bukatyne: when i meant rules, i don't mean commandments. rules is a wrong choice of words cos u won't understand wat i mean. God has given us commandments like don't steal, lie, kill, commit adultery etc. wat i meant was that there is nothing like eat this, sit this way, don't look like this, don't sleep like this etc. i might prefer kneelin to pray, some may prefer standing, i might like to pray @ night, some might pray in the morning etc i'm sure u get my drift. i'm sorry if i gave u the impression that there are no clear definitions of right and wrong. there are.

LagosShia:

Hilary clinton is making it easier by confessing and you still call that conspiracy?

You think this mockery of islam by the western media isn't planned and acceptable to their governments? Why is questioning the holocaust a crime but defaming others is "free speech"?

AbdulSleek:


What is my business with Hilary Clinton? We were talking about Salman Rushdie. Holocaust laws are not based on blasphemy or religion.


We are talking about Salman Rushdie who wrote a fiction. Are you angry about fiction? If you dont agree with someone on religion, must you kill him?

Where in the Quran is it justifiable to kill an apostate who writes rubbish about islam? Even holocaust deniers are not murdered.


As a Nigerian muslim, I wonder why you are worked up about WW2 massacres that have nothing to do with your religion or country.

LagosShia:

I am pointing out the double standard of laws in the west.if salman rushdie had written a book targeting jews,he would be dealt with for anti-semitism.but when islam is attacked and muslims offended it is "freedom".

I also earlier pointed out that on an individual basis there is no punishment in the Quran for apostacy or blasphemy.the Quran does promote freedom to believe/disbelieve.

“The Truth is from your Lord”: Let him who will, believe, and let him who will,disbelieve".[18:29]

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects Taghut and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things." [2:256]

"Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe again, then disbelieve, and then increase in their disbelief - Allah will never forgive them nor guide them to the path."[4:137].

Based on verse 4:137,if a person is to be killed for apostacy,then how can he believe again after he disbelieves?

often when apostates are punished on a public scale,it takes the theme of treason.

AbdulSleek:



This is what puts me off my own religion. You see, I was in agreement with you on the riba issue even though you are a Shia muslim.

Unfortunately, you dont want to admit that you are wrong. Too many muslims, inlcuding fake clerics fly in the face of common sense to unbelievers giving islam a bad name.

You have no Quranic justification for killing Salman Rushdie. Salman Rushdie is wrong with his book of fiction. Must we kill him for only writing a book? Has he harmed one muslim? The violent reactions were by our fellow muslims not the kaffir or unbelievers.


You have remixed Rushdie's crime to treason. That is wrong. Let us be fair. In attempts to kill and silence Rushdie, bookstores were firebombed, translators murdered and innocent people killed in trying to bomb other translators/editors/publishers. All because of one death sentence that shouldnt have been handed out. When the kaffir say that Islam is a violent religion, you will be complaining but you showed them a failed version of islam that doesnt exist in the Quran.


Salman Rushdie was discussed in the debates at my work place. I learnt a lot. Admit that you are wrong. Do you live in the West? I will let ouknow that it is things like these that turn many of our western brothers away from our religion. Even in my office, some muslims were laughing at our muslim debaters.

LagosShia:

When the non-muslims and their backers stop the premeditated provocations/attacks,I would consider your words.a death sentence by a muslim head of state is totally different from mob action.

AbdulSleek:
When did a muslim head of state become a god? Is his judgement now absolute?

LagosShia:

I'm sorry to say this but you're now sounding like a mad man as both your threads progress or may be digress.why put words into my mouth? An head of state enforces and passes laws over his subjects.I never said he's a "god".

deols: Interesting discourse.

I av nothing to say yet.

AbdulSleek:


Sorry for that. I have been quite harsh on you.


The thing is that the head of state who put a hit on Rushdie's head is wrong. That is my point.

LagosShia:

From a western viewpoint he was wrong.

But from a muslim point,it is not.and why I'm I to believe you're right.

LagosShia:

From a western viewpoint he was wrong.

But from a muslim point,it is not.and why I'm I to believe you're right.

AbdulSleek:



You serious? I actually thought that you were very intelligent. What kind of remixing is this? commandments are rules. Please, I like listening to preaching sometimes but stop this convoluted logic and brainwashing.

bukatyne: i m not brainwashing u. i was only correcting a wrong impression i gave u earlier. i wouldn't blame u if you don't understand, i don't understand some islamic concepts either. as for u thinking if i'm very intelligent or otherwise, it's ur opinion and not the fact. have a splendid day.

LagosShia:

From a western viewpoint he was wrong.

But from a muslim point,it is not.and why I'm I to believe you're right.

andromida:

Enlightening. Is this submission to Allah? Taking lives of anyone who has a contrary opinion to the Quran or killing anyone you perceive has or is blaspheming the prophet and the Quran. Is this any different from terrorism?

andromida:

Enlightening. Is this submission to Allah? Taking lives of anyone who has a contrary opinion to the Quran or killing anyone you perceive has or is blaspheming the prophet and the Quran. Is this any different from terrorism?

