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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? (4366 Views)
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Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by TheMadame(f): 7:01pm On Sep 30, 2012 |
Good day to all the knowledgeable people of the religious section.I do not know if this topic has been discussed before since I am new here.However I am a student of the Bible because it fascinates me a great deal.In fact I have read the book cover to cover a couple of times,however there is one passage that has always fascinated me and I have always wondered what this passage teaches us as students of the Bible or Christians? The passage in question is[b] 2nd Kings Chapter 2 verses 23-25. [/b] I have always wondered about this passage and what it is trying to teach us as Christians and as human beings. Please read along with me and let us rub minds together on this passage and any other passages in the Bible that you find fascinating; 2nd Kings chapter 2 verses 23-25. 23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way,there came forth little children out of the city and mocked him and said unto him,Go up thou bald head;go up thou bald head. 24 And he turned back and looked on them and cursed them in the name of the Lord;And there came forth two she bears out of the woods and tore forty and two children of them. 25 And he went from thence to Mount Carmel,and from thence he returned to Samaria. The Holy Bible,King James version. I am still baffled as to what this passage means to teach us. Please can I be enlightened? Thank you in advance. |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by k2039: 7:32pm On Sep 30, 2012 |
[size=13pt]Never mock a man of God Train up your children in the right way(if their parents had taught them well,they would have known not to mock any one) [/size] 1 Like |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by Callotti: 7:39pm On Sep 30, 2012 |
It just shows that Christians are 'butchers' of Christ. He lacks patience and understanding of how juvenile little children truly are. What a grumpy old dude! Typical man of God. . .devoid of forgiveness and patience like his wicked GOD! If they were adults who should know better, I could understand his angst. But as a man of GOD. . .no surprises there. An angry God can BREED angry prophets! Tufiakwa!!! 2nd Kings chapter 2 verses 23-25. Mu he he he he he he https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scs6mWiHnyA&feature=related 1 Like |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by TheMadame(f): 7:48pm On Sep 30, 2012 |
k2039: [size=13pt]Never mock a man of God Dear sir, These were youths who did not know any better. While I am not trying to hold brief, the violence in this short passage is shocking.There was no chance for these youths to repent of their folly. It is not surprising that lots of preachers give this passage a skip when preaching. How can the violence be explained in relation to the offence committed? |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by Nobody: 7:51pm On Sep 30, 2012 |
TheMadame: Are you arguing with the actions of the Creator. Your sense of good and evil were given to you by him, how dare you question his morals? He is the Creator. He does as he wishes with his creation.. a day is like a thousand years to him, for all he cares, those kids were a million years old... Justice/Yahweh was served.. 3 Likes |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by benodic: 8:31pm On Sep 30, 2012 |
what Elisha did was a gross abuse of spiritual power which of course he will pay the price if not in that life time then in another life time. this is the reason why spiritual power is not just given to an individual who has not developed spiritual discipline, love, patience and tolerance. there is no excuse to unleash mayhem on people just because you were called names. you do not fight for God.you allow divine justice to take its cause. |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by cleric(m): 9:01pm On Sep 30, 2012 |
musKeeto:God is sovereign, end of story. Our perception of what happened there does not matter. It is like trying to ask God why He does not send angels to save babies and kids during time of war. Why must some of them die painful deaths when they clearly are innocent? In yoruba, we will say 'Kabiyo osi' |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by Chuksxp: 9:46pm On Sep 30, 2012 |
I have two different views. One, Though Elisha was a prophet, he still was an imperfect person just like we all. So he could have misused God's power. Second view, the Bible didn't mention their age, so we can't say the children didn't know any better. Perhaps, even more importantly, it shows that when the Bible says the wages of sin is death, it's not something to take lightly. Mocking and making fun of people is wrong, and what we consider little sins are big sins in God's eyes. For example, Eve only ate a fruit. And Lot's wife only looked back. Yet, we know what happened to them. God bless. |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by TheMadame(f): 9:58pm On Sep 30, 2012 |
