ihedinobi: Could you indicate how?

In the footnote of my Living Bible where the sons of God were described as fallen Angels, it noted that some commentators believe the Sons of God referred to the descendants of the godly line of Seth while the Daughters of men to the men of the line of Cain. I see you belong to that school of thought.
But it looks highly improbable except you can prove the Adamic line wasn't corrupted by his sin in the garden of Eden.

Ok now I'm beginning to get your argument, but you're still very wrong though.

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Ihedinobi: Why can the phrase "sons of God" there not mean human beings? Do Romans 8 and John 1 speak of angels too? And where does it say that the Nephilim were products of those marriages?

Reading this my Brother, I have absolutely no choice than to question your grounding in the word. I can't believe you said that, From Kobo I wouldve understood, but you? I'm genuinely shocked!
How could an unredeemed seed of Adam have been referred to as the Son of God? on what grunds? on what legitimacy? the Apples? Do you understand the gravity of Adams sin? Did you understand the implication? If an Adamic seed could be called the Son of God then of what purpose was Christ? I feel like weeping!
And how could you have cited those Bible verses? its so so sad. Do you realize satan was considered a "son of God" before he was defeated by Christ and put in his place?
Job 1vs6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan came also among them.

With Christs resurrection, satan lost out and became condemned and that was why John said in
John 1 vs 12
But as many as received Him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe his name
Are you beginning to realize your folly? How could a man loaded with sin be referred to as his son when he isn't even a spirit being? How could you have assumed the sons of God in the old testament and the sons of God in the new testament are one and the same?
Haveyou not read I John 3vs2
Behold NOW are we the Sons of God
I expect nothing less than an apology from you. And please read up
ROMANS 8 :14, and Phillipians 2vs 5

Good God! My brother, if you have to, you need to take a break from church and read your Bible and use the mind of Christ that you received to think about it and figure out its meanings.

Seriously?

Ihedinobi: This is a real pity, wesley. I took a break because discussing with you suddenly became too tedious and because I had to give my phone a rest and attend to other matters. The pity is some of the really disappointing interpretations you're reading into the Bible and then asking not to be held for proof of their soundness. Do you see the degree of absurdity you're descending into to defend this exceedingly puerile interpretation?

Why can the phrase "sons of God" there not mean human beings? Do Romans 8 and John 1 speak of angels too? And where does it say that the Nephilim were products of those marriages?

Good God! My brother, if you have to, you need to take a break from church and read your Bible and use the mind of Christ that you received to think about it and figure out its meanings.

Glad to have you back. Please can we put sentiments and perceptions aside and discuss our Faith honestl like Brethren with hunger for his word? I'll appreciate it. While you're at it I'll appeal that you're swayed by your own convictions and not a desire to please anyone, not me and certainly not Kobo. Thanks, I'll be back with my response.

Kobojunkie: But the Bible is a book you read your personal delusions into? :-/ Is that what it is?
Notice my questions here are not directed at the Bible, or at God but at your person as in your translation of what is written in that book.

My Person has answered your question based on my understanding of the Bible, take it or leave it.

Wait . . . didn't you post those two verses as evidence for your "Spiritual Husband" theory? If they didn't have sex in spirit then where does it say they did?

That proved they have a nature to desire humans se.xually.

But where do you get this from? Where does it say the "Sons of God" lost their tangibility after the floods?

Everyone perished after the flood duh! They lost their human nature but not their spirit nature. How many "giants" have you noticed since then? I mean except for "Andrew the Giant" lolzzzzzzzzzzzz

After the days of Noah, they were locked in their spirit bodies and hence could only operate in human form through possession? What verse are you referring to here? Cause again, I know of no verse that limits demons to Marriage, gestation of 9 months etc. Even Animals are not limited in such a manner.

A certain Kobojunkie once posted a verse that said we ought to "judge" all things because the Spirit of God enables us - Obviously, She didn't know what She was pasting. The CTRL C - CTRL V menace!
Here's another Bible verse
I Corinthians 2vs 10
"But we know about these things because God has sent His Spirit to tell us, and His Spirit searches out and shows us all of Gods deepest secrets"
Hallelujah somebody. Once God chose the path of redemption of man would be through Christ, it was imperative that satans spirit was locked out from the world - FOR THE THIRD TIME I PRAY, UNDERSTAND THIS.

I am a scifi buff, but even I know to separate what I watch from what exists in this life and world around me.

I have no real respect for science beyond what I need. Science has been perverted by satan to be an excuse for the mysteries of the world which ordinarily would have led men back to their maker. Don't take this personal but I see the fruits of that perversion in your arguments.

