Well Mr. Nwankwo,

Your beliefs are quite interesting but not necessarily consistent with Christianity. Like I said, I respect your view on the matter and quite frankly I am curious to know where 'you peach your tent'.

I am quite sure Christianity, Islam and Atheism are out of the way but I am torn between you being an agnostic or a freethinker though you got me confused with your mention of karma. So where are you coming from? This would be a guide to understanding your view point.


Thanks!

truthislight:


lol. Imo!.

Coming from you on this thread, i wander.

Without boundaries it is sure tending to anachy.

No one says getting a compatible marriage met is bad, but a "sodom and gormorah" like lifestyle is a recipe for disaster.

That is why drawing the line is consistent with human nature and peaceful co-existence.

I guess you didn't understand my point in the previous posts. Fornication is sinful but this does not imply that one who has been involved in this cannot come out of it and it also does not imply that we commit sin when we go to clebrate the home coming of the couple involved.

striktlymi: Well Mr. Nwankwo,

Your beliefs are quite interesting but not necessarily consistent with Christianity. Like I said, I respect your view on the matter and quite frankly I am curious to know where 'you peach your tent'.

I am quite sure Christianity, Islam and Atheism are out of the way but I am turn between you being an agnostic or a freethinker though you got me confused with your mention of karma. So where are you coming from? This would be a guide to understanding your view point.


Thanks!

Hi Stikttlymi. Thank you for your question. My conviction are drawn from the work "In The Light Truth-The Grail Message" as well as my experiences in both the physically visible and invisible worlds of GOD. Stay blessed.

m_nwankwo:

Hi Stikttlymi. Thank you for your question. My conviction are drawn from the work "In The Light Truth-The Grail Message" as well as my experiences in both the physically visible and invisible worlds of GOD. Stay blessed.

Oh, now I understand sir,

I must confess that I know next to nothing about the beliefs of the "Grail message". I won't count what I know as knowledge cause it all 'boils down' to speculations. I guess this is something I need to remedy.

You will be the first "Grail message" faithful I will be coming in contact with. I hope our meeting online will give rise to a healthy and meaningful discuss.

I would have loved to learn more about the "Grail message" from you and probably do some research on my own but this thread is hardly the place for such as I believe I have really derailed the thread. Sorry about that @honey001.


Thank you!

striktlymi: Hi Nwankwo,

I trust you are preparing to have lunch cause I know I am.



I am glad that your post was not intended to justify fornication. I must confess that I was scared for a moment there.



First of all, I respect the fact that the above is your conviction on the matter and quite frankly, I tend to agree with some of the comments you made above but some others are rather obscure.

I don't know what your definition of fornication is cause I am quite concerned that you tried to suggest a distinction between what God calls fornication and what the 'Church' agrees to be fornication. I am of the opinion that fornication is quite clear and the definition of the 'Church' is the same as that proffered in sacred scriptures (which represents God's words).

I quite agree with you when you suggested that some factors MUST be present before a union will be considered as acceptable before God. 'By union I mean one who is properly married'. You mentioned "psychic compatibility", I am not sure what you mean by this but I am of the opinion that a union entered in deceit should not be considered to be a proper marriage and as such the union should be annulled (implying that there was no marriage in the first place).

Your use of intimacy is also quite vague. If your usage of 'initmacy' has some sex.ual undertone then I do not agree that this is permitted for those who are unmarried irrespective of their love, spiritual and 'psychic' compatibility. If two unmarried individuals believe they are meant for each other, then they should get married rather than being involved in fornication.


Thank you!

Good one @striktlymi.

there is a thing about male female relationship, if the rules are not followed we will carry on the "experiment" to the detriment of others and end up encroaching on the rights of others.

The question comes, how, where and when does one draw the line on having s.ex and not having se.x?

When do you conclude that this person is absolutely your compatible partner?

When you have concluded or thought so, is it not possible you may have missed something that can cause a change of heart?
What if you had already cross the line(had s.ex)?

And how many people will you repeat this scenerio with?

The circle goes on and on till only God knows how far it will go.

And wont this lead to abused and exploitation of the "weak" amongst us?

Lol. Better imagined than otherwise.

truthislight:

Good one @striktlymi.

there is a thing about male female relationship, if the dukes are not followed we will carry on the "experiment" to the detriment of others and end up encroaching on the of others.

The question comes, how, where and when does one drew the line on having s.ex and not having sex?

When do you conclude that this person is absolutely your compatible partner?

When you have concluded or thought so, is it not possible you may have missed something that can cause a change of heart?
What if you had already cross line(had s.ex)?

And how many people will you repeat this scenerio with?

The circle goes on and on till only God knows how far it will go.

And wont this lead to abused and exploitation of the "weak" amongst us?

Lol. Better imagined than otherwise.

I understand and agree with the above sir.

striktlymi:

Oh, now I understand sir,

I must confess that I know next to nothing about the beliefs of the "Grail message". I won't count what I know as knowledge cause it all 'boils down' to speculations. I guess this is something I need to remedy.

