Was Judas Iscariot a bad seed or helped in reconciling God and man through christ death?

He had his chance to repent but he didnt(though it was prophesied that he will kill himself)

bad seed fulfilling negative prophecy. he allowed satan to enter into him as the serpent see the greed door wide open.

Image123: bad seed fulfilling negative prophecy. he allowed satan to enter into him as the serpent see the greed door wide open.

Would satan have entered him knowing the end would nt favour him?

k2039: He had his chance to repent but he didnt(though it was prophesied that he will kill himself)

Then should he be termed a bad seed?

korrej:
Then should he be termed a bad seed?

Matthew 26:24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! [size=18pt]It would be better for him if he had not been born."[/size]

Yes bad seed

korrej:
Would satan have entered him knowing the end would nt favour him?

he satan did not know, he didn't understand that Christ would defeat him on the cross and rise in victory. Jesus spoiled principalities and powers and gave satan a terrible knock out on the head. satan com fall for gutter

[quote author=Image123]bad seed fulfilling negative prophecy. he allowed satan to enter into him as the serpent see the greed door wide open. [/ quote] Exactly!

k2039:

Matthew 26:24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! [size=18pt]It would be better for him if he had not been born."[/size]

Yes bad seed

ok

Image123:
he satan did not know, he didn't understand that Christ would defeat him on the cross and rise in victory. Jesus spoiled principalities and powers and gave satan a terrible knock out on the head. satan com fall for gutter

ok then it means satan didnt know the significance of christ death on time

Judas Iscariot was pre-destined to live,betray Jesus and go to hell..he was just to be used to boost up a well planned 'sacrifice'

mkmyers45: Judas Iscariot was pre-destined to live,betray Jesus and go to hell..he was just to be used to boost up a well planned 'sacrifice'

This is my thought too...

Image123:
he satan did not know, he didn't understand that Christ would defeat him on the cross and rise in victory. Jesus spoiled principalities and powers and gave satan a terrible knock out on the head. satan com fall for gutter

this is plain dumb.if satan didnt know the purpose of jesus in the world,why did he attempt to tempt him three times?was the death of jesus not prophesied by the books as claimed by christianity?did isaiah and david not prophesy of his birth?even herod attempted to kill him at birth and you say satan with alll his disappearing act and absolute power and knowledge didnt know what jesus came to do.

Delafruita:
this is plain dumb.if satan didnt know the purpose of jesus in the world,why did he attempt to tempt him three times?was the death of jesus not prophesied by the books as claimed by christianity?did isaiah and david not prophesy of his birth?even herod attempted to kill him at birth and you say satan with alll his disappearing act and absolute power and knowledge didnt know what jesus came to do.

Thought of this too. So can you pls give your say about the topic

mkmyers45: Judas Iscariot was pre-destined to live,betray Jesus and go to hell..he was just to be used to boost up a well planned 'sacrifice'

God didn't create judas for such assignment. It was prophesied that an insider will be used of Satan to betray him. But God didn't stamp judas name on it. He had a choice. He had greed , he gave room to it. Satan came for him and he fell.

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation. . .

It's be prophesied that some people will end up in lake of fire. But you see God didn't stamp anyone's name there. We have choices . And many are exercising that choice terribly even now on Nairaland..

Joagbaje:

God didn't create judas for such assignment. It was prophesied that an insider will be used of Satan to betray him. But God didn't stamp judas name on it. He had a choice. He had greed , he gave room to it. Satan came for him and he fell.

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation. . .

It's be prophesied that some people will end up in lake of fire. But you see God didn't stamp anyone's name there. We have choices . And many are exercising that choice terribly even now on Nairaland..

Ok does it mean if he had 'watch and pray' it wouldnt have been him to betray christ probably another disciple or someone outside the disciple box?

Joagbaje:

God didn't create judas for such assignment. It was prophesied that an insider will be used of Satan to betray him. But God didn't stamp judas name on it. He had a choice. He had greed , he gave room to it. Satan came for him and he fell.

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation. . .

It's be prophesied that some people will end up in lake of fire. But you see God didn't stamp anyone's name there. We have choices . And many are exercising that choice terribly even now on Nairaland..

Matthew 26: 20 When evening came, Jesus was reclining at the table with the Twelve. 21 And while they were eating, he said, “Truly I tell you, one of you will
betray me.” 22 They were very sad and began to say to him one after the other, “Surely
you don’t mean me, Lord?” 23 Jesus replied, “The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.” 25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, “Surely you don’t
mean me, Rabbi?” Jesus answered, “You have said so.”

mkmyers45: Judas Iscariot was pre-destined to live,betray Jesus and go to hell..he was just to be used to boost up a well planned 'sacrifice'

disgusting idi.ot!