LagosShia:

Now we are going into definitions.I never encouraged killing anyone for blasphemy or apostacy because these two on their own have their punishment with God and not man (as there is no verse in the Holy Quran stipulating punishment by man).I said that often times these two are combined with treason which is punishable by an islamic court.the capital punishment for treason is legal in many if not most countries around the world be they muslim or non-muslim countries.

Whether you use suicide bombing or a gun or planes/drones as the US and britain do,terrorism is terrorism.I really don't want to go further because it is futile.but I must say salman rushdie is a terrorist.he used terror against civilians because he knew his scheme would lead to bloodshed of innocent protesters,even the peaceful ones killed by mistake during protests.

AbdulSleek:


Salman Rushdie only wrote a book. The violence came from muslims with an extremist interpretation of the Quran.

LagosShia:

I'm sure you have no right to designate anyone as "extremist muslim".muslims have the right to protest even if they're so angelic they can't harm a fly! You cannot tell me the protesters who died rejecting humiliation and mockery of their beliefs are "extremist muslims".are you better than them who risked their lives to protest in the street because of Islam? No you're not.

Rushdie is not only an extremist but an inhumane beast who knew what he was doing and still did.any responsible person would know what offend others and avoid it.what was rushdie trying to achieve in the end?

AbdulSleek:


Do you call killing publishers and translators "protesting"?


Rushdie is a bit crazy for writing his anti-islamic book but he is not an extremist. An inhumane beast is someone like yourself that is hungry for his head.

LagosShia:

Regardless of what you call me,I'm happy there's an improvement in your position.I'm happy you finally said he is "a bit crazy".you're entitled to your opinion.in my view he is mentally ill while literally he isn't.

AbdulSleek:


Wait, if Salman Rushdie is on your street would you kill him?

LagosShia:

Brother you're welcome!

On the issue of rushdie,anyone who thinks that rushdie sat and wrote a book on his own imagination and power is deluded.rushdie's book was facilitated and rushdie given support and protection by british intelligence.who were the ones protecting rushdie for years under tight security like an head of state? I don't think the british govt. Offer any ordinary writer or citizen what was offered to rushdie.

Also rushdie was born muslim and he didn't only blaspheme or apostacize.he abandoned Islam and then went to the enemy camp to assault Islam and attack the muslims.that is treason and in any islamic state it carries the death penalty.you do not defect to an "enemy state" and declare open enmity against your own people and question the character of your "head of state" and then pretend suprise if sentenced to death in absentia.

The war they cannot win with their planes and bombs against islam by subduing muslims,they're using the pen to try to destroy Islam and destroy the faith of muslims.the pen is indeed mightier than the sword as Prophet Muhammad (sa) stated.the pen is being used as a weapon.

If I may ask,who really organize these religious debates in a work environment and to what end? I don't think religion should be taken to work.it will only create more tension and bad feelings.

If Salman Rushdie is on my street and I can get hold
of him,I am 3.3 million dollars richer!
Whether I would personally kill him,I think till then
if it ever happened you'd get to know.but definitely
I wouldn't kill him if that would amount to murder
charge in the country I live in or my arrest for
murder,which would see me leave the 3.3 million
behind bars or even hanged for murder.that isn't a
smart move!

LagosShia:

If Salman Rushdie is on my street and I can get hold of him,I am 3.3 million dollars richer!

Whether I would personally kill him,I think till then if it ever happened you'd get to know.but definitely I wouldn't kill him if that would amount to murder charge in the country I live in or my arrest for murder,which would see me leave the 3.3 million behind bars or even hanged for murder.that isn't a smart move!

vet707: This thread has been so intriguing. I think I've learnt a few things. I'm of d opinion that constructive debates should be encouraged & more so if it is religiously or intellectually inclined. I further wish to pitch my tent with d hadith that says "actions shall be judged according to the intentions". Therefore, Allah (SWT) knows best. Looking around, it is obvious that KSA that is supposed to be the linchpin of d custodians of the islamic tenets wears a lukewarm cloak in the matter of the heated issue of the blasphemous movie. Personally, I dont subscribe to passing death sentences on the such disillusioned folk who made the inane movie.

Paris-Love:
Lol ok salman wrote a book that defamed Islam

instead of putting 3 million dollars bounty on salman head.

Why not the muslim Clerics write a rebuttal to it?

Or do they lack logic reasoning?

And to say he is a terrorist just for writing a book is laughable

BetaThings:
You did not laugh and ask the Britons to fight blasphemy by writing books when they had a law against blasphemy
Have you asked those Christian countries who make it a criminal offence to deny the holocaust to counter holocuast denial by writing or refuting the deniers?
Note that they call it holocaust denial, not holocaust debate
Christianity = religion of hypocrisy and double standard

SMH4You.
Are you on the assumption that am in support of the holocaust denial punishment? Pls put your thinking cap on.

BetaThings:
You did not laugh and ask the Britons to fight blasphemy by writing books when they had a law against blasphemy
Have you asked those Christian countries who make it a criminal offence to deny the holocaust to counter holocuast denial by writing or refuting the deniers?
Note that they call it holocaust denial, not holocaust debate
Christianity = religion of hypocrisy and double standard