You will be the first "Grail message" faithful I will be coming in contact with. I hope our meeting online will give rise to a healthy and meaningful discuss.

I would have loved to learn more about the "Grail message" from you and probably do some research on my own but this thread is hardly the place for such as I believe I have really derailed the thread. Sorry about that @honey001.


Thank you!

No problem. We all learning..

truthislight:

Good one @striktlymi.

there is a thing about male female relationship, if the rules are not followed we will carry on the "experiment" to the detriment of others and end up encroaching on the rights of others.

The question comes, how, where and when does one draw the line on having s.ex and not having se.x?

When do you conclude that this person is absolutely your compatible partner?

When you have concluded or thought so, is it not possible you may have missed something that can cause a change of heart?
What if you had already cross the line(had s.ex)?

And how many people will you repeat this scenerio with?

The circle goes on and on till only God knows how far it will go.

And wont this lead to abused and exploitation of the "weak" amongst us?

Lol. Better imagined than otherwise.

Hi truthislight. The union of a man and a woman who are meant for each other according to the laws of GOD has nothing to do with free s.ex and experimentation. On the contrary such a union is consecrated by the power of GOD, a power which banishes all lustful thoughts and desires. A man or woman who is inwardly pure do not indulge in secret or open impure wishes and desires. Spiritually free human beings are not victims of the over cultivated s.exual instinct, rather the fact that their marriage is a union of soul mates enables the couples to attract and absorb the purifying powers of GOD. A couple that has absorbed of this power are transformed human beings whose only desire is to bring joy and happiness to the beloved and not to soil him or her with impure wishes and desires. Indeed a marriage that is made in heaven is the best solution to to cure man`s morbid s.exual instinct and return this instinct to its healthy state. S.exual instinct in its healthy state does not torment men, rather, it is a gift of GOD which finds consummation in unions that are in accord with the laws of GOD. S.exual desires arising from a healthy s.exual instinct does not often occur in men. Today, the instinct is diseased and morbid and that is the reason why many a man or woman find it difficult to control.It also the reason why many cannot be in a relationship without harboring open or secret s.exual desires.

The condition for a s.exual relationship according to the laws of GOD is that there has been previously set in motion a perfect spiritual harmony, ie, a marriage according to the laws of GOD. Therefore, the question of s.exually sampling one person after another is totally out of question. When two couples are meant for each other, then the chords holding them together are unbreakable, thus the permanence of the marriage is assured from the very start. The same unbreakable bond of love which has received a higher consecration from the power of GOD eliminates any desire for another man or another woman. The observation that couples in "married" or "unmarried" unions still openly or secretly harbour s.exual desires about another man or woman that is not his spouse or partner is an infallible sign that that marriage did not fulfill the criteria for a genuine marriage according to the laws of GOD, or that one or both partners have stagnated and have refused to develop spiritually, psychically and physically.

Young men and women who are in search of the person meant for them do not need to travel all the continents looking for a soul mate. If they allow the small still voice within them to grow and not forcefully silence it, then, they will very easily identify the man or woman who is their own according to the laws of GOD. Experiencing such a true marriage will give them the conviction that marriage is indeed made in heaven. Stay blessed.

Hmm...have never been to such weddings though, bt i dont see anythn wrong in me attending d wedding...shebi na dem fornicate? No be me nah...my own is to go there to show them my love and support, atleast dey get sense to do wedding. But on a serious note, it is wrong.

Oga Nwankwo, good day

the issue with this our discussion is that it has no reference point(authority , bible or something) tested and trusted.

i hope we will not just be expressing "ideals" in abstract talk.

m_nwankwo:

Hi truthislight. The union of a man and a woman who are meant for each other according to the laws of GOD has nothing to do with free s.ex and experimentation. On the contrary such a union is consecrated by the power of GOD, a power which banishes all lustful thoughts and desires. A man or woman who is inwardly pure do not indulge in secret or open impure wishes and desires.

exactly how do you practically do this?
(bible said human are imperfect, which is obvious)

m_nwankwo:
Spiritually free human beings are not victims of the over cultivated s.exual instinct, rather the fact that their marriage is a union of soul mates enables the couples to attract and absorb the purifying powers of GOD.

how do you possible that ^^^

m_nwankwo:
A couple that has absorbed of this power are transformed human beings whose only desire is to bring joy and happiness to the beloved and not to soil him or her with impure wishes and desires.

were are they?
(knowledge of God. No?) but you said "power"

m_nwankwo:
Indeed a marriage that is made in heaven is the best solution to to cure man`s morbid s.exual instinct and return this instinct to its healthy state.

be practical >> the process and state examples withreferences. Hope Not a closed group.

m_nwankwo:
S.exual instinct in its healthy state does not torment men, rather, it is a gift of GOD which finds consummation in unions that are in accord with the laws of GOD. S.exual desires arising from a healthy s.exual instinct does not often occur in men.

true, but right now human are inperfect, how can they manage?

m_nwankwo:
Today, the instinct is diseased and morbid and that is the reason why many a man or woman find it difficult to control.It also the reason why many cannot be in a relationship without harboring open or secret s.exual desires.

yes, imperfect human in disregard for the instruction and law of God(bible)

m_nwankwo:
The condition for a s.exual relationship according to the laws of GOD is that there has been previously set in motion a perfect spiritual harmony, ie, a marriage according to the laws of GOD.

exactly how?

m_nwankwo:
Therefore, the question of s.exually sampling one person after another is totally out of question.

yes it is, without a restrain(law) and control.
Have you ever given your 8yrs old kid absolute freedom? No. Try it.

