It is estimated that there are over 43,000 Christian denominations worldwide and that by 2025 that will be 55,000. In other words, Christianity is fragmenting more all of the time. Yet Jesus prayed for the unity of His people. Has Jesus failed? Did the Father not grant His prayer? Or are we misunderstanding something about the denominations?

In John 17, Jesus prayed for His disciples and those who would believe on Him through their word, "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are…. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me" (verses 11, 20-23).

If you search the Bible, you will find that Paul and the other New Testament writers made frequent reference to Christians being of "one body," "one Spirit," and "one mind." Paul told the Corinthians that there "should be no schism in the body" (1 Corinthians 12:25). It should be obvious that Jesus and the disciples considered unity among Christians important. But when we look at the various churches and denominations, we see disunity. Instead of a "unity of the faith" (Ephesians 4:13) and a "unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace," we see churches that have in the past actually gone to war against one another, burned each other's members at the stake, and still today have heated disagreements. How can this be?

Applying some logic, there are two possibilities (well, maybe three, as we'll see). Either, despite the fact that this is the church built by Jesus and Jesus wants it to be one and His disciples echoed this desire, the church fragmented against Jesus' will. Or, the churches and denominations that we see fragmented are not the church Jesus built and which is to be united. Of course, the first possibility means that somehow things have gone wrong and Jesus has lost control of His church. This is nonsense, as Jesus is God, and God is omnipotent and does not lose control. The second possibility has to be the answer. And yet....

There is a third possibility that is a variation on the second possibility. It is that when we look at a church or a denomination, we are seeing two things. We are seeing the Southern Baptist Association or the Presbyterian Church in America or the Evangelical Free Church or the First Baptist Church on the corner or the Community Church down the street. These institutions are all divided. These we must see as not the church that Jesus built but merely institutions started by men. But at the same time, we are also seeing people. In all of these denominations and churches, there are people. And these people, if they are truly born again Christians (and we must accept that not all of them are), are not divided. They are all members of the one Body of Christ, the ekklēsia built by Jesus Christ (see "Ekklēsia or Church".

True, these people are individuals who may not even know each other. But they are united; all over the planet, God's people are spiritually united and assembled before Him. They are all in one Body, the Body of Jesus Christ. The institutional churches and denominations they belong to divide them not only physically but also mentally by causing them to focus on what the church or the pastor teaches rather than letting them discover without prejudice what the pure Word of God says. This is what Paul calls in Ephesians 4:14, being "children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive."

So, when we look at the world of Christianity that men have created, we see it fragmented. But when we look at born again Christians from God's point of view, we see them assembled together before Him as the one ekklēsia or church built by Jesus Christ. Therefore, Paul exhorts his readers to "walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" (Ephesians 4:1b-3). This does not mean we should be naïve and gullibly accept false teachings that even brethren may espouse because they themselves are deceived. But it does mean that we should be aware that among those called and regenerated by God there truly is "one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ" (Ephesians 4:4-7).

Diversity of callings, diversity of grace, diversity of revelation ,that's the reason

Joagbaje: Diversity of callings, diversity of grace, diversity of revelation ,that's the reason

Good morning Mr. Agbaje,

If you believe the above explains it then why wasn't it so in the time of the apostles? I know for sure that the spirit was very active in their time as he is active in ours and I know that in the time of the apostles there was diversity of callings, grace and revelation but the body of Christ was not divided. Everyone used their various gifts within the fold rather than go of to form their own denomination.

I really do not believe God calls people to form their own denominations for there is no place in sacred scriptures (from Genesis to Revelation) were the Holy spirit inspired anyone to form his or her own denomination.


Thank you!

Joagbaje: Diversity of callings, diversity of grace, diversity of revelation ,that's the reason

good am joagbaje,dat was actually wat i tot too..but if You r realy observin,u wil find out dat it isnt d case in our present time..if one clergy man or pastor wakes up one mornin stating dat his 'church' is beta dan d odas,or d members start 2 advertise d establishment or d pastor rada dan God..dis has nothin 2 do wit callin,if it was,dere wud b unity within our clergymen...wat we have now is a complete reverse of wat jesus prayd 4..

Joagbaje: Diversity of callings, diversity of grace, diversity of revelation ,that's the reason

u call contradiction diversity? Wow, i'm touched

striktlymi:

Good morning Mr. Agbaje,

If you believe the above explains it then why wasn't it so in the time of the apostles? I know for sure that the spirit was very active in their time as he is active in ours and I know that in the time of the apostles there was diversity of callings, grace and revelation but the body of Christ was not divided. Everyone used their various gifts within the fold rather than go of to form their own denomination.

I really do not believe God calls people to form their own denominations for there is no place in sacred scriptures (from Genesis to Revelation) were the Holy spirit inspired anyone to form his or her own denomination.
Thank you!

i agree, contradiction isn't diversity. What we have today are men wu for their own selfish reason have decided to fragment the body of christ. This doesn't mean there are no sincere pastors, the "sincere ones" took up scripture and claimed they posses the holyspirit and decided to interprete in a way that suite their "holyspirit". With d advent of sola scriptura all that we have is each person claiming to b rightly interpreting d bible thus forming his own denomination.

