musKeeto:
This one pass good heart.. na patience.. the kind of patience Jehovah had with Israel and her prostitution with other gods..

How do you argue with someone who claims an answer can be yes/no and then tries to defend it with the principles of quantum computers... a principle he clearly doesn't understand...

smh...

I'm off.. I can sense his next question already..

"Why don't you explain to us about quan...""

sheesh..

Lol. What is it with you people and your insistence that things are so obvious, clear, etc that you can never actually show them?

I don't claim expertise in quantum computing but that its principles are different from digital computing and that it operates in such a way that it exploits the quantum properties of atoms, that is, the ability of atoms to exist in multiple states at once I know.

I wonder what's so tough in pointing out any wrong conclusions I made based on that knowledge. Are you afraid that I'll refuse to eat humble pie?

Logicboy03:


Sharaap there!

Ooman has a good heart....he was sincerely trying to teach Ihedinobi some logic. Unfortunately, Ooman assumed that Ihedinobi was open to logic like a sane person

Lol. What else is new? I'm closed to logic because ooman is unable to hold up his arguments and claims which endeavor to be atheistic.

Ihedinobi:

Lol. What is it with you people and your insistence that things are so obvious, clear, etc that you can never actually show them?

I don't claim expertise in quantum computing but that its principles are different from digital computing and that it operates in such a way that it exploits the quantum properties of atoms, that is, the ability of atoms to exist in multiple states at once I know.

I wonder what's so tough in pointing out any wrong conclusions I made based on that knowledge. Are you afraid that I'll refuse to eat humble pie?

Do they exist in multiple states at the same time?

Didn't you say you'd gone? Why can't you stay off this thread, musKeeto?

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure and cannot ascertain whether it is atoms or electrons, but electrons do exist both as particles and waves, yes, at the same time.

EDIT: Ok, it's more like, electrons exist in a manner that they exhibit the properties of both waves and particles until they are measured. However, the following is an excerpt from http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/quantum-computing about quantum computing.

Think of a qubit as an electron in a magnetic field. The electron's spin may be either in alignment with the field, which is known as a "spin-up" state, or opposite to the field, which is known as a "spin-down" state. Changing the electron's spin from one state to another is achieved by using a pulse of energy, such as from a laser
 - let's say that we use 1 unit of laser energy. But what if we only use half a unit of laser energy and completely isolate the particle from all external influences? According to quantum law, the particle then enters a superposition of states, in which it behaves as if it were in both states simultaneously.

Ihedinobi:

Lol. What else is new? I'm closed to logic because ooman is unable to hold up his arguments and claims which endeavor to be atheistic.

you know, because you say these things to console yourself doesn't mean they are true

ooman:

you know, because you say these things to console yourself doesn't mean they are true

Oh, and the following was true and not to console yourself?

ooman: yep, you r a waste of time

^^^smh

Ihedinobi: Didn't you say you'd gone? Why can't you stay off this thread, musKeeto?

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure and cannot ascertain whether it is atoms or electrons, but electrons do exist both as particles and waves, yes, at the same time.

EDIT: Ok, it's more like, electrons exist in a manner that they exhibit the properties of both waves and particles until they are measured. However, the following is an excerpt from http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/quantum-computing about quantum computing.

Your silliness on this thread keeps bobbing it up the pile...

Anyways... you could read this also...

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/28/science/physicists-put-atom-in-2-places-at-once.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Bizarre though such effects seem to nonphysicists, they underlie countless practical applications, including the ubiquitous transistor. They might eventually lead to a quantum computer, in which a single atom switching between different quantum states could simultaneously perform different operations, thereby speeding up computations to the point at which currently unbreakable electronic codes could be readily broken.

New York Times: MANY a suspect has escaped the noose by arguing that he could not have been in two places at the same time. But no such grounds for an alibi exist for the tiny inhabitants of the realm of quantum mechanics: a team of physicists has proved that an entire atom can simultaneously exist in two widely separated places.

The achievement not only sheds light on a famous scientific paradox but could also have important consequences for cryptography, a science that creates codes to safeguard the electronic transfer of money, state secrets and other valuable things.

Quantum mechanics is a natural system of stepwise interactions that governs very small things: molecules, atoms and the components of atoms. It does not noticeably affect the "classical" or "macroscale" world, the environment familiar to human beings.

In the quantum "microscale" world, objects can tunnel almost magically through impenetrable barriers. A single object can exist in a multiplicity of forms and places. In principle, two quantum-mechanically "entangled" objects can respond instantly to each other's experiences, even when the two objects are at opposite ends of the universe.

Bizarre though such effects seem to nonphysicists, they underlie countless practical applications, including the ubiquitous transistor. They might eventually lead to a quantum computer, in which a single atom switching between different quantum states could simultaneously perform different operations, thereby speeding up computations to the point at which currently unbreakable electronic codes could be readily broken.

That could have a devastating effect on current banking transfer procedures. Many coding systems used for the electronic transfer of money depend on the fact that it is virtually impossible, using even the fastest of today's computers, to factor very large numbers that are the products of pairs of large prime numbers. A quantum computer, however, might be able to do the factoring in a reasonable period of time, thereby putting a powerful tool in the hands of thieves.

In a paper published in the current issue of the journal Science, Dr. Christopher Monroe and his colleagues at the National Institute of Standards and Technology in Boulder, Colo., described how they had divided a single beryllium atom into two distinct states of existence and had then separated the two states in space.

To readers of science fiction, the idea of a single atom existing simultaneously in two states or places is reminiscent of the supernatural "doppelganger" -- a flesh-and-blood duplicate of one's self encountered while walking along a street.

The real significance of the institute's feat, Dr. Monroe said in an interview, is that the two states of the same atom were not only pulled apart but were separated by a relatively enormous distance -- a distance large enough to represent a transition from the domain of quantum mechanics to the everyday world, where things behave in "normal" ways. The beryllium atom, as divided by the scientists into two separate manifestations, may therefore have represented a kind of bridge between the microscale and macroscale levels of existence, and it therefore occupies an intermediate "mesoscale" region. The study of such a region could help define the fuzzy boundary between the quantum world and the everyday world.

The main object of the institute's experiments was to create the atomic equivalent of "Schrodinger's cat" -- the hypothetical victim of a whimsical "thought experiment" devised in 1935 by the German quantum theorist Erwin Schrodinger to illustrate one paradox of quantum theory.

Schrodinger suggested that a box might be built and a live cat and a capsule of poison gas put inside. The capsule could be broken, and the lethal poison released, by a trigger mechanism actuated by the decay of a radioactive atom. The experiment would be conducted during a specified period of time in which there would be a precisely 50-50 chance that the atom would decay, killing the cat, or would not decay, leaving the cat alive.

Quantum mechanics deals with the statistics of probability rather than traditional determinism. Under quantum rules, the radioactive atom that could trigger the release of the poison is considered to have a wave function that consists of equal parts of a decayed state and an undecayed state. Only when an observer (or an inanimate surrogate) measures the state of the radioactive atom or opens the box does the state of the atom (and the survival or death of the cat) become definite -- a situation physicists describe as "collapsing the wave function."

Schrodinger himself knew that it is absurd to imagine a cat as simultaneously dead and alive. Cats, like all things, are considered to have wave functions, but the wave function of a cat must include the states of every atom in its body, and the combination is astronomically more complex than the wave function of a single atom. The decay or survival of a single atom in the cat's body has no appreciable effect on the animal.

Still, Schrodinger's cat remains a popular metaphor for the possibility of demonstrating a linkage between the ultra-small realm of quantum mechanics and the classical world of everyday experience. It also illustrates the quantum paradox that allows a single particle to be in multiple states or places at the same time.