Without law, how do you get that ^^?

m_nwankwo:
When two couples are meant for each other, then the chords holding them together are unbreakable,

at what point do they know this and how do they come to know this and know when to start having S.ex?

Be practical. Fancy and idealism will not help us.

m_nwankwo:
thus the permanence of the marriage is assured from the very start.

lol. How? Be practical sir.

m_nwankwo:
The same unbreakable bond of love which has received a higher consecration from the power of GOD eliminates any desire for another man or another woman.

consecration, consecration, how? vodoo?
Be practical sir.

m_nwankwo:
The observation that couples in "married" or "unmarried" unions still openly or secretly harbour s.exual desires about another man or woman that is not his spouse or partner is an infallible sign that that marriage did not fulfill the criteria for a genuine marriage according to the laws of GOD, or that one or both partners have stagnated and have refused to develop spiritually, psychically and physically.

yes, there is a failure, but it is a failure of imperfect humans failing to heed the law of God. No?

What do you mean by "develop Spiritually" by the way?

m_nwankwo:
Young men and women who are in search of the person meant for them do not need to travel all the continents looking for a soul mate.

why not? Afteral, every body have "a soul mate"!,
Should they not look for the one that is theirs? (according to you i mean)

must their soul mate be next door?

m_nwankwo:
If they allow the small still voice within them to grow and not forcefully silence it, then, they will very easily identify the man or woman who is their own according to the laws of GOD.

lol. "still voice" why still voice?
Is it because we are inperfect?
How does it tell you who is your wife "appointed or chosen" from heaven and no error?
No attraction, beauty, language or other consideration, you just know?

A one off perfect spot on and you can start having se.x

and one can never go wrong? how ?

m_nwankwo:
Experiencing such a true marriage will give them the conviction that marriage is indeed made in heaven. Stay blessed.

i know all others that red this will be wandering how?

I will want to tell you that what you pointed out are "idealism" a wished perfect scenerio.

My bible talked about God's kingdom, but you are talking about now.

Care to be practical? How
Hmmm!

m_nwankwo:

Hi truthislight. The union of a man and a woman who are meant for each other according to the laws of GOD has nothing to do with free s.ex and experimentation. On the contrary such a union is consecrated by the power of GOD, a power which banishes all lustful thoughts and desires. A man or woman who is inwardly pure do not indulge in secret or open impure wishes and desires. Spiritually free human beings are not victims of the over cultivated s.exual instinct, rather the fact that their marriage is a union of soul mates enables the couples to attract and absorb the purifying powers of GOD. A couple that has absorbed of this power are transformed human beings whose only desire is to bring joy and happiness to the beloved and not to soil him or her with impure wishes and desires. Indeed a marriage that is made in heaven is the best solution to to cure man`s morbid s.exual instinct and return this instinct to its healthy state. S.exual instinct in its healthy state does not torment men, rather, it is a gift of GOD which finds consummation in unions that are in accord with the laws of GOD. S.exual desires arising from a healthy s.exual instinct does not often occur in men. Today, the instinct is diseased and morbid and that is the reason why many a man or woman find it difficult to control.It also the reason why many cannot be in a relationship without harboring open or secret s.exual desires.

The condition for a s.exual relationship according to the laws of GOD is that there has been previously set in motion a perfect spiritual harmony, ie, a marriage according to the laws of GOD. Therefore, the question of s.exually sampling one person after another is totally out of question. When two couples are meant for each other, then the chords holding them together are unbreakable, thus the permanence of the marriage is assured from the very start. The same unbreakable bond of love which has received a higher consecration from the power of GOD eliminates any desire for another man or another woman. The observation that couples in "married" or "unmarried" unions still openly or secretly harbour s.exual desires about another man or woman that is not his spouse or partner is an infallible sign that that marriage did not fulfill the criteria for a genuine marriage according to the laws of GOD, or that one or both partners have stagnated and have refused to develop spiritually, psychically and physically.

Young men and women who are in search of the person meant for them do not need to travel all the continents looking for a soul mate. If they allow the small still voice within them to grow and not forcefully silence it, then, they will very easily identify the man or woman who is their own according to the laws of GOD. Experiencing such a true marriage will give them the conviction that marriage is indeed made in heaven. Stay blessed.

Hello MNwankwo,

Happy new year sir. I find this post fascinating and simply lovely! Question if I may, you mean a couple who is in a 'true marriage' will never be sexually attracted to someone else? as TruthisLight mentioned, where/how do make room for the shortcomings of men seeing the vast majority of the world does not see marriage like this?