Joagbaje:

God didn't create judas for such assignment. It was prophesied that an insider will be used of Satan to betray him. But God didn't stamp judas name on it. He had a choice. He had greed , he gave room to it. Satan came for him and he fell.

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation. . .

It's be prophesied that some people will end up in lake of fire. But you see God didn't stamp anyone's name there. We have choices . And many are exercising that choice terribly even now on Nairaland..

I have to agree with Joagbaje on this one. Judas 'chose' his destiny

Zikkyy:

I have to agree with Joagbaje on this one. Judas 'chose' his destiny

He didnt choose anything..He was pre-destined to betray jesus,there was also prophecy on what he will do with the money and how he will die..

korrej:
Ok does it mean if he had 'watch and pray' it wouldnt have been him to betray christ probably another disciple or someone outside the disciple box?

Am sure there were plenty of peeps with similar trait at the time. It could have been anybody.

mkmyers45: He didnt choose anything..He was pre-destined to betray jesus,there was also prophecy on what he will do with the money and how he will die..

who told you he was pre-destined? The prophecy was that something will happen. am sure the prophecy did not say that a man named judas will be the one to do the job. It's just that somebody has to do it.

Zikkyy:

who told you he was pre-destined? The prophecy was that something will happen. am sure the prophecy did not say that a man named judas will be the one to do the job. It's just that somebody has to do it.

Two Questions: Does the bible say anything about destiny of a man even before he was conceived? Matthew26:24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.” 25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, “Surely you don’t mean me, Rabbi?” Jesus
answered, “You have said so.” What do you understand by the bolded?

@all. Thank you for your comment in educating the younglad(me of course-the next generation of Religion Forumite in years coming) regarding this topic. Would love more discourse concerning this...

mkmyers45: Two Questions: Does the bible say anything about destiny of a man even before he was conceived?

I understand destiny as being the final outcome or the result of choices. We all make choices that results in a particular outcome and that outcome becomes a destiny. The outcome (destiny) would have been different if a different option was selected. I believe to pre-destine is to decide the choices or action a person will make (in advance) and that will lead to the expected outcome.

To answer your question, i will say that God knowing the outcome of choices we make (even before we consider these choices) is not the same as deciding the selection of these choices/options.

mkmyers45: Matthew26:24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.” 25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, “Surely you don’t mean me, Rabbi?” Jesus
answered, “You have said so.” What do you understand by the bolded?

Jesus knew it was going to be Judas, but did he decide Judas choice? Consider this bible verse as well:

1Co 2:8 None of the rulers of this world understood it, because if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

is it possible for satan and his crew to stop Judas from doing what you believe he was destined to do? If he can, it mean Judas destiny could have been different. Then i don't consider Judas betrayer as being pre-destined.

korrej:
Thought of this too. So can you pls give your say about the topic

judas had no say in the matter.christians believe in predestination and therefore judas was destined to betray jesus.it was prophesied hundreds of years before jesus and judas were even born.every single detail had been arranged.and as you know,yahweh says his honours his words above his name so judas had all the cards stacked against him.even if he attempted to walk a different part,yahweh would still have pushed him back unto the path of betrayal.

judas didnt choose his destiny just as pharaoh didnt choose to harden his heart.the bible says "and the lord hardened pharaoh's heart".yahweh is ultimate and does what he wants in any way he wants it.he chose to despise esau for no reason.he chose to strike uriah dead despite his attempts to keep the ark from falling.

Delafruita:
christians believe in predestination and therefore judas was destined to betray jesus.

Lol! so because 'some' christians believe in predestination, you can conclude that judas was destined to betray Jesus. Lol!

Delafruita:
and as you know,yahweh says his honours his words above his name so judas had all the cards stacked against him.even if he attempted to walk a different part,yahweh would still have pushed him back unto the path of betrayal.

....and God told you that it's Judas or no show. Lol

Delafruita:
just as pharaoh didnt choose to harden his heart.the bible says "and the lord hardened pharaoh's heart".

yes, and the bible did not say it was routine

Delafruita:
yahweh is ultimate and does what he wants in any way he wants it.he chose to despise esau for no reason.he chose to strike uriah dead despite his attempts to keep the ark from falling.

That's why he is God

mkmyers45: He didnt choose anything..He was pre-destined to betray jesus,there was also prophecy on what he will do with the money and how he will die..

It could have fallen on peter or John . Rember Satan came for Peter also.

Luke 22:31-32
And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee. . .

