God, Evil And The Epicurean Question - Religion - Nairaland
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| God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by therationa(m): 11:09am On Feb 11, 2008 |
What do forum members think about this aphorism from Epicurus (341BC - 270 BC)? "Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" This is usually formally stated as the problem of evil. Basically, how can the existence of evil be reconcile with a good God? |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by Nobody: 11:41am On Feb 11, 2008 |
therationa: What if He is always drawing greater good out of evil. What will that make Him  |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by chychy(f): 2:53pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
imhotep: You could not have said it better. Look at the book of Job for instance. I do not think anything happens by accident, evil in the world means that we must always make choices. In d midst of all d evil and suffering, u still have 2 choose where u want to be. Imagine an evil free world, would we need God? Nope. If everythin was made easy, would we need him? i don't think so. |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by Seun(m): 2:56pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
There's no greater good in the book of Job. His innocent children who were killed did not come back to life. Ask a parent who has lost a child: having a new child does not wipe away your loss and grief! Otherwise, parents who have lost children will have no reason to grieve. Do you understand? |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by chychy(f): 3:18pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
Seun, i can't dispute that. but that is why He's God. More like a puppet master who pulls d strings. All i know is that what does not kill us makes us stronger. I have my moments of doubt. But we all have 2 remember that He loves us and that is all that matters; in joy, pain, sorrow and heartbreak. Apart from God, who will u turn 2? it's His turf. |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by bawomolo(m): 3:23pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
Seun, i can't dispute that. but that is why He's God. More like a puppet master who pulls d strings the difference is that, God isn't supposed to be a puppet master. puppet masters do not care about the state of their puppets while God is supposed to love us like his children according to the possible. the new testament claims he is the God of peace. why permit such evil then.?? All i know is that what does not kill us makes us stronger. it did kill the children of job and the catholics tutsi's of Rwanda. how stronger are they. Apart from God, who will u turn 2? it's His turf. it's ur freewill to decide what or who u will turn to in times of need. |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by chychy(f): 3:34pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
Do not get me wrong oh. God loves each and everyone of us. sometimes asking questions will get us no where. But one thing i can never doubt is His unconditional love 4 me. |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by Nobody: 3:39pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
Seun: If Job's children 'died' and went to be with God in heaven, is that a bad thing? Remember that God is a God of the living. |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by jagunlabi(m): 3:45pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
With this sort of thinking,all those religious terrorists doing the will of god by blowing themselves and innocent folks up will also end up in heaven.Afterall they are doing it for their god. Sick and perverse way of thinking.I guess chrisitan and a great one way of thinking aren't that different,afterall. imhotep: |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by Nobody: 3:47pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
jagunlabi: Religious terrorists are doing their own will - and they strongly believe it is the will of God. They are deluded murderers. The death of innocents is painful, and something nobody has been able to prevent. You may also recall the death of the innocent Christ. God business is that of drawing greater good out of evil. |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by Nobody: 3:49pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
Quotable quote: "If humanism were right in declaring that man is born to be happy, he would not be born to die. Since his body is doomed to die, his task on earth evidently must be of a more spiritual nature. It cannot unrestrained enjoyment of everyday life. It cannot be the search for the best ways to obtain material goods and then cheerfully get the most out of them. It has to be the fulfillment of a permanent, earnest duty so that one's life journey may become an experience of moral growth, so that one may leave life a better human being than one started it. It is imperative to review the table of widespread human values. Its present incorrectness is astounding." ---Alexander Solzhenitsyn |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by chychy(f): 4:00pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
We are mere mortals and do not look @ d bigger picture. The pain of loss and separation is so much sometimes that we 4get to take solace in God and look @ d bigger picture. He is in control and will only take control if we let Him in and listen. Evil exists but He will not give us what we cannot handle. His grace is sufficient 4 us. |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by goodguy(m): 4:07pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
imhotep: The question is: Why should evil exist in the first place? |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by bawomolo(m): 4:14pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
We are mere mortals and do not look @ d bigger picture. no there's no bigger picture, a "merciful" God wouldn't condone the murder of kids. He is in control and will only take control if we let Him in and listen. the abrahamaic God takes control regardless of whether we listen or not. his power isn't infinite if we can stop his control. Evil exists but He will not give us what we cannot handle. yeah the jews sure could handle Hitlers fury. His grace is sufficient 4 us. his grace should be able to shield his "children" from evil |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by Nobody: 4:19pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
