One needs to appreciate how character is formed and how a productive life is shaped. So much has to do with family upbringing--the values, modeling of right living and respectful relationships, the nurturing of healthy self-esteem, and high expectations of each other among family members. Without these basics in place, lives can zip off into many unproductive and harmful directions. Unfortunately, I have realised that people's self esteem are destroyed from childhood.

Have you ever compared a typical 10 year old american to a typical 10 year old in nigeria?

You are resticted from taking part in life changing decisions, can't even voice your opinion cos the so-called elders are speaking, u are smacked and beating like an animal all in the name of discipline. Furthermore, U are made to serve your elder brothers and sisters. You are basically being trained to "shut up", these ridiculous "values" make u believe that what ever happens to u in life is already preset, "the kadara bullcrap"

About which child r u talking in ur last lines? Am just curious cos am just working on a talk about this topic for school. I didn't really get which child u lately described, the american one or the nigerian one?

I can't say unless i come visiting to Nigeria at my own eyes to taste my own experiences.

In my opinion, i think it is either less or more equally among those 10 yr old American child and 10 yr old Nigerian child talking about low-esteem as well as discipline with their abusive parents in either poverty or under pressured working class even wealthy ones too.

It's really sad is it not. Last year my cousins kids spent their summer in atlanta with my mom (They live in Nigeria). We were watching a movie and my niece gave an opinion which I thought interesting. Before I could even respond my mother yelled at her to shut up. My sister and I turned to my mom and let her have it.

On another occassion when I visited Nigeria in 2003, my aunty(this same cousins mom) was with me and we were going from enugu to onitsha. We had my other cousin in the car(about 12 years old at the time) trying to give directions becasue the driver ofcourse was not familiar with the roads or lack thereof in Onitsha. This poor child kept saying uncle go this was. Na lie o. My Aunty told her to be quiet. I'm like mummy (my aunty), she knows the way now, she grew up here. If not for that little discussion I had with her, she was ready to pay a motorcyle man to drive ahead of us to my cousins house. Meanwhile after my aunty cooled down my cousin took us right to the house.

There is just this thing with the older folks that it is the best interest of the everybody if the children do not learn too much. I am certainly not using that approach with my kids. They will have no problem speaking their opinions. I will encourage them to.

MP007:

Have you ever compared a typical 10 year old american to a typical 10 year old in nigeria?

You are resticted from taking part in life changing decisions, can't even voice your opinion because the so-called elders are speaking, u are smacked and beating like an animal all in the name of discipline. Furthermore, You are made to serve your elder brothers and sisters. You are basically being trained to "shut up", these ridiculous "values" make u believe that what ever happens to u in life is already preset, "the kadara bullcrap"

that is the part that ticks me off!

It is all about control which they have no business having at all. Most Nigerian adults are just too abusive to kids. And they would be the first to shout "African" values.

What a shame. Small wonder why we have so many short fuses on nairaland. You are a product of your environment. You cannot even make a simple comment here without receiving insults from ill brought up twits and twats! What they learned from thier uncouth parents of course.

Go figure!

almondjoy:

It is all about control which they have no business having at all. Most Nigerian adults are just too abusive to kids. And they would be the first to shout "African" values.

What a shame. Small wonder why we have so many short fuses on nairaland. You are a product of your environment. You cannot even make a simple comment here without receiving insults from ill brought up twits and twats! What they learned from their uncouth parents of course.

Go figure!

exactly, "who ever curses most wins, intimation etc",

almondjoy:

It is all about control which they have no business having at all. Most Nigerian adults are just too abusive to kids. And they would be the first to shout "African" values.

What a shame. Small wonder why we have so many short fuses on nairaland. You are a product of your environment. You cannot even make a simple comment here without receiving insults from ill brought up twits and twats! What they learned from their uncouth parents of course.

Go figure!

Make sense!!!

