Hello people,


In the course of my reading on this Religion section, I have discovered that many folks acuse each other of 'judging' based on Matthew 7:1 & 2-
[center]"Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.[/center]

I have however been pondering on the issue of judging, on a wider scale other than Nairaland. I shall illustrate using the story of Jack and Jill, my two fictitious characters.
What I have discovered (and I may be wrong) is that Jack accuses Jill of judging when Jill tells Jack that what he did or wrote at some time is wrong, is inconsistent with scripture and could incure the wrath of God.


The truth of the matter is that Jill's judgement is usually based on what is right, according to the bible. The question then is: "is pointing out another person's faults based on the bible judging?"
Personally, I think there should be an understanding of  the difference between a hypocrite and a judge. If Jill was accusing Jack of something that she also does, it is hypocricy, not judging. There is a difference. Or is there?

May i ask you these question?


What promted this kind of discussion,

AKO,
I LOVE YOU for raising this point!
judging those in the church (or those who claim to be christians) is our duty.

1Cor5:12
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside.

most people cry foul and accuse you of judging when you're simply telling them what the bible says!

For example, Beyonce is going to hell. Why? not becos I said so but becos she claims to be a christian but by her actions she proves that she is not one. The bible says by their friuts will we know them, and that no one who is born of God wil continue to sin and live a worldly lifestyle. so I'm only telling you what the bible says! I'm not judging her, the bible already did!

But this must never be done maliciously, but in love to bring about the change in the person.
Also you must never be pointing out someone elses fault when you uself have the same problem you haven't dealt with.

samy-young:

May i ask you these question?


What promted this kind of discussion,

The fact that I want to understand the difference between judging and being a hypocrite.

If I reprimand you by the standards of the bible and am sure that I don't have the particular weakness in question, am I judging?

If simply pointing out other peoples' wrong is judging, which of us human beings is then in the position to correct others?

If everyone were to live by their own standards, we would have nothing short of a chaotic society,  that's what prompted this discussion. Thanks.

It's a very thin line between judging someone and correcting someone in love which is what the bible admonishes us to do. It also says we should correct someone in sin with a spirit of humility and gentleness lest we also fall. Galatians 6:1. What you find in most cases is that the average Christian is generally self-righteous and likes to brodcast the faults of others, this is actually judgement and we are all guilty of it at some point or another in our walk with God. Unless you have fallen as a Christian before, you cannot really understand how to help someone who is struggling in their walk and we all have areas in which God will continue to work on us until we go to be with him. The important thing to do to help you distinguish whether you are judging someone or trying to correct them is to search yourself and ask yourself the exact motives for your seeing the fault in the other person. Is it because you are trying to make yourself look better?

My battery is down and I have to log off now. I'll be back later.

1 John 4: 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

How do i "try these spirits" without being accused of judging?

I have a question. Why do you continue to post in this part of the forum if your belief is not accorded any respect at all I mean we already see that it is free for all day on Christian belief in here but i-slam has been placed on a pedestal? Why not urge that christianity be accorded the same respect and everyone go home and have a nice day instead?? Don't you think this is bothersome?? @4him.

I mean it is ok for folks to take pock shots at your own belief but you dare not do that to other religion?? It is ok to pamper those who rule over others with fear but those who do not are to be tossed around and their belief's insulted for free Why don't you christian demand the same respect be accorded your own belief?? Why continue to take assault in a Forum area that is obviously biased?? Why not ask the moderator to also make sure that your own religion is treated the same as he demands i-slam be treated? Or maybe you all gang up and threaten his life as well so he get things straight, LMAO!!! I really don't understand why you continue in religion area knowing what you know.

@Kobojunkie,

Your very protest is the main reason why the Christian faith is a more attractive practice and the Bible a wholistic guide in one's approach to life. As Christ said in John 4 in his conversation with the Samarittan woman, we ought to be in a personal relationship with God guided by the Scriptures. Constant constructive criticism and re-evaluation of one's march of faith is greatly encouraged. Also see:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=94198.msg1716169#msg1716169

@ All,

You may want to check this related opinion:

http://www.spiritualabuse.org/mywritings/authority.html

well christians are the best hypocrities and judges, they should know better. thats what their faith has built them for!

The bible is filled with so many premonitions, insults and swears that its unthinkable for an average christian not to be influenced by such diabolical words.