Can we really say that what they youths did-mocking Elisha was a sin? Does this sin of mockery justify the punishment of the sinners being devoured by wild bears? Why do many Men of God avoid quoting this passage in the Bible? Please I wish to be enlightened. Or could this story be an allegory? |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by yemisolar(m): 10:14pm On Sep 30, 2012 |
Op, it was a real occurence and not just an allegory. First of all, the hebrew word translated children could actually be more accurately translated young adolescents or youths. So that rules out the fact that they did not know what they were doing. They were probabaly making jest of him that he should vanish just as his master has just done. It might not be a direct sin to God but it was offensive to him. on the other hand, elisha was just coming back from the traumatic experience of elijah being taken away. So he was not in a good frame of mind. just imagine if your father has just died in an accident and someone walks up to you to go take a car, drive and kill yourself like your father.Therefore i believe this was an emotional reaction from him and not a sovereign act of God. However all these happened in the old testament. Believers in the NT are not allowed/encouraged to do the same. An instance is where the sons of thunder(james & john) wanted to call fire down because they didnt allow Jesus to go in and Jesus' reply was that they do not know the spirit that they carry. In otherwords, if Jesus was in elisha's shoes. He wouldn't react that way and believers are expected to act the same way. Just my 2cents 3 Likes |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by Chuksxp: 10:19pm On Sep 30, 2012 |
TheMadame: Can we really say that what they youths did-mocking Elisha was a sin? Does this sin of mockery justify the punishment of the sinners being devoured by wild bears? Like I said, mocking people is a sin. And it may seem small to us humans, but it is big in God's eyes. Just like lying, many people see it as a normal thing, but God condemns it so strongly. I don't know why many preachers don't quote it. But I'm sure there are those who've preached on it. We've not listened to every single preacher in the world, so just because we've never heard it doesn't mean they aren't preaching on it. Moreover, we shouldn't just quote passages for quoting sake. So, a preacher will quote it if there is something he wants to teach from there. I mean, there are many passages in the Bible that people quote a lot (John 3:16, Jer 29:11, etc) and there are some that don't get quoted so much. But like I said, I don't think they avoid it just for avoiding sake. If they feel there's something they'd want to teach from there, I'm sure they'll quote it. |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by TheMadame(f): 7:51am On Oct 01, 2012 |
^ while I commend your attempt to answer the questions thrown up by this passage,it does not sound convincing to me? Why kill a fly with a sledge hammer? Why curse in the name of the Lord? Why so much violence? What does this passage teach us about misuse of spiritual power? |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by Nobody: 8:48am On Oct 01, 2012 |
Truth be told. Elisha suffered from tantrum. We know what he did to gehazi. Like he never committed a crime under elijah. When we grow in spirit, it is also advisable we gain in tolerance. The kids were wrong, and so elisha. That he is a prophet does not make him perfect. |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by oomen(m): 9:47am On Oct 01, 2012 |
Possibly he had taken that route several times before that day.And each time he plies this route these children make mockery of him.It's also possible he had warned them several times but they wouldn't listen to him.You can imagine such huge number of people clapping,dancing,coined a derogatory song for you,following you about & making mockery of you in the public.Apart from the children,don't you think there possibly could be some good number of adult spectators there in the street who could have cautioned those children but chose not to,because they themselves were deriving pleasure from it all.It's upsetting, though am not in anyway justifying his action. |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by Nobody: 10:17am On Oct 01, 2012 |
see as people don dey try change the story, because the story doesn't make any sense whatsoever to their understanding of God.. the kids were prob not kids, it wasn't their first time, elisha had an itch on his balls, it wasn't God's fault, it was Elisha's because he wasn't perfect.. instead of using common sense, they've dropped it at the altar of Yahweh, and speak like zombies.. The story has to be wrong, our creator can not be like this, he's love.. he probably had a purpose ... lmao.. 1 Like |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by paulcr7: 12:17pm On Oct 01, 2012 |