Cheers.

Hi truthislight. Thanks for your reasoned reponse. Find below my take on some of the issues you raised

Oga Nwankwo, good day

the issue with this our discussion is that it has no reference point(authority , bible or something) tested and trusted.

i hope we will not just be expressing "ideals" in abstract talk.

Yes, I sparingly refer to authority in discussion on spirituality because each of us is a spirit and GOD endowed each of us the necessary spiritual faculties to know if something is in accord or in opposition to the will of GOD. Yes, what I say may appear ideal but I am aware that God have given us the ability to attain the so called ideal. Many have already being living in what you are referring as ideal marriage. Thus, I do not see what is impractical about that.

exactly how do you practically do this?
(bible said human are imperfect, which is obvious)

How does a tendril of yam seek sunlight once a yam seed is sowed in a fertile soil? Seeking the sunlight is natural to it because that is the way GOD made it. The union of a man and a woman who are meant for each other follows the same process as a tendril of yam. They are drawn to the purifying powers of GOD just like a tendril of yam is drawn to sunlight. The s.exual intinct is relegated to where it naturally belongs. Man was not created imperfect and whatever imperfection you find in man is brought about by man himself by the misapplication of his free will. Man can restore himself to "perfection" by aligning his free will with the will of GOD. If one swim in sync with the water current, one will be carried ashore with effortless ease. If one swim against the current, one will dissipate all his energy and will get drowned. The same applies to how one applies himself to the laws of GOD. My point is that being in a union with one that the laws of GOD meant for you permits one to conquer the morbidity of over cultivated s.exual instinct. I can give practical guidance but giving a set of do`s and dont`s often get people fixated to the concepts and impedes the mobility of the spirit. Spiritual mobility is an indispensable requirement for genuine spiritual growth.

be practical >> the process and state examples withreferences. Hope Not a closed group.

See my response above. There is no person on earth today who have not at one time or the other, in this life or in former incarnation experienced true love and genuine marriage. The knowledge slumbers deep in the soul and all that one needs to do is awaken the spirit. Then in himself or herself one will find the evidence that once their is true marriage as I tried to explain in this thread, one ceases to be a slave to s.exual desires. Even in your own religious denomination, if you look around, you will find couples who are already in a GOD willed marriage. Ask them about their experiences.

true, but right now human are inperfect, how can they manage?

There are many human beings already living in our mist who are no longer slave to the s.exual instint. The idea that humans are imperfect and have no control over the s.exual instinct is erroneous. This view is one that is spread by Lucifer and his agents so as to lull humans into the the delusion that they are helpless in these matters. No, we are not helpless, for the power of GOD is always ready to free anyone from the bondage of sexual propepensity provided such a person asks for such a help genuinely and humbly.

yes it is, without a restrain(law) and control.
Have you ever given your 8yrs old kid absolute freedom? No. Try it.

Without law, how do you get that ^^?

The laws of GOD are alive in the spirit. A human spirit that is incapable of sensing the laws of GOD in himself or herself is already spiritually dead. Many humans can still sense the laws of GOD that are indelibly written in their spirit. The laws of GOD that are written in our spirit are much more powerful and can transform a man to being a servant of GOD. Rules, or earthly laws will never achieve that. At best they lead to temporary solutions akin to treating symptoms of infection rather than the infectious agent.

till voice" why still voice?
Is it because we are inperfect?
How does it tell you who is your wife "appointed or chosen" from heaven and no error?
No attraction, beauty, language or other consideration, you just know?

A one off perfect spot on and you can start having se.x

and one can never go wrong? how ?

Yes, you just know. God endowed each of us with a spiritual faculty which is called intuition. The intuition is capable of instantaneous knowing and awareness without thoughts, words or imagination. I have millions of experiences where I instantaneously become aware of events, circumstances, etc without given it a thought. Many others have similar experiences and there is nothing abstract or magical about it. God did not send us to these lower worlds without fully equipping us.

i know all others that red this will be wandering how?

I will want to tell you that what you pointed out are "idealism" a wished perfect scenerio.

My bible talked about God's kingdom, but you are talking about now.

Care to be practical? How
Hmmm!

There is nothing that I have said in this thread that is idealistic or unattainable. Here and now, some human beings irrespective of religion are already living as if they are in the spiritual kingdom of GOD. Open your eyes and ears and you will meet some of them as you go through your own experiences. Stay blessed.

JeSoul:

Hello MNwankwo,

Happy new year sir. I find this post fascinating and simply lovely! Question if I may, you mean a couple who is in a 'true marriage' will never be sexually attracted to someone else? as TruthisLight mentioned, where/how do make room for the shortcomings of men seeing the vast majority of the world does not see marriage like this?

Cheers.