Its either you accept jesus or the kingdom of god wont be yours

its either your born again or you shall not enter heaven

woe unto you if you dont accept gods words

blah blah blah, its too much to write down.

Christianity has put you in a situation whereby you dont ask but accept. You dont think but do. It is a must to follow or else,

There is no room for compromise or reasoning, its either your with us or against us.

So why shouldnt an average christian be so judgemental against everyone that isnt a christian?

The bible put them to it and its what they have been trained to do and carry out the orders of the bible!

Sun God:

well christians are the best hypocrities and judges, they should know better. thats what their faith has built them for!

The bible is filled with so many premonitions, insults and swears that its unthinkable for an average christian not to be influenced by such diabolical words.

Its either you accept jesus or the kingdom of god wont be yours

its either your born again or you shall not enter heaven

woe unto you if you don't accept gods words

blah blah blah, its too much to write down.

Christianity has put you in a situation whereby you don't ask but accept. You don't think but do. It is a must to follow or else,

There is no room for compromise or reasoning, its either your with us or against us.

So why shouldnt an average christian be so judgemental against everyone that isnt a christian?

The bible put them to it and its what they have been trained to do and carry out the orders of the bible!

yawn,

I guess Sun God must be referring to something other than Christianity.
Please re-read your comments and make necessary correction or retract.

Sun God:

well christians are the best hypocrities and judges, they should know better. thats what their faith has built them for!

The bible is filled with so many premonitions, insults and swears that its unthinkable for an average christian not to be influenced by such diabolical words.

Its either you accept jesus or the kingdom of god wont be yours

its either your born again or you shall not enter heaven

woe unto you if you don't accept gods words

blah blah blah, its too much to write down.

Christianity has put you in a situation whereby you don't ask but accept. You don't think but do. It is a must to follow or else,

There is no room for compromise or reasoning, its either your with us or against us.

So why shouldnt an average christian be so judgemental against everyone that isnt a christian?

The bible put them to it and its what they have been trained to do and carry out the orders of the bible!

You may find it interesting to note that much of what you said is absolutely correct, for example "its either you accept Jesus or the kingdom of heaven will not be yours". I understand that you are an atheist, hence your writings on this thread are of very little importance where the subject is concerned, frankly. This will also be my last reply to any of your posts on this thread. I sincerely pray that you do not die this way in Jesus name, amen.

If a christian sees faults in other people, the faults being inconsistencies with the bible, are they not in a position to point these out? If not, WHO SETS THE STANDARDS? AND HOW SHOULD THESE STANDARDS BE SET?
These are the questions that I would like people to biblically and constructively give answers to.
Like I said earlier, failure to do this will result in a chaotic society.

seguno2:

@Kobojunkie,

Your very protest is the main reason why the Christian faith is a more attractive practice and the Bible a wholistic guide in one's approach to life. As Christ said in John 4 in his conversation with the Samarittan woman, we ought to be in a personal relationship with God guided by the Scriptures. Constant constructive criticism and re-evaluation of one's march of faith is greatly encouraged. Also see:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=94198.msg1716169#msg1716169

@ All,

You may want to check this related opinion:

http://www.spiritualabuse.org/mywritings/authority.html

I completely miss your point here. Are you saying it is ok for christians to continue to accept being treated in here as second class citizens to i-slamics?? I really do not understand your point at all.

In my own opinion, respect is given to those who actually demand and deserve it. If you sit by and watch while mud is allowed to be slung at you with no restriction at all while another set of people are placed on a pedestal, you will continue to recieve nothing more than more and more mud until you realize that it is time you demand respect for yourself and that includes staying away from posting in here to show that you are no less than those being placed on pedestals. Christianity is not synonymous with stupidity. Anyone who has really experiences the wonderful grace of God would know that we are not called to be scum but to stand up high and bring scum up from the mud to where Jesus wants them to be instead. Continuing to allow mud be slung at one and pretending one is defending his or her God is ridiculous. God does not need all this so I question why people continue to let this happen. I know some are going to come up with vain interpretations of verses to support their move forgetting the many verses that urge us all to move on when we know that arguments are in vain, and for those I will advice they really ask God what his will for them in this situation really is and they learn to put aside their own will and accept God's will. Please Christians, have some class, I beg of you.

Kobojunkie:

I have a question. Why do you continue to post in this part of the forum if your belief is not accorded any respect at all I mean we already see that it is free for all day on Christian belief in here but i-slam has been placed on a pedestal? Why not urge that christianity be accorded the same respect and everyone go home and have a nice day instead?? Don't you think this is bothersome?? @4him.

