Salam,

most often,we are asked about how Imam Ali (as) viewed some of the companions disliked by the Shia and held in high regards by Sunnis.Sunnis often (even in this forum) would point out that did Imam Ali (as) hold an opposition view and animosity towards these particular men among the companions (i.e. Abu Bakr and Umar).therefore,i want my dear friend tbaba,to kindly explain this hadith (below),which is found in Sahih Muslim,one of the two most authentic and reliable books for our Sunni brothers.

Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4349:

It is reported by Zuhri that this tradition was narrated to him by Malik b. Aus who said: Then he (Yarfa') came again and said: "What do you say about 'Ali and Abbas (who are present at the door)? He said: Yes, and permitted them to enter.When the Messenger of Allah pbuh passed away, Abu Bakr said:" I am the successor(arabic wali ) of the Messenger of Allah pbuh." Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr said: The Messenger of Allah pbuh had said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." So both of you (i.e. Imam Ali and al-Abbass) thought him to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest . And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and (I have become) the successor of the Messenger of Allah pbuh and Abu Bakr, you thought me to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that I am true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. I became the guardian of this property".

I have tried to understand the message of the hadith but I couldn't so I cant comment for nw, waiting for more knowledgeable users here.

When next u decide quoting a text, u owe it to those you quote the text to the right to know the entire text: which is as follows:


Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number
4349:
It is reported by Zuhri that this
tradition was narrated to him by
Malik b. Aus who said: Umar b. al-
Khattab sent for me and I came to
him when the day had advanced. I
found him in his house sitting on his
bare bed-stead, reclining on a
leather pillow. He said (to me):
“Malik, some people of your tribe
have hastened to me (with a request
for help). I have ordered a little
money for them. Take it and
distribute it among them.” I said: “I
wish you had ordered somebody else
to do this job.” He said: “Malik, take
it (and do what you have been told).”
At this moment (his man-servant)
Yarfa’ came in and said:
“Commander of the Faithful, what do
you say about Uthman, Abd al-
Rabman b. ‘Auf, Zubair and Sa’d
(who have come to seek an audience
with you)?” He said: “Yes, and
permitted them.” So they entered.
Then he (Yarfa’) came again and
said: “What do you say about ‘Ali and
Abbas (who are present at the door)
?” He said: “Yes,” and permitted
them to enter. Abbas said:
“Commander of the Faithful,
decide (the dispute) between
me and this sinful, treacherous,
dishonest liar (Ali).” The people
(who were present) also said: “Yes,
Commander of the Faithful, do
decide (the dispute) and have mercy
on them.” Malik b. Aus said: “I could
well imagine that they had sent
them in advance for this purpose (by
‘Ali and Abbas).” ‘Umar said: “Wait
and be patient. I adjure you by Allah
by Whose order the heavens and the
earth are sustained, don’t you know
that the Messenger of Allah (may
peace be upon him) said: ‘We
(prophets) do not have any heirs;
what we leave behind is (to be given
in) charity?’” They said: “Yes.” Then
he turned to Abbas and ‘Ali and said:
“I adjure you both by Allah by Whose
order the heavens and earth are
sustained, don’t you know that the
Messenger of Allah (may peace be
upon him) said: ‘We do not have any
heirs; what we leave behind is (to be
given in) charity?’” They (too) said:
“Yes.” (Then) Umar said: “Allah, the
Glorious and Exalted, had done to His
Messenger (may peace be upon him)
a special favor that He has not done
to anyone else except him.” He
quoted the Quranic verse: “What
Allah has bestowed upon His Apostle
from (the properties) of the people
of township is for Allah and His
Messenger.” The narrator said: “I do
not know whether he also recited the
previous verse or not.” Umar
continued: “The Messenger of Allah
(may peace be upon him) distributed
among you the properties
abandoned by Banu Nadir. By Allah,
he never preferred himself over you
and never appropriated anything to
your exclusion. (After a fair
distribution in this way) this property
was left over.
“The Messenger of Allah (may peace
be upon him) would meet from its
income his annual expenditure, and
what remained would be deposited
in the Bait-ul-Mal.” (Continuing
further) he said: “I adjure you by
Allah by Whose order the heavens
and the earth are sustained. Do you
know this?” They said: “Yes.” Then
he adjured Abbas and ‘All as he had
adjured the other persons and
asked: “Do you both know this?”
They said: “Yes.” He said: “When the
Messenger of Allah (may peace be
upon him) passed away, Abu Bakr
said: ‘I am the successor of the
Messenger of Allah (may peace be
upon him).’ Both of you came to
demand your shares from the
property (left behind by the
Messenger of Allah).” (Referring to
Hadrat ‘Abbas), he said: “You
demanded your share from the
property of your nephew, and he
(referring to ‘Ali) demanded a share
on behalf of his wife from the
property of her father. Abu Bakr
(Allah be pleased with him) said:
‘The Messenger of Allah (may peace
be upon him) had said: We do not
have any heirs; what we leave
behind is (to be given in) charity.’ So
both of you (Ali and Abbas)
thought him (Abu Bakr) to be a
liar, sinful, treacherous, and
dishonest. And Allah knows that he
was true, virtuous, well-guided and a
follower of truth. When Abu Bakr
passed away and (I have become)
the successor of the Messenger of
Allah (may peace be upon him) and
Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him)
, you (Ali and Abbas) thought
me (Umar) to be a liar, sinful,
treacherous, and dishonest. And
Allah knows that I am true, virtuous,
well-guided and a follower of truth. I
became the guardian of this
property. Then you as well as he
came to me. Both of you have come
and your purpose is identical. You
said: Entrust the property to us. I
said: If you wish that I should entrust
it to you, it will be on the condition
that both of you will undertake to
abide by a pledge made with Allah
that you will use it in the same way
as the Messenger of Allah (may
peace be upon him) used it. So both
of you got it.” He said: “Wasn’t it like
this?” They said: “Yes.” He said:
“Then you have (again) come to me
with the request that I should
adjudge between you. No, by Allah. I
will not give any other judgment
except this until the arrival of the
Doomsday. If you are unable to hold
the property on this condition, return
it to me.”


