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Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by Nobody: 6:57pm On Dec 28, 2012 |
Uyi Iredia:You're simply making my case my friend. We've insufficient knowledge to determine how our universe began. As a Christian, you make up for that by believing in whatever that Bible of yours says. I'd give you an example. I tell you there's a number 2. You may choose to believe that the number 2 didn't just come about, but that it's a solution to a problem, probably 4-2. Someone else may agree, but would think the problem was square root of 4. The atheist believes there was no problem in the first place. The agnostic says there's not sufficient evidence that there was a problem or not. Uyi Iredia:I am. I'm simply pointing out how much knowledge you lack to infer any absolutes that should be taken seriously. Agnostics take a honest standpoint. We do not know, but we're open to 'all' knowledge. We're ready to investigate all possibilities, yes even the possibility of a god. Follow my posts. I keep making this point. Uyi Iredia:Would you care to share what common characteristics these Gods share? Uyi Iredia:Funny guy. Whatever makes you feel more comfortable in the presence of the Lord. |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by Nobody: 6:58pm On Dec 28, 2012 |
Dp |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by UyiIredia(m): 9:01pm On Dec 28, 2012 |
musKeeto: *1 I don't see how your reply is germane to what I stated. You asked why there must be a God. I gave a reply pertaining to Nature and now you go of on some tangent about the universe beginning. Please give a relevant reply. *2 So your way of pointing that out wqas by saying that animals may believe men created them. On what basis do you even say we don't have enough info. Becayse I can't take you seriously if you have none. *3 I have pointed out one. They are creators of the universe. *4 Funny fellow. Wallow in your atheism whilst dubbing yourself agnostic. |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by Yewe2011(m): 9:27pm On Dec 28, 2012 |
it's a very thin line no need to get annoyed |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by Yewe2011(m): 9:27pm On Dec 28, 2012 |
most agnostics are like soft core atheists atheists are like hard core agnostics that's one way to look at it |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by Nobody: 9:50pm On Dec 28, 2012 |
Uyi Iredia:Smh. You're going the Anony route. Question: How much do you know of our universe? On a scale of 1 - infinity.. |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by UyiIredia(m): 10:36pm On Dec 28, 2012 |
musKeeto: And you are toeing the argument from ignorance fallacy. What matters isn't what we don't know but what we do know. Because we build on what we know in order to know more. In any case on that scale lemme take a 1000. |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by Nobody: 10:43pm On Dec 28, 2012 |
Uyi Iredia:On a scale of 1-infinity, you picked a thousand. I hope you understand the Agnostic's point of view: we don't know enough to make any final conclusions. This is being honest in my opinion. Do we hold beliefs in any God? No Do we think God exists? Maybe, maybe not. |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by UyiIredia(m): 10:20am On Dec 29, 2012 |
musKeeto: You don't hold any beliefs in God you are an atheist. I say we know enough to conclude. |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by Nobody: 8:09pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
Uyi is 100% correct. |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 8:31pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
Is there an Atheist-Agnostic position i.e Atheist - disbelief in the existence of God(s) and Agnostic - I am skeptical because I don't know or I am not sure. No Atheist can prove that God does not exist due to the nature of evidence available (unavailable) hence the disbelief but that gap presents an agnostic position as well.. what do you say |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by UyiIredia(m): 9:01pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
lagerwhenindoubt: Is there an Atheist-Agnostic position i.e Atheist - disbelief in the existence of God(s) and Agnostic - I am skeptical because I don't know or I am not sure. Agnosticism is actually an epistemological stance. One can be agnostic about other things apart from God\s existence. However in the case of God's existence_as I've said_ I find agnosticism fraudulent because all agostics posses a disbelief in God while claiming a neutral stance which very clearly isn't the case. It seems to me like they say: 'We don't whether or not there is a god but I think there is no God.' 1 Like |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 9:11pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
Uyi Iredia: y'know you have a point. I was in that phase at some point during my personal "de-conversion" I do believe it smacks of ignorant dishonesty to claim not to know the level of disbelief enough to form an Atheist position. you either disbelieve or you don't |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by Nobody: 9:24pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