Strange though it seems, the quantum equivalent of Schrodinger's cat has long been known to be a reality. For example, a photon of light or a single electron can behave both as a particle and as a wave. It can be beamed at a barrier pierced by two slits in such a way that it can pass through either slit with equal probability. When that happens, it passes through both slits; afterward, the particle-wave and its doppelganger can be recombined. That can be done so the twins interfere with each other, producing a pattern of fringes in their combined waves, in which the crests and troughs either reinforce each other or cancel each other -- proof that the particle has been physically divided into separate states.

The novelty of the experiment at the National Institute of Standards and Technology is that the scientists succeeded in separating two states of a single atom in space, then pulled them 83 nanometers (billionths of a meter) apart. That distance is minute by human standards, but gigantic for the quantum world.
To achieve that, the group applied precisely tuned dye lasers of the kind used by the institute to develop increasingly accurate atomic clocks. Although the method is extremely difficult in practice, its principles are relatively simple.

First, Dr. Monroe explained, an electrically neutral atom of beryllium (a light metal) was stripped of one of the two electrons in its outer shell, thus giving the atom a positive electrical charge and rendering the atom responsive to electromagnetic influences.

The electrically charged atom was next bombarded by laser beams, reducing its thermal motion to almost zero. The atom was then shackled to the center of an electromagnetic trap, in which it was gently tweaked by another set of lasers directed at the beryllium atom's single remaining outer electron.

This lone electron has a 50-50 chance of being in either a "spin up" state or a "spin down" state ("spin" is a quantum-mechanical attribute of particles that is vaguely analogous to the spin of a top), and the wave function of the electron includes equal parts of "up" and "down" spin. But by applying very precise laser beams to the electron orbiting the beryllium nucleus, the institute group was able to induce the beryllium atom's outer electron to oscillate very rapidly between "up" and "down" spins. The lasers then nudged these two states apart, effectively converting the entire atom into a pair of separated doppelgangers.

By repeating the experiment many times while slightly varying the conditions, the group was able to make a kind of movie that visualizes the process of pulling apart and then recombining the two versions of the atom, producing telltale interference patterns.

Dr. Monroe imagines the process as something like a pair of mutually repellant marbles at the opposite rims of a bowl with a round bottom. The two marbles are allowed to roll down the sides, meet and pass right through each other, then to roll up the other sides. They continue this oscillation indefinitely.

"The technical problems of building a quantum computer may turn out to be too complex to solve, even though we know that such a computer is possible in principle," Dr. Monroe said. "But in any case, we've taken a good step toward turning old Schrodinger's cat into reality."

@musKeeto

Thought I should post the whole article so that we can see just how silly I have been and whether or not you have also decided to go with ooman's 'dishonesty is the only policy'.

FYI, the title of the article is Physicists Put Atom in 2 Places At Once. You'll find too that it wasn't only location but state or form when you read through. Kinda telling that you could miss the many repetitions of the fact that the atom proved to be able to exist in "two forms and places" or two states simultaneously.



PS. But I like you far better than ooman. That dude is not even on my 'like' radar.

Ihedinobi:

@musKeeto

Thought I should post the whole article so that we can see just how silly I have been and whether or not you have also decided to go with ooman's 'dishonesty is the only policy'.



PS. But I like you far better than ooman. That dude is not even on my 'like' radar.

And your point?

Yeah, I know you like me... stop spreading that news around..

musKeeto:

And your point?

Yeah, I know you like me... stop spreading that news around..

Er, I edited the post to include amplify my point.

Oh, c'mon, we both know you liked hearing it again.

EDIT: added "amplify" because I already made my point in the first post before editing it.

Ihedinobi:

@musKeeto

Thought I should post the whole article so that we can see just how silly I have been and whether or not you have also decided to go with ooman's 'dishonesty is the only policy'.

FYI, the title of the article is Physicists Put Atom in 2 Places At Once. You'll find too that it wasn't only location but state or form when you read through. Kinda telling that you could miss the many repetitions of the fact that the atom proved to be able to exist in "two forms and places" or two states simultaneously.



PS. But I like you far better than ooman. That dude is not even on my 'like' radar.

You referred to quantum computers, not quantum mechanics. That was why I quoted this

Bizarre though such effects seem to nonphysicists, they underlie countless practical applications, including the ubiquitous transistor. They might eventually lead to a quantum computer, in which a single atom switching between different quantum states could simultaneously perform different operations, thereby speeding up computations to the point at which currently unbreakable electronic codes could be readily broken.

Had nothing to do with being dishonest.

Earlier...

Ihedinobi:

I don't claim expertise in quantum computing but that its principles are different from digital computing and that it operates in such a way that it exploits the quantum properties of atoms, that is, the ability of atoms to exist in multiple states at once I know.

musKeeto:

Do they exist in multiple states at the same time?

musKeeto:
Bizarre though such effects seem to nonphysicists, they underlie countless practical applications, including the ubiquitous transistor. They might eventually lead to a quantum computer, in which a single atom switching between different quantum states could simultaneously perform different operations, thereby speeding up computations to the point at which currently unbreakable electronic codes could be readily broken.

Lord, Lord! Man, quantum computing runs on the principles of quantum mechanics.

And the very article did in fact say that the atoms can exist in multiple quantum states at once. I should even thank you for the article, it helped sharpen my understanding on quantum mechanics and quantum computing.

Ihedinobi: Lord, Lord! Man, quantum computing runs on the principles of quantum mechanics.

And the very article did in fact say that the atoms can exist in multiple quantum states at once. I should even thank you for the article, it helped sharpen my understanding on quantum mechanics and quantum computing.

Na, I should thank you...

New York Times: [size=15pt]That distance is minute by human standards, but gigantic for the quantum world.[/size]

Exactly what i have been telling you.

ihedinobi: Thought I should post the whole article so that we can see just how silly I have been and whether or not you have also decided to go with ooman's 'dishonesty is the only policy'.

should i be concerned about this thing's rants and raves.

Only the defeated cry

ihedinobi: PS. But I like you far better than ooman. That dude is not even on my 'like' radar.

The feeling is a perfect mutuality

musKeeto:
Na, I should thank you...

Well, arigato. And you're welcome.

Ihedinobi:

Well, arigato. And you're welcome.

Found a video that does a good job of explaining quantum computing.. Thought I'd share..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2DXrs0OpHU

^^ Thanks bro.

Didn't hear from you over the weekend.

Ihedinobi: ^^ Thanks bro.

Didn't hear from you over the weekend.

Hey. Sent a text message to you last night. Probably you didn't get it. Sunday was much busier than I anticipated and I got home really late and tired. Sorry about that.

aManFromMars:

Hey. Sent a text message to you last night. Probably you didn't get it. Sunday was much busier than I anticipated and I got home really late and tired. Sorry about that.

Oh ok. I didn't, sorry. Good morning and have a splendid day

SHALOM!

ooman:
The topic of mutual exclusion of omniscience and freewill is a topic that exposes many things about the nature of God.
This topic just didnt immediately mean that God does not exist if we have freewill, it also means that If God exist, then we dont have freewill. What we therefore call freewill is only a delusion because if Jack has two options - A and B, and if an omniscient being knows that Jack was going to choose B, then Jack MUST choose B, if not, the omniscient being is not omniscient anymore.

I disdain the shallowness of intellect that can only think as far as its inability to solve Problems- then calls them "insoluble."

"I don't like the term "PLAN B;" it implies that we only have 26 options!" - Scott Summers: Uncanny X-Men 543.

You really couldn't think of any other option.

