@bish2001

Thank you I take it as a compliment because I am very illiterate when Good speaks about his word. He can confound me and i don't know anything about him unless He reveals to me.

You said where is it in scripture that says What made.

The aspect of christianity is to be like God in Holiness.

In Pastor Chris's preaching he seems to say You have a problem when you know the word enough you will be able to over come it. Meanwhile we see pastors of 10 to 20 years that stayed long in the house of God fallen into immorality of the Highest order.

What you did yesterday in the spirit remain at yesterday. Christian victorious living is daily.

Now to boldened question.

bish2001:


@backslider,
Dnt be offended by this post but honestly i doubt your level of literacy. Where did you see in the bible that after being born again, if you remain at that level, you have sinned and no longer worthy of heaven? Check carefully the ministry of Jesus Christ; His miracles were nearly always followed by Him teaching those new converts the word of God. It is that Word that sanctifies and transform the hearer. And that is exactly what we do in Christ Embassy.

I don't know God but i know one thing God Knows me. I agree I am very iliterate that is why I read his word.

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.


please lets us study Scripture not men's word

@Backslider, some patience & forgiveness will present you both matured and literate ok! So relax and smile! Jesus loves you bro!

Man of God (@bish2001), I think you may have gone a little over the edge by calling someone you don't know illiterate; he's unguarded statements on a forum (or at least not in person) shouldn't be everything we may use to determine what manner of person he is;

You see. . ., the internet is quite deceptive and many of us don't know it: Before I left Nigeria for South Africa, I got a young lady in Lagos to fall in love with me! She's even older than me! But I told her I was in the US, my name was James, I was coming to Nigeria soon to have a family meeting and then will I return to the states; I told her my cousin will call her that night. I called her and claimed I was the cousin (changed my voice); then I called her a few days later saying I was me (James)! We spoke for HOURS! But that's not my name, I've not been to the US yet, I don't think I have a cousin with the name I told her; but I hurt the young lady! I'm really sorry about it, because it's not funny to hurt someone and is not a great thing to be hurt by people we don't even know (or see!), but my life has changed since then - Praise God!

But I said all that to say this, I may sound so spiritual and christian in a chat room, but I'm not be living the greatest Christian life you'd have ever known! And that's why I can look unto Jesus to perfect me everyday, and the more I need this perfection, the more I look into the Word, watch Pastor's (and other ministers') DVDs, read their books and listen to tapes; that's why we do all that stuff - like brother @donnie said to get The Truth - Jesus said He is! The Truth about who we really are, what we have and how to use it!

I know @Backslider has quite an understanding in relation to what we are being taught, but that's how we met the world - with differences - we didn't invent it! I love you as well!

Oh by the way, @Backslider, If at all you're really illiterate, the bible is the best book to read! Do you know of a man named Smith Wigglesworth, wasn't much literate too, but the ONLY book he ever read was the bible! Pastor Chris sometimes makes reference to him - He's a great and mighty man of God!!! So you're on the right path with studying the bible.

God bless you and . . . Oop, I've got food on fire, got to go! Love Y'all!

Papa, please understand that i don't have anything against you, therefore this my posting is neither a personal attack nor an attempt to take sides, rather I am just making a point as to why I disagree with your opinion and interpretation of the biblical verse that you quoted:

first and foremost, lets understand the definition of a Miracle:

A miracle is an amazing and wonderful occurence.


Secondly,  you quoted the bible passage that says:

"Every good and perfect gift comes from God

and then you later said that:

My dear friend, God IS the author of ALL miracles! Otherwise why does the bible say "Every good and perfect gift comes from God"?! The devil can't perform miracles; he may deceive you so you don't see that the disease is still there and make you think you're healed.

Now to start my submission , let me make a quotation from the bible (similar to what you said earlier), we have:

Jas 1:17  Jas 1:16  Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jas 1:17  Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

The key words in those verses are


1. Every good gift
2. Every perfect gift

The bible did not say:


1. Every good miracle
2. Every perfect miracle


So Papa the non-religious fact is that it is not everything that we consider to be a miracle that actually comes from God. Simply because the devil can perform a miracle not as a good gift but as a tool for deception. In other cases that so called "miracle" might not even be true (it might only look like a miracle to a desperate and deceived eyes).

Hence I agree with what someone said earlier , when that person said that God is not a author of all miracles..