I mean it is ok for folks to take pock shots at your own belief but you dare not do that to other religion?? It is ok to pamper those who rule over others with fear but those who do not are to be tossed around and their belief's insulted for free Why don't you christian demand the same respect be accorded your own belief?? Why continue to take assault in a Forum area that is obviously biased?? Why not ask the moderator to also make sure that your own religion is treated the same as he demands i-slam be treated? Or maybe you all gang up and threaten his life as well so he get things straight, LMAO!!! I really don't understand why you continue in religion area knowing what you know.

Christ did not come down to earth demanding the Pharisees get Him a throne and accord Him the same respect as the high priest.

First and foremost I apologise in advance to Mukina2 , in case it turns out that she does not have anything to do with the banning of SysUser from Nairaland.

Secondly, however i still have my suspicions concerning Mukina2/Seun, considering the recent chain of events surrounding SysUser's nairaland account.


Chain of suspicious coincidences and events include:

1. Sysuser is banned from Nairaland for Religion Trolling

2. Sysuser discovers that Mukina2 is a Religion Section Moderator

3. Mukina2 is a m.u.s.l.i.m

4. Sysuser has been strongly and bluntly challenging the lies of I.s.L.A.M, CAtholicism, Evolution, Atheism etc

5. Sysuser was predominantly using the Religion Section of nairaland (since it was the most positive section that deals with fundamental issues affecting each and every one of us)

6. "Sysuser" decided to create another username callled "sysuserX", yet sysuserX is already starting to experience restrictions

7. Two new threads posted by sysuserX has just be restricted or deleted


Therefore the questions remains:

1. Who banned Sysuser from Nairaland

2. Why was Sysuser banned from Nairaland

3. Is Nairaland now starting to infringe on the basic freedom of speech and right of a person to challenge the lies of the belief of other people on nairaland

4. What is Religion Trolling

Thank you

Kobojunkie:

I completely miss your point here. Are you saying it is ok for christians to continue to accept being treated in here as second class citizens to i-slamics?? I really do not understand your point at all.

In my own opinion, respect is given to those who actually demand and deserve it. If you sit by and watch while mud is allowed to be slung at you with no restriction at all while another set of people are placed on a pedestal, you will continue to recieve nothing more than more and more mud until you realize that it is time you demand respect for yourself and that includes staying away from posting in here to show that you are no less than those being placed on pedestals. Christianity is not synonymous with stupidity. Anyone who has really experiences the wonderful grace of God would know that we are not called to be scum but to stand up high and bring scum up from the mud to where Jesus wants them to be instead. Continuing to allow mud be slung at one and pretending one is defending his or her God is ridiculous. God does not need all this so I question why people continue to let this happen. I know some are going to come up with vain interpretations of verses to support their move forgetting the many verses that urge us all to move on when we know that arguments are in vain, [b][/b]and for those I will advice they really ask God what his will for them in this situation really is and they learn to put aside their own will and accept God's will. Please Christians, have some class, I beg of you.

i just noticed the trend. . . .Thank God that he alone is God,had man been God,maybe we wud have been forbidden from even calling on his name.No man, no matter how influential he thinks he is, can change or affect the plans and works of God.our part is to exalt and lift him up we wud draw all souls to himself.moreso,our weapons of warfare has never been carnal. . . we wrestle and fight not against flesh and blood.
@topic,liftedone did justice to it.

sysuserX:



Therefore the questions remains:

1. Who banned Sysuser from Nairaland

2. Why was Sysuser banned from Nairaland

3. Is Nairaland now starting to infringe on the basic freedom of speech and right of a person to challenge the lies of the belief of other people on nairaland

4. What is Religion Trolling

Thank you

@sysuserX

By the way there are three moderators on different forum boards right now, not only Mukina2.

1. Forum Administrator is the one who banned banned Sysuser from Nairaland.

2. The reason why was Sysuser banned from Nairaland is the answer from forum administrator on the ground of religion trolling.

3. No, the Nairaland does not started to infringe on the basic freedom of speech and person's rights! You are infringe on the Nairaland forum rules and you have NO RIGHTS to take challenge the lies of the belief of other people on Nairaland.

4. I do not know what Religion Trolling is. Ask forum administrator to explain to you. According to the google, I found the answer at below:

A Religion trolling is a new internet jargon/slang to me that defines someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic religion discussion.