This passage is one of the the passages that teach us that Jesus christ is the only worthy example for christians.It exposes the limitations of the prophets and exalt the perfection of christ.Elijha was also subjected to 'flesh'of which anger is one of the fruits of the 'flesh'.As christians,it teach us that we should be spiritually minded because the flesh cannot please God.Its only the spirit that drives us to live after christ.The flesh is weak,even with great prophets,the weakness was made manifest.IF it had been jesus christ,no matter the situation he wont destory lives.he endured more tribulation,more insults and more disgrace on his way to the cross.CHRIST IS OUR ONLY AND GREATEST EXAMPLE,THE PROPHETS FAILED ONLY CHRIST DIDNT. 4 Likes |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by EvilBrain1(m): 2:50pm On Oct 01, 2012 |
I love threads like this. It's funny to see Nairaland Christians try to defend any of their god's many episodes of psychopathy. Killing 42 "little children" is okay because they weren't really that small, and he must have warned them many times, and Elisha was traumatized from watching his BFF Elijah fly up to heaven. Luckiw, things are much more clear-cut for we atheists. Killing small children is wrong, end of story! No buts, no ifs, ands or maybes. 1 Like |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by TheMadame(f): 3:11pm On Oct 01, 2012 |
I wish somebody with knowledge could come and explain this Bible passage to satisfaction. As I said most men of God always give this passage a big miss because the violence is unexplainable and is totally contrary to what the behaviour or reaction of a man of God or prophet should be. Elisha is one of the prophets of God and we followers should take a cue from him,but is this the kind of behaviour we should exhibit as children of God? The atheists and free thinkers are having a field day on this thread,but where are the Christians? Please we need to debate this little but mighty passage in the Bible or is the threadf being deliberately ignored because they are as confused about it as I am? |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by EvilBrain1(m): 3:40pm On Oct 01, 2012 |
^^^^ Has it occurred to you that the atheists and freethinkers are the ones with knowledge? What can anyone possibly say to justify the brutal killing of 42 children? Some things are morally ambiguous, but I think.we can all agree that the mass slaughter of children is clearly wrong. |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by TheMadame(f): 4:08pm On Oct 01, 2012 |
^^ While the atheists and free thinkers may claim to have the knowledge,it is only fair and justified to hear from the Christians too! |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by Nobody: 4:11pm On Oct 01, 2012 |
TheMadame: ^^Madam, the Christians on Nl are battling over the tithe and trinity doctrines... Just chill, maybe one will come by soon...just hope it isnt buzugee/obadiah... by the way, ur answers are too mature, biko.... |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by TheMadame(f): 4:14pm On Oct 01, 2012 |
Thank you for the compliment sir Only seeking knowledge. |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by Nobody: 4:15pm On Oct 01, 2012 |
TheMadame: Thank you for the compliment sir. |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:49pm On Oct 01, 2012 |
TheMadame: Good day to all the knowledgeable people of the religious section.I do not know if this topic has been discussed before since I am new here.However I am a student of the Bible because it fascinates me a great deal.In fact I have read the book cover to cover a couple of times,however there is one passage that has always fascinated me and I have always wondered what this passage teaches us as students of the Bible or Christians? Here's an article that I posted elsewhere that puts it in perspective. Elisha’s Bears |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by TheMadame(f): 5:18pm On Oct 01, 2012 |
^^ Sir, Thank you for your insight,however what I discern from it is that mockery of any man of God equals a violent death of any kind. This to me can not be right. Our God is a kind,compassionate and loving God. This passage in the Bible is completely contrary to these attributes of my God. |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by Nobody: 5:26pm On Oct 01, 2012 |
TheMadame: ^^You see, not at all Madame, not at all.. God has always been that way.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgBxvoLFgWY |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by OLAADEGBU(m): 5:37pm On Oct 01, 2012 |