The Hadith can thus be broken down into
relevant parts:
1) Abbas calls Ali to be a “liar, sinful,
treacherous, and dishonest”
2) Umar repeats the words of Abbas and
says that Ali and Abbas thought of Abu
Bakr and Umar to be “liar[s], sinful,
treacherous, and dishonest”

Truth is what stopped u from quoting the part of the hadith where Abbas called Ali such and such? Isn't this the peak of dishonesty from your path?

If u find this hadith extremely reliable and find it as proof beyond reasonable doubt that the Rightly guided caliphs are bad, then equally it serves as the proof against Ali and in this case it carries more weight seeing that Abbas is actually Ali's r.a relative, hence it shatters your infallible imam credentials etc! Hopefully u get the picture!

For others, the hadith is also capture in Sahih Bukhari, excluding the above words of liar etc, and Sahih Bukhari carries more weight than Muslim in other words it is the most authentic of them all hence, compounding the hadith woe its narrator says;

“The narrator said: I do not know
whether he also recited the previous
verse or not.”
(Sahih Muslim)

So the shia can either stick to the Sahih Bukhari version or Muslim anyway the implication of accepting such would better is yours alone to bear!

These shia people, always looking for argument. JazakAllahu khair vedaxcool. Anyone who needs an explanation should send me an email at tbaba1234@yahoo.com.

Assalamu aleikum.

^^^Why don't you like posting your points on this section?

tbaba1234: These shia people, always looking for argument. JazakAllahu khair vedaxcool. Anyone who needs an explanation should send me an email at tbaba1234@yahoo.com.

Assalamu aleikum.

please I asked you to comment,and not anyone else because I believe you're a sane person.it is clear from the hadith I posted who is calling who names.but I want your explanation.not the explanation of someone who would use parenthesis to insert the name of Imam Ali (as) into the hadith.the hadith I copied was from a Sunni forum.i copied it as I saw it.i never knew it wasn't complete.insha'Allah in my next post I will find the narration and post it.the version in sahih bukhari (to conceal the insults used on abu bakr),the heavy words are replaced.regardless,i look forward to your reply.

