₦airaland Forum

Thank God someone feels same way, I can't recall it ever getting this cold, I mean I cannot walk around the house any longer without some slippers on, I'm beginning to wish I stuck with good ol' rug! It hasn't "really" rained here in about a month but the cold weather still persists.

Ihedinobi: Now, bro, you done gone and said "basically agree with" again. Do you really? Because that's where you and I are stuck. You "basically agreed with" the definition I submitted for the Christian and since then we've been wrestling over your rejection of it.

Anyway, I'm going to read the two long essays you posted for me sha

You could easily have squeezed in an answer to one of my questions in the time you used to compose this needless retort, no?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]@wesley80, I agree that a baby must first crawl before he walks and eventually runs but this doesn't mean that the baby becomes more human by learning to walk and run. The baby was human from the moment he was born even when he was crawling.
What I am saying is simple. The Spirit of God in you is what makes you a Christian. When you are born again, you are born of God i.e. born into God's family. It is not something you work towards attaining, you just are.[/quote]First, let me thank you for putting your view across very succinctly, I very much agree with the generality of your views. However, lets get some specific details ironed out.
Your comment on the second paragraph above which I basically agree with begs the question; At what point does one receive the Spirit of God? Is at repentance, baptism or when you receive the Holy Spirit?
Secondly, how does one receive the Holy Spirit?

Christianity is not some philosophy to adhere to, It is state of being. You are either God's son or you are not.

Now when a baby instead of walking on two feet and learning to talk and reason, the baby walks on all fours, eats grass, bleats like a goat and even begins to grow horns, hoofs and a tail. Then the baby is not human because it is not showing the characteristics of a human being.

It is not in the nature of sons of God to commit sin....that is the nature of the devil.

Couldn't have put it better myself but here lies the problem. In adopting a strict definition of who qualifies to be called a Child of God where do we classify those John referred to in 1John 2:1? What do we call those that still struggle with Sin? Pre-Christians?

One more thing: The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not a level of Christianity to be attained, it is a gift we receive and it's main characteristic is boldness in sharing the gospel.

It is the Holy Spirit that convicts us of sin, It is the same Holy Spirit that equips us to do God's work. It is yielding to the leading of the Holy Spirit that defines us as children of God.

The question now arises: If we continually commit sin, what spirit are we yielding to?

There's a part I totally disagree with you here and its boldened, the Holy Spirit isn't a "Gift", its your right in Christ - I'm hoping you erroneously used the wrong term. What qualifies to be called a gift would be Prophetic utterances, Miracles and a few others.

^ I wait to be wowed by you.

The second kind of Christians are those that recognize the place of the Holy Spirit as spoken by Christ in Acts 1:8. That other set of Christians recognize it is next to impossible to to live the Christian life without the embodiment of the Holy Spirit and they've received Him, now how well they allow the expression of the Holy Spirit in them depends on a number of things which is out of our scope here.
This is as clearly as I think I can express what I believe about Christians.

Now here's what I believe about Christians and I hope you two finally get me.
There are TWO KINDS of Christians but nevertheless, both are Christians. There's the one that knows Christ, believes in him and has earned the right to be called a christian. In Acts 19:2 Paul met a number of "disciples" whom he specifically asked if they'd received the Holy Spirit since they were baptized to which they replied in the negative, Paul laid hands on them and they received Christ.
Question: What were these disciples before they received the Holy Spirit?
Christ asked his disciples to remain in Jerusalem until the Holy Ghost falls on them.
Question: What were they before they received the Holy Spirit?
Some believers like Jehovah's witnesses( I stand corrected) etc do not preach receiving the Holy Spirit but rather focus on baptism, repentance and right living.
Question: Have these set of believers lost the right to be called Christians?

@Ihedinobi
It is sheer arrogance when you enter a discussion pointing out what you will and won't entertain and then follow it up with statements like " I toned down the confrontationality to give you the benefit of doubt, don't make me regret it". That my friend is arrogance.
I am being myself but cannot be the ultra-confrontational Wesley that battles negativity and ignorance in the Politics section, I do not see the need to be so in a thread like this.

@Kobojunkie, could you quit the hypocrisy? I'm yet to meet a Christian that has perfected his Faith walk - I know I haven't and in any case, God hasn't made you a judge or are you the "accuser of the brethren". A persons wrong might be fornication what's yours? none? The definition of who is and isn't a Christian goes well beyond your definition of right and wrong.

Ihedinobi: You cannot say the bolded and yet agree with the definition of the Christian that I submitted.

There may be lots of things you don't understand. Do you know what it means to be a spirit-filled-tongue-talking Christian who recognizes he's higher than Angels in Spiritual hierarchy and is living under grace through Faith and not subject in any way to the accusations of the devil? Can you tell the difference between that and a Spirit-filled-Christian who's endlessly trying not to "sin" in his Christian life so as to stand right in Gods presence?