It all started after the apostles had all been killed off by the children of satan.

Before that christ body was one, also note they all lived the way of the torah (jew) and not christian which is a new but temporary creation

The Nicolatians: Nico is the bird that sits in the hand of the greek god zeus when you see his statue in his temple, nico represents victory

Latians also translated means people

so with the nicolatians we have victory over the people.Now the sin of the nicolatians which the farther hates was the division of the body through the creation of the special ones (clergy) and the expendable masses (laity). please always note with great care when the holy spirit uses the word hate

This heiriachial system has only one purpose, the complete mind controll of its victims hence the doctrines of men and no spirituality what happened to the fist works?

All you ever hear is My pastor or assistant pastor and holy mother even those in the choir will think themselves in a better position salvation wise, all this separation for what

Did yashua not sit on the mount with them on the same level why is there an elevated area within the synagoug and why have you allowed yourself to be overruled

Looks like the devils old trick divide and rule. laity and clergy

Nowhere is scripture is this separation ordained.
They proffessed to be jews but lived a contrary way of life with new man made doctrines

Prophetically we had a warning about this as soon as the elders noticed the trend arising pls note

Hbr 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Hbr 10:25 Not (forsaking the assembling of ourselves together), as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

So here now in the far future we have the the situation as described olukoyas fans forsaking tb josha and tb joshuas fans forsaking oyedepo

The same hieriachial system that christ came to destroy has risen its ugly head again, but like we said it was prophesised.

Most bible scholars agree that apostate christendom will be completely destroyed by the beast (political power structure) so that the beast is worshiped as all in all.

You can see the signs of this happening alraedy as guns and other spiritually violent forms are slowly being brought into the so called house of god for protection


This same power structure is what martin fought over with the release of his thesis as to why the pope is satan. because of this revelation at a time of proper darkness the protestant church was born, prosteting fully but still unable to free the itself from traditions and doctrines covering a millenia. (it was called the dark ages 1260 yrs of the papal reign until napoleone bonaparte)

such traditions include sunday worship as opposed to sabbath rest, observance of pagan feast days as opposed to jewish holy days etc

I beg to differ, d apostles were not judiazers.

MostHigh: It all started after the apostles had all been killed off by the children of satan.
Before that christ body was one, also note they all lived the way of the torah (jew) and not christian which is a new but temporary creation

sorry paul didnt even urge xtian to follow d torah, he said d law was abolished!

The Nicolatians: Nico is the bird that sits in the hand of the greek god zeus when you see his statue in his temple, nico represents victory
Latians also translated means people
so with the nicolatians we have victory over the people.Now the sin of the nicolatians which the farther hates was the division of the body through the creation of the special ones (clergy) and the expendable masses (laity). please always note with great care when the holy spirit uses the word hate

during d time of d apostles there were already offices in d church dat wasnt d work of d nicolatian. D bible bear witnes to episkopus, presbyters and diaconae

This heiriachial system has only one purpose, the complete mind controll of its victims hence the doctrines of men and no spirituality what happened to the fist works?All you ever hear is My pastor or assistant pastor and holy mother even those in the choir will think themselves in a better position salvation wise, all this separation for what Did yashua not sit on the mount with them on the same level why is there an elevated area within the synagoug and why have you allowed yourself to be overruled
Looks like the devils old trick divide and rule. laity and clergyNowhere is scripture is this separation ordained.
They proffessed to be jews but lived a contrary way of life with new man made doctrines
Prophetically we had a warning about this as soon as the elders noticed the trend arising pls note
Hbr 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Hbr 10:25 Not (forsaking the assembling of ourselves together), as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
So here now in the far future we have the the situation as described olukoyas fans forsaking tb josha and tb joshuas fans forsaking oyedepo
The same hieriachial system that christ came to destroy has risen its ugly head again, but like we said it was prophesised.
Most bible scholars agree that apostate christendom will be completely destroyed by the beast (political power structure) so that the beast is worshiped as all in all.
You can see the signs of this happening alraedy as guns and other spiritually violent forms are slowly being brought into the so called house of god for protection
This same power structure is what martin fought over with the release of his thesis as to why the pope is satan. because of this revelation at a time of proper darkness the protestant church was born, prosteting fully but still unable to free the itself from traditions and doctrines covering a millenia. (it was called the dark ages 1260 yrs of the papal reign until napoleone bonaparte)
such traditions include sunday worship as opposed to sabbath rest, observance of pagan feast days as opposed to jewish holy days etc

are you a jew?

Ubenedictus your difference is noted but pls remember that
1. It was by political action (Beast action) and not any inspiration by the holy spirit that the followers of christ were prohibited from juedizing pls note
Dan 7:25-
And he shall speak great words against the most High,
and shall wear out the saints of the most High,
and think to change (Times and Laws): [of the most High God]... is this not the lawless man of 2thess 2 what is he lawless about? what laws and times has he changed? could it be sunday instead of saturday rest or easter in place of passover?

pls note

Canon Laws of the Council of Laodicea (343-381?) enforced by a ogogoro drinking warlord (constantine) and his plebs in council.
Can. 29. “Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honor, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out [Greek anathema] from Christ.” …
If the original Apostles had kept Sunday sacred, there would have been no need for emperial laws to change an ancient custom. The very existence of this Canon declarations concerning Sunday reinforce the fact that it was a new and not original practice, hence we see the lawless man clearly
revealed changing Gods laws as prophesised.