Hi JeSoul. My sister, happy new year to you too. Thank you for your kind words. Yes, a couple in a true marriage will not be s.exually attracted to some one else. The bond between such a husband and wife is of a "frequency" or "wavelength" that is different from that that emanates from others that are single, in non-genuine marriages and other genuine marriages. Now genuine marriage is not static but mobile and that means that the couples involved must continue to strengthen their love for one another and for GOD, as well as further develop those innate qualities which made them spiritually and psychically compatible in the first place. If one or both become negligent, stagnate or willfully refuse to further develop, then the living connection which their union established with the power of GOD begin to loosen, the strong bonds brought about by their genuine love and compatible qualities begin to weaken. They weaken because they are no longer maintained due to negligence, stagnation or indolence. Because of the weakened bond as I explained above, impure thoughts about others can begin to arise. Initially it may just be faint but if the couple continue to weaken the bonds as I explained above, then slowly but inevitably, a marriage that was once genuine no longer exists even though the couples may not be aware of it in the earthly sense. Thus what was once a genuine marriage may end up in divorce or in a soulless non-genuine marriage where all happiness have departed from them.

It is for this reason that we are admonished to "watch and pray". A bird in flight must continue to flab its wings to maintain itself in flight. If the bird loses its alertness and willfully refuse to flab its wings, it will start to descend and will fatally crash to the ground. This crude analogy can be applied to genuine marriages where the couples suddenly stagnate or refuse to further develop and mature the qualities that GOD endowed them with. Motion is a law of creation and there is no exception. Thus if a couple in genuine marriage start having s.exual feelings about others in thoughts, words, intent, imagination,physical action, then something has gone wrong and unless they muster all strength to strengthen the bond linking both of them, as well as the bond linking them to GOD, then these bonds will finally be cut off and the genuine marriage ceases to exist. "Watch and pray" are no empty words. It is a sacred call to spiritual mobility and alertness. As always stay blessed.

m_nwankwo:

Hi JeSoul. My sister, happy new year to you too. Thank you for your kind words. Yes, a couple in a true marriage will not be s.exually attracted to some one else. The bond between such a husband and wife is of a "frequency" or "wavelength" that is different from that that emanates from others that are single, in non-genuine marriages and other genuine marriages. Now genuine marriage is not static but mobile and that means that the couples involved must continue to strengthen their love for one another and for GOD, as well as further develop those innate qualities which made them spiritually and psychically compatible in the first place. If one or both become negligent, stagnate or willfully refuse to further develop, then the living connection which their union established with the power of GOD begin to loosen, the strong bonds brought about by their genuine love and compatible qualities begin to weaken. They weaken because they are no longer maintained due to negligence, stagnation or indolence. Because of the weakened bond as I explained above, impure thoughts about others can begin to arise. Initially it may just be faint but if the couple continue to weaken the bonds as I explained above, then slowly but inevitably, a marriage that was once genuine no longer exists even though the couples may not be aware of it in the earthly sense. Thus what was once a genuine marriage may end up in divorce or in a soulless non-genuine marriage where all happiness have departed from them.

It is for this reason that we are admonished to "watch and pray". A bird in flight must continue to flab its wings to maintain itself in flight. If the bird loses its alertness and willfully refuse to flab its wings, it will start to descend and will fatally crash to the ground. This crude analogy can be applied to genuine marriages where the couples suddenly stagnate or refuse to further develop and mature the qualities that GOD endowed them with. Motion is a law of creation and there is no exception. Thus if a couple in genuine marriage start having s.exual feelings about others in thoughts, words, intent, imagination,physical action, then something has gone wrong and unless they muster all strength to strengthen the bond linking both of them, as well as the bond linking them to GOD, then these bonds will finally be cut off and the genuine marriage ceases to exist. "Watch and pray" are no empty words. It is a sacred call to spiritual mobility and alertness. As always stay blessed.

Very powerful stance. Thank you for elaborating. This is something I have quietly thought much about and to hear it expressed like this is a blessing. Thank you! I pray God grants us the grace to do according to His perfect will.

honey001:
Agreed with u on dis. Church wedding is out of it, it's court wedding definitely.

^
Please, what is the difference between "church" and "court" wedding?

aletheia:
^
Please, what is the difference between "church" and "court" wedding?

Well... one is in front of 'christians' and the other is not .

JeSoul: Well... one is in front of 'christians' and the other is not .

So if "christians" decide to attend a "court' wedding, it becomes equivalent to "church"? After all, where two or three. . .

aletheia:
So if "christians" decide to attend a "court' wedding, it becomes equivalent to "church"? After all, where two or three. . .

By the nigerian definition? I don't think so oh. It goes by the building where you're present in...

*abeg no mind me, I'm just having fun *

JeSoul: By the nigerian definition? I don't think so oh. It goes by the building where you're present in...

*abeg no mind me, I'm just having fun *

I know. The reason I asked to perhaps help highlight the hypocritical stance inherent in some of our "christian" traditions.

We need to consider this. . .
And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Joh 8:3-7

JeSoul: Very powerful stance. Thank you for elaborating. This is something I have quietly thought much about and to hear it expressed like this is a blessing. Thank you! I pray God grants us the grace to do according to His perfect will.