It would have been better to paraphrase the statement of that person and rather say that God is the author of all good and true miracle that agree with His Word

Again Papa, if we religiously believe that all miracles come from God, then we are making ourselves susceptible to being deceived by the devil simply because the bible says that we should test all spirits to know that they are off God, and the truth is that evils spirits have the ability to deceive people into believing that they have witnessed a miracle , when in actually reality non had occured. However a deceived person who witnessed such a miracle would then erroneously think that God had done that so called miracle.

Again Papa , even Jesus Himself makes it clear and obvious to Christians that a non-christian (worshipper of the devil or deceived person) is capable of performing miracles using powers that did not come from God. This is obvious from the following bible verse:

Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So Papa unless we want to call Jesus a liar, we can otherwise easily see that people that are not of God can perform miracles that consequently are not of God.

As such it would be wrong for us to now say that God is that author of the miracles performed by those people

Furthermore we have to understand that since the devil simply cannot do anything good, then we have a responsibility to question a miracle that does not tally with the Word of God, even the motive and reason behind every so called miracle; so as to know whether or not it is a good gift or perfect gift according to the Word of God. For example the spirit "trying to speak through Peter" was rebuked by Christ when that spirit wanted to tempt/exhort Jesus into not submitting Himself to the crucifixion, that spirit wanted to say that Jesus should not die , yet the death of Jesus on the cross (which men with lack of understanding might have called a bad thing), was actually a Good and Perfect Gift from God.

So you see something can actually "look good" or "look like a miracle" to we men and still be an act of evil rebellion to God and something can look bad  or ordinary to we men and actually be a Good Gift and Miracle from God to we men.

So finally my submission is that:

Though:

Every Good and Perfect Gift from God,

however

Not every miracle is a good and perfect gift from God.

@sysuser

That is very Good post. You cant know by reading some of the books we have nowadays.

My understanding of God and satan was always brought to question since I was a Child. It was God that was setting me up for this end time question of "if miracles are performed and people come then God must be in it"

I even questioned God about the Number of Muslim Going to Hell because according to his word they were. God by his mercy explained to me that he is not a God of Number several times in Scripture.

These new preachers are selling A Jesus that is a medicine. They are using his name as a drug. Jesus is not worried about his use as he will save those he can according to his mercy.

But those that sell this drug and the addicts should know that no one is worthy of heaven except he follows Jesus and Jesus alone.

As I said to @bish2001, we didn't invent this, we met it! I'm glad God won't deceive us and neither can the enemy, "lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices"

Papa:

My dear friend, God IS the author of ALL miracles! Otherwise why does the bible say "Every good and perfect gift comes from God"?! The devil can't perform miracles; he may deceive you so you don't see that the disease is still there and make you think you're healed.

The magicians of pharaoh could also turn their staff into snakes just exactly like bro Moses.

even Moses wasn't performing a miracle there! That was a sign. Signs are not for believers, they're for unbelievers. Try again.

Papa:

even Moses wasn't performing a miracle there! That was a sign. Signs are not for believers, they're for unbelievers. Try again.

you people are simply confused. I will hold my peace for now because frankly its a waste of time arguing with sinners playing church.

4Him:

you people are simply confused. I will hold my peace for now because frankly its a waste of time arguing with sinners playing church.

4Him, let it go , don't let the disagreement about miracles or no miracles get you angry or frustrated. just know part of our job as Christians is to allow the Holy Spirit divide the word of Truth for us , then exhort our fellow brethren and then keep our peace if our fellow brethren refuse to see it that way.

We can only pray that each and every one of us would win a crown of glory in at the end of the day.

Let us understand that on this journey we at one time also had things we believed but which we later realised were not biblical.

So 4Him don't let your heart be troubled, its just a forum.

thank you sysuser.

Happy Sunday.

I also want to make it clear that anything which seems like a personal attack on Pastor Chris is'nt intended to be. They are only principles that apply to everyone and some people in his calibre.

Some of the things you wrote prove that you didnt grasp this statement of mine, unfortunately. But none the less,

Mat 7:16  Ye shall know them by their fruits.

Their fruits, not their works. The fruits of the Spirit= love, joy, peace, , , , ,

Mat 7:19  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Following your pattern of thinking, that shuld mean that since I am not (supposedly) performing miracles; 'bringing forth fruit', I am going to hell pretty sonn, right? And over 90% of the body of Christ and pastors etc are going dowwwn too right? Again I say 'fruits' refers to fruits of the Spirit not works or miracles or 'miracles'.