Some religion trolling may denounce a particular religion in a religion newsgroup, though historically, this would have been called "flamebait". Like those who engage in flaming, self-proclaimed or alleged Internet trolls sometimes resort to innuendo or misdirection in the pursuit of their objective. It is possible to distinguish between comments that are flamebait and as a result of trolling: flames have the intent of being anti-social and offensive, while trolling comments are intended to provoke a reaction, though trolling comments may also be perceived as being anti-social, although that may not have been the intent of the author.

ifyalways:

i just noticed the trend. . . .Thank God that he alone is God,had man been God,[b]maybe we would have been forbidden from even calling on his name.[/b]No man, no matter how influential he thinks he is, can change or affect the plans and works of God.our part is to exalt and lift him up we would draw all souls to himself.moreso,our weapons of warfare has never been carnal. . . we wrestle and fight not against flesh and blood.
@topic,liftedone did justice to it.

We are getting there gradually. It is a matter of time, mark my words . . . a time will come when it will be illegal to mention the name of Jesus Christ.

Some religion trolling may denounce a particular religion in a religion newsgroup, though historically, this would have been called "flamebait". Like those who engage in flaming, self-proclaimed or alleged Internet trolls sometimes resort to innuendo or misdirection in the pursuit of their objective. It is possible to distinguish between comments that are flamebait and as a result of trolling: flames have the intent of being anti-social and offensive, while trolling comments are intended to provoke a reaction, though trolling comments may also be perceived as being anti-social, although that may not have been the intent of the author.

So by saying that the BLUNT TRUTH that i am dishing out to M.u.s.l.ims, Catholics, Evolutionists, Atheists et al, is:

1  Flamebait
2. Anti-Social
3. Offensive
4. Innuendo
5. Misdirection

As a result Nairaland and its league of administrators or moderators have already taking sides, such that they now consider that whatever M.u.s.l.ims, Catholics, Evolutionists, Atheists et al, say is:


1  Not Flamebait
2. Not Anti-Social
3. Not Offensive
4. Not Innuendo
5. Not Misdirection

Come on abeg give me a break !!!!!, it simply means that Nairaland, is no longer a FREE forumn , where truths can be proclaimed and lies exposed for what they are.

By banning SysUser (and probably others like him), Nairaland has only succeeded in the act of suppression of freedom of speech and "active bending over backwards" for those that do not like to hear the blunt truth.

What it all comes down to is our attitude when we point out the faults of others. If we are smug about it and feel that we are better than the other person, then we are certainly being judgemental.

@Jesoul, what Paul was talking about in that passage in 1Cor 6:1-7 is not about judging one another because then, he would be contradicting what Jesus said in Matthew 7. He is talking about when Christians go to the law when they have disputes with one another. That Christians ought not to go to the secular courts when they have disagreements because Christians have the Holy Spirit and because of the authority Christians will have in future, they should be able to resolve the minor disputes that arise between them and not have to go to law against one another.

@4Him, again, I don't think trying the spirits can be equated with judging or you can be accused of judging someone because you see a different spirit working in them. There are many voices out there that claim to be speaking for God. When you test the voices, you are simply checking to see that what they claim about God is in conformity with the word of God and the fruits they bear and their lifestyles reflect that word.

@Jesoul, I just noticed you were talking about 1Cor 5:12. Our motive in taking the actions we take when a Christian is deliberately committing sin should still be posited within the passage in Galatians 6:1. I will never point a finger at somebody and say that person is going to hell because I don't know what God's grace can do or is doing in that person's life. If someone claims to be a Christian and is living contrary to the word of God, I will rather question whether they are truly Christians in the first place and they really know God at all. Because the bible says no one who is a child of God deliberately sins. When someone is living in sin as a Christian, the church's duty is to confront and discipline but it must be done in love. And walking in love is an area where Christians and the Church are failing woefully.

@ AKO, good question. And i don't have an answer

Humans by nature find faults with each other and tend to "judge" by rebuking, condemning or chastising each other. Humans also by nature also tend to be defensive when being corrected". Nobody likes to be told off. The above characteristics are present from childhood. When someone corrects, out of love, and who is spiritually more mature, and for the right reasons, that is "constructive judging". The reverse is also true. Judging from a Christan perspective is a delicate matter. As there are "spiritual leaders" entrusted with the growth and progress of the church, they have the right to correct the church. On a more personal level, Christians have a right to also hold each other to account too but for the right reasons.  Some people like to behave like they are superior to everyone else and have a right to reprimand others harshly. Some others too never like to be corrected and feel they can do no wrong, always justifying ttheir actions. Example, some behave like the pharisees looking for "sinners" to expose and "punish", while some also behave like the guy with the one talent who refused to invest to make profit for his master. When accused of being lazy, he became defensive, giving reasons for his actions. My question is when do you draw the line between being "judgemental" and being "too permissive" of others.

