I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant - Religion (2) - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant (3684 Views)
10 Ways Youths React When Their Pastors Say They Should Not Engage in Sex / Police Shut Enugu Church As Pastors, Supporters Engage In Free-for-all / Muslims If You Told A Christian This They Will Laugh At You (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (Reply) (Go Down)
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by F00028: 7:42pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
italo: ] The Quran encourages muslims to believe in the Bible. the Quran does no such thing. it confirms Jesus' prophethood and his message, "injeel" which is translated as gospel...of Jesus! there is nothing about the gospel according to mathew, luke etc. or acts, revelations, for that matter. |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by F00028: 7:43pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
italo: The Quran encourages muslims to believe in the Bible. the Quran does no such thing. it confirms Jesus' prophethood and his message, "injeel" which is translated as gospel...of Jesus! there is nothing about the gospel according to mathew, luke etc. or acts, revelations, for that matter. |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by italo: 12:45am On Oct 16, 2012 |
F00028: The Quran doesn't call it gospel of Jesus. It calls it "The Gospel." No manouvreing please. F00028: there is nothing about the gospel according to mathew, luke etc. or acts, revelations, for that matter. Those who follow the Messenger (Mohammed), the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them (7:157 MP). And when there cometh unto them (Jews) a Scripture (the Qur'an) from Allah, confirming that in their possession (2:89 MP). What are the "scriptures", "torah" and "gospel" that were "with them" and "in their possesion" at the time of Mohammed, if not the Bible? |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by trillville(m): 4:38am On Oct 16, 2012 |
Good day, pls I have a question for the Muslims in the house ISA (Jesus) was described by Mohammed as the "ruhilahi" ( mind my spelling). What is the meaning of ruhilahi? |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by tbaba1234: 5:21am On Oct 16, 2012 |
^That is incorrect.... Allah describes Issa (Peace and blessings of Allah be Upon him) as a word from Allah. Whenever Allah decrees a matter, all he says is "Be" and it is. Issa (Pbuh) is a manifestation of that word from Allah... Ruh is a difficult word to translate (there is no direct english equivalent) but all humans have the ruh which is given to us by Allah. The Ruh of all humans is from Allah. The conscience might be the closest thing in the english language. After the creation of humans, the ruh from Allah is put inside every single one of us. The Quran talks about the creation of Adam (peace and blessings be upon him) and Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) and how the ruh from Allah was put into them. The same happens to every human sometime after conception, a narration from the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) states that the ruh is put into the child after about 40 days after conception. (some scholars interpret it as 120 days) Ruhilahi means the ruh from Allah. It is not exclusive to anyone. |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by Nobody: 5:47am On Oct 16, 2012 |
tbaba1234: ^That is incorrect.... Keep lying for Arabic. You sir, with all due respects, are a black Arab slave. Seriously? It is either your Arabic is poor or you want to praise Arabic language. You can not explain "ruh" in English? If "chi" can be explained, why not Ruh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruh Keep lying for the Arabic language. |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by trillville(m): 6:00am On Oct 16, 2012 |
Thank you logicboy. Pls can a another Muslim help us out by confirming the Jesus (Issa) that is described as the ruh ilahi by Allah. Again is joseph the biological father of Jesus according to the Koran? |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by tbaba1234: 6:23am On Oct 16, 2012 |
Logicboy03: So wikipedia is where you get your translation for Ruh.... When we have classical arabic dictionaries... there are many words in the Arabic language that do not have direct english translations... I am sure there are some words in your local language that in their original context have no direct translation in English... It is the nature of language... Stop with this kind of Ignorance... |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by tbaba1234: 6:30am On Oct 16, 2012 |
trillville: Thank you logicboy. Pls can a another Muslim help us out by confirming the Jesus (Issa) that is described as the ruh ilahi by Allah. Logicboy did not help you with anything... He is arguing about translation when he doesn't even know the language... Your answer has been provided about the ruh... Jesus (peace be upon him) was born without a father by the decree of Allah.... The least you can do is read a translation of the Quran for yourself... Pdf copy: http://asadullahali.files./2010/09/the_quran.pdf |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by Nobody: 6:31am On Oct 16, 2012 |