I italicized the "Pharisees" there 'because I heard someone call them the "Far to sees"; and the Saducees, the "Sad to sees" Too far and too sad to see good things (opening of blind eyes, unstopping of deaf ears, a 3.5 million man gathering for Jesus!?

, quotable quotes. I would prefer that you analyse the two words using the original literal Hebrew/Greek/whatever language it was. Or did you? Besides that was a personal attack, be honest.

But today, we are looking to doctors to PROVE the works of GOD?!

I didn't ask for no doctors. Most of Jesus' miracles, if not all were done in broad day light, right in front of everyone. Not to say that God is dogmatic and won't do anything in private (because he always does!!!). We're supposed to be doing the greater works of Jesus. Moreover, there are unbelievers out there who won't believe except they see. So I'm more sypathetic for them. These things used to happen in the early crusades, the Asuza street revival and stuff like that. We need more of that today.  They equal the works of Jesus and we are supposed to be doing greater. And I'm referring to the body of Christ in its totality not just Pastor Chris.

My dear friend, God IS the author of ALL miracles!

K, lets bring this away from the crusade ground and into the wider perspective. An igbo guy badly needs a male child because he is the heir apparent to the throne; he has been waiting for say seven years. He eventually goes to babalawo (which doctor) and within three months wife concieves and delivers safely. Few sundays later he gets up in church to share the 'testimony of a miracle child after 7 years'. Is that miracle from God? Think and be honest. Are ALL miracles therefore from God?
Please don't suggest that such things don't happen because that would be too naiive.

P.S. you ever heard the story of the guy that was blind from birth and got his healing in a crusade and when asked the color of the Pastors tie he identified it accurately. TRUE STORY!!!! How do you reconcile that? Or the guy that walks up to the podiom after receiving his 'miracle', and the pastor identifies him (off stage) as one of the houseboys that was just fine the previous day. Please do not assume that these stories are too outrageous to be true, that would also be naive. We are in the endtimes.

How is this not willful rebellion against God's voice

I can only verify God's voice by the WORD and their FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT, not by the number of miracles.

How can you ask for proof to a proof?!

I do not dispute the fact that Jesus is alive.

your saviour, bible AND pastor should be your primary source

I totally agree with your order of priority. It only re-echoes what I said: "I believe that a christian should not see his/her Pastor as the primary source of revelation knowledge". I am not underestimating the importance of Pastors and teachers in a christian's life, thats why God appointed some Pastors, some Apostles, etc. I am only speaking against over-reliance on a pastor or taking what Pastor says, his/her own qutation and running with it without having a verse or more of scripture that you can put beside it and would make spiritual sense. It was not directed at CE members. Now, I would crave your indulgence to scroll up and re-read the first statement of this post.

"How do you say you hear and do the words of a God you can't see

Simple!, by FAITH, for it is the evidence of things NOT seen.

Let's start here, from your Psalm 91:3
if you trust Jesus enough, why don't you go carry your own loudspeaker to preach about Him and cast out devils and expect them to go!? The one who is already doing it sure trusts Him to perform more than you do - for a reason. If there's more trust, I would expect from YOUR OWN judgement, that the more the condition is fulfilled the more results should be expected!

Recap: I wrote a four-point post about things which i was quite skeptical about in Pastor Chris' ministry, besides that is the only post where whatever I said was directed to him specifically. No 4 was about the fact mumsy saw him encircled by men who I think if were assistants, should walk behind or in front of him. In my opinion, the man should not necessarily use human protection like some politician unless he has been molested severally. Then I raised the fact that angels surround him, and all other beleivers (heirs of salvation) 24/7 so we need not fear as long as we are keeping the conditions in Psalm 91:1-2. The primary issue was divine protection which you apparently  avoided.

Now returning to your post.

And oh how excellent that you say this: "Angels respond to the authority of Jesus' name exercised through a believer", but let's ask ourselves a question, will they respond to your authority more than you respond to the authority in the Name of Jesus!? You surely don't respond to it that much, otherwise we should have read of you in the newspapers as one of the greatest users of that authority in healing the sick and casting out devils too! Or are you battling with pride?!