so please I just need you to explain.if I wanted argument,i'd have replied Vedaxcool and the comic response making use of parenthesis, he copied from somewhere.even at that,it is ironic one sahaba is caling another sahaba "liar,sinful,treacherous",regardless if its Abbass (ra) calling Imam Ali (as) names,since to the Sunnis the sahaba are all worthy of emulation.two wrongs don't make a right,by claiming even Imam Ali (as) was insulted.as for us,the superiority of Imam Ali (as) to al-Abbass (ra) is well established (from the Quran and prophetic narrations) in terms of knowledge,piety and truthfulness.it has to do with your Sunni position,from any way you look at it.and I know the use of parenthesis is dishonest and it wasn't Imam Ali (as) referred to,and bukhari replacing the insults placed against abu bakr is also dishonest.in reality,there was no dispute between al-Abbass (ra) and Imam Ali (as),and both later on continued to doubt Abu Bakr's claim and disputed it,and came to Umar (who became caliph after abu bakr) with the same demand for fadak.it is so obvious Abu Bakr's claim that prophets leave no inheritance and have no heirs,was rejected by Imam Ali (as).

like ive been repeating,i need your clarification on the hadith.i will find the narration myself and let you give us your opinion.

Sahih Muslim,Book 019, Number 4349:

It is reported by Zuhri that this tradition was narrated to him by Malik b. Aus who said: Umar b. al-Khattab sent for me and I came to him when the day had advanced. I found him in his house sitting on his bare bed-stead, reclining on a leather pillow. He said (to me): Malik, some people of your tribe have hastened to me (with a request for help). I have ordered a little money for them. Take it and distribute it among them. I said: I wish you had ordered somebody else to do this job. He said: Malik, take it (and do what you have been told). At this moment (his man-servant) Yarfa' came in and said: Commander of the Faithful, what do you say about Uthman, Abd al-Rabman b. 'Auf, Zubair and Sa'd (who have come to seek an audience with you)? He said: Yes, and permitted them. so they entered. Then he (Yarfa') came again and said: What do you say about 'Ali and Abbas (who are present at the door)? He said: Yes, and permitted them to enter. Abbas said: Commander of the Faithful, decide (the dispute) between me and this sinful, treacherous, dishonest liar. The people (who were present) also said: Yes. Commander of the Faithful, do decide (the dispute) and have mercy on them. Malik b. Aus said: I could well imagine that they had sent them in advance for this purpose (by 'Ali and Abbas). 'Umar said: Wait and be patient. I adjure you by Allah by Whose order the heavens and the earth are sustained, don't you know that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:" We (prophets) do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity"? They said: Yes. Then he turned to Abbas and 'Ali and said: I adjure you both by Allah by Whose order the heavens and earth are sustained, don't you know that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity"? They (too) said: Yes. (Then) Umar said: Allah, the Glorious and Exalted, had done to His Messenger (may peace be upon him) a special favour that He has not done to anyone else except him. He quoted the Qur'anic verse:" What Allah has bestowed upon His Apostle from (the properties) of the people of township is for Allah and His Messenger". The narrator said: I do not know whether he also recited the previous verse or not. Umar continued: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) distrbuted among you the properties abandoned by Banu Nadir. By Allah, he never preferred himself over you and never appropriated anything to your exclusion. (After a fair distribution in this way) this property was left over.

The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) would meet from its income his annual expenditure, and what remained would be deposited in the Bait-ul-Mal. (Continuing further) he said: I adjure you by Allah by Whose order the heavens and the earth are sustained. Do you know this? They said: Yes. Then he adjured Abbas and 'All as he had adjured the other persons and asked: Do you both know this? They said: Yes. He said: When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) passed away, Abu Bakr said:" I am the successor of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)." Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to Hadrat 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) had said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." So both of you thought him to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and (I have become) the successor of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him), you thought me to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that I am true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. I became the guardian of this property. Then you as well as he came to me. Both of you have come and your purpose is identical. You said: Entrust the property to us. I said: If you wish that I should entrust it to you, it will be on the condition that both of you will undertake to abide by a pledge made with Allah that you will use it in the same way as the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used it. So both of you got it. He said: Wasn't it like this? They said: Yes. He said: Then you have (again) come to me with the request that I should adjudge between you. No, by Allah. I will not give any other judgment except this until the arrival of the Doomsday. If you are unable to hold the property on this condition, return it to me.