Hi JeSoul. Thanks again for you kind words. I say Amen to your prayer. Stay blessed.

M_Nwankwo your views are very deep and yet very simple and in my personal opinion I think there is a part within us whether Christian or Muslim which believes this but religion, societal norms especially in Africa make people feel stifled and inadequate if they fail to conform with the status quo.

I thought deeply on this subject recently. As a Christian I will speak from a christian standpoint, I believe that your actions should not hurt others and there are promises in the bible (for those of us who are Christians) for those who honour their parents, therefore a couple who choose to marry after fulfilling all the 'rites'are doing this to set a good example for others and to honor their parents (we all know how happy and proud mothers are on the wedding day). It seems as if it is all a show for others but we must live an exemplary life and take the feelings of others into consideration. So when the family of an Igbo bride give the groom a list worth half a milion Naira and he hustles for the money and gets it I think he is blessed for honoring her culture and kinsmen. just my opinion though.

m_nwankwo:

Hi JeSoul. My sister, happy new year to you too. Thank you for your kind words. Yes, a couple in a true marriage will not be s.exually attracted to some one else. The bond between such a husband and wife is of a "frequency" or "wavelength" that is different from that that emanates from others that are single, in non-genuine marriages and other genuine marriages. Now genuine marriage is not static but mobile and that means that the couples involved must continue to strengthen their love for one another and for GOD, as well as further develop those innate qualities which made them spiritually and psychically compatible in the first place. If one or both become negligent, stagnate or willfully refuse to further develop, then the living connection which their union established with the power of GOD begin to loosen, the strong bonds brought about by their genuine love and compatible qualities begin to weaken. They weaken because they are no longer maintained due to negligence, stagnation or indolence. Because of the weakened bond as I explained above, impure thoughts about others can begin to arise. Initially it may just be faint but if the couple continue to weaken the bonds as I explained above, then slowly but inevitably, a marriage that was once genuine no longer exists even though the couples may not be aware of it in the earthly sense. Thus what was once a genuine marriage may end up in divorce or in a soulless non-genuine marriage where all happiness have departed from them.

It is for this reason that we are admonished to "watch and pray". A bird in flight must continue to flab its wings to maintain itself in flight. If the bird loses its alertness and willfully refuse to flab its wings, it will start to descend and will fatally crash to the ground. This crude analogy can be applied to genuine marriages where the couples suddenly stagnate or refuse to further develop and mature the qualities that GOD endowed them with. Motion is a law of creation and there is no exception. Thus if a couple in genuine marriage start having s.exual feelings about others in thoughts, words, intent, imagination,physical action, then something has gone wrong and unless they muster all strength to strengthen the bond linking both of them, as well as the bond linking them to GOD, then these bonds will finally be cut off and the genuine marriage ceases to exist. "Watch and pray" are no empty words. It is a sacred call to spiritual mobility and alertness. As always stay blessed.

Oga Nwankwo, good day.

I never said that people cannot have an "Ideal" marriage or close to ideal.

I said that, people have to keep to the laws as to avoid encroaching on other peoples right, and remove deliberate abuse and exploitation resulting from experimentation from premarital S.ex.

What is wrong if all sort of people wait to be properly married befor beginning with the act of S.ex?

Must one enter into s.exual activity with the notion of marriage and later finds out incompatibility issues and dissolves the engagement and start another?

Such vicious circles is avoidable only if people are willing to key into a trusted and tested reliable source of moral guidance.

What you are projecting, is it for real? Are we not leaving in this planet earth?
Are we strangers as to not know the realities of things?

The truth is that without reliable laws to guide human we are at a lost and this applies to all sphere of human endeavours including courtship and s.ex.

m_nwankwo:
The union of a man and a woman who are meant for each other follows the same process as a tendril of yam.

you dont tell me? Is that true or you are advertising "abstract" idealism?

m_nwankwo:
They are drawn to the purifying powers of GOD just like a tendril of yam is drawn to sunlight. The s.exual intinct is relegated to where it naturally belongs.

lol.
You cant be serious.
Is that true and real?
That human s.exual urges dies due to whatever you project untill you meet the "perfect" mating mate?

I thing what you are projecting is inherently flawed since it is not in consonant with human nature but is appealing to ideal human wishes and expectation.

m_nwankwo:
Man was not created imperfect and whatever imperfection

yes,
man was not created imperfect, but man brought imperfection to himself as it is obvious to all of us from the reality on ground that we all make mistakes, even in the judgement of potential marriage mate cum sexual partner. As such, it is very much advisable to exercise restrain during courtship befor iniating s.ex, and that when one has made sure of all things and marriage is ensured/convananted.

m_nwankwo:
you find in man is brought about by man himself by the misapplication of his free will.

agreed.

So, what is the way forward since we humans have brought imperfection to ourself?

Is it not to follow the interim remedial laws provided by God or to start acting as though we are perfect?

m_nwankwo:
Man can restore himself to "perfection" by aligning his free will with the will of GOD.

what?
can the one sold ransom himself?