Ok that was just for my laughing pleasure! Ignore that question!

I was asked to ignore this,  I'm so sorry I didnt!!! 1.I think I sense the spirit/motive behind the joke. 2. After Jesus cast devils out of the guy by the sea where the swine was, he asked Him to go tell his family nd friends or something like that, riight? Or was it 'BBC' he asked him to go to? There are many genuine people underground, know that. There is a time and a season for everything under the sun, besides the pride factor.

What about this?
If pastor Chris is getting all those results, by his angels ministering to people in places that he's not, why are yours not doing so, since it's the same Jesus's Name!?

1. It's the power of God, be it the healing, delivering, saving, etc that gets the job done, not the angels of the individual through whom it was done. This power/answer could be transported by angels though. Please study the passage below.
Daniel 10:
2In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks. , mourning there means fasting in the orginal language

3I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.
5Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
6His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
^{I believe this description fits an angel.} Furthermore,


12Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come ^{(where do you think he came from?)} for thy words.

13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael ^{(remember angel Michael, Gabriel, ?)}, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

14Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.


2.

why are yours not doing so

Could you please prove that I am not doing the greater works of Jesus? Is it because I'm coming to South Africa soon but I ain't having a crusade? (honestly)

Shalom.

SysUser:

. . .our job as Christians is to allow the Holy Spirit divide the word of Truth for us , then exhort our fellow brethren and then keep our peace if our fellow brethren refuse to see it that way. We can only pray that each and every one of us would win a crown of glory in at the end of the day.
Let us understand that on this journey we at one time also had things we believed but which we later realized were not biblical.
So 4Him don't let your heart be troubled, its just a forum.

True that! It's just a forum, what if we get to heaven tomorrow and God says all of us were wrong?! It'll be quite a sight! I don't say that everything I say and Pastor Chris says is definitely right; because I don't know myself which is right or wrong, but he's been given to me by the Holy Spirit for me to trust his leadership and I do, so don't hate! Take everything I say here as an opinion based on how I have understood it! Think about it, if Pastor shows up here, he could even say some of the things I've said are wrong, as I also didn't understand them clearly. . . So what keeps me going - the arguing - not the fights it brings, but if words are not forced out of people, how do the inquisitive learn?! I learn from all of you - I won't lie, there's just some things I surely won't take in at all, based on what my teacher (inside) says is good or not for me!

---

A_K_O:

Happy Sunday.

Their fruits, not their works. The fruits of the Spirit= love, joy, peace, , , , ,

Well, happy sunday to you too, Fruits there don't only mean the fruits of the spirit; remember that Jesus was talking to men who hadn't received the Holy Spirit. Plus if it was only people who were filled with the Spirit, how do we know by what "fruits" to discern Christians who are not filled with the Spirit yet (but are born again)

---

A_K_O:

Following your pattern of thinking, that shuld mean that since I am not (supposedly) performing miracles; 'bringing forth fruit', I am going to hell pretty sonn, right? And over 90% of the body of Christ and pastors etc are going dowwwn too right? Again I say 'fruits' refers to fruits of the Spirit not works or miracles or 'miracles'.

@A_K_O, I notice you're not fond of reading properly before you respond - who exactly said those who don't perform miracles go to hell?! And if you believe what you just said up there - where amongst the (at least listed) fruits of the spirit is there "miracles"?

---

A_K_O:

quotable quotes. I would prefer that you analyse the two words using the original literal Hebrew/Greek/whatever language it was. Or did you? Besides that was a personal attack, be honest.

Dude! What is the matter with you?! Did you read what I was saying there at all or have you just lost it!?
Ok, what if I was the one that made the statement and it was not a quote, would you talk about quotable quotes?!
That's not the point behind that statement. If you noticed, the mention of Pharisees had nothing to do with what we'd been talking about. (I also made mention of the Saducees while they were not even in the passage or discussion!) I just decided to add some flavour to the forum!

Geez! If you really behave like this many people will not like to hold conversations with you - you take things way out of context!
That is surely not the literal meaning of Pharisees and Saducees, it just happens to also be characteristic of them in stories about them in the bible!