. DIANETICS LOGICS 14-15.

14. Factors introduced into a Problem or Solution
which do not derive from Natural Law
but only Authoritarian Command
aberrate that Problem or Solution.
15. The introduction of an Arbitrary
into a Problem or Solution invites
the further Introduction of Arbitraries
into Problems and Solutions.

[See: SCIENTOLOGY 0-8: THE BOOK OF BASICS, by L. Ron Hubbard.]

A worshipper of YAHWEH GOD is required to MEDITATE on The Word of God, in order to attain TOTAL UNDERSTANDING.

None of the Christians I have ever met online in over 30 years has ever done that before, nor any I have met on this forum.

They are too ignorant and frivolous to know what that is.

Let me put you in the know:

. JOSHUA 1:8.

8. "This Book of The Law
shall not depart out of thy mouth;
but thou shalt meditate therein day and night,
that thou mayest do
according to all that is written therein:
for then thou shalt make thy way Prosperous,
and then thou shalt have Good Success."

THE BIBLICAL TECHNIQUE OF MEDITATION REQUIRES THAT WE LOOK AT THE SCRIPTURE UNDER SCRUTINY HUNDREDS INTO THOUSANDS OF TIMES PER DAY, FOR DAYS INTO WEEKS INTO MONTHS.

Every possible way there is to look at that Scripture will be looked at- until our Understanding of It equals that of GOD HIMSELF (sic).

I feel nothing but disgust and contempt for those idiots who look at the Teachings of the Greatest Prophet who ever lived, and said:

"THAT'S CRAZY!"

IF YOU MEDITATED on the Scriptural Basis of GOD'S INFINITE ATTRIBUTES, you would quickly escape the PREDESTINATION PARADOX-

-OH, that's right- you cannot do that- because there are no such Scriptures.

GOD is not OMNIPOTENT.
GOD is not OMNISCIENT.
GOD is not OMNIPRESENT.

God has NEVER claimed ANY of these Attributes.
God has NEVER asked ANYONE to believe that He possesses such Attributes.

. LUKE 10:17-24.

17. And the seventy returned again with joy, saying,
"Lord, even the Devils are subject unto us through thy Name."
18. And he said unto them,
"I beheld Satan as lightning fall from Heaven.
19. "Behold, I give unto you Power
to tread on Serpents and Scorpions,
and over all the Power of the Enemy:
and nothing shall by any means hurt you."
20. "Notwithstanding in this rejoice not,
that the spirits are subject unto you;
but rather rejoice, because your Names are written in Heaven."
21. In that Hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said,
"I thank thee, O Father, Lord of Heaven and Earth,
that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent,
and hast revealed them unto babes:
even so, Father; for so it seemed good in Thy Sight.
22. "All things are delivered to me of my Father:
and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father;
and Who the Father is, but the Son,
and he to whom the Son will reveal him."
23. And he turned him unto his Disciples, and said privately,
"Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:
24. "For I tell you,

'THAT MANY PROPHETS AND KINGS
HAVE DESIRED TO SEE
THOSE THINGS WHICH YE SEE
AND HAVE NOT SEEN THEM;
AND TO HEAR
THOSE THINGS WHICH YE HEAR,
AND HAVE NOT HEARD THEM.' ”

. JOHN 14:1-7.

"LET not your heart be troubled:
ye believe in God,
believe also in me.
2. "In my Father's House are many Mansions:
if it were not so, I would have told you.
I go to prepare a place for you.
3. "And if I go and prepare a place for you,
I will come again, and receive you unto myself;
that where I am, there ye may be also.
4. "And whither I go ye know,
and The Way ye know."
5. Thomas saith unto him,
"Lord, we know not whither thou goest;
and how can we know The Way?"
6. Jesus saith unto him,
"I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7. "If ye had known me,
ye should have Known my Father also:
and from henceforth ye Know Him,
and have seen Him."

WHEN DID YAHSHUA TELL YOU THAT GOD WAS OMNISCIENT, OMNIPOTENT, OMNIPRESENT, ALL-LOVING, or any of the other Arbitrary Imaginary Attributes you Sinners made up, so that you could pretend him to be illogical and ridiculous, so that you could reject Him.

. MATTHEW 11:25-30.

25. "At that time Jesus answered and said,
"I thank thee, O Father, Lord of Heaven and Earth,
because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent,
and hast revealed them unto babes.
26. "Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in Thy Sight.
27. "All things are delivered unto me of my Father:
and no man knoweth the Son, but The Father;
neither knoweth any man The Father, save the Son,
and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him."
28. "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden,
and I will give you rest.
29. "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me;
for I am meek and lowly in heart:
and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE IN ANY OF THE COMPLICATED THINGS FALSE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE MADE UP ABOUT GOD.

Your requirements are very simple.

Jack, on the other hand would think that its his freewill to choose between A or B, but it has been decided long ago. Jack therefore has only the delusion of freewill.

THERE ARE EIGHT UNIVERSE REALMS: SEVEN HEAVENS AND EARTH'S UNIVERSE AND REALM.

. 2^nd CHRONICLES 16:9.

9 "For The Eyes of The LORD
run to and fro throughout the whole Earth,
to shew Himself strong in the behalf of them
whose heart is perfect toward Him.
Herein thou hast done foolishly:
therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars."

. AMOS 3:3.

3. "Can two walk together,
except they be agreed?"

. ZECHARIAH 4:10.

10. For who hath despised the Day of small things?
for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet
in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven;
they are The Eyes of The LORD,
Which run to and fro through the whole Earth.

. MATTHEW 6:9-10.

9. "After this manner therefore pray ye:
'Our Father which art in Heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
10. 'Thy Kingdom come,
Thy Will be done in Earth,
as it is in Heaven."

. REVELATION 1:20.

20. "The Mystery of the seven Stars
which thou sawest in my right hand,
and the seven Golden Candlesticks.
The seven Stars are the Angels of the seven Churches:
and the seven Candlesticks which thou sawest
are the seven Churches."

. REVELATION 4:5.

5. And out of The Throne proceeded
lightnings and thunderings and voices:
and there were seven Lamps of Fire
burning before The Throne,
which are The Seven Spirits of God.

. REVELATION 5:6.

6. And I beheld, and, lo,
in the midst of the Throne
and of the four Beasts,
and in the midst of the Elders,
stood a Lamb as it had been slain,
having seven Horns and seven Eyes,
Which are The Seven Spirits of God
sent forth into all the Earth.

THE SEVEN HEAVENS OPERATE AT GOD'S SEVEN LEVELS OF WISDOM AND UNDERSTANDING- ACCORDING TO HIS WILL.

It is not possible to Exist nor Operate in a Heaven without the Level of Spiritual Power consistent with that Realm.

Therefore there are seven Divine Spirits of the Seven Heavens.

Therefore there are seven Heavenly Perception... Arrays.

There are seven Offensive/Defensive Routine... Packages.

Therefore there are seven Churches- according to which Spirits of God they managed to acquire.

The least manifestation of Spirit of God acquisition is THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.

. 2^nd PETER 1:5-9.

5. And beside this, giving all diligence,
add to your Faith Virtue; and to virtue Knowledge;
6. And to knowledge Temperance;
and to temperance Patience; and to patience Godliness;
7. And to godliness Brotherly Kindness;
and to brotherly kindness Charity.
8. For if these things be in you, and abound,
they make you that ye shall neither be
barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9. But he that lacketh these things is blind,
and cannot see afar off,
and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

THE GREATEST POWER OF THE EARTH UNIVERSE IS FAITH: KNOWLEDGE THAT THE WORD OF GOD IS TRUE WITHOUT ANY SENSORY EVIDENCE.