That is why i had said we cannot just be projecting things without a reliable scale as reference.

My bible tells me that without blood there is no forgiveness of sin.

What did Jesus christ do? Was it a west of his time?

Do you believe in the bible? If i may ask.

m_nwankwo:
If one swim in sync with the water current, one will be carried ashore with effortless ease. If one swim against the current, one will dissipate all his energy and will get drowned. The same applies to how one applies himself to the laws of GOD.

if we know how to become perfect why then do we need the christ?

Assumption from imaginations cannot fixe our situation but rather, practical procedures will.

All those into spiritism all through human history were still imperfect and having marital issues, as such, your "spiritual" projections still falls into the "lot"

m_nwankwo:
My point is that being in a union with one that the laws of GOD meant for you permits one to conquer the morbidity of over cultivated s.exual instinct.

how? You have not yet shown how. Must i become a convert first? Smh.

"Christianity" is practical and shows "the how" to attain perfection.

m_nwankwo:
I can give practical guidance but giving a set of do`s and dont`s often get people fixated to the concepts and impedes the mobility of the spirit.

Hmmm!

It has limitations? I see.

m_nwankwo:
Spiritual mobility is an indispensable requirement for genuine spiritual growth.

we have heard such befor and all the times, nothing new.

Some people have tried it befor only to fall into uncontrol sexu.al escaped. (satanic)

please, state the process like christianity does, please.

Peace.

m_nwankwo:

Hi JeSoul. My sister, happy new year to you too. Thank you for your kind words. Yes, a couple in a true marriage will not be s.exually attracted to some one else. The bond between such a husband and wife is of a "frequency" or "wavelength" that is different from that that emanates from others that are single, in non-genuine marriages and other genuine marriages. Now genuine marriage is not static but mobile and that means that the couples involved must continue to strengthen their love for one another and for GOD, as well as further develop those innate qualities which made them spiritually and psychically compatible in the first place. If one or both become negligent, stagnate or willfully refuse to further develop, then the living connection which their union established with the power of GOD begin to loosen, the strong bonds brought about by their genuine love and compatible qualities begin to weaken. They weaken because they are no longer maintained due to negligence, stagnation or indolence. Because of the weakened bond as I explained above, impure thoughts about others can begin to arise. Initially it may just be faint but if the couple continue to weaken the bonds as I explained above, then slowly but inevitably, a marriage that was once genuine no longer exists even though the couples may not be aware of it in the earthly sense. Thus what was once a genuine marriage may end up in divorce or in a soulless non-genuine marriage where all happiness have departed from them.

It is for this reason that we are admonished to "watch and pray". A bird in flight must continue to flab its wings to maintain itself in flight. If the bird loses its alertness and willfully refuse to flab its wings, it will start to descend and will fatally crash to the ground. This crude analogy can be applied to genuine marriages where the couples suddenly stagnate or refuse to further develop and mature the qualities that GOD endowed them with. Motion is a law of creation and there is no exception. Thus if a couple in genuine marriage start having s.exual feelings about others in thoughts, words, intent, imagination,physical action, then something has gone wrong and unless they muster all strength to strengthen the bond linking both of them, as well as the bond linking them to GOD, then these bonds will finally be cut off and the genuine marriage ceases to exist. "Watch and pray" are no empty words. It is a sacred call to spiritual mobility and alertness. As always stay blessed.

of what value then was there of a "union ordained" from heaven?

What will happened to a union in which the laws of God is not kept as stated in the bible though the parties are imperfect?

Same thing, failure

Hi truthislight. Thanks for your reasoned response. I have nothing more to add as I know there are enough information in my posts on this thread for one to make an assessment of the truth or otherwise in them. Besides, if one already have the answers to these issues or ones religion has already provided the answers, then one should follow what his religion prescribed. As one follows the prescription, experiences will teach him or her whether such a prescription is in accord with the truth. Stay blessed.

parisienne: M_Nwankwo your views are very deep and yet very simple and in my personal opinion I think there is a part within us whether Christian or Muslim which believes this but religion, societal norms especially in Africa make people feel stifled and inadequate if they fail to conform with the status quo.

I thought deeply on this subject recently. As a Christian I will speak from a christian standpoint, I believe that your actions should not hurt others and there are promises in the bible (for those of us who are Christians) for those who honour their parents, therefore a couple who choose to marry after fulfilling all the 'rites'are doing this to set a good example for others and to honor their parents (we all know how happy and proud mothers are on the wedding day). It seems as if it is all a show for others but we must live an exemplary life and take the feelings of others into consideration. So when the family of an Igbo bride give the groom a list worth half a milion Naira and he hustles for the money and gets it I think he is blessed for honoring her culture and kinsmen. just my opinion though.