Ihedinobi: Did you notice that I toned down the confrontationality? I gave you benefit of the doubt. Please don't make me regret doing so. I have answered that question with my last comment. If a Christian is one who has the Holy Spirit of God living in them, it doesn't matter with what water they're baptized and what they're taught and how faithfully they abide by the teaching (which is impossible without the Spirit of Christ anyway), they are not and will never be Christians and will never see the insides of Heaven. Have I answered you now?

I did notice, but I also think you'd do well to rid yourself of the arrogance and needless threats, I see no reason for it, if you do a sample of my posts you'll recognize I'm on my "best behavior"!
I believe you're wrong. Salvation comes when we "confess with our mouths and believe in our Hearts that Jesus is Lord" that's what makes us Christians. The Holy Spirit is something else entirely it is the next level in our Christian walk, get that straight.

Kobojunkie: I disagree with this.

Didn't expect any less from you lol. But I'll cite myself as an example. I was raised in a somewhat Catholic home - somewhat because we knew we were Catholics but no one really took it seriously, that's except during Harvests sha - But when we moved down South, I was enrolled into the late Archbishop Benson Idahosa's School, knowing Christ was inevitable. It was like a pentecostal seminary with Religion being the Core part of the education we received, there I branched out on my own into his Church of God mission where I encountered the Holy Spirit but I knew something was lacking. I just couldn't put my finger on it until I got into Uni and someone stopped me on the way and said God said I should invite you to my meeting!
My point? I was no less a Christian then in Secondary school but I always cite that cool evening at the university garden as the day I met Christ. That day I started a journey of discovery of who the Christian is and I had a fullness.

Ihedinobi: I'm in agreement with Kobojunkie on this. The definition is: one who has the Spirit of Christ. If you agree with it, it means that there is no such thing as a Christian who does not have the Spirit of God. Regardless whether their church preaches it or not. Do you agree?

You didn't answer my question. What is the lady that confessed Christ and got baptized and is taught to live right and make heaven?

Kobojunkie: It does not matter how many realities or versions to Christianity are created by people, as long as it is not Biblical, it should not be sold as the same. I didn't need to ask you what denomination you attend, or if you speak in spirit or not. I simply needed to check what you said against what the Bible says. . . and since it is not Biblical, it is not of the Bible and something else. . . . maybe of the book of the damned or some other book out there.

And this is a problem I have, again, with African Christians. Quick to believe any salad of beliefs thrown at them without first ensuring each component even works when put against what the Bible says. That, I believe, is reason why in a Nation that claims to be the most religious on the planet, the most vile of sins can also be found. In fact, looking around, it is clear that those who truly live the Christian story are seriously in the minority, almost invisible even.

The most important thing is getting folks to know Christ. The quality of the Christian life can always be worked on, that's what makes the Gospel free but not cheap. That's what makes financing the Gospel a duty that must be undertaken, the Word must be let out in its purest form.

@Ihedinobi, Basically, I agree with your definition of a Christian - that's what my Church also preaches, that said, where will you classify a lady that's receives Christ, gets baptized, chooses to live right but doesn't receive the Holy Spiri through no fault of hers lets say her Church doesn't preach it? You think She's no longer a Christian?

Ihedinobi: I think that you want to tell me. You might as well proceed. And while you're at it, I wouldn't mind if you showed that it doesn't conflict with all the other passages I gave.

The point I was trying to make is you don't make quotes out of context. In making references, you've got to understand who it was being said to and why it was said. Now the verse I quoted says;
My little Children these things I write unto you that ye sin not, And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And he is the PROPITATION for our sins ...
John started out with my "little Children" ie Spiritually immature and babes in Christ those folks that are "expected" to still be struggling with right and wrong ie sin, and then he progresses to the verse you quoted where he becomes sterner spelling out what is expected of a mature Christian. I can point out similar arguments in any scripture you quote.
It is called the "Remission of sin" and is different from "Repentance" which is one off when we confess Christ. Best I stop here.

Kobojunkie: Now where in the Bible is all the stuff you are spewing again . . that's been the question. Where does it say Christians can be possessed? Where does it say that it is possible to have the holy spirit in your and still be possessed by a demon? Where . . that again has been the question. Where in the Bible are you told that people who are filled with the Spirit of God(since I am again guessing that is what being 'spiritual' means) and be possessed by demons at the same time?

P.S It does not take a rocket scientist to know what is in the Bible. The book comes in various English versions and many people who don't even believe in God read and at least have an idea when they meet People who don't have a clue what the book says.