This is a very interesting topic.
I hear what you are saying about self esteem,but surely if the nigerian 10 year old were so down trodden they could not then grow up to be a dominant adult.
We are a product of our environment for sure. I live in the Uk, and our culture is not dissimilar to the US where children's rights are very much taken care of.I have seen the difference in the 10 year old Nigerian and the 10 year old English child and I have to say that it was a pleasant change to be around a child who was respectful,polite and who BEHAVED like a child and not a mini adult!
I work in a school with 11-16 year olds who will think nothing of telling a teacher to shut up to their face,or will refuse to stop using their mobile phone in class.
These children will interupt two adults who are having a conversation and EXPECT to be heard! It is wrong and we are paying the price.
I have come to believe that children here should again be beaten in school as punishment for their wrong doing.
It seems to be just the UK and US who have this wide spread problem with children being disrespectful. In other cultures for example Asian or West Indian,children are brought up in a similar way to Nigerian children.
I believe that if ALL children are treated the same all of the time then their self esteem will not damaged.If all children expect to be beaten for being rude etc then they have nothing to compare and complain about.
In England you are not ALLOWED to beat your own child,and if you do they can report you to the police,can you believe that?!Children have too many rights here and they know it which is why in the UK children rule the roost and the streets terrorising older people.Ofcourse not all children here behave like that,but I can guarantee the ones who know how to behave are being brought up with strict morals and know their place.
That does not mean I agree with cruelty or beating for the sake of it.
Children should be happy and loved to make them decent human beings,but they also need to learn to be respectful of their elders,who were after all, children themselves once.

@yvskc,

I feel you my sister. Even though some Nigerian parents blatantly abuse their kids, I think the UK system is just hopeless. I grew up in Nigeria, and my parents never told us to "shut up", while expressing our views. My mom in particular enjoyed hearing ALL we had to say about anything. My dad encouraged debates, and I started debating with when I was around twelve. Till this day, we still talk freely like men. The concept of seniority was firmly ingrained in us, but not without the freedom to express your views. When I was six, my brother (he was eight) lied that I did something I did not do. I vigorously defended myself and my dad flogged him with utali - served him right. I asked all sorts of questions of my parents, and they gave me all sorts of answers, including "your younger brother came out of mummy's belly because of all the food mummy ate" . But never a "shut up". That attitude helped a lot because it made me ask a lot of questions at school, and engage teachers in arguments/debates if I wasn't satisfied. My parents are proud of how they raised all their kids.

My point is that, the Nigerian system allows the parents to freely choose how they want to raise their kids, and that's fine, as long as they love their kids, an assumption which is not far-fetched.

I have come to believe that children here should again be beaten in school as punishment for their wrong doing.
It seems to be just the UK and US who have this wide spread problem with children being disrespectful. In other cultures for example Asian or West Indian,children are brought up in a similar way to Nigerian children.
I believe that if ALL children are treated the same all of the time then their self esteem will not damaged.If all children expect to be beaten for being rude etc then they have nothing to compare and complain about.
In England you are not ALLOWED to beat your own child,and if you do they can report you to the police,can you believe that?!Children have too many rights here and they know it which is why in the UK children rule the roost and the streets

what a big suprise

yvskc:

In England you are not ALLOWED to beat your own child,and if you do they can report you to the police,can you believe that?!Children have too many rights here and they know it which is why in the UK children rule the roost and the streets terrorising older people.

mamaput:

what a big suprise

@all

Same apply to the USA, parent ARE NOT ALLOWED to beat up their own child. A child has the rights calling to the police and Children Custody Service putting parent in jail and putting a child in a state foster system if it is minor.

Even at child's school in the USA, teacher sees child lot of black-eyes or untreated broken arms/legs or too many bruises, therefore; teacher has the rights to call CHILD ABUSE report that leads police arresting parent, too.

Its very hard sha cause the way w have been brought up is one way and the way a child thats born abroad behaves is totally different.

Its hard cause you just have to meet half way, not allowing the child to be too liberal but not bullying the child when they voice out an opinion.

thereare far More many ways of bringing up your child apart from beating.
no government forbids punishments

almondjoy:

It is all about control which they have no business having at all. Most Nigerian adults are just too abusive to kids. And they would be the first to shout "African" values.