. MARK 11:20-26.

20. And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
21. And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him,
"Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away."
22. And Jesus answering saith unto them,
"Have Faith in God.
23. "For verily I say unto you,

'THAT WHOSOEVER SHALL SAY UNTO THIS MOUNTAIN,

"BE THOU REMOVED,
AND BE THOU CAST INTO THE SEA;"

AND SHALL NOT DOUBT IN HIS HEART,
BUT SHALL BELIEVE THAT THOSE THINGS
WHICH HE SAITH SHALL COME TO PASS;
HE SHALL HAVE WHATSOEVER HE SAITH.'

24. "Therefore I say unto you,

'WHAT THINGS SOEVER YE DESIRE,
WHEN YE PRAY,
BELIEVE THAT YE RECEIVE (THEM)
AND YE SHALL HAVE THEM.'

25. "And when ye stand praying,
forgive, if ye have ought against any:
that your Father also Which is in Heaven
may forgive you your trespasses.
26. "But if ye do not forgive,
neither will your Father Which is in Heaven
forgive your trespasses."

. ROMANS 10:17.

17. So then Faith (cometh) by hearing,
and hearing by the Word of God.

. 2^nd CORINTHIANS 5:7.

7. [For we walk by Faith, not by sight:]

. HEBREWS 11:1.

NOW Faith is the Substance of things hoped for,
the Evidence of things not seen.

THIS POWER- WHICH CAN UPROOT TREES AND MOUNTAINS, EVEN EFFORTLESSLY- IS A COMPLETE NON-STARTER IN HEAVEN.

If you went to Heaven with such Power of Faith that you could fly at the Speed of Light, HERE- THERE, you would not even be able to STAND UP.

PENTECOSTALS should be familiar with that manifestation.

ONLY those who have the REAL Spirit-of-God Class of power can enter and operate in Heaven.

. JOB 39:13-18.

13. "Gavest thou the goodly wings unto the peacocks?
or wings and feathers unto the ostrich?
14. "Which leaveth her eggs in the earth,
and warmeth them in dust,
15. "And forgetteth that the foot may crush them,
or that the wild beast may break them.
16. "She is hardened against her young ones,
as though they were not her's:
her labour is in vain without fear;
17. "Because God hath deprived her of Wisdom,
neither hath he imparted to her Understanding.
18." What time she lifteth up herself on high,
she scorneth the horse and his rider."

THEREFORE, GOD DOES NOT TRACK, NOR PREDICT, NOR ACCOMPANY THOSE WHO OPERATE ON 8^th LEVEL POWER.

Such are BENEATH His Level of Thinkingness.

He does not know what such are going to do next, because He not only does not want to know, He cannot want to know.

. ISAIAH 55:6-11.

6. Seek ye The LORD while He may be found,
call ye upon Him while he is near:
7. Let the Wicked forsake his Way,
and the Unrighteous man his Thoughts:
and let him return unto The LORD,
and He will have mercy upon him;
and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.

8. "FOR MY THOUGHTS ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS,
NEITHER ARE YOUR WAYS MY WAYS," saith the LORD.
9. "FOR AS THE HEAVENS ARE HIGHER THAN THE EARTH,
SO ARE MY WAYS HIGHER THAN YOUR WAYS,
AND MY THOUGHTS THAN YOUR THOUGHTS.

10. "For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from Heaven,
and returneth not thither, but watereth the Earth,
and maketh it bring forth and bud,
that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11. "So shall My Word be that goeth forth out of My Mouth:
It shall not return unto Me void,
but It shall accomplish that which I please,
and It shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent It."

THOSE WHO DO NOT ABIDE BY HIS WORD ARE IRRELEVANT TO HIM- AS A MERCY.

If God has to confront SINNERS, He will have to do something about their SINS.

He cannot be a party to their Wickedness.

This fact shows that if God exist, then man does not have a real freewill but a delusion of it.

"FACT?" What "Fact?"

What you did was make a drunken, irresponsible, blasphemous accusation, based on your Sinner's Presumption of how God should operate.

This therefore makes God a villain by making man believe that a delusion is reality. But isnt that what religion is all about? Religion is all about deception, and God is all about getting worshiped.

GOD HAS NOR DELUDED ANYONE, BUT HUMANS HAVE DELUDED THEMSELVES, THROUGH LAZY THINKING.

How exactly is God a fraudster? I will use two events in the bible to show how God or at least the idea of God has defrauded man.

Oh, goody- just what we need- MORE OF YOUR DELUSIONS.....

1. The fall of man - According to Gen 3, God supposedly gave man the choice of eating or not eating from the tree of knowledge, out of which man ate and God got furious. In his furiousness, he punished man.

Where did God give Adam and Eve a choice of eating or not eating the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

Why can't you show us the Scriptures?

Are you afraid of exposing you Functional Illiteracy?

. GENESIS 2:16-17.

16. And The LORD God Commanded the man, saying,
Of every Tree of The Garden thou mayest freely eat:
17. "But of The Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil,
thou shalt not eat of it:
for in the Day that thou eatest thereof
thou shalt surely die."

GOD COMMANDED ADAM NOT TO EAT FROM THE TREE, AND TOLD ADAM WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF HE ATE FROM THE TREE.

EVE DEMONSTRATED that she HAD received the memo.

. GENESIS 3:1-13.

NOW the Serpent was more subtil
than any Beast of the Field
which the LORD God had made.
And he said unto the woman,
"Yea, hath God said,
'Ye shall not eat of every Tree of the Garden?' "
2. And the woman said unto the Serpent,
"We may eat of the fruit of the Trees of the Garden:
3. "But of the fruit of the Tree
which is in the midst of the Garden,
God hath said,

'YE SHALL NOT EAT OF IT,
NEITHER SHALL YE TOUCH IT,
LEST YE DIE.' "

4. And the Serpent said unto the woman,
"Ye shall not surely die:
5. "For God doth know that in the Day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened,
and ye shall be as gods, knowing Good and Evil."
6. And when the woman saw that the Tree was good for food,
and that it was pleasant to the eyes,
and a Tree to be desired to make one Wise,
she took of the fruit thereof,
and did eat,
and gave also unto her husband with her;
and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened,
and they knew that they were naked;
and they sewed fig leaves together,
and made themselves aprons.
8. And they heard The Voice of The LORD God
walking in the Garden in the cool of the day:
and Adam and his wife hid themselves
from The Presence of The LORD God
amongst the trees of the Garden.
9. And The LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him,
" Where art thou?"
10. And he said,
"I heard Thy Voice in the Garden,
and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself."
11. And He said,
"Who told thee that thou wast naked?
Hast thou eaten of the Tree,
whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?"
12. And the Man said,
"The Woman whom thou gavest to be with me,
she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13. And The LORD God said unto the Woman,
"What is this that thou hast done?"
And the Woman said,
"The Serpent beguiled me, and I did eat."

[CONCLUDING MY ANALISIS OF THAT YOUR COOKED-BRAIN POST: @OOMAN.]

But if God is truly omniscient, then he must have known that man would eat from the tree of knowledge, why then did he get furious enough to punish man?? That is the problem here, the fraud.

WHO TOLD YOU THAT HE KNEW?

GOD SPECIFICALLY asked Adam WHERE HE WAS, and WHAT HAD HAPPENED, consistent with His NOT-KNOWING, NOT being "OMNISCIENT."

He was not PRESENT- proving that He was NOT OMNIPRESENT- as some fools require to think that He is.

He was not able to ERASE this incident to HIS Satisfaction- implying that He is not OMNIPOTENT.