@bolded, Point taken, forgive me for getting carried away.
I agree with your argument that a Christian in the true sense CANNOT be possessed of the devil, I alluded to that in my first on second post on this page when I said my church doesn't believe in delivrance sessions and battling demons - there's a higher life which we are thought to live in. But what's the reality today? there are various denominations with various beliefs and dispositions but no less, they are also Christians. How many churches lay emphasis on receiving the Holy Spirit and working with it? How many teach speaking in the Spirit? Even with those that believe, some still stray and at some point they might let in the devil into their lives and someone has got to tell something they've become powerless to control to GO! That's my argument, having the tag of a Christian does not render anyone immune from the devices of the wicked and some do fall. That's how I think the lady with the issue should be viewed.

Ihedinobi: The Bible says so in 1 John 3:6-9, in Romans 8:1-14, in Gal 5:24 and practically all over the Bible. Need I mention "For Thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with Thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: Thou hatest all workers of iniquity" of Psalm 5:4-5?

Suffice to say, it is sheer arrogance and unspeakable pride for anyone to assume that God is at home with their sin. What nonsense!

Would you mind telling me what John meant in 1 John 2:1-2. Would appreciate it.

Kobojunkie: I believe in Acts 2 vs 3 or is it 30-something, Peter talks of how one has to repent, be baptized and then receive the holy spirit . . . note it does not come BEFORE the SIN but After the repentance. Or is the belief down there that everyone has the spirit of God in them?

Intriguing stuff, wouldav sworn you were some kind of agnostic or something,guess I was wrong. Anyway, the portion you were referring to is in verse 38 but I don't think you quite get the argument here. A christian can still sin and sometimes, "Christians" become posessed for various reasons. Now the question is what happens to a Christian that's under spiritual bondage? or is your argument that its impossible for every Christian to be possesed of the devil? In the scripture above, Peter was preaching to first time converts which is quite different from a Christian experiencing spiritual bondage.

Anonymous security sources said that the attackers bomber the gate of the prison after which they exchanged gunfire with prison guards on duty. We could not ascertain the number of escaped inmates or casualty at the facility as SaharaReporters calls to the police commissioner in the state were not answered

@bolded. It seems even Sahara Reports have caught the "grammar bug" LMAO!

Kobojunkie: c) Since the @Poster claims to be spiritual, but sinning . . . wouldn't it be logical to tell him straight up that he is sinning and the spirit of God does not live in the heart of those who are sinning, which is what the Bible says?

Where in the Bible did God say so?

Ihedinobi: Take my advice and don't get on my case. I'm not ready for a conversation. When I've read through the thread, I'll address whomever I need to address specifically. I just gave my general feeling on an open forum. If you personalize it, that will really be your problem. So, once again, stay off my case, at least for now. I'm not fun to deal with when I'm annoyed.

Ohhhhhh, I'm shivering already.

^ Not sure who your rant is directed at.

Kobojunkie: Oh great, because I am not throwing around words like "Spiritual", and asking that more Christians apply critical thinking when they listen to even the many prophets in Nigeria, I have never seen a Bible before??

https://png-2.findicons.com/files//icons/1039/manto/128/laugh.png

I stand corrected.

debrief08: Oga Sir, I asked for Bible references oh

Don't have the time to school you, sorry. U should never have skipped Sunday school. Remember that old Jehovah's witness children's book - My book of Bible stories? Even that will answer your question, there's a well illustrated page on it that answers your question.

debrief08: In the Bible you have seen show us where Spiritual husbands are stated.
Nigerians will watch por-n, Mastur-bate and hide reprerss their sexual urges, when they have dreams driven by natural feelings it becomes spiritual husband and wives.
How come Spirit Husbands and wives only happens to Nigerians and african countries we have invaded with our fake pastors

"incubus and sucubus" are not African coinages duh!

Frankly, you don't sound like you've seen a Bible before.

Man is a Spirit being trapped in a mortal body and the body dominates the Spirit until after death. Unfortunately, not many realize the Spiritual nature of man hence the domination suffered by some. Most people including some Christians live ordinary mundane lives that deny the essence of what they ought to be. Ignorance is the devils number one weapon hence the domination most so called Xtians suffer.
My church teaches the supremacy of the Christian over any demon and less emphasis is laid on the devil and its devices hence stuff like posessed people and deliverance sessions are almost non existent but that's not to say they don't exist. The Bible says "we are not ignorant of the devices of the devil". Every Christian should be able to cast out demons, its as easy as ABC but some aren't aware of their own abilities therefor someone has got to do the deliverance.

^ Whatever cooks your soup son. I'm not getting into an argument with someone who believes his forebears were apes!

[quote author=edogram.]When does this happen?[/quote]It happens next week, Sir!

[quote author=edogram.]When does this happen?[/quote]It happened next week Sir!

Ok, you guys shouldav called it golden silver, I didn't hear them play our National Anthem or did they?

Who won Gold for Nigeria during the OBJ regime? I know Ajunwa and the Dream team won in 96, so who got Gold in Sydney? Gloria Alozie?

My friend what are you blabbing?