Hi parisienne. Thank you for your kind words. What is paramount for the spiritual maturity of each individual is obedience to the will of GOD. If a human being know of the will of GOD in any circumstance, then such a person has the sacred duty to obey the will of GOD. Those who live according to the will of GOD bring only joy, enlightenment and progress to their societies and culture. In reality, culture is not a set of customs and rules decreed by a particular society, rather culture is the transformation of what we absorb out of the will of GOD into earthly realities. I will write about of this in details someday. In my previous posts on this thread, I have said that there is nothing wrong in obeying the prevailing religious, legal, or societal stipulation for marriage provided that hey are not in conflict with what the couples know to be the will of GOD. I also stated that these ceremonies are not the marriage itself, rather they are requirements for the church, society or custom to recognize the union as valid. Genuine marriage as I explained in this thread is consecrated, and made valid by GOD once the couples fulfill the requirement for a genuine marriage as I explained previously. Purely for legal reasons, they can seek the approval of their marriage by going to the registry. They can also inform their friends, families or church by having some form of church or customary wedding. There is nothing wrong in all this. However what is wrong and erroneous is to think that couples who are married genuinely according to the laws of GOD are "living in sin" because they did not perform any of these earthly ceremonies at all or the wife became pregnant before these earthly or religious ceremonies were to take place.

Somehow, it is "good" that the inner senses of most people are closed for were it open, many will shake there heads at the brazen hypocrisy of many a man or woman. If the veils are torn, one will see that some of the couples being condemned as "living in sin" are as pure as one could imagine while those condemning them have heinous immoral sins in around them often in distorted shapes and colors. All of us carry within us and around us all our sins and this can be seen by one whose inner eyes are open. Often what we project ourselves to be is contrast to what we are. It comes as a rude shock to one once inner faculties are open to see the glaring contradiction between what people are and what they project themselves to be. Although this is serious, it also have some dramatic effect. Just imagine a very "pious religious lady" sermonizing and condemning a couple for getting pregnant outside an earthly wedlock, and yet in and around her are various sins of immorality in grotesque shapes and sizes. One can also see that this "pious lady" have committed several abortions as forms resembling that of little children hang on her neck.

Yes, honor thy father and mother is in a commandment of GOD but in my own sensing the general interpretation that this commandment is directed to children is wrong. My conviction is that this commandment of GOD is directed to parents in the first place and it actually means "Honor fatherhood and motherhood". To honor fatherhood and motherhood simply means that mothers and fathers or potential parents or guardians should live in such an exemplary manner as to awaken in their children or children of others the unquenchable longing for GOD and his will. When such children look into their parents eyes as well as in whatever their parents or guardians do, they will see selfless love, beauty, humility, compassion, etc. The parents or guardians thus become a living example of what it means to love GOD with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself. If parents honor fatherhood and motherhood, then in reciprocity the children will honor them. The whole household will only know of joy and supreme happiness for the light of GOD is now anchored in both the parents and the kids. This anchorage of light is like a shield which protects the children from all evil volition and evil until the reach the age to decide for themselves. This shield also prevents the incarnation of dark spirits into these homes.

Now many parents have not kept this commandment of GOD, hence the disaster that we see today in many homes. An irresponsible father who spends most of his time in clubs and comes home drunk is not obeying this commandment. An abusive father who emotionally and physically torments his wife is not obeying the commandment. A mother who flirts about with men and turns the entire household into a depressive state with her antics is not obeying this commandment. Children brought up in such a home end up being spiritually, psychologically and physically damaged. And for parents who first inflicted this unpardonable damage on there kids to demand honor-ship defies all understanding.

Parents who are still alive in their inner being will not demand that the husband of their daughter should pay "an arm and a leg" for them to bless the marriage. Their daughter is not a property to be sold. She is an equal and complimentary being to the man. Bride price should be seen as a symbolic demonstration to the parents of bride that the bridegroom is thankful to them for bringing up his wife accordingly, for giving her the opportunity to be the best she can possibly be in the sense of the laws of GOD. This symbolic thanks can be expressed in words, money or gifts. More enlightened parents even in Igboland do not take any money or gift. They simple want a promise from their son in law that he will love and cherish their daughter. If mother and father in law are interested in the happiness of their daughter and their son in law, they should encourage them to love one another. High pride price, lavish parties and other mundane ceremonies for which many a couple and their families spend much resources on contribute nothing to a happily married life. When all the guests are gone and families and friends go back to their daily routine after these festivities, then the husband and wife are left alone to navigate their future. Only the qualities inherent in both and the grace of GOD will see them through, not the lavish parties and other "frivolities" which they did consider important. As always stay blessed.

aletheia:
So if "christians" decide to attend a "court' wedding, it becomes equivalent to "church"? After all, where two or three. . .

ithink you forgot to add IN MY NAME! Just thinking,

people listening to grail? its January 24, 2013 i suppose.

The most useful posts on this thread, to me, are here and there from Aletheia, Jesoul and M_Nwankwo. God bless you guys.

@OP: I think if Jesus knew & loved the person He would have attended the marriage. What's done is done, it's senseless to "refuse to marry" them on such grounds. I can't even find any such Biblical reference for such an action (except of course the Old Testament where it is even clearly stated that when a man has impregnated a woman he must be made to marry her, and religiously for that matter).