---

A_K_O:


I didn't ask for no doctors. Most of Jesus' miracles, if not all were done in broad day light, right in front of everyone. Not to say that God is dogmatic and won't do anything in private (because he always does!!!). We're supposed to be doing the greater works of Jesus. Moreover, there are unbelievers out there who won't believe except they see. So I'm more sypathetic for them. These things used to happen in the early crusades, the Asuza street revival and stuff like that. We need more of that today. They equal the works of Jesus and we are supposed to be doing greater. And I'm referring to the body of Christ in its totality not just Pastor Chris.

Listen, young man, you should read/listen before you talk; the bible records that Jesus sent people to the high priest for proof that they've been healed! Whether or not the miracles were done inside or outside! And talking about open air miracles, Pastor heals at crusades with millions, what's not "broad day light" about that!? And talking about "seeing is believing", look what Jesus said to Thomas - Joh 20:29 ". . . blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. . ." What's the world's business the guy who's healed on tv?! He's healed whether you like it or not, so why are you bothering yourself about a proof? The guy has proof! You don't! And still you are worse off, because he believes and his faith is strengthened; yours is still there battling with the senses whether or not it is real - is that not walking according to the senses?!

---

A_K_O:

K, lets bring this away from the crusade ground and into the wider perspective. An igbo guy badly needs a male child because he is the heir apparent to the throne; he has been waiting for say seven years. He eventually goes to babalawo (which doctor) and within three months wife concieves and delivers safely. Few sundays later he gets up in church to share the 'testimony of a miracle child after 7 years'. Is that miracle from God? Think and be honest. Are ALL miracles therefore from God?
Please don't suggest that such things don't happen because that would be too naiive.

That is NOT a testimony - That igbo guy is simply a liar! And so that's not a miracle - you see why I said "every good and perfect gift"?! That child was given to them by the devil, do you think that child will grow up to give them peace?! That's not a miracle. A miracle is the Supernatural intervention of God is the physical! That was not GOD, that was the devil!

---

A_K_O:

P.S. you ever heard the story of the guy that was blind from birth and got his healing in a crusade and when asked the color of the Pastors tie he identified it accurately. TRUE STORY!!!! How do you reconcile that? Or the guy that walks up to the podiom after receiving his 'miracle', and the pastor identifies him (off stage) as one of the houseboys that was just fine the previous day. Please do not assume that these stories are too outrageous to be true, that would also be naive. We are in the endtimes.

That is the foolishness of carnality speaking! Is the God that healed him not able to give him knowledge as HE pleases!?
I'm so so so so grateful to God for His infinite wisdom! He knew such stories would come up and so He put one we could refer to in the scriptures!

Mar 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida: and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
Mar 8:23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw aught.
Mar 8:24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mar 8:25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

HOW DID THE BLIND MAN KNOW WHAT TREES LOOKED LIKE - See, we rationalize the doings of God with our minds that's why we don't get as much results from the same simple prayers that men of old prayed or the same scriptures they read and quote! - Was that not the same thing Sarah did?! I dare say that if that story was not in the bible, you'll not believe that a 90 year old woman can still give birth for a miracle! EVEN SARAH, the WIFE OF THE FATHER OF FAITH!!! Laughed when GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF (while visiting at Abraham's) said she'll be pregnant!

---

A_K_O:

I can only verify God's voice by the WORD and their FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT, not by the number of miracles.

Again, another evidence that you didn't read properly before you replied! Who said number of miracles?!
I was talking about God's Voice by the mouth of His prophet! But you would rather see what you want than what is actually there huh?!

---

A_K_O:

I do not dispute the fact that Jesus is alive.

Well, good for you! You had better!

---

A_K_O:

Simple!, by FAITH, for it is the evidence of things NOT seen.

Oh! What an excellent answer! So why can't you apply it with the Voice of God through a man of God's mouth!?

---

A_K_O:

I was asked to ignore this, I'm so sorry I didnt!!! 1.I think I sense the spirit/motive behind the joke. 2. After Jesus cast devils out of the guy by the sea where the swine was, he asked Him to go tell his family nd friends or something like that, riight? Or was it 'BBC' he asked him to go to? There are many genuine people underground, know that. There is a time and a season for everything under the sun, besides the pride factor.

Why you would choose to reply to a joke without any negative motive - I don't understand, but it's alright, you have a right to your opinion on matters isnt it!?
This is another thing you have taken out of context - I really hope that you don't do that with the bible!