tbaba1234: Who needs a direct translation when the word can be explained? Did I not mention explanation? "De ja vu" has no direct translation in English but it is explainable and has become a loaned/borrowed word from French. "Chi" is a chinese term meaning "life force". It has deeper meanings that can be explained in English but no direct translation. What is special about "ruh" then? Sorry, but you sound like someone that is ashamed of his own local language while glorifying a dead language- CLASSICAL Arabic |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by Nobody: 6:32am On Oct 16, 2012 |
tbaba1234: I didnt need to know the language to know that you were lying |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by tbaba1234: 6:33am On Oct 16, 2012 |
Logicboy03: I didnt need to know the language to know that you were lying Really??  |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by tbaba1234: 6:37am On Oct 16, 2012 |
Logicboy03: Which is exactly what i did, I explained without giving a direct translation.... I explained what the ruh is... Arabic still exists so i don't know which dead language you are talking about... Arabic is a second/third language to many muslims.... What's the bif? |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by Nobody: 7:00am On Oct 16, 2012 |
tbaba1234: You were acting like if "ruh" was something that non Arabic speakers could not understand. Translating "ruh" as "spirit" or "conscience" is good enough for a basic understanding. Apologists/liars like you hide behind a foreign language to escape the problems with your Quran. There is a verse that says a man can beat his wife. Apologists like you will say that the word for "beat" in Arabic has many different meanings so that you can try to escape wife beating in the Quran. Concerning Arabic, I am talking about classical Arabic, which is not the spoken language but standard Arabic or a local Arabic. Classical Arabic is dead just like Elizabethan English |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by tbaba1234: 7:17am On Oct 16, 2012 |
^ Oh boy!! This guy! I still don't get the purpose of your tirade... Personally, i am not convinced those translations do the word justice.. Even at that, I still made reference to 'conscience' in my previous post. So really, what is your problem? The problem with you is that there is no real attempt on your part to understand... It is people like you that quote half verses and present them as complete truths. Intellectual arrogance and dishonesty at its best. All languages go through changes and evolution... A dead language is one that does not exist. You can't pick a stage in the evolution of language and say that stage is dead... That makes no sense.. |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by Nobody: 7:43am On Oct 16, 2012 |
tbaba1234: ^ Oh boy!! This guy! Either you are saying that non-Arabic speaking muslims do not fully understand the Quran or you are lying. All of your majors scholar translate the verse in Surah 4 as "beat your wife". Either your scholars or translators are stupid or the Arabic langauge is stupid or the Quran says beat your wife. Popular books in the modern world are easily translated into millions of languages (albeit with footnotes) without problems. The quran is the exception. Kinda suspicious. Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.(Surah 4;34) You said that "conscience" is not good enough as a direct translation for "ruh". Please, dont try to lie. tbaba1234: Please, dont talk about evolution in any sense. As a theist, you are bound to fail by default Just as we dont have homo habilis anymore, we dont have Elizabethan english in spoken terms, same with classical arabic. No one speaks classical Arabic. Stop living in the past. |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by tbaba1234: 8:02am On Oct 16, 2012 |
Logicboy03: This will be my last response to you.. It is impossible to fully understand the Quran even for arabic speakers... So yes, non Arabic speakers do not fully understand the Quran... My response was on translation of 'ruh'. For the most part, you can only get a sense of the meaning in translation. A whole lot is lost in translation... For many words, you have to draw complete images to fully depict. Even for languages not as profound as the classical arabic, a lot is lost in translation... This is true for any language There are some decent translations, personally i like the one done by the Oxford press, i think it is probably the best translation to date. Pdf copy: http://asadullahali.files./2010/09/the_quran.pdf . I disagree with a few things but it is generally really good. The Quran in English and the Quran in Arabic is like comparing Ludo to PS3..... Worlds apart... You said that "conscience" is not good enough as a direct translation for "ruh". Please, dont try to lie. My personal conviction... |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by Nobody: 8:24am On Oct 16, 2012 |
Isnt this supposed to be a question and answer thread? Why is it degenerating into something else? Logicboy calm down, tbaba, either you admit you dont know the meaning or you tell us. Nothing less. More than half of the questions raised have not been answered. Hahahaha. I dont know if the Op thinks people here are gullible. I have questions to ask, but let's wait and see what he make of the already asked ones. |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by busybee24: 8:34am On Oct 16, 2012 |