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/019-smt.php

tbaba1234: These shia people, always looking for argument. JazakAllahu khair vedaxcool. Anyone who needs an explanation should send me an email at tbaba1234@yahoo.com.

Assalamu aleikum.

Amin. Thanks

@tbaba

so the purpose of this thread is clarified.i'm not going to analyze the hadith in Sahih Muslim,to point out who is a liar and who is not,and what is acceptable or not.

I opened this thread as a reminder to another thread you started.here it is:

"My Heroes: The Companions Of The Prophet"
https://www.nairaland.com/820316/heroes-companions-prophet/1

can a group of people different in many aspects,who among them are some individuals that are "liars, sinful, treacherous and dishonest",be considered as "heroes" without distinction? this is the only question I have for you now.if you (tbaba) answer it,then if you wish we can analyze the hadith and talk about Fadak.

♚ƒԐLis-c∆tus:
^^^Why don't you like posting your points on this section?

It should be obvious. Count the number of posts by different people. How many try to teach the religion? How many try to argue about people, heroes, differences etc

Think about it. If you have 2 hours to spend, you might spend the entire time and more working to the agenda pf another person - arguing the same points that for centuries people never agreed upon. Yet you could spend the entire time doing what you came to NL to do.

tbaba1234: These shia people, always looking for argument. JazakAllahu khair vedaxcool. Anyone who needs an explanation should send me an email at tbaba1234@yahoo.com.

Assalamu aleikum.

BetaThings:
It should be obvious. Count the number of posts by different people. How many try to teach the religion? How many try to argue about people, heroes, differences etc

Think about it. If you have 2 hours to spend, you might spend the entire time and more working to the agenda pf another person - arguing the same points that for centuries people never agreed upon. Yet you could spend the entire time doing what you came to NL to do.

Did tbaba tell you that this is the reason?

I wonder why I never even got a reply from him.
Inshort I am not even interested in why he does it anymore, it's his life.

♚ƒԐLis-c∆tus:


Did tbaba tell you that this is the reason?

I wonder why I never even got a reply from him.
Inshort I am not even interested in why he does it anymore, it's his life.

I apologise most sincerely for "interfering".

Felis, I apologize. Betathings has said it all. I am not following this thread.

tbaba1234: Felis, I apologize. Betathings has said it all. I am not following this thread.

your post belies your claim.

BetaThings:

It should be obvious. Count the number of posts by different people. How many try to teach the religion? How many try to argue about people, heroes, differences etc

Think about it. If you have 2 hours to spend, you might spend the entire time and more working to the agenda pf another person - arguing the same points that for centuries people never agreed upon. Yet you could spend the entire time doing what you came to NL to do.

perhaps you're ignorant or covering up for him.the real reason why those who are truly salafists like "tbaba" and "abulbanaat" refuse to debate,but expect others to (blindly and open-heartedly) follow their footsteps,is their belief.it has to do with the salafist ideology and brainwashing.it is what they have been taught,programmed and made to believe.abulbanaat opened a thread copying trash from salafist websites to attack the Shia.when confronted,he refused to debate and continued the insults.tbaba would hardly get involved in a discussion where he is bound to be exposed.in the thread on verse 5:55,he refused to debate or call it discuss.in this thread he refused too.in the thread he opened about his "heroes",he abandoned it when proofs were brought for him about his "heroes".he took part in the thread "deols" opened because he saw it as an opportunity to brainwash "deols" pertaining to the fact that "deols" came out as "fertile field" for ploughing salafism into her brain.in the process,he got tackled hard by LagosShia.he perhaps thought he could take up LagosShia by rejecting most of the hadiths.but LagosShia persisted and brought stronger proofs that revealed that the hadiths he (tbaba) "weakened" are in fact acceptable by Sunni standards and were approved of by prominent Sunni scholars.tbaba resorted to running away again! the fact is when salafism/wahhabism is put to the test it cannot stand.it cannot fulfill the test the Quran presents,which is to "think,ponder,and wise and kind debate".

if you think what I am saying have no grounds,take a look at this:

Salafist Opposition to the use of Kalam

Salafi scholars are in staunch opposition to the use of kalam, dialectics or speculative philosophy in theology. This is because it is seen as a heretical innovation in Islam which opposes the primordial aspiration to follow the original methodology of the Salaf us-salih with regards to Aqidah. Statements of the early Imams of the early Muslims are in corroboration with this such as Imam Abu Hanifa who prohibited his students from engaging in kalam, stating that those who practice it are of the "retarded ones."[23] Imam Malik ibn Anas referred to kalam in the Islamic religion as being "detested",[24] and that whoever "seeks the religion through kalam will deviate".[25] In addition Imam Shafi'i said that no knowledge of Islam can be gained from books of kalam, as kalam "is not from knowledge"[26][27] and that "It is better for a man to spend his whole life doing whatever Allah has prohibited – besides shirk with Allah – rather than spending his whole life involved in kalam."[28] Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal also spoke strongly against kalam, stating his view that no one looks into kalam unless there is "corruption in his heart,"[29] and even went so far as to prohibit sitting with people practicing kalam even if they were defending the Sunnah,[30] and instructing his students to warn against any person they saw practicing kalam.[31]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi#Opposition_to_the_use_of_Kalam

please,find out the meaning of "kalam" :

ʿIlm al-Kalām (Arabic: علم الكلام‎, literally the study of "speech" or "words"[1]) is the Islamic philosophical discipline of seeking theological principles through dialectic. Kalām in Islamic practice relates to the discipline of seeking theological knowledge through debate and argument. A scholar of kalām is referred to as a mutakallim (plural mutakallimiin). There are many possible interpretations as to why this discipline was originally called "kalām"; one is that the widest controversy in this discipline has been about whether the Word of God, as revealed in the Qur'an, can be considered part of God's essence and therefore not created, or whether it was made into words in the normal sense of speech, and is therefore created.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalam

Holy Quran 16:125
" Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good exhortation, and [size=14pt]argue with them[/size] in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided".

THE SHI'ITE KALAM:

(note: "Shi'te" is the Anglicize word for "Shia" ).

Now it is time to take up Shi'ite kalam, if only briefly. Kalam, in the sense of logical and rational argument about the principal doctrines of Islam, has a special and distinguished place in the Shi'ah tradition. The Shi'ite kalam, on the one hand, emerges from the core of Shi'ite hadith, and, on the other, is mixed with Shi'ite philosophy. We have seen how, in the early centuries, kalam was considered to be inimical to the Sunnah and the hadith by the Ahl al-Sunnah. But the Shi'ite kalam not only does not come into conflict with the Sunnah and the hadith, it is firmly rooted in the Sunnah and the hadith. The reason is that the Shi'ite hadith, contrary to the Sunni corpus on hadith, consists of numerous traditions in which profound metaphysical or social problems have been dealt with logically and analysed rationally. But in the Sunni corpus such analytic treatment of these subjects is missing. For instance, if there is any mention of such problems as that of Divine providence and preordination, the all-embracing Will of the Almighty, the Divine Names, Attributes, or such topics as the soul, the life after death, the final reckoning, the Sirat, the Balance, or such issues as Imamah, khilafah, and the like, there is no argument or rational explanation of the topics mentioned. But in the Shi'ah corpus on hadith, all such issues have been dealt with in a rational and discursive manner. A comparison between the list of the chapters of the six Sihah and that of al-Kulayni's al-Kafi will make this quite clear.

Accordingly, "kalam", in the sense of rational and analytical treatment of problems, is found in the Shi'ah hadith. This is the reason why the Shi'ah were not divided into two groups like the Sunnis were into "Ahl al-Hadith" and "Ahl al-Kalam."

please read more about "Il-al-Kalam" from the Shia and Sunni views below.

An Introduction to 'Ilm al-Kalam' By Ayatollah Murtada Muttahari:
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ip/kalam.htm

tbaba1234: Felis, I apologize. Betathings has said it all. I am not following this thread.