The changes made by this council caused a big rift between eastern and western christianity till today as the easterners understood the sacredness of the torah observances and still observe them till today.

When these changes were made all the wise men against were either put to death and those that escaped fled to egypt and ethiopia (oriental orthodoxy)

2. The apostles and yashua the master observed the sabbath jewish rest day as the most high ordained and nowhere in the whole of scripture did they categorically tell you not to do the same
3. the apostles and yashua the master observed the passover holy day which we are compelled as the scripture says to observe forever in our dwellings and nowhere in the whole of scripture did they categorically tell you not to do the same
4. The apostles and yashua observed the feast of tebernacles and nowhere in the whole of scripture did they categorically tell you not to do the same

and even when the issue between paul and peter was settled by James the just it was still the Law torah that was used to settle the matter.... do not eat things strangled and food offerd to idols, do christians observe these restrictions?

Also

why are you qouting paul why not quote your master yashua son of joseph opinion on this matter John 4:22

regarding the apostles and the offices i would like to think that they took time off from family and work to distribute food and clothing remember food and clothing not mammon to the sick and needy this is truly an elevated office for the servant is the true master in disguise.

But here we have a situation where not only is the office holder collecting from you he is also telling you how to live you life

Finally I live the way of the jew,

so does that make me a jew?

you tell me...

Also please read about about the quatrodecimans there are millions of christians on earth that are called judeo christian because of thier way of life, they love christ live as christians but also uphold the (teachings and instruction) often mistranslated as LAW apart from the blood sacrifices, this is the main theme of the book of hebrews

New priesthood= New Sacrifice but not a complete abolition of the teachings and instructions (LAW)

salvation in christ but teachings and instructions for reproof and instructions in rightousness, you cannot have one without the other

paul was fighting against those that would use the law to enslave thier brethren sound familiar

The master says for these words you have spoken I should put you under my feet john 4:22, because grace abound does not mean we should take the most high for granted.



Peace love and joy!!!!

contradiction of purpose and self interest !

I saw dis coming dat is y i ask if u are a jew

MostHigh: Ubenedictus your difference is noted but pls remember that
1. It was by political action (Beast action) and not any inspiration by the holy spirit that the followers of christ were prohibited from juedizing pls note
Dan 7:25-
And he shall speak great words against the most High,
and shall wear out the saints of the most High,
and think to change (Times and Laws): [of the most High God]... is this not the lawless man of 2thess 2 what is he lawless about? what laws and times has he changed? could it be sunday instead of saturday rest or easter in place of passover?
pls note
Canon Laws of the Council of Laodicea (343-381?) enforced by a ogogoro drinking warlord (constantine) and his plebs in council.
Can. 29. “Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honor, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out [Greek anathema] from Christ.” …
If the original Apostles had kept Sunday sacred, there would have been no need for emperial laws to change an ancient custom. The very existence of this Canon declarations concerning Sunday reinforce the fact that it was a new and not original practice, hence we see the lawless man clearly
revealed changing Gods laws as prophesised.
The changes made by this council caused a big rift between eastern and western christianity till today as the easterners understood the sacredness of the torah observances and still observe them till today.

dis is untrue d easterners dont kip d torah make ur research. And a law doesn't neccesaryly suppose dat d practice didnt exist, thou shall not kill is a law dat doesnt mean everybody was killing b4 d law. Rev1:10, tells us dat there was d "lord's day".

When these changes were made all the wise men against were either put to death and those that escaped fled to egypt and ethiopia (oriental orthodoxy)

d orientals didnt flee becos of sunday there was a schism because there was disagreement about d nature of christ.

2. The apostles and yashua the master observed the sabbath jewish rest day as the most high ordained and nowhere in the whole of scripture did they categorically tell you not to do the same
3. the apostles and yashua the master observed the passover holy day which we are compelled as the scripture says to observe forever in our dwellings and nowhere in the whole of scripture did they categorically tell you not to do the same
4. The apostles and yashua observed the feast of tebernacles and nowhere in the whole of scripture did they categorically tell you not to do the same

and even when the issue between paul and peter was settled by James the just it was still the Law torah that was used to settle the matter.... do not eat things strangled and food offerd to idols, do christians observe these restrictions?

and d same apostles told us dat we are not required to observe dose feast

Also
why are you qouting paul why not quote your master yashua son of joseph opinion on this matter John 4:22

becos i believe paul posses d spirit of christ and was under dat inspiration.

But here we have a situation where not only is the office holder collecting from you he is also telling you how to live you life

hahaha, d office holder may b a preacher like paul 4 example.

Finally I live the way of the jew,
so does that make me a jew?you tell me...
Also please read about about the quatrodecimans there are millions of christians on earth that are called judeo christian because of thier way of life, they love christ live as christians but also uphold the (teachings and instruction) often mistranslated as LAW apart from the blood sacrifices, this is the main theme of the book of hebrews
New priesthood= New Sacrifice but not a complete abolition of the teachings and instructions (LAW)
salvation in christ but teachings and instructions for reproof and instructions in rightousness, you cannot have one without the other
paul was fighting against those that would use the law to enslave thier brethren sound familiar
The master says for these words you have spoken I should put you under my feet john 4:22, because grace abound does not mean we should take the most high for granted.
Peace love and joy!!!!

so u claim d feasts are to be observed by xtians? Pls provide d biblical proof!