---

A_K_O:

1. It's the power of God, be it the healing, delivering, saving, etc that gets the job done, not the angels of the individual through whom it was done. This power/answer could be transported by angels though. Please study the passage below.
Daniel 10:
2In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks. , mourning there means fasting in the orginal language

3I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.
5Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
6His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
^{I believe this description fits an angel.} Furthermore,
12Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come ^{(where do you think he came from?)} for thy words.

13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael ^{(remember angel Michael, Gabriel, ?)}, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

14Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

2. Could you please prove that I am not doing the greater works of Jesus? Is it because I'm coming to South Africa soon but I ain't having a crusade? (honestly)
Shalom.

Ha ha ha! That's a really good closing, although I neither saw how that passage is connected nor how it answers the question!

God bless you bro! Good talking with you again!

Perhaps, you should send me your email address, so I can give you my number; so you let me know when you get to RSA, we could meet, have a nice chat and I could show a few cool places around. Be good!

This actually getting tiring

how do we know by what "fruits" to discern Christians who are not filled with the Spirit yet (but are born again)

I don't know, seriously. You said that Jesus was talking to people who had not received the Holy Spirit. Jesus in Matthew 24 told His disciples about the signs of His second coming and the end of the world. They were not near either of these events but we are. I think that some of the things God put in the bible were not for the benefit of the people around then but more for our own benefit. Because He was not plannig to update the bible.

@A_K_O, I notice you're not fond of reading properly before you respond - who exactly said those who don't perform miracles go to hell?! And if you believe what you just said up there - where amongst the (at least listed) fruits of the spirit is there "miracles"?

Lets do another recap ok? I mentioned the fact that not all 'miracles' are of God. In your response to that you quoted the scriptures on fruits. One of them says that any tree that does'nt bear fruit shall be cut down and thrown into the fire. You made it seem as if fruits=miracles because of the direct response.

here's your Acts-sorcerer story, it doesn't connect with the topic!

I was actually talking about Simon, the sorcerer "To whom all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God" (Acts 8:10). My intention was to highlight the fact that it is not everything that people refer to as 'God' that is. Some of it is satan's fabrication.

That's not the point behind that statement. If you noticed, the mention of Pharisees had nothing to do with what we'd been talking about. (I also made mention of the Saducees while they were not even in the passage or discussion!) I just decided to add some flavour to the forum!

In that case, please endevour to indicate that you are writing off-point when you are.

And if you believe what you just said up there - where amongst the (at least listed) fruits of the spirit is there "miracles"?

I'd like to explain what I was actually saying. We are supposed to know the 'real' pastors by the fruits of the Spirit exhibited in their lives and ministries not by the number or quality of 'miracles' done through them. Although thinking about it, miracles could be a proof of fruit-bearing. One of the advantages of small churches is that brethren are able to get up close and personal with their pastors (if the pastors are open people), there is less protocol. So it would be easier to find out about his/her private life and make one's judgement from there. (beside the point).

That is NOT a testimony - That igbo guy is simply a liar! And so that's not a miracle - you see why I said "every good and perfect gift"?! That child was given to them by the devil, do you think that child will grow up to give them peace?! That's not a miracle. A miracle is the Supernatural intervention of God is the physical! That was not GOD, that was the devil!

YOu are absolutely correct, I am happy to have brought that out of your mind. 1. If the 'testimony' was aired people would be made to believe and some would run to the church like ants run to sugar. It's one of the pathetic situations in the church today.

I will explain the ending of my last post later.

@ sys thanks for your beautiful input on Miracles, you have said much more than your post.

Satan Can not create a Child

Backslider:

Satan Can not create a Child

John 1:3- All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being. {AMPLIFIED}

Thank you. Anybody who believes he can probably does  not know about how answers to christians' prayers are sometimes aborted by lack of importunity for example, and these answers get into satan's hands. I was actually going to expantiate on that but I changed my mind because like I said, this whold thread is getting tiring. And plus it's deep stuff, meat not milk so I doubt that some people would be able to chew.

There is mothing like devil Child, But a child can be troubled by the devil(fallen spirits)

Satan cannot make a Child but can claim ownership of a Child but the faith of the parents.

A Child (Witchcraft) is a machinations of deception that has deceived many.

Satanic spirits When it posses a man takes over the mind and heart of a man consciuosly or Unconsciuosly.

The Child mind is not fully developed hence it can not good use of the Child to its purpose.