Betathings said that if you decide to start arguing with shia you might end up spending more time than you planned arguing things that people have not agreed on for ages.
That is not a valid reason. Why? Because if you have a strong and convincing case to present then it would not take any time at all to silence your opponent completely and finish the argument. Your leaving the thread makes it look like you are scared of arguing with LagosShia. No offense.
Also, as your Muslim brother you should be interested in helping him discover the error of his ways since you believe you are right and he is in error for following Shia doctrine.
The Prophet was rejected and mocked for years when he was trying to pass his message across to the wrongdoers, but he was resilient and kept preaching to them. That is a man the Qur'an urges mankind to take as an example to model their character after.
Please preach to LagosShia and his band of Shia brothers so that they will see reasons why their way is wrong and your way is correct.

BetaThings:

I apologise most sincerely for "interfering".

I just saw this. Sorry if I offended you, it was unintentional.

♚ƒԐLis-c∆tus:

I just saw this. Sorry if I offended you, it was unintentional.

If you spend your life worrying about 'what things look like', you will spend most of it chasing shadows instead of substance.

maclatunji:

If you spend your life worrying about 'what things look like', you will spend most of it chasing shadows instead of substance.

Wow.......profound words of wisdom........

♚ƒԐLis-c∆tus:


Wow.......profound words of wisdom........

indeed! but in the wrong place.Maclatunji (also tbaba) is not after the "substance" (truth) he preaches about.his "wise words" are just back up for an escape route to give tbaba cover.

♚ƒԐLis-c∆tus:

Betathings said that if you decide to start arguing with shia you might end up spending more time than you planned arguing things that people have not agreed on for ages.
That is not a valid reason. Why? Because if you have a strong and convincing case to present then it would not take any time at all to silence your opponent completely and finish the argument. Your leaving the thread makes it look like you are scared of arguing with LagosShia. No offense.
Also, as your Muslim brother you should be interested in helping him discover the error of his ways since you believe you are right and he is in error for following Shia doctrine.
The Prophet was rejected and mocked for years when he was trying to pass his message across to the wrongdoers, but he was resilient and kept preaching to them. That is a man the Qur'an urges mankind to take as an example to model their character after.
Please preach to LagosShia and his band of Shia brothers so that they will see reasons why their way is wrong and your way is correct.

When did argument become a way of giving dawah? Have you ever seen shia and sunni threads? Why would i engage in endless arguments when i know i can be of benefit elsewhere? Is that the way of the messenger, continous arguments? Whose cause do these arguments serve? Why do you think the shia only make sectarian threads? Do you think they are here to listen or to argue? One of the etiquette of dawah is not to be involved in endless arguments,

Do you know how many times they have been debunked on this section? What new point do you think i am going to bring up that has not been trashed? The same things that have been said for centuries. Do you argue because you want to massage your ego or serve the deen? For what reason would i engage in an argument that has no end? What benefit does it have for the average muslim who just wants to serve Allah's deen?Do you think these things don't confuse the average muslim?

Since you talk about the messenger, Do you know that there was a time when he was commanded to stop giving dawah to the meccans? Do you think the messenger mode of dawah is continous arguments? What would the messenger support, an action that helps the muslims in general, or an action that only helps sectarian interest + people that seem to enjoy arguments.

I am not here to please anyone, i write to please Allah and i am following Allah commandment by ignoring idle talk. This thread is a prime example of that.

Thank you.

Answer more questions below:

What is the use of talking about the Caliphate and arguing about it?
What is the use of returning again to a discussion of an issue that is long dead?
Can there be any good reason for us to continue to live in the shadow of these events today, to root around in the past in search of something that could not benefit us now?
Is it reasonable for us to spend our time arguing about who was the most worthy of the caliphate, while all of them are long dead?
Is it possible for us to turn back the pages of history and give the reins of power to those the Shias wish would have ruled?
Is their harping on these things not really a provocation of the devil. Satan only hopes to smash the unity of the Muslims, to rip the Islamic community apart, and to incite even more dissension and discord.

tbaba1234:

When did argument become a way of giving dawah? Have you ever seen shia and sunni threads? Why would i engage in endless arguments when i know i can be of benefit elsewhere? Is that the way of the messenger, continous arguments? Whose cause do these arguments serve? Why do you think the shia only make sectarian threads? Do you think they are here to listen or to argue? One of the etiquette of dawah is not to be involved in endless arguments,

Do you know how many times they have been debunked on this section? What new point do you think i am going to bring up that has not been trashed? The same things that have been said for centuries. Do you argue because you want to massage your ego or serve the deen? For what reason would i engage in an argument that has no end? What benefit does it have for the average muslim who just wants to serve Allah's deen?Do you think these things don't confuse the average muslim?