Did yashua son of joseph not observe the feasts and all his desciples also? I thought that would be enough for any true beleiver

are you looking for particular verses where they tell you you must do as I do?

Abi no be do as I do again? correct me if iam wrong.

why are you looking for what does not exist?

Is Yashua son of joseph not your Glory?

Your glory is all you want to be isnt it?

pls correct me if I am wrong


Peace love and joy!!

MostHigh: Did yashua son of joseph not observe the feasts and all his desciples also? I thought that would be enough for any true beleiver

are you looking for particular verses where they tell you you must do as I do?

Abi no be do as I do again? correct me if iam wrong.

why are you looking for what does not exist?

Is Yashua son of joseph not your Glory?

Your glory is all you want to be isnt it?

pls correct me if I am wrong


Peace love and joy!!

interestly Jesus legal son of joseph and mary was also revolutionary, at his death all the past feast lost their significance and meaning and as d veil of d temple was torn so were d feasts abolished. That is why paul under d inspiration of d holyspirit teach clearly that those feast are not for d xtians.

striktlymi:

Good morning Mr. Agbaje,

If you believe the above explains it then why wasn't it so in the time of the apostles? I know for sure that the spirit was very active in their time as he is active in ours and I know that in the time of the apostles there was diversity of callings, grace and revelation but the body of Christ was not divided. Everyone used their various gifts within the fold rather than go of to form their own denomination.

I mentioned three things . Callings, Grace or gifts and thirdly is Revelation. Sometimes all three may work in a particular ministry sometimes one or two. Tats what differentiate ministers from one another .

The early church had their differences. Paul had special calling a special message. You will notice some "contradictions" between Peter ,paul and James. They operated at different levels of truth. Some were very religious . But they all agree at the cross . Paul concluded .every one should follow their conviction without judging the other.

Romans 14:4-6
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up:for God is able to make him stand.
One man esteemeth one day above another:another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


The only problem is that we tend to criticize one another instead of harmonizing and synchronizing to balance the deficit.

I really do not believe God calls people to form their own denominations for there is no place in sacred scriptures (from Genesis to Revelation) were the Holy spirit inspired anyone to form his or her own denomination.!

Ministry is not about forming denominaton. There is different grace upon each person. Followers sometimes go to the extreme to condemn other ministries .it started in the bible days

[color=#99000[b]]1 Corinthians 1:12-13[/b]
What I mean is this, that each one of you [either] says, I belong to Paul, or I belong to Apollos, or I belong to Cephas (Peter), or I belong to Christ.
Is Christ (the Messiah) divided into parts? Was Paul crucified on behalf of you? Or were you baptized into the name of Paul?[/color]

We have seen the church gravitate from revelation to revelation. The Lutheran came with justification by faith, baptist came with water baptism , and Pentecostals came with tongues ,healings etc. and falling under the power . Actually falling under the power started with baptist ! Suprise! . Deeper life started bible study , with holiness emphasis . That's what the church was lacking then, other ministers started teaching on prosperity ,that's what the church lacked then. Then came the deliverance move , the prophetic move etc. God was building his church by all these diversity of movement . All these are part of a whole . Ministers should work together because know man knows it all. Some are good teachers but they can't cast devils out or heal the sick. Vice versal.

As much as Paul was gifted in many things .he wasn't into water baptism . But he didn't criticize those who do. Even though water baptism was important , it wasn't his major assignment .but you can't tell that to the baptists

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel:not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

^^^
Good evening Mr. Agbaji,

I quite agree with you when you said no one should judge any body but this does not imply that we can't attempt to correct a brother when he does wrong. If you study sacred scriptures thoroughly you would realize that there is no "contradiction" in what the apostles taught. What people lack is the ability to understand some of those teachings of the apostles, particularly the teachings of Paul. As Peter puts it:

2 Peter 3:15-16
"15 Look on our Lord's patience as the opportunity he is giving you to be saved, just as our dear friend Paul wrote to you, using the wisdom that God gave him. 16 This is what he says in all his letters when he writes on the subject. There are some difficult things in his letters which ignorant and unstable people explain falsely, as they do with other passages of the Scriptures. So they bring on their own destruction".

The diversity noted in the time of the apostles has nothing to do with they forming their own denominations. They all remained one under Christ and their teachings were the same because they got what they taught from the same spirit. But what we have today is a far cry from what the apostles had. You hear various teachings on the same subject which are so distinct and contradictory that one would wonder whether the same spirit is responsible for them all.

Mr. Agbaje, teachings like: "Justification by faith", "water baptism", "speaking in tongues", "healing" etc can hardly be attributed to the Lutherans, Baptists and Pentecostals respectively. These were teachings, or revelations if you like, that have been right from the time of Christ and the apostles. And when the apostles taught these they remained one under Christ.