Satan always look for common denominator in a person as an entry point. He entered the serpent in genesis because there was common character trait

Genesis 3:1
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Peter had some instability but he had a honest heart. But. Jesus had to pray for him so that Satan won't have him. Satan could have gotten Jesus also but Jesus had nothing of him.

John 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

But for Judas he heard the teachings of christ but he was not following with a true heart like Peter and others . He was even stealing from Jesus . He had lust for money.

John 12:6
(Judas didn't say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief. He was in charge of the moneybag and carried the contributions.)

^^^^ Mr. Jo, carry go i dey your back for this one

mkmyers45: Matthew26:24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.” 25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, “Surely you don’t mean me, Rabbi?” Jesus
answered, “You have said so.” What do you understand by the bolded?

I don't know how you want to interpret the bolded,you can imagine the type of punishment that awaits judas for this act. is it not better judas was never conceived? it has nothing to do with predestination.

mkmyers45: Two Questions: Does the bible say anything about destiny of a man even before he was conceived? Matthew26:24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.” 25 Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, “Surely you don’t mean me, Rabbi?” Jesus
answered, “You have said so.” What do you understand by the bolded?

Your argument seems to be that Judas was destined to betray Christ whether he liked it or not. If that is so, what relationship do you perceive between that bolded portion of the Scriptural quote and your position?

I think that you mean to use it to say that by dint of the fact of having been born, Judas was on autopilot to betraying Christ. But that wouldn't be true. I say so because the Bible is filled with commands to obey God and do His will and attendant explanations that it is our choice to do so or not. In fact, the existence of consequences presupposes an act of choice. If you choose this, that will result, but if you choose that, the other will result.

For that reason, anybody could have done as Judas did. It was a question of choice. We have Biblical evidence of his love for money. So, it was probably easy for him to gravitate to selling his loyalty for some bucks. He was not made that way though any more than Peter was made full of braggadocio. It is a question of what we choose to define our lives by.

Consider that Judas betrayed Christ and Peter denied Him. Did Peter repent? Of course. Was he forgiven? Of course he was. Did Judas repent? Of course not! Was he condemned? Of course he was. Simples. Both of them chose by themselves a wrong path. Both of them were obligated to also by themselves repent their choice.

Delafruita:

judas had no say in the matter.christians believe in predestination and therefore judas was destined to betray jesus.it was prophesied hundreds of years before jesus and judas were even born.every single detail had been arranged.and as you know,yahweh says his honours his words above his name so judas had all the cards stacked against him.even if he attempted to walk a different part,yahweh would still have pushed him back unto the path of betrayal.

We already had this discussion in another thread, sir. God's omniscience explains predestination. He did not choose or force any option on anybody ever. It is not His Character to do so.

He knows what options any given person will be faced with in the course of their life. And He knows what they will choose. His Work is always to encourage the correct choice but He will not in any sense make the choice for them. Ultimately (except in the sense of His being their Creator), the choice is theirs to make.

Judas by himself made the choice to betray Christ.

Delafruita: judas didnt choose his destiny just as pharaoh didnt choose to harden his heart.the bible says "and the lord hardened pharaoh's heart".yahweh is ultimate and does what he wants in any way he wants it.he chose to despise esau for no reason.he chose to strike uriah dead despite his attempts to keep the ark from falling.

Pharoah. Esau. Uriah Uzzah. Ok. I'll take them on.

There's something that I learned about through Mr Anony. It's called anthropomorphism. I understand it to be the tendency to ascribe human qualities to God or to explain God by human character or nature.

That is obviously wrong especially if we are judging God by fallen man. If we will judge God by man, we must remember that we are inducing, that is, reasoning from a subset to a much larger universal set. That means that we must allow that there is more to God than certain similarities between Him and His creation, man.

Pharoah
So, I say that it is folly to say that God's declaration that He would harden Pharoah's heart necessarily means that He deprived Pharoah his power of choice. Had God been man, by all means, that would be true. But if God is greater than man, then there can reasonably be said to be an explanation for how God can harden a man's heart without going against His Own Character which demands that the man must be free to choose to obey or disobey God.

One possible reason for which the Bible says that God hardened Pharoah could be that He kept troubling the man to make a decision about His people. I observe at this point that to fix a man's natural or reasoned decision concerning something, it sometimes, if not all the time, is necessary to press him for it. As much as Pharoah was hardened against God and His people, he could have been hardened for God and His people. Consider as an example Pilate's refusal to change his inscription for Jesus's Cross despite the pressure he received from the Sanhedrin demanding that he do so.

{Sorry. Have to continue in another post}

@Ihedinobi. Im waiting...