There you go trying to reason out God and his ways. The Bible Kobo, isn't a "book" like Shakespeare! You can't read the Bible and understand like you're reading a textbook or novel. Just shut your eyes a sec and say Holy Spirit pls teach me your words and see the difference He'll make. Its obvious what you have is a form of godliness that denies the essence of it. You're still in the realm of questioning everything simply because you expect everything to make perfect sense to you, not so Sister!

Kobojunkie: Again, interesting analysis on your part.

I am reading the living translation and it does not take what is in those verses you have their and then tell you it has to do with SPIRITUAL HUSBANDS. It does not.

a) Living Translation DOES NOT say anything of nephilims operating IN THE SPIRIT when they were with those women then.

I didn't tell you they had se.x in the spirit then did I?

b) Living Translation DOES NOT tell you that AFTER the FLOODS the nephilims lost their tangible structures. I mean why only fallen Angels? Why didn't all Sons of God loose tangibility after "THE FLOOD"?

Oh they did I promise. The only humans that survived were those in the Ark, while the "sons of God" lost their tangibility, they didn't loose their spiritual status.

c) Living Translation DOES NOT tell you that demons all have Children like Humans do (getting married, impregnating a woman, 9 months gestation period etc.)

Now where did you pick that from? In the days of Noah they could do all that but with the destruction of the world, they were locked in their spirit bodies and hence could only operate in human form thru posession. Even if they decide to copulate thru a posessed person, its still the human that fathers the child not the demon PLS GET THIS STRAIGHT.

d) Living Translation DOES NOT tell you that the realm of the spirit has to be marked by time for their to be a past practice and a present practice. . .Let it be in Heaven as it is on Earth . . . It may not be in the human sense of time but there is some semblance of a past and a present.

But of course!

I love watching supernatural movies, reading the books and all, and honestly, all you have above sounds to me like something you got from watching shows like SuperNatural, movies like Prophecy etc. I mean these are my favourite shows . . . . but even I don't believe they are meant to be taken literally.

Have you seen "Contact"? its a Jodie Foster classic I'm sure you'll love it.

^^ lol I believe that's what they call "Poetic Justice"

Chubhie: I respect Gbawe's energy,passion and doggedness and he has a sound mind but where i seem to have a lil problem with some of his write up is that he vilifies anything PDP and uses another hand to paint ACN as the knight in shining armor....For some neutrals as me, who sees most politicians as same regardless of party affiliations am bound to have problems with some of his arguments.

At the end of the day, most arguments is based between us-PDP and them-ACN so tis a lil difficult for independent minds to have a say without being branded a card carrying member of ACN or the notorious lappy killer squad.

My broda na so o! Its really difficult for independent minded people like US to have a say without folks politicizing our every comment. See how that other fellow Oyb who by the way is a well known victim of the ACN brainwash just tagged everybody "Okupe's fellow rable rousers"! awwwww so so unfair.

^ Pls Kobo don't be daft, fault me on legitimate grounds not on some silly technicality.

Kobojunkie: Interesting translation you have going on there. Your claim seem to be based around verses 2 and 4, and none after those two. So, because the verse there says "sons of God" you translate that to mean

Its not "my" translation. Its the "Living Bible Trnslation". There are other Bibles I'm sure you can compare them.
A footnote in same Bible explains the term "Sons of God" as below;
"used here in the sense of his created, supernatural beings, but no longer godly in character."
They are called "fallen angels" and I knew that from Sunday school!

Gen 6 vs 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair; and they took for themselves wives of all whom they chose.

a) They had not be spirits with no physical form

b) Their(Sons of God) taking wives had to be only in the dreams of these women

Lots of things changed after the flood Kobo, satan lost the ability to operate as a human but retained his ability to operate as a spirit hence he can still posess humans by taking control of the spirit - this is my understanding so pls don't ask for a Bible reference.

[size=13pt] Gen 6 vs 4 There were giants on the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
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c) And probably the pregnancies with these women had to be imagined because given the rampant use of this phrase "spiritual husband", we can count on one finger how many 'giants' have been born so far?

Like I said, satan lost his human capacity, a demon that desires a child would have to posess a human being and impregnate a woman through him. If satan had the ability to get humans pregnant, he would have made rubbish of the Immaculate Conception - Never forget this.

e) Somehow in Nigeria, these Nephilims/Sons of God still exist. These sons of men are somehow still taking wives in Nigeria still as spirits even after more than 5000 years, but somehow have become impotent(No giants/mighty men recorded in Nigeria still).