MOSES DID NOT HAVE TO KNOW ALL OF THESE DETAILS, IF GOD WANTED TO PRETEND TO HAVE POWERS THAT HE COULD NOT HAVE.

God made Adam and Eve look stupid and God pretended as if he never knew they were going to eat from the tree and he punished them and sent them off Eden.

So, if God knew they were going to eat from the tree, why get furious again - this means he is a fraud by pretending he never knew.

NO- YOU are the one looking stupid.

You cannot even THINK that there COULD be a REASON why He would not know what YOU THINK he should know.

. EXODUS 20:16.

16. "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."

One of God's FUNDAMENTAL LAWS that He felt the need to DICTATE IN PERSON, is that YOU DON'T issue FALSE ACCUSATIONS against your NEIGHBOUR- let alone GOD!

But the religious will not agree with the above - this immediately suggest that God is not omniscient.

WHO CARES WHAT "THE RELIGIOUS" THINK?

It is what SCRIPTURE says that is important.

So it is either God is not omniscient or he is a fraudster, no other option is possible.

You demonstrate your inability to think rationally and intelligently by first declaring that you have thought of two possible options.

(1) THAT GOD IS NOT OMNISCIENT.

Which is what He has gone out-of-His-Way to DEMONSTRATE to us here.

(2) THAT GOD IS A FRAUDSTER.

About which you have been quite vocal, while basing everything on your arbitrary unjust presumptions.

God defrauded man by making it seem as if it was man's decision to eat from the tree.

*KABOOM!* OPTION ONE IS C4' EXPLODED TO DEATH- for no reason than to abuse GOD like an IDIOT.

. LEVITICUS 24:10-16.

10. And the son of an Israelitish woman,
whose father was an Egyptian,
went out among the Children of Israel:
and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel
strove together in the camp;
11. And the Israelitish woman's son
blasphemed The Name of the Lord, and cursed.
And they brought him unto Moses:
(and his mother's name was Shelomith,
the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan
12. And they put him in ward,
that the mind of The LORD might be shewed them.
13. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
14. "Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp;
and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head,
and let all the Congregation stone him.
15. "And thou shalt speak unto the Children of Israel, saying,

'WHOSOEVER CURSETH HIS GOD SHALL BEAR HIS SIN.
16. 'AND HE THAT BLASPHEMETH THE NAME OF THE LORD,
HE SHALL SURELY BE PUT TO DEATH,
AND ALL THE CONGREGATION SHALL CERTAINLY STONE HIM:
AS WELL THE STRANGER, AS HE THAT IS BORN IN THE LAND,
WHEN HE BLASPHEMETH THE NAME OF THE LORD,
SHALL BE PUT TO DEATH.' "

This he did so that man would think he had disobeyed God and so owed God a lifetime of worship in return for his salvation that he offered us.

God inveigled the human race and made us think we are the villains when in fact he is the criminal. This is an act of fraudulent.

SUDDENLY, YOU CLAIM TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE ATTRIBUTES OF GOD AND HUMANS!

You claim to know what God intended- because you can READ HIS MIND- or... you know that ONLY POSSIBLE EXPLANATION for God's Actions!

You claim to know the Purpose of Worship- that Humans are supposed to worship God because Adam and Eve Sinned?

Then what do the ANGELS worship God for?

IDIOT.

2. The betrayal of Judas - According to the Gospels, a man named Judas betrayed Jesus, he later committed suicide because he thought it was his own freewill at work.

JUDAS went and sold out Yahshua for money, then came to his senses, as many criminals do, and realized that what he had done was very wrong.

. EXODUS 23:1-9.

"THOU shalt not raise a false report:
put not thine hand with the Wicked
to be an Unrighteous Witness.
2. "Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do Evil;
neither shalt thou speak in a cause
to decline after many to wrest Judgment:
3. "Neither shalt thou countenance
a poor man in his cause.
4. "If thou meet thine enemy's
ox or his ass going astray,
thou shalt surely bring it back to him again.
5. "If thou see the ass of him that hateth thee
lying under his burden,
and wouldest forbear to help him,
thou shalt surely help with him.
6. "Thou shalt not wrest the Judgment
of thy Poor in his cause.
7. "Keep thee far from a false matter;
and the Innocent and Righteous slay thou not:
for I will not justify the Wicked.
8. "And thou shalt take no Gift:
for the gift blindeth the Wise,
and perverteth the words of the Righteous.
9. "Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger:
for ye know the heart of a stranger,
seeing ye were strangers in the Land of Egypt.”

. LEVITICUS 19:11-18.

11. "Ye shall not steal,
neither deal falsely,
neither lie one to another.
12. "And ye shall not swear by My Name falsely,
neither shalt thou profane The Name of thy God:
I am the LORD.
13. "Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him:
the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee
all night until the morning.
14. "Thou shalt not curse the deaf,
nor put a stumblingblock before the blind,
but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD."
15. "Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment:
thou shalt not respect the person of the poor,
nor honor the person of the mighty:
but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16. "Thou shalt not go up and down
as a talebearer among thy people:
neither shalt thou stand against
the blood of thy neighbour;
I am the LORD.
17. "Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart:
thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy Neighbour,
and not suffer sin upon him.
18. "Thou shalt not avenge,
nor bear any grudge against the Children of thy People,
but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD."

THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL SPENT ALL THEIR LIVES LEARNING RIGHT AND WRONG FROM THESE 613 COMMANDMENTS.

JUDAS KNEW FULL WELL that what he was about to do was WRONG- but he DID it anyway.

When we complete actions, our Left Brain and Right Brain Communicate Data- or so the Psychiatrists say- and "IT SEEMED LIKE A GOOD IDEA AT THE TIME!" now appears to be very stupid.

JUDAS ISCARIOT decided to forget everything Yahshua had taught them concerning REPENTANCE and HANGED HIMSELF.

But if God is truly omniscient, then he must have known that Judas would betray Jesus, but he pretended and played dumb.
The fraud here is this - Because God already knew that Judas would betray Jesus, since he is omniscient, and because someone must betray Jesus for God's dumb plan to work, then it is not Judas freewill to betray Jesus because it is either Judas betrayed Jesus or God is not omniscient anymore. Judas never understood this and after the act, he blamed his freewill and committed suicide.

GOD KNEW WHO WOULD BETRAY YAHSHUA, BECAUSE THE TWELVE DISCIPLES USED HIS POWER.

. JOHN 13:23-27.

23. Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom
one of his Disciples, whom Jesus loved.
24. Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him,
that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.
25. He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him,
“Lord, who is it?”
26. Jesus answered,
"He it is, to whom I shall give a sop,
when I have dipped it."
And when he had dipped the sop,
he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
27. And after the sop Satan entered into him.
Then said Jesus unto him,
"That thou doest, do quickly."

YOU ARE SPECULATING, BECAUSE YOUR MIND IS SO FEEBLE, THAT YOU CANNOT EVEN REMEMBER THE WELL-KNOWN SCRIPTURE.

However, what Yahshua knew was AFTER JUDAS HAD DECIDED TO BETRAY HIM.

. MATTHEW 12:33-37.

33. "Either make the tree good, and his fruit good;
or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt:
for the tree is known by his fruit.
34. "O Generation of Vipers,
how can ye, being evil, speak good things?
for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35. "A good man out of the good treasure of the heart
bringeth forth good things:
and an evil man out of the evil treasure
bringeth forth evil things.
36. "But I say unto you,

'THAT EVERY IDLE WORD THAT MEN SHALL SPEAK,
THEY SHALL GIVE ACCOUNT THEREOF
IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT.'