Christians have been given authority to cast out the Demons. You dont need to Write a book about casting out demons. Live a holy life and pray fast.

Witch Craft is spiritual Trickery that has a way of fooling the possesed and those that witness the man being possesed.

A_K_O:

K, lets bring this away from the crusade ground and into the wider perspective. An igbo guy badly needs a male child because he is the heir apparent to the throne; he has been waiting for say seven years. He eventually goes to babalawo (which doctor) and within three months wife concieves and delivers safely. Few sundays later he gets up in church to share the 'testimony of a miracle child after 7 years'. Is that miracle from God? Think and be honest. Are ALL miracles therefore from God?
Please don't suggest that such things don't happen because that would be too naiive.

@A_K_O, you really don't think when you talk, do you?! Because you were the one who spoke about a witch doctor (devil's advocate on earth - someone may want to call them) giving a couple a child. . . so when I say such a thing is not of God (because I don't know Him to work with witch doctors), you start another talk like you didn't start it;

Anyway, it's because you fellows don't know that man is a spirit that has a soul and lives in a body, then you'll understand how that giving birth to a child was made a natural process by God when he said ". . .be fruitful and multiply. . ." and that's why a demon can interrupt the natural and cause a woman to be barren, otherwise, if God had to be working a "miracle" every time a child is born rather than it being a natural process, then the devil shouldn't be able to stop it! Plus if God is doesn't fornication and adultery, why should he allow a baby to be born out of it?! So giving birth was made natural in that statement ". . .be fruitful and multiply. . .". Let me know what y'all think!

Ciao

Let me know what y'all think

I would like to deflect the spotlight, and ask you, how do you think the devil is able to give unbelievers the same results that christians get, e.g 2 barren couples, one believes God and gets the child and the other sees the babalawo and gets a child? It actually has a lot to do with the end of one of my previous posts on Daniel that you couldnt connect. Though someone earlier made reference to Moses, I would like to quote it here, KJV. I hope you understand it:

Exodus chapter 7.
8- And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron

9- When Pharoah shall speak unto you saying, Shew a miracle for you: then you shalt say unto Aaron, take thy rod, and cast it before Pharoa, and it shall become a serpent.

10- And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharoah, and they did as the Lord commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharoah and before his servants, and it became a serpent.

11- The Pharoah also called the wise men and the sorcerers, now the magicians of Egypt, they did in like manner with their enchantments

if u check verse 12, it will give you an insight into the destructive end of this kind of thing. But that does not mean it does not happen in the first place. God bless.

@A_K_O, you really don't think when you talk, do you?!

Papa,
If I've made any like statement on this thread, I apologise. One of the features of any forum, online or offline is debate, healthy debate. I try as much as possible to refrain from personal attacks because I do not think it is the way forward on a public forum such as this. The fact that we are not on live television does not give us the license to be uncivilised.

Pélé

hi,i am new here.it's amazing to know that some people will go anything length to find faults in men of God.i can confidently say this that, pastor Chris is a man of God.do not judge or you will have to answer to God.

Paypal: Good to know that you are saved, I was just a bit puzzled that more priority is given to healing and miracle programmes rather than letting people know that being saved is the priority. I am not in any position to judge him but I still think we need the old time religion where more is preached about salvation and second coming of Jesus (which is near)

God bless Pastor Chris.

oscaruk, oscaruk, how long will u all reject the gifts from GOD? u said u are not judging but u are pouring out your mind, that very good. in the first place who told u Pastor Chris is not concern about being saved? hear this pastor Chris is one of the pastors that are so concern about the kingdom of God. not this temporal world. Chris is not preaching prosperity, healing and miracle. what he is preaching is Christ the saving word of God. it is u that do not understand because u are very far from his ministry. u said u need old time religion than this days ok. Jesus Christ ask his disciple who do men say that i am? the disciples answer some say john the baptist, some say prophet and so on. and Jesus ask them who do u say that i am? Peter spoke up thou are Christ the son of the living God. Jesus look at him and said u got a revelation! that is not from men but from the father. (Jesus Christ said u have a revelation).
Friend the manifestation of God u are seeing today is a revelation. once u have a revelation u have to use it, act on it, walk on it so that u will have more revelation! if i may ask u, was there any thing like computer 2000 years ago. absolutely no.
my dear please bring more attention to God word and people that have gone far of you on it. so that u will understand God more because He is not a man.
bless u Oscaruk

,

if your internet is a lil fast, watch loveworld tv on imvite.com. great job by loveworld.