No Apostle formed his own denomination. They had different gifts which was used within the Church. There is no evidence in sacred scriptures that suggests that the spirit of God calls people to start-up their own denomination. On the contrary, evidence abound which shows clearly that the spirit wants every Christian to be united and every gift given be used within the sheep-fold of Christ.

Thank you!

striktlymi: ^^^
No Apostle formed his own denomination. They had different gifts which was used within the Church.

It's not an issues of denomination. I will prefer you don't use that word. It's an issue of ministry . And ministry is service.

There is no evidence in sacred scriptures that suggests that the spirit of God calls people to start-up their own denomination[/quoute]

James and Peter had desciplesm under them . They were minis trying to the Jews . Paul had desciples under him. Apostle john had desciples under him. If a man is called of God with a message ,he need to have a structure by which people are reached taught or descipled. It's a ministry not "denomination"

[quote] On the contrary, evidence abound which shows clearly that the spirit wants every Christian to be united and every gift given be used within the sheep-fold of Christ.
Thank you!

Its still thesame today. But Are you aware there were doctrinal disagreement in the early church? . Also they had their different levels of revelations. We all have agreement at the cross . Every other thing is secondary. Until we come to the unity of the faith,

Ephesians 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

^^^
Good morning Mr. Agbaje,

I would have loved to tell myself that the issue is not denominational but this would be very misleading on my part. The early Church had various ministries within one sheepfold but today's church have various denominations with each denomination having their separate ministries within.

Mr. Agbaje, what we have today is not the same as what the Apostles had. When there was a dispute in doctrine the Apostles were quick to come together as members of the same Church to resolve this dispute. The first council of Jerusalem is a very good example. I believe you are farmiliar with it but for the sake of others the relevant quote is Acts 15:1-41.

That passage of sacred scriptures showed clearly that thet Apostles acted in one accord and every teaching made was closely monitored. Peter was aware of the teachings of Paul and vise versa. No one had the right to go off and teach whatever he liked all in the name of Christ.

Sadly, the case today is quite disturbing. You see "men of God" teaching whatever they want (whether right or wrong) without restraint. In today's church, no GO has the right to influence what another GO is teaching. This was not so in the early church.


Thank you!

striktlymi: ^^^
Good morning Mr. Agbaje,

I will appreciate to be addressed by my I.D. Joagbaje

I would have loved to tell myself that the issue is not denominational but this would be very misleading on my part.

The use of the word denomination is already misleading. But if you want to use it . Go back to the history of denominations . Catholic, Anglican ,baptist etc. they emerge as a result of revelation.

The early Church had various ministries within one sheepfold but today's church have various denominations with each denomination having their separate ministries within.

Churches under peter responded and submit to peter and james likewise . churches under paul are submitted to paul , same thing goes for john and others whos detail we may not have . if you call that one sheepfold then , same thing applies today ,The church still has various ministries within one sheepfold .

Mr. Agbaje, what we have today is not the same as what the Apostles had. When there was a dispute in doctrine the Apostles were quick to come together as members of the same Church to resolve this dispute. The first council of Jerusalem is a very good example. I believe you are farmiliar with it but for the sake of others the relevant quote is Acts 15:1-41.

They didn't resolve anything. The Jerusalem churches hadn't come to full comprehension of grace as much as paul does. He had in dept knowledge which they perceive as hard. They tried to put their doctrine on him and he didn't buy it. Not eating unclean meat etc. his attitude after the conference shows they didn't add anything to his doctrine.

Acts 15:29
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication:from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well..

But hear. Paul comments and teaching

1 Timothy 4:4
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

1 Corinthians 8:7
Nevertheless, not all [believers] possess this knowledge. But some, through being all their lives until now accustomed to [thinking of] idols [as real and living], still consider the food [offered to an idol] as that sacrificed to an [actual] god; and their weak consciences become defiled and injured if they eat [it].


Hear his comment after the council meeting

Galatians 2:6
As for those who were considered important in the church, their reputation doesn't concern me. God isn't impressed with mere appearances, and neither am I. And of course these leaders were able to add nothing to the message I had been preaching.

That passage of sacred scriptures showed clearly that thet Apostles acted in one accord and every teaching made was closely monitored. Peter was aware of the teachings of Paul and vise versa. No one had the right to go off and teach whatever he liked all in the name of Christ.

The only accord was those who accepted the authority and revelation of Paul teaching. Remember how he rebuked Peter for his hypocrisy when Peter came to visit. He won't tolerate nonsense in his congregation. He won't compromise his revelation. Many of the elders came under the teaching of paul.

Sadly, the case today is quite disturbing. You see "men of God" teaching whatever they want

I don't see it that way. They are not teaching. What they want , they teach what they know according to the burden God lay in their hearts. And it's dangerous to criticize a man when you don't know his calling .

whether right or wrong)

Every minister has the responsibility to develop himself in knowledge through study. If he fails to do that. It's between him and God. That's a different matter.

( without restraint. In today's church, no GO has the right to influence what another GO is teaching. This was not so in the early church.
Thank you!

No G.O can dictate what the other should teach, was anyone able to influence the doctrine of Paul? Did paul tell them how wrong they were in the council? That's the work of the Holy Spirit . everyone should focus on their calling. You can only dictate what people under you should teach.