What a shame. Small wonder why we have so many short fuses on nairaland. You are a product of your environment. You cannot even make a simple comment here without receiving insults from ill brought up twits and twats! What they learned from their uncouth parents of course.

Go figure!

couldn't have said it any better!

Most Nigerians are sadists. I am a living proof!

thank God For Moderation!

@Michelin
Sorry for your experiences

but not evryone has a similar story

Gamine:


@Michelin
Sorry for your experiences

but not evryone has a similar story

What experience? Don't refer to me as a victim. I find it offensive. I am a survivor and a very active one. I am no passive doormat.

michelin89:

Most Nigerians are sadists. I am a living proof!

I think u need to get an ice pack and lie down.

Chacal are u going to come to yahoo to tell me craps like the other time?

michelin89:

Most Nigerians are sadists. I am a living proof!

lol . . . is it that bad?

@ michelin89,

What in the name of ZEUS are u talking about?
How can u generalise that most Nigerians are sadists?
Do u smoke shroomz?

Busta:

lol . . . is it that bad?

Not really. Always better than being a masochist. 

Chacal:

@ michelin89,

What in the name of ZEUS are u talking about?
How can u generalise that most Nigerians are sadists?
Do u smoke shroomz?

Zeus? I can see u respect the commandment: Don't call my name in vain. Good xtian boy.

Back to your question: no, I don't smoke simply because I don't think I need it to get high.

Mine is just an opinion which can be confirmed with so many cases. This thread confirms it-which parent would inflict such pain on a child without getting pleasure from it? Maybe they think it's just physical and that he'll recover from the wounds, but believe me physical abuse from someone so close to you can cause serious damages to a child: s/he grows up to think violence is always the right solution.

Can't you see, this mentality is sick?

adeboo:

Its very hard sha cause the way w have been brought up is one way and the way a child thats born abroad behaves is totally different.

Its hard cause you just have to meet half way, not allowing the child to be too liberal but not bullying the child when they voice out an opinion.

you're exactly right. its not only nigerians but other africans as well. I'm not trying to say that african parents are bad cuz they're not but sometimes they try to use their african mentality on us when we have maybe an american/british or whatever mentality. like for someone is was born and raised in america may not understand their parents point of view because they're in contact with americans mostly, whether in school, work, at stores, and on the street and the only african contact they have is at home. also an african child may look or feel like they have low self esteem not because he/she feels they are "abused" but because a lot of parents dont' teach their children about their culture at an early age so they would not know how to defend themselves if someone, maybe at school, was to look down on them.

Not everyone was beaten/punished to the point of abuse

I was beaten for disobedience, but always in the same measure as the offence. . .I still remember the worst flogging I got in my life, for throwing stones over the fence and breaking a neighbor's windshield. After the beating, my mom told me to go take a shower, then sat me close to her and explained that she still loved me.

Not everyone is subject to physical abuse when being brought up. My parents imbibed a strong sense of self-esteem in me, but did not hesitate to discipline me when it was needed, through punishment/flogging or otherwise as they deemed fit.

Some parents take things too far, and generally may have been products of poor upbringing themselves, or the general frustration/difficulties of life in Nigeria is being transferred and inflicted on some children.

@ michelin

as you have your examples, I have mine too. . .which confirm that 'most' ( I don't know what census/survey you did) Nigerians are NOT sadists.

I disliked the punishment I received many times from my folks and even hated them a bit at times, but what kid doesn't go through that at some point? When we grow older we realise some things were for our own good.

I am not advocating corporal punishment, and there are many excesses in Nigerian families, but by and large the methods used by our parents are sound in principle. Application of these methods need to be supervised by appropriate authorities to ensure that the line of abuse is not crossed

@ michelin89,

What happened to SPARE THE ROD, SPOIL THE CHILD??
Now don't get me wrong, i am not a party to the Kinta Kinte kind of thrashing but these kids need to be dealt with and sometimes u need to whup 'em.