Ok so the prophet married a girl at six but waited till she was nine to consumate the marriage. Roughly speaking he should have been in his fifties by then... how on earth is that justified? Why is it that when there any atrocious activities that occur you never hear alot of muslim scholars, imams , leaders or so on speak out with a united voice against such crimes? islam is by far the most restrictive when it comes to women rights so how can they claim a handle on giving women the most rights? why the constant need to fight for your God.. surely if he is God he cant be powerless . or even more baffling is the constant mayhem over the prophet.. why the perpetual rush to violence... is islam the only religion that has been mocked? is sharia law an adequate system in this present day and age |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by wiegraf: 8:45am On Oct 16, 2012 |
tbaba1234: Wonderful objective view you have here. Every single core idea you espouse seems to be subjective, and you expect others to respect that. The arrogance is ridiculous, while being hypocritical no less. You seem to enjoy the freedoms of the west without any cognitive dissonance, even suggesting 'muslim children' would be corrupted by learning evolution in western schools. Wth are they doing in inferior western schools then? What are you doing in the west? I envy your ability to LALALA. The blindness phenomenal. And you conveniently ignore the fact that your bros also have their own 'personal convictions'... I see, they are not 'true muslims'... Your personal convictions of course... |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by tbaba1234: 9:05am On Oct 16, 2012 |
wiegraf: Please where did i make this statement?? The least you can do is read properly... Where did i suggest that muslim children should not learn evolution? And you conveniently ignore the fact that your bros also have their own 'personal convictions'... I see, they are not 'true muslims'... Your personal convictions of course... I have never accused anyone of not been a true muslim... That is not my place... Your analogy is misplaced. We have classical explanations of the word and it simply does not fit. That is the basis of my conviction. I try to present my ideas in the clearest form possible, I do not expect everyone to agree with me. |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by Nobody: 9:08am On Oct 16, 2012 |
tbaba1234: the bolded is what always makes me wonder. I mean by implication if you are an English or an Edo man man you have to have a PHD in arabic language before you can fully comprehend the religion and if you cannot get that phd in arabic language you are then subjected to the personal interpretation of anyone who claims to have the full in depth of the arabic language and therefore you may get a corrupt version of the quran. By default only those who have an in depth knowledge of the arabic language can fully understand the quran and therefore only arabs can fully understand the quran. |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by Nobody: 9:11am On Oct 16, 2012 |
andromida: Gbam. Tbaba is eventually saying that he himself is quite ignorant about the Quran! |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by tbaba1234: 9:24am On Oct 16, 2012 |
andromida: The arabic language is integral because the Quran was revealed in Arabic. You can have translation but translations do not cut it. That is why Quranic translations come with commentaries/footnotes which guide the reader. At the end of the day, you are still dealing with a translation and plenty is lost in translation. The translations still serve a useful purpose because they give you the picture. That said, the basics of the religion are simple and straightforward... It is not rocket science... Worship Allah alone on his terms... |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by carefulme(m): 9:28am On Oct 16, 2012 |
Reyginus: Isnt this supposed to be a question and answer thread? Why is it degenerating into something else? I was almost sure that it wouldn't work before I opened the thread......... ..........now I am just alive around the corner following what I hoped....... ...........too many things to deal with....... ........we were not even done with the first claim before "too many other ones" started flying in the thread............ .........I promised not to respond to the post of others other than logic boy's and one other person's.......so u see I just broke that promise ..........now what I have is a thread with mumbled,incoherent and unrelated post....... ........but since this has generally been the atmosphere of nairaland.......no choice but to live with it......I go answer the above claims wey some people throw one by one.... I just wished there is a medium where limited number of people can talk and discuss while others "watch" "like" "follow" "etc"......but are not allowed to post...... ........then u can have a clean thread where A can talk, B gives the reply and C thinks B was wrong.... ........not the usual. A talks, B talks, Q interjects and M brings another post from another thread unrelated to the thread, W bumps in to comment on M unrelated post........and as R intends to respond to the first claim of A but his post would be 7 pages away from where the claim was made(even though he is allowed to quote, it still loses coherence and continuity and becomes messy as one would not expect to see the response to A in page 7 with irrelevant ones in between) ......and even those in the THREAD are lost........ .....and everything becomes inconclusive |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by Nobody: 9:29am On Oct 16, 2012 |