^^^
Well Mr. Joagbaje,

We believe what we want to believe. This does not change anything. The fact speak for itself. To suggest that the Apostles went about forming "their own" churches is false.

What was discussed at the council of Jerusalem was binding on all believers at the time and not on some fragments of the Church. The issue about circmsizing the Gentiles was resolved at that council. I suggest you go through your bible again.

The ish Paul had was not with any member of the Apostle but other Jewish converts to Christianity who are bent on following the Law as laid down by Moses. Apostles like Peter who also had access to the letters of Paul understood very well what Paul taught and did not disgree with him.

The various Churches were one and the same and adheard to the teachings as taught by the Apostles. Peter can go to any of the churches and teach without any form of contradiction. But can Pastor Chris go to a deeper life church and teach that Mastur.bation is not sinful? Or can Pastor Okotie go to a Mountain of fire and teach that tatoos are okay to have?


Thank you!

when you say (They tried to put their doctrine on him and he didn't buy it. Not eating unclean meat etc. his attitude after the conference shows they didn't add anything to his doctrine) one can only deduce the following.

1.It is once again clear that in the spirit you cannot comprehend what you are saying, yashua son of joseph obeyd no man made doctrines only the inspired word of God.
Joagbaje

2. At least by your mouth you confess that paul had his own doctrines.

3. you are completely fixated on paul and not yashua, hence your constant reference to his words which only bring more conradictions to the words of christ

4. If you had quoted yashua as much then you would have been convicted lang time ago

5. Is your penis circumsised and if so why? since paul says there is no need.


Peace love and joy!!!!

striktlymi: ^^^
Well Mr. Joagbaje,

The name is joagbaje pls

We believe what we want to believe. This does not change anything. The fact speak for itself. To suggest that the Apostles went about forming "their own" churches is false.

The idea of forming church or forming denomination is from you. I've not heard a pastor say he want to form church or denomination. You chose that language to give a representation. But it's distorting truth. I don't know your reason for such extreme use of word.

What was discussed at the council of Jerusalem was binding on all believers at the time and not on some fragments of the Church

They didn't add anything to Paul ministry.


Galatians 2:6
But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me:God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:

The issue about circmsizing the Gentiles was resolved at that council. I suggest you go through your bible again.

Paul added nothing to them and they added nothing to paul.

The ISSUES Paul had was not with any member of the Apostle but other Jewish converts to Christianity who are bent on following the Law as laid down by Moses. Apostles like Peter who also had access to the letters of Paul understood very well what Paul taught and did not disgree with him

He admitted the teachings of Paul were too hard. By that he knew paul had deeper revelation. That's my point.

The various Churches were one and the same and adheard to the teachings as taught by the Apostles.

They were not under one central authority if that's your point. . Paul didn't stop his members from reading the materials of others but he must let them know who theiy are responsible to and who their spiritual father is.

1 Corinthians 4:15-16
For although you may have ten thousand others to teach you about Christ, remember that you have only me as your father. For I was the one who brought you to Christ when I preached the Gospel to you. So I beg you to follow my example and do as I do.

Peter can go to any of the churches and teach without any form of contradiction. But can Pastor Chris go to a deeper life church and teach that Mastur.bation is not sinful? Or can Pastor Okotie go to a Mountain of fire and teach that tatoos are okay to have?

Did paul go to James church to teach that you can eat meat offered to idols? Did James come to paul church to teach that a man can't be justified by faith alone?

We agree where' we agree , we leave the rest to God. If pastor chris won't tech in deeper life , other ministers go to his conferences to learn. Deeper life as well has their cliques of friends .all should focus on their callings

Take for example DEEPER LIFE church you mentioned. How did it start . Pastor kumuyi got converted in apostolic faith or so. But he began to have deeper revelation into what he was teaching beyond the level of his present church and people began to come to him for knowledge and since there was no opportunity to fulfill this in his then church , he was led to take the teaching out. And gradually deeper life was Bo, question. Was he looking for job? Or ,money? Was he trying to build his own empire ? God simply gave him a message and a burden and he must fulfil it. That's ll. it sent matter the name you call it. But it's not the idea of "I WANT TO START A DENOMINATION. or FORM MY OWN CHURCH . That sounds very carnal . Ministry is of the holygjost .

striktlymi: ^^^
Good evening Mr. Agbaji,

I quite agree with you when you said no one should judge any body but this does not imply that we can't attempt to correct a brother when he does wrong. If you study sacred scriptures thoroughly you would realize that there is no "contradiction" in what the apostles taught. What people lack is the ability to understand some of those teachings of the apostles, particularly the teachings of Paul. As Peter puts it:

2 Peter 3:15-16
"15 Look on our Lord's patience as the opportunity he is giving you to be saved, just as our dear friend Paul wrote to you, using the wisdom that God gave him. 16 This is what he says in all his letters when he writes on the subject. There are some difficult things in his letters which ignorant and unstable people explain falsely, as they do with other passages of the Scriptures. So they bring on their own destruction".

The diversity noted in the time of the apostles has nothing to do with they forming their own denominations. They all remained one under Christ and their teachings were the same because they got what they taught from the same spirit. But what we have today is a far cry from what the apostles had. You hear various teachings on the same subject which are so distinct and contradictory that one would wonder whether the same spirit is responsible for them all.