Since you talk about the messenger, Do you know that there was a time when he was commanded to stop giving dawah to the meccans? Do you think the messenger mode of dawah is continous arguments? What would the messenger support, an action that helps the muslims in general, or an action that only helps sectarian interest + people that seem to enjoy arguments.

I am not here to please anyone, i write to please Allah and i am following Allah commandment by ignoring idle talk. This thread is a prime example of that.

Thank you.

Geez, man,settle down....

Didn't mean to get you worked up.....

Anyway it is your life, do what you want. Answer from Yahoo if you feel that's what's best to do.
Peace.

♚ƒԐLis-c∆tus:


Geez, man,settle down....

Didn't mean to get you worked up.....

Anyway it is your life, do what you want. Answer from Yahoo if you feel that's what's best to do.
Peace.

Salam... If individual muslims want clarification, i would help but i do not have time for endless arguments, that have been rehashed over and over again.

tbaba1234:

Salam... If individual muslims want clarification, i would help but i do not have time for endless arguments, that have been rehashed over and over again.

That's right

Endless arguments is a bad thing.

LagosShia, you really should stop bringing up arguments that have been rehashed over and over again.

Tbaba is tired of you.

tbaba1234:

When did argument become a way of giving dawah? Have you ever seen shia and sunni threads? Why would i engage in endless arguments when i know i can be of benefit elsewhere? Is that the way of the messenger, continous arguments? Whose cause do these arguments serve? Why do you think the shia only make sectarian threads? Do you think they are here to listen or to argue? One of the etiquette of dawah is not to be involved in endless arguments,

so are you saying I opened this thread to endlessly argue with you? why do you think I didn't respond to Vedaxcool,and I preferred talking to you?

Do you know how many times they have been debunked on this section?

please remind me by who.now you're making empty claims and doing exactly what you're accusing others-i.e. massaging your ego.

please review this thread and see who was not only debunked but exposed!
https://www.nairaland.com/1228583/questions-sunni-salafi-shia

What new point do you think i am going to bring up that has not been trashed? The same things that have been said for centuries. Do you argue because you want to massage your ego or serve the deen? For what reason would i engage in an argument that has no end? What benefit does it have for the average muslim who just wants to serve Allah's deen?Do you think these things don't confuse the average muslim?

Since you talk about the messenger, Do you know that there was a time when he was commanded to stop giving dawah to the meccans? Do you think the messenger mode of dawah is continous arguments? What would the messenger support, an action that helps the muslims in general, or an action that only helps sectarian interest + people that seem to enjoy arguments.

but no one argued you.you started by refusing to engage in the thread.if you'd have just giving your view on the topic and excuse yourself,that would have been great.why the emotions and fighting? no one is fighting with you.you are not in pre-Islamic Makkah,where your life is under threat.i don't see the reason why you refuse ordinary discussions;not even debate or argumentation.

I am not here to please anyone, i write to please Allah and i am following Allah commandment by ignoring idle talk. This thread is a prime example of that.

Thank you.

Answer more questions below:

your questions are answered here (please watch the video and carefully read the translation) :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnqPKWC_j-8

tbaba1234:

Salam... If individual muslims want clarification, i would help but i do not have time for endless arguments, that have been rehashed over and over again.

so please can you give your clarification on the topic and lets put all these arguments that have nothing to do with the thread to rest?

♚ƒԐLis-c∆tus:


That's right

Endless arguments is a bad thing.

LagosShia, you really should stop bringing up arguments that have been rehashed over and over again.

Tbaba is tired of you.

I brought no argument.i asked for his clarification and he refused to do that.he stirred up the arguing.

I have not "rehearsed" this topic with tbaba before.most often he refuses to talk.and he cant say he is "all-knowing" when it comes to these issues.i even doubt if I've ever brought up this topic before with anyone.

Felis you need to make up your mind and don't let anyone sway you like the leaf is moved by the wind.

LagosShia:
Felis you need to make up your mind and don't let anyone sway you like the leaf is moved by the wind.

Oh.

My mind has already been made up, don't worry about that