The realm of the spirit is not marked by time - at least not in the way we know it.

Really interesting analysis!

I'll take that as a compliment, thanks.

For a sec there I thought I was reading an analysis of the Gbawe-Tinubu relationship! Oops did I just say that?

debrief08: GENESIS 6
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

This quoting one verse out of context only works for gullible Christians, we have bibles and are not shy to read it

Lol I thought those two verses are pretty clear, no? How did "sons of God" suddenly see daughters of men? weren't they living with them?
Verse 4 says when the "Sons" of God came unto the daughters of "men" they also bore Giants. Isn't that supposed to read sons of men on daughters of men? Why sons of God and why did they give birth to giants?
Its one thing to have a Bible, Read it but its something else entirely to UNDERSTAND what it says. In any case, here's the Living Bible Translation of that portion:

GENESIS 6 vs 1-2
"Now a population explosion took place upon the earth. It was at this time that beings from the spirit world looked upon the beautiful earth women and took and they desired to be their wives.
Verse 3:
"Then Jehovah said, "My Spirit must not forever be disgraced in man, wholly evil as he is. I will give him 120 years to mend his ways".
Verse 4:
"In those days and even afterwards, when the evil beings from the spirit world were se.xually involved with human women, their Children became giants, of whom so many legends are told"

There is your biblical "spiritual husband". SO YOU LOT WERE SAYING?

Kobojunkie: c) @Kobojunkie also said the concept of "Spiritual Husbands" if foreign to the Bible. It's been how many pages now, if you believe we are wrong, how come you have yet to produce a single verse in the Bible that sanctions such a belief?

Just for the records and for the benefit of others who would be interested, not like I intend to sway Kobo read
Genesis 6:4

^ Sawawa Reports is ALWAYS Rubbish!

^ Yeah right! Its a forum my scraggy bum, like you just noticed.
You could study Romans Chapters 5 and 6 with an open mind, don't let your mind limit your understanding. ok?
The regenerated man isn't under any Law, there's no such thing as Sin to a Christian. but as Paul said, do we continue in sin that Grace may abound? God forbid.

Kobojunkie: Interesting . . . more theories. . . . so where are you told this, in the Bible? Please provide us with some verses(not out of context mind you) where you get this from?

Hehehee now its "us"? interesting

My Forte isn't in doing "lost causes" but I'll continue for what its worth. Now hear me;
The misdeeds, sin, errors of a Christian has got nothing to do with the devil - it should not. A Christians misdeed is only taken advantage of by the devil through his constant accusations that disposes you to acting less in faith. Your Sin as a Christian is between you and your Father, a SAVED man is a SAVED man till he decides to let go his salvation. Now clobber me if its too big for your mind to digest.

Oh I see, so you do not believe demons can have sexual relationships with women and men in their dreams?

Ihedinobi: @Wesley

Kobojunkie, Mr Anony and myself have kept doing one thing: inundating you with Scripture about this. I think that you have Christ within you but I think that He has been severely restricted by the traditions and teachings that you have subscribed to without testing them against the Scriptures. That is a terrible pity, my brother.

Why do you judge as a mere man? What does it matter if a vast multitude thinks nothing of God's seal of acceptance? Does the King of Creation rule by public opinion? He does not run a democracy Who is Himself Wisdom. He will give everyone, every last human being an opportunity to take His Seal of acceptance into His House and make Him responsible for perfecting them for His purposes, but if they belittle His Offer, they will not be known by Him. There is only one mark of identification on them that belong to Christ and it is the Spirit of God. Without Him, there is nothing that sets one apart unto Christ.

I may as well tell you, my brother, that it is the Holy Spirit of God Who is Himself the Nature of Christ that you spoke of.

This is beginning to sound ridiculous. Its now me vs them? Like since when? What are my views that you find unbiblical? Where are the so called scriptures you've "inundated" me with? Are you even reading my posts? Please read my reply to Anons ridiculous accusations all over again. What is this really about? That I chose not to "judge"? Judge who, a fornicator? Does Fornication sound like a compliment? Absolutely not! I have chosen not to dwell on the man's sin but nudge him towards the brighter light while you have chosen to do the opposite and I'm the Villain because KOBOJUNKIE said so? What on earth is wrong with you? Cant you take a stand on your own and judge me based on the discussion we've had? Is that also the same discussion I'm having with Kobo? Is it same I'm having with Anon? So why have you lumped it all together to suit your ridiculous purpose?
Kobo thinks the lady in question has a "psychological" problem cos there's no such thing as a Spiritual husband, do u agree with her?
Anon thinks there are no Spiritual husbands cos its not written in the Bible do u agree with Him?
Take a stand Mr and stop searching for company to give u legitimacy. What nerve arghhhhhhhhh!