TheMadame: ^^ If you really know God you will realise that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. God is a loving God and He is equally a God of Justice. Read Hebrews 10:31 and 12:29 where you will see that our God is a consuming fire. |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by yemisolar(m): 7:16pm On Oct 01, 2012 |
TheMadame: ^^ Just as i said in my earlier post, this is not the right thing in the NT because if Jesus himself was in that position he wouldnt have done the same thing. On why pastors use it to intimidate people, it is either out of their own ignorance or they are preying on the ignorance of their members. it is totally WRONG as the wrath that should came upon all men has been put on Jesus. for instance 'touch not my annointed. . .. ' has been so much misquoted by men of God but the passage was actually talking about israelites an by extension every christian. The truth is christians should spend more time with the word than with their pastors and the Holy Spirit will reveal truths to them and they will be less intimidated by threats supposedly comimg from the bible. |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by TheMadame(f): 1:30am On Oct 02, 2012 |
@Yemi, Thank you for your contribution,which was illuminating,however I hope you are hot advocating that we should discard the Old testament of the Holy Bible because we have the New testament. I believe both parts of the Bible are suposed to compliment each other or what say you? |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by EvilBrain1(m): 2:25am On Oct 02, 2012 |
There was an early Christian bishop called Marcion of Sinope who was born around 85 A.D. about 50 years after the crucifixion supposedly took place. Back then, the basic Christian dogma and most of the beliefs we take for granted nowadays hadn't been defined yet. Most Christians back then didn't believe in the divinity of Christ, the new testament hadn't been compiled yet, and many of the books had probably not even been written. Anyway, Marcion studied the old testament and noticed that the behavior of Yahweh, the god of Israel didn't really match the heavenly father that Jesus spoke of. Jesus's heavenly father seemed to be a kind, merciful god who wanted to save mankind and wasn't too concerned with enforcing strict laws. On the other hand, the god of the old testament was a despotic, cruel, mass-murdering dictator who didn't hesitate to punish or kill people for breaking the tiniest rules even if they did it with good intentions. The old testament god was also partial to the Jews and extremely mean to everyone else. Marcion also wondered how evil came into the world? If god was all good, why did he create the devil and allow him to mess up the world? How could a good tree produce bad fruit? He eventually decided that the old testament god wasn't the same one as the heavenly father that Jesus prayed to. His theory was that even though Yahweh created the world he was at least partly evil and cruel. The heavenly father who is a more powerful god eventually took pity on mankind and decided to rescue us (including those being tortured in hell). He decided to send Jesus to save mankind, but Yahweh's supporters tried to stop this by killing him. Unfortunately, their plan backfired because Jesus's death was the price needed to ransom man from Yahweh's clutches. Note that Marcion didn't reject the old testament, he just said we should read it with the understanding that the god in it wasn't the same one Christians were now worshippping Marcion's theory is interesting in that it solves the "problem of evil" quite neatly. Unfortunately, the early church leaders didn't take kindly to it and they soon kicked the guy out of the church and declared him a heretic. His later on formed his own parallel church which eventually grew large enough to become orthodox Christianity's major rival for more than 2 centuries. Marcionism only died out then the orthodox Christianity became Rome's state religion and they started harassing and killing those they called "heretics". If emperor Constantine had chosen another religion, Christianity could have been completely different today. [url]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcion_of_Sinope[/url] |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by TheMadame(f): 10:08am On Oct 02, 2012 |
@Mr Evil Brain, Hmmm,interesting. I had never heard of Marcion and found his thoughts strange but interesting. So the God of the Old testament is a different God from the one in the New testament? Sir,could you please help us to cut and paste this article on Marcion so that it can form part of this thread, thank you in anticipation. |
Re: Elisha And The Little Children:what Does This Story Teach Us? by EvilBrain1(m): 12:55pm On Oct 02, 2012 |
^^^^ Done
[url]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcion_of_Sinope[/url] [url]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism[/url] |
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