tbaba1234:  There you have it! Islam is an Arab religion. Foreign religion to Nigeria. If you dont understand Arabic as a muslim, you are a clueless slave. |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by tbaba1234: 9:29am On Oct 16, 2012 |
Logicboy03: Gbam. Tbaba is eventually saying that he himself is quite ignorant about the Quran! I am still a student of the book... I do not claim to be anything else. I have read the Quran in english... I am currently studying the whole of the Quran and i assure you, there is a world of difference... Translations are good and helpful but when you start really studying this book. It is mind-blowing stuff. |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by Nobody: 9:35am On Oct 16, 2012 |
carefulme: Sorry, people are fed up with the intolerance from the islamic section on Nairaland and the apologetics of islam that make no sense. I cant blame them for unleashing various criticisms of islam here. Now, even your first reply to my criticisms was a failure. You can not defend your religion logically. It ll boils down to "Allah said it and it is therefore right". One last thing. Id islam is truly tolerant, why is there an islamic section on Nairaland which is separate from the religion section? Why must islam be treated different from other religions? |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by Nobody: 9:37am On Oct 16, 2012 |
tbaba1234: Read up to surah 4 and threw the Quran into the bottom of my cupboard. Women deserve equal rights. However, from talking to you, you have no shame because you fully believe that men are better and the guardian of women. Just like a kkk would laugh when told that blacks and whites are equal human beings |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by tbaba1234: 9:43am On Oct 16, 2012 |
Logicboy03: Read up to surah 4 and threw the Quran into the bottom of my cupboard. Husbands and fathers maintain and protect their mothers, sisters and wives. It doesn't make them better. They are naturally physically stronger and are best placed to serve that role... Funny enough, that is one of my best surahs from my studies... It is just incredible... |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by wiegraf: 9:54am On Oct 16, 2012 |
tbaba1234: Heh heh with the read thing, you never tire of that? You may or may not notice I read most of what I can that is relevant. See the comment from andromida and try and comprehend just how illogical your demands people go over your subjective posts, about matters arbitrarily translated seemingly by every muslim, are. Literature, a subjective pursuit by its very nature, and you expect people to receive it objectively? www.nairaland.com/1068269/islamic-civilisation-islamic-law-reforming And I cannot link properly, but I refer you to your comments at 11:25, and I quote tbaba1234: Note the bolded in particular. Or is english as ambiguous as ancient arabic? tbaba1234: What analogy? So the fanatics and their interpretions are muslims? That's nice to know. Like those who translate anyone practicing his freedom (again, freedoms you seem to enjoy) to choose his religion as kaffir, to be stoned to death, or whatever grisly punishment sharia mandates. The suicide bombers, woman subjugators are all normal muslims? That's nice to know. All these guys fumbling over interpretions like you do http://m.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/jan/12/books.guardianreview5?cat=books&type=article One of them even states that in heaven, erections never wane, ultimate pleasure gained that way. Those are his 'personal convictions' by the way. tbaba1234: You might not expect everyone to agree with you, but you clearly believe your ideas are 'truth' and law. Espousing sharia, which vastly limits the freedoms of humanity in any translation, as law. Agree or not with you, you would enforce your law on others if you could, with all its revolting abuse of human rights. |
| Re: I Only Want To Engage Two Non Muslims If Only They Would Be Compliant by carefulme(m): 9:57am On Oct 16, 2012 |
Logicboy03: No I am not sure ........but before I continue, I need u to answer some questions...... .......some academic scholarships of some countries are meant for only citizens of that countries and there are of course international scholarship for students of other countries.... Q1 why do u think this is so......... Q2 Do u say such countries are racial for not giving a common ground to every students..... Q3 don't u think it's too much of them to think of their own citizens as best qualified for some scholarships. Even though there may be students of better academic excellence from among other countries, making them better suited for such awards? |
The Sixth And Seventh Book Of Moses / List Of End Of The World Predictions In The Last Two Centuries Alone / Woman Assaults Disabled Man For Not Believing In God (Photo)
(Go Up)
| Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 109 |