Ihedinobi: I think by a simple answer, you mean fewer words. Ok then. A man is saved when he receives the Spirit of God.

But Romans 10:9 says " if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth onto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Does a confession as above equal receiving the Holy Spirit? Can you reconcile this with Romans 8:9? I'm curious.

I'd appreciate some Scriptures to substantiate what you have said here. As for my proof, please refer again to the Scriptures I gave.

Luke 11 vs 13 if ye then being evil know how to give good gifts unto your Children, how much more shall your Heavenly Father givethe Holy Spirit to them that ASK HIM?
Emphasis on ASK. Sorry I didn't get the Scripture that shows receiving Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit are one and same.

Could you show me this from the Bible? Also explain to me what the nature of Christ is.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptised ( is this water baptism or Holy Spirit?) shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned.
By the nature of Christ I meant his sinless nature that makes us worthy of reconciliation with the Father.

Again, "he that hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His."

I believe there are different Revelations of Christ among different groups of Christians. What unites is the knowledge of Christ and his Spirit that dwells in us. Some run with it while some stay docile (downplay) its role but we all still remain Christians.

^ Its your lucky thread Kobo, have a ball.

^ Its easy to do a word search of "judge" and come out with all sort of stuff you actually do not understand the significance or context of use. In any case, I can only recognize your adoption of Sophistry to obfuscate the truth, I have no grouse with folks "knowing" the difference between right and wrong of course we ought to, I have no grouse with Christians pointing out what is expected of fellow Christians but I have a grouse with Christians defining who a Christian is based on their own standards and narrow definitions, I have a grouse with Christians trying to tell other Christians they are powerless and subject to the devil because of some sin they committed - No way!
How perfect are you? how many times have you done what you believe was wrong? How many of those times did you temporarily become a non Christian because you sinned? Perhaps it wasn't as sinful as Fornication therefore your Christian status wasn't affected was it?

Kobojunkie: Don't try to wiggle out of it now. I simply explained why I disagreed with your statement that it is enough to know of Christ. Gave Bible verse on why I disagreed, and you came in calling me a hypocrite for that. The lady who the @Poster claims is also "spiritual" did not make the statement about perfection . . you did. And my response is I did not judge you or anything. I simply quoted the Bible. . . simple!

Listen and please get me straight, I DO WRONG SOMETIMES. Sometimes even in my online banter, I have to pray for forgiveness cos I know I've said wrong and hurtful things so who am I to point fingers at someone else's wrong because its tagged "fornication"? Who am I to question the Christianity of anybody because he fornicates? Who are you to do so? If that isn't hypocrisy then what is? I've learnt not to judge people and God has humbled me more than once, I used to pride myself in my "right living" but I've seen the power of God made manifest in folks I thought were living "wrongly" and I've learnt my lesson. God will be the only judge of his Children don't you ever forget that.

Ihedinobi: My dealings with wesley80 are such that the issue of spirit spouses are linked to his acceptance that Christians are still slaves to sin and therefore should be excused in their sin. Do you see how damaging that is? I recognize him as a brother. But he is holding something that has made the Death of Jesus of none effect. I was harsh at first because the thing obscured his identity as a child of the Family. I toned it down when I saw signs that he indeed is one of us. I am reacting according to the wrestle going on with the Spirit here. You do realize that for the Christian, there's a spiritual backstory to everything, don't you?

This here is just a plain sad and a most unfortunate comment, never in my life have I ever been this misrepresented and I find it really really sad.
I do not believe in the Gospel of condemnation, I do not believe in the Gospel of preaching Sin, its a paradox we can do without. A Christian that has chosen to fornicate isn't doing so because he's ignorant of what the Bible says concerning fornication. So what's the Gospel to a fornicating Brethren? Is it you'll go to hell, demonic torments awaits you, rebuke - open or closed? I do not subscribe to either of those, the "Gospel" to a fornicating Brethren is 'Theres a better life"!
Fear of damnation and condemnation can take you to Christ but the only thing that'll keep you with Christ is the Love of God and its that Love that I seek to spread to all men be it a sinner or whatever. I do not regard anyone's sin as a Factor and I do not care to know what you do or have been doing because I've got a better place to take you. That is the Gospel I've embraced and I believe in, if you do not agree with me that's fine but Please Please Please do not misrepresent me, it isn't honourable in any way.