Mr. Agbaje, teachings like: "Justification by faith", "water baptism", "speaking in tongues", "healing" etc can hardly be attributed to the Lutherans, Baptists and Pentecostals respectively. These were teachings, or revelations if you like, that have been right from the time of Christ and the apostles. And when the apostles taught these they remained one under Christ.

No Apostle formed his own denomination. They had different gifts which was used within the Church. There is no evidence in sacred scriptures that suggests that the spirit of God calls people to start-up their own denomination. On the contrary, evidence abound which shows clearly that the spirit wants every Christian to be united and every gift given be used within the sheep-fold of Christ.

Thank you!

amen

Joagbaje:

The name is joagbaje pls




The idea of forming church or forming denomination is from you. I've not heard a pastor say he want to form church or denomination. You chose that language to give a representation. But it's distorting truth. I don't know your reason for such extreme use of word.



They didn't add anything to Paul ministry.


Galatians 2:6
But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me:God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:



Paul added nothing to them and they added nothing to paul.



He admitted the teachings of Paul were too hard. By that he knew paul had deeper revelation. That's my point.



They were not under one central authority if that's your point. . Paul didn't stop his members from reading the materials of others but he must let them know who theiy are responsible to and who their spiritual father is.

1 Corinthians 4:15-16
For although you may have ten thousand others to teach you about Christ, remember that you have only me as your father. For I was the one who brought you to Christ when I preached the Gospel to you. So I beg you to follow my example and do as I do.





Did paul go to James church to teach that you can eat meat offered to idols? Did James come to paul church to teach that a man can't be justified by faith alone?

We agree where' we agree , we leave the rest to God. If pastor chris won't tech in deeper life , other ministers go to his conferences to learn. Deeper life as well has their cliques of friends .all should focus on their callings

Take for example DEEPER LIFE church you mentioned. How did it start . Pastor kumuyi got converted in apostolic faith or so. But he began to have deeper revelation into what he was teaching beyond the level of his present church and people began to come to him for knowledge and since there was no opportunity to fulfill this in his then church , he was led to take the teaching out. And gradually deeper life was Bo, question. Was he looking for job? Or ,money? Was he trying to build his own empire ? God simply gave him a message and a burden and he must fulfil it. That's ll. it sent matter the name you call it. But it's not the idea of "I WANT TO START A DENOMINATION. or FORM MY OWN CHURCH . That sounds very carnal . Ministry is of the holygjost .

Sorry but I just got to say that you are living in denial of what is true.


Thank you!

striktlymi:

Sorry but I just got to say that you are living in denial of what is true.

Thank you!

Denial of wha truth. Explain

Joagbaje:

The name is joagbaje pls
The idea of forming church or forming denomination is from you. I've not heard a pastor say he want to form church or denomination. You chose that language to give a representation. But it's distorting truth. I don't know your reason for such extreme use of word.

the use of word is not extreme, it is very moderate to say the least,

They didn't add anything to Paul ministry.
Galatians 2:6
But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me:God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
Paul added nothing to them and they added nothing to paul.

that is becos they weren't against each oda. They were teaching d same tin.

He admitted the teachings of Paul were too hard. By that he knew paul had deeper revelation. That's my point.

this is false, he never said paul had a "deeper revelation". He said many twist d words of paul to their own distruction.

They were not under one central authority if that's your point. . Paul didn't stop his members from reading the materials of others but he must let them know who theiy are responsible to and who their spiritual father is.

this is a joke, at the very least d council was a central authority.

1 Corinthians 4:15-16
For although you may have ten thousand others to teach you about Christ, remember that you have only me as your father. For I was the one who brought you to Christ when I preached the Gospel to you. So I beg you to follow my example and do as I do.

Did paul go to James church to teach that you can eat meat offered to idols? Did James come to paul church to teach that a man can't be justified by faith alone?

paul neva taught that a man is justified by faith ALONE and wen at council it was concluded to abstain from food to idol paul was quiet so d above is non seqiter

We agree where' we agree , we leave the rest to God. If pastor chris won't tech in deeper life , other ministers go to his conferences to learn. Deeper life as well has their cliques of friends .all should focus on their callings

Take for example DEEPER LIFE church you mentioned. How did it start . Pastor kumuyi got converted in apostolic faith or so. But he began to have deeper revelation into what he was teaching beyond the level of his present church and people began to come to him for knowledge and since there was no opportunity to fulfill this in his then church , he was led to take the teaching out. And gradually deeper life was Bo, question. Was he looking for job? Or ,money? Was he trying to build his own empire ? God simply gave him a message and a burden and he must fulfil it. That's ll. it sent matter the name you call it. But it's not the idea of "I WANT TO START A DENOMINATION. or FORM MY OWN CHURCH . That sounds very carnal . Ministry is of the holygjost .

of a deeper revealation uh? The bible say there is no more new revelation. GOD HAS Skopen his word Jesus christ. The faith my bible says was "once and for all times delivered to the saints" anybody claiming another revealation is looking for trouble.

Joagbaje: in response to your reference to 1 chor 4:15 paul is telling you to do as he does.