37. "For by thy words thou shalt be justified,
and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

God defrauded Judas of his life by deceiving him into thinking it was his freewill to betray Jesus when in fact he must for God's omniscience to remain valid.

WHAT WORDS DID JUDAS ISCARIOT NOT UNDERSTAND?

. DEUTERONOMY 30:19-20.

19. I call Heaven and Earth
to record this Day against you,
that I have set before you Life and Death,
Blessing and Cursing: therefore choose Life,
That both thou and thy seed may live:
20. That thou mayest love The LORD thy God,
and that thou mayest obey His Voice,
and that thou mayest cleave unto Him:
for He is thy life, and the length of thy days:
that thou mayest dwell in the Land
which the LORD sware unto thy fathers,
to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

WHY DID JUDAS ISCARIOT DECIDE TO DISOBEY THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND BETRAY SOMEONE WHOM HE KNEW DAMN WELL WAS THE SON OF GOD, AND THE MESSENGER OF GOD, AND DID NOT DESERVE SUCH TREATMENT?

Having realized that he was in the wrong, why didn't he come forward to testify on YAHSHUA"S BEHALF, and, if he could not get him exonerated, then at least have the honour of dying with him?

ALL SIN IN THE WORLD WOULD STOP, IF ALL MANKIND DECIDED TO OBEY THE SHORTEST COMMANDMENT IN THE BIBLE- IN DEUTERONOMY 30:19:

[size=72pt]"CHOOSE LIFE!"[/size]

This proves that if God exist, then we do not have freewill, all the evils in the world are just what God planned.

BUT YOU HAVEN'T PROVEN ANYTHING- you are, like Judas Iscariot, a BLIND FOOL, who runs off his mouth pompously- until the day that your eyes are opened, and you see that you have betrayed the one Entity bringing you Eternal Life- and for WHAT? A few short-term gains.

God is a fraud. He defrauded us into thinking we have freewill so we would think that all our mistakes are a result of our freewill and so feel like we owe him lifetime of worship in order to save us.

. MATTHEW 5:2-13.

2. And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3. "Blessed are the poor in spirit:
for theirs is The Kingdom of Heaven.
4. "Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5. "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the Earth.
6. "Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after Righteousness:
for they shall be filled.
7. "Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8. "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9. "Blessed are the Peacemakers:
for they shall be called The Children of God.
10. "Blessed are they which are persecuted
for righteousness' sake:
for theirs is The Kingdom of Heaven.
11. "Blessed are ye, when men
shall revile you, and persecute you,
and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely,
for my sake.
12. "Rejoice, and be exceeding glad:
for Great is your Reward in Heaven:
for so persecuted they the Prophets
which were before you.
13. "Ye are the Salt of the Earth:
but if the salt have lost his savour,
wherewith shall it be salted?
it is thenceforth good for nothing,
but to be cast out,
and to be trodden under foot of men."

IF GOD HAS MADE OUR DECISIONS FOR US, WHAT USE ARE WE?

Why should He have even bothered to create Human beings at all, if we cannot have enough commonsense to obey His Commandments, to save our own lives? Why send people to preach The Gospel- suffering the most horrible hardships of adversity and persecution, if HE had DECIDED that for some people, it was going to be a waste of time- but He just wanted to make some of His puppets waste their time?

For God, it is not about us, it is about him getting worshiped, this is why he defrauded us.

God is a fraud and we must do away with such a villain. Think and choose wisely

WHEN GOD IS WORSHIPPED CORRECTLY, THE WORSHIPPER IS SYNCHRONIZED WITH GOD, AND THEREFORE GOD LOCATES THEM ON THE EARTH, OR WHEREVER THEY ARE, AND DESCENDS TO WHERE THEY ARE, AND BESTOWS THE IMPRINT OF HIS POWER ON THEM.

He created us- why should He not be worshipped?

It seems that you are such an EVIL IDIOT, that you lack GRATITUDE, and prefer PRIDE over SURVIVAL.

Like PAUL, and the PHARISEES, you are justifying your Sins, saying that some UNCONTROLLABLE FORCE makes you commit them- WHICH YOU BLAME ON GOD.

. ROMANS 7:7-25.

7. What shall we say then? "Is The Law sin?"
God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by The Law:
for I had not known lust, except The Law had said,

"THOU SHALT NOT COVET."

8. But Sin, taking occasion by the Commandment,
wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.
For without The Law Sin was dead.
9. For I was alive without The Law once:
but when the Commandment came, Sin revived, and I died.
10. And the Commandment, which was ordained to Life,
I found to be unto Death.
11. For Sin, taking occasion by the Commandment, deceived me,
and by it slew me.
12. Wherefore The Law is holy,
and The Commandment holy,
and just, and good.
13. Was then that which is good made Death unto me? God forbid.
But Sin, that it might appear Sin,
working Death in me by that which is Good;
that Sin by the Commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14. For we know that the Law is spiritual:
but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15. For that which I do I allow not:
for what I would,
that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16. If then I do that which I would not,
I consent unto the Law that it is good.
17. Now then it is no more I that do it,
but Sin that dwelleth in me.
18. For I know that in me [that is, in my flesh,]
dwelleth no good thing:
for to will is present with me;
but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19. For the Good that I would I do not:
but the Evil which I would not, that I do.
20. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it,
but Sin that dwelleth in me.
21. I find then a Law, that, when I would do good, Evil is present with me.
22. For I delight in The Law of God after the inward man:
23. But I see another Law in my members,
warring against The Law of my Mind,
and bringing me into captivity to the Law of Sin
which is in my members.
24. O wretched man that I am!
who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
So then with the mind I myself serve The Law of God;
but with the flesh The Law of Sin.

WHEN YOU CUT THROUGH PAUL'S INSANE DRIVEL, YOU FIND A FUNDAMENTAL TRUTH:

Paul NEVER loved GOD/

That was IMPOSSIBLE to him, because he never CHOSE LIFE.

Just as YOU have never CHOSEN LIFE, and therefore cannot LOVE GOD.

. 1^st JOHN 5:3.

3. For this is the Love of God,

"THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:"

and His Commandments are not grievous.

THE OBEDIENCE OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD PROLONGS OUR LIVES INDEFINITELY.

That is what the Worship of God is all about.

There is no point in worshipping God, if one does not want ETERNAL LIFE.

@ oaroloye, if god is not omnipresent, then this long write up is not necessary. The original idea is to show that god isn't omnipresent, which is what you just confirmed, or agreed to.
So calm down and let god defend himself, if he is anywhere

ooman:
@ oaroloye, if god is not omnipresent, then this long write up is not necessary. The original idea is to show that god isn't omnipresent, which is what you just confirmed, or agreed to.
So calm down and let god defend himself, if he is anywhere

Don't you think it important to understand why it is that God is not omnipresent?

God cannot be separated from His Wisdom, Knowledge, nor Power.

In the Spiritual Realm, there is no such thing as a "part" of an object or an entity; either the entirety of it is available, or else none of it is available. This Principle is applied in Psychometric Divination- where the Seer perceives information about, day, s person, through contact with some possession of theirs'. Anecdotally applied to solve Law Enforcement Missing Persons cases.

If God were present on the Earth, He would have to react to conditions in the area He exercised His Presence in.

That would entail Him enforcing His Law on at least 1^st Heaven Level (7^th Awareness Level), dispensing Rewards, or inflicting Punishments- executing Judgment.

If He just wanted to punish Sinners, He would simply come down here and do it. However, whereas THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL (Virtue) is His least (7^th) Attribute, It is overruled by His Higher Attributes: (6^th) KNOWLEDGE, (5t^h) TEMPERANCE, and (4^th) PATIENCE, specifically, besides the other Attributes.