Kobojunkie: where did I use the word "PERFECTED"? Realize this, I am not the one Judging you, I only judged what you said against what the bible says. The very Bible does much of the judging here -- all I have done is present what is in the Bible. And don't you think it is funny that you, who thinks "Spiritually" feels judged?

Now I'm beginning to wonder how I got entangled in all of this! So much misconceptions I honestly don't know where to start. I actually wasn't referring to myself but the lady in question whom you repeatdly made reference to her "sin" of fornication. I'll leave it at that.

Ihedinobi: What we can see with our eyes are confessions of repentance, water baptism and perhaps falling on the ground and speaking incomprehensible things ("evidence" of what we call baptism of the Holy Spirit). None of these in themselves mean anything. Repentance is a heart thing. Water baptism is supposed to be physical expression of the heart thing. Baptism of the Holy Spirit may be accompanied with signs or it may not. But they tend to occur at once. God witnesses to the thing of the heart from heaven with the Gift of the Holy Spirit and we witness to it here on earth with the baptism of water that confirms that the person has accepted the Word of Salvation which was preached to them. I earnestly hope my explanation is clear.

No sir, I asked a simple question and a simple answer will do. When does a man become saved? at baptism, repentance or on receiving the Holy Ghost?

When they have believed on the Lord Jesus, God's witness to their faith is the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

No way. We can put this down as somewhere we disagree and maybe you can prove this. Believing in Christ does not grant you the Holy Spirit, its quite normal to ask Christians if they've received the Holy Ghost since they became Born again. You can receive the Holy Spirit by asking for it or through laying of hands, it doesn't come in same package as being born again.

The significance of repentance is that it indicates the repentant person's acceptance of their need for something more than themselves to answer God's Righteous Demands upon them.

No Sir, The significance of repentance, being born again, accepting Christ is that your name gets written in the Book of life. In that one instant, you take up the spotless nature of Christ. Receiving the Holy Spirit is something else entirely and is the next significant step in your journey in Christ and its a thing of choice which unfortunately, most have not been taught.

Any man or person or organization that does not recognize the place of the Holy Spirit is no child of God's.

Now that would be sad won't it?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]A person recieves the Holy Spirit at the point of conversion i.e. being born-again. The Spirit of God immediately lives within you. Now if that is true, what then is baptism of the Holy Spirit? This is what I understand it to be: a special empowerment usually accompanied by an experience and it is given so that we can proclaim the gospel of Christ.
Sometimes I have asked the question why get baptized in the Holy Ghost if He already lives within me? I haven't found a very logical answer to that yet (perhaps, God will reveal it to me someday) but I know the experience I had when I was baptized in the Holy Ghost and I cannot deny His Power.[/quote]I'm sorry but if you cannot tell the difference
between both then your entire argument has bbeen punctured. You mean you're trying to reason it out logically! like seriously?

Perhaps you should read down to verse 6 of 1John 2. The answer you seek is clearly stated.

Dude I did but the answer I seek isn't there. If you're supposed to "always" walk in him because we abide in him why was provision made for those that sin in verse 1 of same chapter?

A right means it is something you have earned. Please tell us what you would need to have done to earn the Holy Spirit.

No sir, my definition of a "right" is something you're ENTITLED to! Every Christian is entitled to having the Holy Ghost.

Ihedinobi: ^ C'mon, bro, that's not nice na I'm surfing with my phone so I can't read everything on the thread at a glance. I just finally read your posts and I appreciate the validity of your questions. And I assure you, I rarely retort. I'm actually starting to enjoy talking with you. There's no need to think I'm fighting with you. I'm not. Once I read how you got saved, I was satisfied that I could be free with you. Don't be so mad at me, please. I'm not your enemy.

Fair enough.

Sir, they were not Christians. Without the Holy Spirit living in a man, such a man does not belong to Christ or else, Romans 8:9 is a lie. What is more, the following verses showed that they had not heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Upon hearing it, they believed in Jesus and were baptized. They also received the earnest or guarantee of salvation which is the Holy Spirit Himself as a result of that faith they expressed in baptism. Thus they became members of the Family of God.

Sorry Sir but I do not agree with you. I have a few questions if you don't mind.
At what point does a man become "SAVED"? At repentance, baptism or when he receives the baptism of the Holy Ghost?
Is there a difference between being saved and being a Christian?
How does one receive the Holy Ghost?
Can a person receive the Holy Ghost without repentance? If no, what then is the significance of repentance?
How will you classify Jehovah's witnesses and other "Christians" that play down(?) the working of the Holy Spirit?
These should help allign our views I think.