Pls can you tell me if that would mean do as christ is doing

Pls joagbaje english is a simple language paul and peter no get thier own church.

its just like when you tell someone uncounciuosly pls come to my church subconcuisly you are asserting some form of interdenominational spirit.

You have no church my brother christ is the true church.

Guys, we need to understand that our nomenclature is secondary. We are one body in Christ, everyone doing their bit. Your "church" (denomination or whatever)is a subset of the church Universal. For example, a denomination might be a part of the arm by virtue of their message or "revelation" while another may be a part of the leg.

We also need to understand that it is God that calls into ministry. Not all ministries will function under church. God often releases His servants to establish due to certain reasons:
(1)If the organisation under which the individual operates is not libral to accomodate that message
(2)If He is sending such a person out to pioneer a new work all together

So in the case of the above, if God gives such a person a new name for the new work, who is he responsible to? God or man?

So what is important, the nomenclature or the assignment?

We need to know that our social system is different from the early church. In this dispensation, every organisation has to be registered.

Christ is the message, we all meet at the cross. But we would not always see it all the same way.

Some people establish churches with ulterior motives. But it does not change the fact that God is still sending people for new assignments.

J_alive: Guys, we need to understand that our nomenclature is secondary. We are one body in Christ, everyone doing their bit. Your "church" (denomination or whatever)is a subset of the church Universal. For example, a denomination might be a part of the arm by virtue of their message or "revelation" while another may be a part of the leg.

We also need to understand that it is God that calls into ministry. Not all ministries will function under church. God often releases His servants to establish due to certain reasons:
(1)If the organisation under which the individual operates is not libral to accomodate that message
(2)If He is sending such a person out to pioneer a new work all together

So in the case of the above, if God gives such a person a new name for the new work, who is he responsible to? God or man?

So what is important, the nomenclature or the assignment?

We need to know that our social system is different from the early church. In this dispensation, every organisation has to be registered.

Christ is the message, we all meet at the cross. But we would not always see it all the same way.

Some people establish churches with ulterior motives. But it does not change the fact that God is still sending people for new assignments.

and how do u address d fact dat "one faith" has turn to a thousand faith? Or is God just making new faith as he is sending more pipo to fragment d church?

Ubenedictus: and how do u address d fact dat "one faith" has turn to a thousand faith? Or is God just making new faith as he is sending more pipo to fragment d church?

The thousand faith,who do they receive?in whose name do they pray? who do they worship?

Sir, if the answer to all is Christ, then there is no thousand faith.

Remember the story of the other guy that was casting out demons in Jesus name but not part of His desciple? What was Jesus' response?

Mark 9:38-40
38And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.


Is that guy practicing another faith? Obviously no.

What happened there is nothing other that politics. Obviously that other guy caught the "revelation" of casting out demons and got results more than the apostles and that was a slap on their face. Remember in Mark 9:28 they could not cast out a demon and Jesus rebuked them for it.

So John felt they were the Apostles, closer to Jesus, it should have been them casting out devils like Christ not one unknown brother. But Jesus said NO.

Even though the other guy is not in the Apostle's "camp" yet he acted in the name of Jesus and Jesus approved of him.

This story shows what I said here

We also need to understand that it is God that calls into ministry. Not all ministries will function under church. God often releases His servants to establish due to certain reasons:
(1)If the organisation under which the individual operates is not libral to accomodate that message
(2)If He is sending such a person out to pioneer a new work all together

The Apostles were the political force.But Christ will not allow the message to be stopped.

It is still same faith, so long Christ is the center of the message.

Ubenedictus: the use of word is not extreme, it is very moderate to say the least,
that is becos they weren't against each oda. They were teaching d same tin.

Does this sound like thiesame thing compare these scriptures again. The statement of James here .

Acts 15:29
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication:from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well..

Vs paul teaching

1 Timothy 4:4
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

1 Corinthians 8:7
Nevertheless, not all [believers] possess this knowledge. But some, through being all their lives until now accustomed to [thinking of] idols [as real and living], still consider the food [offered to an idol] as that sacrificed to an [actual] god; and their weak consciences become defiled and injured if they eat [it].

Hear his comment after the council meeting

this is false, he never said paul had a "deeper revelation".

. . . Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood. .


If Peter hadn't had it tough digesting Pauline epistles he wouldn't have made the statement above . Paul had greater revelation of truth than they all . His epistles were wildly circulated in many churches of his day. Many apostles before him learned from his teachings

this is a joke, at the very least d council was a central authority.

It wasn't authority over Paul . Whatever their titles were didn't matter to him. Look at the attitude of his language about them .

Galatians 2:6
But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me:God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:

paul neva taught that a man is justified by faith ALONE

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

But James teaching was different

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

of a deeper revealation uh? The bible say there is no more new revelation.

He didn't learn it from man but from Jesus through the Holy Spirit .

John 16:12-13
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:and he will shew you things to come.

Galatians 1:11-12
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

GOD HAS Skopen his word Jesus christ. The faith my bible says was "once and for all times delivered to the saints" anybody claiming another revealation is looking for trouble.

Ministry is work of Holy Spirit. We never heard Jesus sang in tongues , until 1 Corinthians talked about it. Divers manifestations we heard in the epistles were not in Jesus ministry . The holygjost is the chairperson in th church