Look at the present generation of kids(mostly in US & UK) termed the LOST GENERATION by a London journalist.
You see the worst stereotype these days. . . . Drugs, Guns, Knives, Binge Drinking, Violence, Thuggery, Gangs etc.
They get into these vices because there was no discipline from the scratch. . . . . .  .
UK has the worst teenage pregnancy rate in the whole world . . . If those gals were getting the cane, they would know better.

Compare them to Nigerian teenagers and u will know there is a wide gulf between their morale.
It is very common to see UK teenagers bringing their boy/fs to sleep over under her parent's roof!!!!!!!!!
Blimey . . . . not even female 28 year olds can try that in Nigeria without getting crushed with BACKHAND slaps.
Kids need to be trained properly. . . . .It helps.

@ Debosky,

I dont need to be a Quantum Physicist to know u was a stubborn kid.
Throwing stones over the fence? Were u a cricket fan then?
Your mum should have nailed u to a cross with a label that reads NINNY swinging on your long neck.

@ Chacal & Debosky

I don't like this anti-Michelin committee.

@ Topic

All the same, violence is not the solution. They should rather work on psychology or on the body. If a child wants to go bad, s/he go bad with or without the cain so beating doesn't guarantee anything.

We have ghettos like Ajegunle but i guess those people didn't get beaten when they were small, right?

Everytime you try to compare Nigeria with other countries, never involve moral. Children don't act they way others do because of fear and not because of respect. I wonder why u can't distinguish between the two.

If I have decided to avoid certain behaviour, it's not because I think of my mother's beating but simply because I have understood the reason why such thing isn't good for me. Some parents just beat and beat but never tell the kids why they are being beaten assuming children are omniscient. On one hand they want children to be not so smart, on the other they want them to understand things even adults haven't understood.

I never think of morality when Nigeria is mentioned.

Everytime you try to compare Nigeria with other countries, never involve moral. Children don't act they way others do because of fear and not because of respect.

I understand your point but to say the there's no connection between Nigeria and morality or whatever term you use is wrong because Nigerians do have morals atlease the majority. A country like the us has none that's why children are disrespectful and their parents are there backing up their stupity. i have not seen a nigerian parent back up their child because they were bad. its not because they dont love them but they are teaching them right from wrong.

@ michelin89,

Anti-michelin committee? Nah!!!!
I like michelin tyres.

If a child wants to go bad . . .The constant fear of the cane keeps him/her in check.
Kids that get caned are more likely to behave themselves more than the free for all kids, no question about it.
I understand the clear and concise difference between FEAR and RESPECT . . .
No one is advocating for CLUBBING TO DEATH method. . . .
Like Debosky said, the child must be made to understand why he was caned so that he/she will not err again.

@ naija_diva,

I agree with u.
Honestly, i never knew Naija kids have morals/scruples until i met their contemporaries abroad.
These kids have no regards for their parents or authorities. . . . They beat their teachers, spit on em and all various kinda nasty behaviour.
Are teachers allowed to touch these kids? NO!!!!!!!
Its just pathetic!

While I do agree that the moral values have drastically declined over the past 20 years, I am however against flogging and any other form of corporal punishment.  My Mother whipped me ( thank God for my daddy), as if it was going out of style.  Yes I grew up to be a decent woman, however, I do not attribute my outcome to those whippings.

While she spent hours exercising the whip and her arms, my father spent a few mins explaining things to me.  Thanks to his method, I am who I am.   My sisters and I therefore made a vow that since our Mom  whipped us so much, we would NEVER whip our children.  We took enough for them and their children to come.

To  those who believe in beating as a form of punishment, more power to you.  To each its own, I won't be flogging mine and you can take that to the bank and expect interest , 

Your mother needs to be punished for what she did to you ladies. And your father for allowing it.
If i marry a lady that believes in child abuse (impossible!), I'll do all I can to protect my children from her.

@ Islander,

We shall reverse the roles.
Lemme do the beating . . . .U can do the talking/explanations.
I am licking ma lips already.