Pastor Chris Oyakhilome is a gift from God. Why? His teachings are based only on the Word Power. He teaches and imparts Faith to the hearer. One major thing that motivates me about him, is the quality of Love and Excellence he carries and share. He inspires me to love Jesus Christ and love anybody!

If Chris O yakhilome of christembassy is a true servant of God, then why has he not unsubscribe my email from info@healing-school.org and partners@healing-school.org which are his emails where he sends SPAM to Christians? I have tried to unsubscribe from his email for close to a year now and yet they have not removed me from their mailing list. Why is that? This shows me that Chris Oyakhilome is not a man of integrity because even Jesus Christ will not force his message and views on us. Chris Oyakhilome does not project Christ but seems to want donations as I always see money being hinted in his messages otherwise why can't he be a proper Christian with the fruit of the spirit and unsubscibe me or people who don't want to be on his mailing list? This is inform others not to subscribe to any christembassy mailing list or you will get SPAM FOR ETERNITY, I challenge anyone who is on this man's mailing list to try to unsubscribe to his emails and see if you really get unsubscribed!

those reports and comments are wonderful.

how i love achievers!
a man of a his own perfect class.
using cutting adge info disemination techniques for the spread of the gospel.
i love that man.

however, the best criticism to anything whatsoever is to produce a better stuff that that.
if you can beat PASTOR CHRIS, the whole wide world is waiting for you.

It is sad that people say all sorts of things. No matter what you say or do in what language. when Jesus came they spat,they screamed,they chanted, they beat him.mocked him,called him a liar,a demon etc, but did he care NO,instead he prayed for them,did he defend himself , even when asked to NO instead he spoke the words he was given by his Father, but something happened in the midst of all this he was still Jesus the son of God who came to die for all people whether u wanted it or not and Guess what he still died, was buried and praise God was raised from the dead and ascended to his kingship with the Father in Heaven and the bible says all those that believe in him are with him and because they believe the power of the holy spirit shall come upon them and they shall be Jesus witnesses and do mighty things. so my brothers and sisters as Pastor Chris would say I declare to you a mystery ,despite what they said Jesus reigns and is alive and we r alive in him who believe.
What am I trying to say you can sit on your keyboard with whoever and say what you want about Pastor he does not need anyone to defend the work of God he is doing because God is his defence it will not change the fact that many r hearing the word and being saved, it will not change not one single thing. I never defend any work of God ,he does that. those that sit and criticise is a sign of the darkness tormenting them in their life, the bible says you r either in the light or the dark. Pastor Chris, I thank God for making you A Christian on a mission to speak the word of God, and your coming to Canada at the just ended night of Bliss, Toronto was wonderful. Blessed be God the father of our lord and savior Jesus Christ who has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in the highest heavens. Pastor Chris the way u teach the word has changed my life since I started buying your tapes and books 4yrs now.

sly-k:

however, the best criticism to anything whatsoever is to produce a better stuff that that.
if you can beat PASTOR CHRIS, the whole wide world is waiting for you.

No offence but what now makes him the standard? What happened to Jesus?

oh boy i love this! If Pastor Oyak proposes to me, i'll grab the opportunity. The anointing he carries is simply irresistible, hey not lusting ok. Instead of finding fault in one man that has transformed lives, y dnt u critics get commited to the word of God. Who knows u may just be the next answer to the world of failures and bondage. I thank God for giving us Pastor Oyak, he has done wonders and no one can counter. Ok he does miracles, and u question his powers, didnt Jesus our Lord do miracles also? He dresses extranvangantly, if u had the opportunity, u wud wear cloths made with gold and silver, wont u? but since wen did looking gud for Christ become an offense. If it offends to u, does it offend God? Wen Apostle Peter was told to stop preaching and healing in the name of Jesus, a man of knowlegde stood up to say "let him be, if he is not of God his ministry will come to an end". It has been years now and Pastor Oyak is still waxing strong in the spirit doing great things for the Kingdom of God while u haters are justing roasting waiting for things to wrong.

if you can beat PASTOR CHRIS, the whole wide world is waiting for you.

because the man is just so very Good

and i think is God sent to Our Nation.