The Old Testament Prophets may have had to say that "GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS," because they could not Understand Them, because they could not think at that level, nor were they required to. We to not have that excuse, because The Son of God has opened The Mysteries of The Kingdom of Heaven to us, and we are liable, should we ignore his Revelation.

oaroloye:


Don't you think it important to understand why it is that God is not omnipresent?

God cannot be separated from His Wisdom, Knowledge, nor Power.

In the Spiritual Realm, there is no such thing as a "part" of an object or an entity; either the entirety of it is available, or else none of it is available. This Principle is applied in Psychometric Divination- where the Seer perceives information about, day, s person, through contact with some possession of theirs'. Anecdotally applied to solve Law Enforcement Missing Persons cases.

If God were present on the Earth, He would have to react to conditions in the area He exercised His Presence in.

That would entail Him enforcing His Law on at least 1^st Heaven Level (7^th Awareness Level), dispensing Rewards, or inflicting Punishments- executing Judgment.

If He just wanted to punish Sinners, He would simply come down here and do it. However, whereas THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL (Virtue) is His least (7^th) Attribute, It is overruled by His Higher Attributes: (6^th) KNOWLEDGE, (5t^h) TEMPERANCE, and (4^th) PATIENCE, specifically, besides the other Attributes.

The Old Testament Prophets may have had to say that "GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS," because they could not Understand Them, because they could not think at that level, nor were they required to. We to not have that excuse, because The Son of God has opened The Mysteries of The Kingdom of Heaven to us, and we are liable, should we ignore his Revelation.

Its funny how you think you know the mind of god enough to explain how he works and what he'd do in particular situations.

You are yet to prove this god even exist anywhere. No one has ever proved his chosen god exists.

I have debated the idea of gods alot, and after years doing that, I have settled. And am not about to begin again.

ooman:


Its funny how you think you know the mind of god enough to explain how he works and what he'd do in particular situations.

The first thing you learn about Yahweh God is that He has intermediaries called "PROPHETS," who define His Ways to the unSpiritual.

You are yet to prove this god even exist anywhere.

There is no easy proof for the non-Spiritual.

Your "Invincible Ignorance" is a Level of Mental Stability which is shattered by Proof that does not come through Rational Introduction.

No one has ever proved his chosen god exists.

An honest person would not say that.

An honest person would say that they do not know anyone who has proven that their God or gods exist.

JAMES RANDI could not honestly say that no one ever proved that the Supernatural does not exist; at best, he can only say that he has never met anyone who showed him such proof.

I have debated the idea of gods alot, and after years doing that, I have settled.

Oyinbos like to talk. They like to believe that words spoken at the Level of Ignorance have significance.

And am not about to begin again.

You quit before you achieved results.

You are a quitter.

Yahshua said that Fruits are achieved by the Patient.

The Prophets of The Bible who experienced God- were any of them impatient people?

You seem to believe that God needs to reveal himself to you, under conditions of your own choosing, isn't that right?

You do not believe that you have to change your thinking and your behavior in order to survive Direct Experience of God?

ooman:
The topic of mutual exclusion of omniscience and freewill is a topic that exposes many things about the nature of God.
This topic just didnt immediately mean that God does not exist if we have freewill, it also means that If God exist, then we dont have freewill. What we therefore call freewill is only a delusion because if Jack has two options - A and B, and if an omniscient being knows that Jack was going to choose B, then Jack MUST choose B, if not, the omniscient being is not omniscient anymore.
Jack, on the other hand would think that its his freewill to choose between A or B, but it has been decided long ago. Jack therefore has only the delusion of freewill.
This fact shows that if God exist, then man does not have a real freewill but a delusion of it. This therefore makes God a villain by making man believe that a delusion is reality. But isnt that what religion is all about? Religion is all about deception, and God is all about getting worshiped.

How exactly is God a fraudster? I will use two events in the bible to show how God or at least the idea of God has defrauded man.

1. The fall of man - According to Gen 3, God supposedly gave man the choice of eating or not eating from the tree of knowledge, out of which man ate and God got furious. In his furiousness, he punished man.
But if God is truly omniscient, then he must have known that man would eat from the tree of knowledge, why then did he get furious enough to punish man?? That is the problem here, the fraud.
God made Adam and Eve look stupid and God pretended as if he never knew they were going to eat from the tree and he punished them and sent them off Eden.

So, if God knew they were going to eat from the tree, why get furious again - this means he is a fraud by pretending he never knew.

But the religious will not agree with the above - this immediately suggest that God is not omniscient.

So it is either God is not omniscient or he is a fraudster, no other option is possible.

God defrauded man by making it seem as if it was man's decision to eat from the tree. This he did so that man would think he had disobeyed God and so owed God a lifetime of worship in return for his salvation that he offered us.

God inveigled the human race and made us think we are the villains when in fact he is the criminal. This is an act of fraudulent.

2. The betrayal of Judas - According to the Gospels, a man named Judas betrayed Jesus, he later committed suicide because he thought it was his own freewill at work.
But if God is truly omniscient, then he must have known that Judas would betray Jesus, but he pretended and played dumb.
The fraud here is this - Because God already knew that Judas would betray Jesus, since he is omniscient, and because someone must betray Jesus for God's dumb plan to work, then it is not Judas freewill to betray Jesus because it is either Judas betrayed Jesus or God is not omniscient anymore. Judas never understood this and after the act, he blamed his freewill and committed suicide.

God defrauded Judas of his life by deceiving him into thinking it was his freewill to betray Jesus when in fact he must for God's omniscience to remain valid.

This proves that if God exist, then we do not have freewill, all the evils in the world are just what God planned.

God is a fraud. He defrauded us into thinking we have freewill so we would think that all our mistakes are a result of our freewill and so feel like we owe him lifetime of worship in order to save us. For God, it is not about us, it is about him getting worshiped, this is why he defrauded us.

God is a fraud and we must do away with such a villain. Think and choose wisely

Act 17 vs 30

in the days of ignorance God winked ( allow to pass unnoticed) but now charges all people everywhere to repent.

The ill activities or drawback of religion does not make God a fraud.....Perhaps you should tell us who defrauded or 419ed you instead of giving God a new name.

oaroloye:


The first thing you learn about Yahweh God is that He has intermediaries called "PROPHETS," who define His Ways to the unSpiritual.



There is no easy proof for the non-Spiritual.

Your "Invincible Ignorance" is a Level of Mental Stability which is shattered by Proof that does not come through Rational Introduction.



An honest person would not say that.

An honest person would say that they do not know anyone who has proven that their God or gods exist.

JAMES RANDI could not honestly say that no one ever proved that the Supernatural does not exist; at best, he can only say that he has never met anyone who showed him such proof.



Oyinbos like to talk. They like to believe that words spoken at the Level of Ignorance have significance.



You quit before you achieved results.

You are a quitter.

Yahshua said that Fruits are achieved by the Patient.

The Prophets of The Bible who experienced God- were any of them impatient people?

You seem to believe that God needs to reveal himself to you, under conditions of your own choosing, isn't that right?

You do not believe that you have to change your thinking and your behavior in order to survive Direct Experience of God?

Continuation of debate when the idea of god is an obvious irrationality is nothing but a waste of time.

What has not been proven cannot be disproved. There is no logic in trying to disprove an unproven position. I do not need to disprove god, he hasnt been proven.

Your prophets make a living out of you, teaching you individual rubbish as they see fit, all in the name of revealing a god that is no where.

Its obvious you lack netiquettes. Just because you are writing on the internet doesnt mean you shouldn't have some level of respect for your discussant and control your emotional outburst. Your manner of speaking cannot make me continue this discussion. It never matters to me anyway.