goodguy: A book discusses the problem of good and evil and their reconciliation in Christ (the Innocent, Suffering Servant). The title is 'Smouldering Fire: the work of the Holy Spirit' by Martin Israel I suggest you meditate on the book. Click here for online copy http://www.martinisrael.u-net.com/fire/index.html No matter how much you grumble about evil, you still have to live with it. No matter how much you grumble about God, He exists and is the owner of the Universe. |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by goodguy(m): 4:28pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
I don't have the time and patience to go through all that. Do you mind giving me a summary? |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by DChair: 4:34pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
All i can say here is, let us be very careful the way we View JEHOVAH. The devil is at work and he will use anything to muddle up ones brain. Dont let your blessings be disturbed with what you view about God Almighty. Once again becareful. |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by chychy(f): 4:42pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
thanx a lot D-Chair. I'lll bear that in mind. |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by Nobody: 4:43pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
Saint Augustine would have said: "Evil doesn't exist as it's an absence of good. Hence evil can be seen as the remaining part to get to the highest good which is God. If evil existed then good wouldn't be real good because the real good can't be corrupt." |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by JeSoul(f): 5:02pm On Feb 11, 2008 |
The question of suffering vs. a good God is an age-old question and no one has all the answers, but for those accusing God you must remember that if He were to never permit evil, it would mean He would control everything you do and say, you would have no free-will whatsoever, you would be a zombie and God has no desire in creating zombies but people who choose to do good. If we didn't have evil we would not know what was good. and Seun asked what could have possible been good about Jobs children dying. If there's anything we learn in Job, it's that we humans do not know the whole story . Job had no idea what was happening behind the scenes or else he might have understood what his suffering was for and hence never questioned it. But you all need to know suffering and death is not always a bad thing! To be absent from the body is to be present with God! which is by far better! (for the christians that is) Death can release a person from present pain, or if God has seen that in the future you could be lost or suffer greatly He might permit your death. Psalm 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints See the story of Hezekiah 2 kings: God told him he was going to die, Hezekiah prayed and asked for more years. God gave it to him and what did he do with those "extra" years? he sinned badly! and would have been better off if he'd died and left his legacy intact and void of mistakes. and we christians know that it is not about us humans! it never has been. It's all about God and His name being glorified. And if His name will be glorified thru ur suffering or your death or your pain - so be it! because we already know "our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all"(@ cor 4:17) So you all must understand suffering, pain and death only makes sense when you know and understand God and that it is 100% of the time for your own good, and indeed a priviledge as long as you're a christian who is trusting and hoping in Christ. Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake. "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4). |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by chychy(f): 1:16pm On Feb 13, 2008 |
@ Jesoul Very insightful of u and helpful 2. So you all must understand suffering, pain and death only makes sense when you know and understand God and that it is 100% of the time for your own good, and indeed a priviledge as long as you're a christian who is trusting and hoping in Christ. Philippians 1:29 |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by Nobody: 4:18pm On Feb 13, 2008 |
How can evil exist in a world created by a perfect good being who can't create anything that isn't good? The more you insist evil is an entity of its own, the more you enforce the idea that your god isn't the perfect being. For him to be perfect, there should be nothing like evil. |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by JeSoul(f): 5:27pm On Feb 13, 2008 |
chychy: I'm glad someone benefitted from it my dear sister!  michelin89:The answer to your question is very easy michelin and it is found in Ecclesiastes 7:29 "This only have I found: God made mankind upright, but men have gone in search of many schemes." God created everything good, everything perfect in its original form Because of Adam's disobedience in the garden of eden that's when sin entered the world thru man and messed everything up! This should clear up your queries. |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by Nobody: 3:37pm On Feb 14, 2008 |
@ JeSoul That reason is too elementary and easily tracked down. Look for a stronger one! |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by JeSoul(f): 3:41pm On Feb 14, 2008 |
michelin89: I'm not sure I understand what more you're asking for? care to explain? |
| Re: God, Evil And The Epicurean Question by justcool(m): 8:47pm On Feb 15, 2008 |
The Truth of the matter is that God did not create evil. Man by his nature has the gift of free will which if used rightly will always result in happiness; however, man sometimes uses this gift wrongly -- by making wrong choice's, and bringing harm to his fellow creatures. The result of this wrong use of the free will is evil. Newton observed that action and reaction are equal-- Newtons third law of motion. This law works in all areas of life, in our thoughts, words and doings. When we do wrong to others the reaction is that we will reap evil, ie we will receive a worst treatment letter. This is action and reaction. "You reap what you sow." This is a beautiful law made by God to help all creatures. But man used his free will wrongly and the reaction of this is that man receives evil. Imagine what the world would have been if man (we humans) had not always chosen wrongly. God being perfect cannot change his laws just for one creature(man). This will be injustice since this law allies not only to man but to everything, even non living things. Therefor the source of evil is man. This is the truth that even the churches don't teach. Think about cars. The person who invented cars did a good thing -- to make transportation easier. If somebody chooses to use the car wrongly-- hit and kill people with it, would you blame the maker of the car. The same applies to the question at hand. |
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