So by saying that the BLUNT TRUTH that i am dishing out to M.u.s.l.ims, Catholics, Evolutionists, Atheists et al, is:

1  Flamebait
2. Anti-Social
3. Offensive
4. Innuendo
5. Misdirection

As a result Nairaland and its league of administrators or moderators have already taking sides, such that they now consider that whatever M.u.s.l.ims, Catholics, Evolutionists, Atheists et al, say is:


1  Not Flamebait
2. Not Anti-Social
3. Not Offensive
4. Not Innuendo
5. Not Misdirection

Come on abeg give me a break !!!!!, it simply means that Nairaland, is no longer a FREE forumn , where truths can be proclaimed and lies exposed for what they are.

By banning SysUser (and probably others like him), Nairaland has only succeeded in the act of suppression of freedom of speech and "active bending over backwards" for those that do not like to hear the blunt truth.

Honestly, i believe who ever has banned sysuser is a coward!

Just because he doesnt say things that appeal to you, that means he should be banned for not following a particular topic or he expresses his disgust at a particular religion which he thinks is being run by a bunch of delusional set of people.

Frankly speaking i dont care about Islam neither do i give a damn about who sys user is but supressing the rights of free speech is even worse than the atrocities of the holocaust or genocide.

Why should people arbitrarily determine what is right to say and not right to say?

Just because sys user doesnt kiss ass and glorify a particular set of religion, you say he's religion trolling and affecting the sensitivity of certain members of the forum. (Rubbish, what emotional sensibilities)

Thats the height of dictatorship and irrationality at play here.

The general rules of forums world wide is to prevent cyber bullying whereby your life or lives of your loved ones are being threatened. Just because he has an aversion towards certain religions doesnt make him someone you should ban.

I have read more statements filled with hate and disgusts from memebers on this forum that are still willing participants today but because once in a while they tend to be hypocritical and support the winning topic, they are let go. If sys user wants to and has a passion on soley religious issues, he should continue to excercise his right to vent out his anger in a reasonable way.

Thats why it is a forum and its not by force to read it or challenge the person in  a debate and allow the thread to die honourably.

A forum is meant to express:

Joy

sorrow

anger

disgust

disbelieve

encourage debates

challenge debates

express shock

ignore people

Learn from it

Banning people without any just cause because it is emotionally inclined shows how cowardly the action is and doesnt justify any reasonable explanation.

I have been a member of this forum since 2006 and i was a catholic and a very staunch catholic for that matter. This forum opened my eyes to see the inadequacies of catholics and i learnt enough which challenged my faith then, despite my feeble protests to deny the obvious and protect it.

Further threads helped me question certain rationalities about the christian faith afterwards and today i am glad i participated and debated with a lot of intellectual and intelligent people. No matter what the outcome was, i still remained a member and just recently changed my name to protect my identity.

I can imagine if i was a moderator then and i was recieving so many flacks from anti catholics, i would have cowardly shut them out and let the status quo remain which  would have been cowardly in nature and a gross violation to free speech.

I remember when seun was bragging he was an atheists and now he is placing an embargo on people offending I-s-l-a-m. Today you write I-s-l-a-m, it changes to the great religion, you write k-o-r-a-n, it changes to the great book? What is that?

Why not jesus would change to the holy one and the bible to the word of god? Wasnt it this forum that helped him change his beliefs to an extent?

it is totally wrong and morally reprehensible for people to just decide what is right and what is wrong just because they dont like what someone has said about their religion. Nobody is stopping the other party from attacking or questioning the rationality for beliving in the other faith.

We are all trying to find answers and no one knows who would provide that answer until we open ourselves for scrutiny.

Like i said before, i dont care about who seun, mukina2, sys user or whoever is a member of this forum. All i care about is for people to have the right to speak, Good or bad unless your no different from a dictator and your better off selcecting only the few hypocritical few that would say what you want to hear and do what you want to do.

Remember Free-will is what guides human actions!