You do not have to use offensive words to preach a holy god. When you've found your manners, come back.

ooman:


Continuation of debate when the idea of god is an obvious irrationality is nothing but a waste of time.

If it is obvious, why are you incapable of demonstrating your supposedly superior Wisdom?

You claim to have considerable experience debating the Existence of God. What is obvious is that you are not capable of debating.

What has not been proven cannot be disproved.

But the existence of Yahweh God and lesser so-called gods has been proven many times.

God delivered when His Worshipers fulfilled the conditions for His Manifestation; other gods have done the same, and continue to do the same.

All you are doing is mere gainsaying.

There is no logic in trying to disprove an unproven position.

I quite agree; therefore, I only talk about what has been proven.

I do not need to disprove god, he hasnt been proven.

There is no way that you could possibly know that.

At best, you can only say that you have never witnessed such proofs.

In which case, you are an incompetent researcher, as well as an exaggerator.

Your prophets make a living out of you, teaching you individual rubbish as they see fit, all in the name of revealing a god that is no where.

Which Prophets are those?

Name my Prophets, if you claim to know all the Prophets who "made a living out of me?"

All of the Prophets I ever gave money to earned their keep abundantly.

I learned to become a Prophet in my own right, and know what obtains, and what doesn't. Anyone doing less is wasting their time.

I have only had time for genuine Prophets who could deliver what they promised.

Its obvious you lack netiquettes. Just because you are writing on the internet doesnt mean you shouldn't have some level of respect for your discussant and control your emotional outburst.

I have no respect for liars. Get that straight.

Your manner of speaking cannot make me continue this discussion.

You are puffed-up with pride, and therefore unable maintain your inflated opinion of yourself, when someone is able to to point out how very little you know.

An Anthropologist, such as CARLOS CASTANEDA, or MICHAEL HARNER would travel thousands of miles into hazardous territory to investigate the gods of other people, learning what they hitherto had not known, despite how contrary to their education it was, and after much perilous hardship, they came away with useful knowledge.

You have never made such a journey of exploration in your life- you would at the very least have learned patience- all you have ever done is bandy words- and you are not even good at that.

You are still a child, who has to take his bat and his ball and run home crying to his mama, so to speak, because the game does not go his way.

It never matters to me anyway.

It does matter to you, that you are incapable of proving your extravagantly and blatantly false points.

You are merely a dilettante, chasing imaginary points of no value, whereas the real Divine Treasures of Life are meaningless to you.

You do not have to use offensive words to preach a holy god. When you've found your manners, come back.

I indeed do not have to speak offensively: I do it purposely, to weed out the weak-minded and immature, in case they come take on what they cannot bear, thinking it something they can play with at will! If you do not have the strength of character to withstand mid sarcasm and reproof, how will you be able to withstand The Voice of God, telling you of your Sins in intimate detail? You won't. Your mind will just cave in.

SELF-IMPORTANCE is the chief obstacle to Spiritual Learning.

The Spiritually-Ignorant pay more attention to how things are told them than what they are told- and if it is not delivered in the way that they like, they are going to trample it in the dirt, and attack the Messengers of Truth. This has happened since The Beginning of History, and it will continue to the End of the Era.

This is why you could never learn anything.

You let the Earth- that is, the Chemicals in your Brain- dictate your Thoughts and your Actions.

"My ADRENALINE has peaked- IT'S TIME TO GET ANGRY!"

"My NERVES are registering EMOTIONAL PAIN- because of something that I have heard- I had better run away again!"

You are not your BODY: your MIND is supposed to control your Body.

If it is the other way around- your Body telling your Mind what to think and what to do- you will never find any God, because The Enemy can use The Earth to blindfold you.

oaroloye:


If it is obvious, why are you incapable of demonstrating your supposedly superior Wisdom?

You claim to have considerable experience debating the Existence of God. What is obvious is that you are not capable of debating.



But the existence of Yahweh God and lesser so-called gods has been proven many times.

God delivered when His Worshipers fulfilled the conditions for His Manifestation; other gods have done the same, and continue to do the same.

All you are doing is mere gainsaying.



I quite agree; therefore, I only talk about what has been proven.



There is no way that you could possibly know that.

At best, you can only say that you have never witnessed such proofs.

In which case, you are an incompetent researcher, as well as an exaggerator.



Which Prophets are those?

Name my Prophets, if you claim to know all the Prophets who "made a living out of me?"

All of the Prophets I ever gave money to earned their keep abundantly.

I learned to become a Prophet in my own right, and know what obtains, and what doesn't. Anyone doing less is wasting their time.

I have only had time for genuine Prophets who could deliver what they promised.



I have no respect for liars. Get that straight.



You are puffed-up with pride, and therefore unable maintain your inflated opinion of yourself, when someone is able to to point out how very little you know.

An Anthropologist, such as CARLOS CASTANEDA, or MICHAEL HARNER would travel thousands of miles into hazardous territory to investigate the gods of other people, learning what they hitherto had not known, despite how contrary to their education it was, and after much perilous hardship, they came away with useful knowledge.

You have never made such a journey of exploration in your life- you would at the very least have learned patience- all you have ever done is bandy words- and you are not even good at that.

You are still a child, who has to take his bat and his ball and run home crying to his mama, so to speak, because the game does not go his way.




It does matter to you, that you are incapable of proving your extravagantly and blatantly false points.

You are merely a dilettante, chasing imaginary points of no value, whereas the real Divine Treasures of Life are meaningless to you.



I indeed do not have to speak offensively: I do it purposely, to weed out the weak-minded and immature, in case they come take on what they cannot bear, thinking it something they can play with at will! If you do not have the strength of character to withstand mid sarcasm and reproof, how will you be able to withstand The Voice of God, telling you of your Sins in intimate detail? You won't. Your mind will just cave in.

SELF-IMPORTANCE is the chief obstacle to Spiritual Learning.

The Spiritually-Ignorant pay more attention to how things are told them than what they are told- and if it is not delivered in the way that they like, they are going to trample it in the dirt, and attack the Messengers of Truth. This has happened since The Beginning of History, and it will continue to the End of the Era.

This is why you could never learn anything.

You let the Earth- that is, the Chemicals in your Brain- dictate your Thoughts and your Actions.

"My ADRENALINE has peaked- IT'S TIME TO GET ANGRY!"

"My NERVES are registering EMOTIONAL PAIN- because of something that I have heard- I had better run away again!"

You are not your BODY: your MIND is supposed to control your Body.

If it is the other way around- your Body telling your Mind what to think and what to do- you will never find any God, because The Enemy can use The Earth to blindfold you.

smh

ooman:


smh

(*GASP!*)

My collision with your sagacious incisive comeback has totalled me, like I was in an accident- NOT!!!

ooman:


smh

oaroloye:

All you are doing is mere gainsaying.
But the existence of Yahweh God and lesser so-called gods has been proven many times.

God delivered when His Worshipers fulfilled the conditions for His Manifestation; other gods have done the same, and continue to do the same.

I am deeply ashamed that all you could say is "shaking my head".
There is a serious contention over what you believe and all you could do, in the best of all you acclaim as an atheist is smh.
You want to express 'pity' for a man, express it to the point that you feel justified that your conscience is clear.
The man oaroloye - I don't know him from Adam - has beaten you to a pulp.
Atheist rubbish!
Brains are useful for those who think its content is all that matters and never to exceed its limit of use.

Get it right!
You have a spirit.
Don't die without Christ!

Wake up and don't allow your life to waste over falsehood of self-conviction because you are angry at the world and it's unfair systems.