There certainly is a source of life but not from Yahweh. Yahweh is only a manipulator! the source is pure undiluted LOVE. That is the source we are all from. This is part of the teachings of the agnostics. What ever you do in this life determines the next. The teachings of jesus was about liberation and empowerment of oneself,not to worship him,but to be like him! |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by Kay17: 10:34pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
^^ I don't understand why the source of all life has to be love? |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by 401kk: 10:54pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
There is a difference in atheism and agnosticism, but they are not mutally exclusive concepts... they simply address two different concepts. Where agnosticism addresses knowledge, atheism addresses belief. Agnosticism is the philosophy that the existence of a god or gods is something that is not known, cannot be known, or is inherently unknowable. Atheism is, as you said, a lack of belief in any god. So, an agnostic atheist might say, "No, I don't "know" for sure that there is no god, but being that there is no evidence, I see no reason to believe." An agnostic can also be a theist in the same way. Agnosticism doesn't stand alone as a position on the spectrum of belief, in my opinion, though some people seem intent on making that so. Some dictionaries even define it as "neither believing nor disbelieving". If one actually stops to think about this, one will see it's impossible. Just as you either know something or you don't, you either believe or you don't. There's no such thing as neither knowing nor not knowing, and there's no such thing as neither believing nor disbelieving, either. The "neither believe nor disbelieve" thing doesn't even fit in with the etymology of the word, which is "a" meaning without and "gnostic" meaning knowledge. Agnosticism has been, from its conception, a philosophy concerning knowledge, not belief. |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by daryoor(m): 8:55am On Jan 03, 2013 |
401kk: There is a difference in atheism andYour write up is really commendable, especially the agnostic-atheist/theist part. But someone can actually neither disbelieve nor belief, especially when something is confusing, knowledge and belief are not thesame but they are related, for me, it depends on my chain of thought. |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by yadirichukwu: 9:56am On Jan 12, 2013 |
hello |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by Nobody: 10:04am On Jan 12, 2013 |
Difference bt an unbeliever and an atheist.... For me, agnosticism is a cross. I don't believe in your God, doesn't mean I don't believe a 'creator' doesn't exist... There is always space for doubt. That's why we are humans... |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by Obi1kenobi(m): 12:40am On Jan 17, 2013 |
lagerwhenindoubt: The bolded is an ignorant load of drivel. You'd be laughed off in a scholarly debate for that garbage you're spewing. Apparently, you must either worship or denounce god(s) with religious fervour so that some bigotted no-marks won't call you a fraud. |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 3:05pm On Jan 17, 2013 |
Obi1kenobi: So Obiwan.. you claim in absolute exactitude to believe or dis-believe? you can actually prove it with the completeness you claim above.. so there is no I don't have enough information to dis-believe or believe .. well we have a Nobel candidate right there and why would bigots be of concern to moi? or my opinions? |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by elliottibanga(m): 3:48pm On Jan 17, 2013 |
What is the opposite of belief? Some may arrogantly say Disbelief. But Disbelief in itself is a form of belief. It is too absolute. I am mindful of any belief structure that claims to explain everything about everything. The opposite of belief should be doubt or Skepticism and as an agnostic, I pride myself in the fact that I question, examine and constantly review all facts that are put forward, no matter who puts forward those facts. Not all atheists are truthful and not all theists are fraudulent. 3 Likes |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by Kay17: 4:35pm On Jan 17, 2013 |
I will like to avert your mind to the fact that atheism applys to those who show zero interest about God. E.G Buddhists. Certainty/Doubt Belief/disbelief |
Re: Agnosticism Not Atheism by okeyxyz(m): 5:52pm On Jan 18, 2013 |
elliottibanga: What is the opposite of belief? There really is no opposite of belief. You either believe in one set of knowledge or you believe in an opposing set of knowledge. Atheism is a belief in no-god, agnosticism is a belief in the unknowable. Hell!! Intelligence itself is a belief. They only entities without belief are entities without life. |
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