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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion (3428 Views)
Desika's Opinion on The Crucifixion Of Jesus / Questions On The “innocence Of Muslims”. / In Honour Of Muslims That Lost Their Lives In Dana Air (2) (3) (4)
The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by deSika(m): 5:30am On Apr 27, 2013 |
one minute muslims will tell u Jesus did not die on the cross and in another minute u find them trying to explain to you that Jesus called Eli/Ellah/Allah on that same cross.(in a bid to find Allah in the bible) now the question is this. did Jesus die on the cross and while there called Allah or did he not and as such did not have the opportuntity to shout Allah. #by the way i have to give credit to u guys in yur ability to twist Eli/Eloi into Ellah and then into Allahu and then into Allah. just as you twist Alleluya into Allaluya. |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by teniyi(m): 7:02am On Apr 27, 2013 |
Hoax! Cross or stake? The source also gave confusion even to the christian. So what is the muslim headache? |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by deSika(m): 5:47pm On Apr 27, 2013 |
teniyi: Hoax! Cross or stake? The source also gave confusion even to the christian. So what is the muslim headache?abeg help me ask them what is their headache. did he call Allah on a cross or did he not die on a cross so as not be able to call Allah. #maybe he jumped into the cross, shouted Allah and then came down. #my point is muslims make claims without thinking about what they are saying and in so doing expose their folly |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by manmacho: 6:54pm On Apr 27, 2013 |
what history can not deny, quaran have unsuccessfuly tried to deny. |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by vedaxcool(m): 7:32pm On Apr 27, 2013 |
^ And the gospel of barnabas, the balisades, the Paulisades etc And the soldiers came before him, bowing down in mockery, saluting him as King of the Jews. And they held out their hands to receive gifts, such as new kings are accustomed to give; and receiving nothing they smote Judas, saying: 'Now, how are you crowned, foolish king, if you will not pay your soldiers and servants?' The chief priests with the scribes and Pharisees, seeing that Judas died not by the scourges, and fearing lest Pilate should set him at liberty, made a gift of money to the governor, who having received it gave Judas to the scribes and Pharisees as guilty to death. Whereupon they condemned two robbers with him to the death of the cross. So they led him to Mount Calvary, where they used to hang malefactors, and there they crucified him Unclad;, for the greater ignominy. Judas truly did nothing else but cry out: 'God, why have you forsaken me, seeing the malefactor has escaped and I die unjustly?' Truly I say that the voice, the face, and the person of Judas were so like to Jesus, that his disciples and believers entirely believed that he was Jesus; wherefore some departed from the doctrine of Jesus, believing that Jesus had been a false prophet, and that by art magic he had done the miracles which he did: for Jesus had said that he should not die till near the end of the world; for that at that time he should be taken away from the world http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/gbar/ gbar217.htm So are christian implying that despite the fact the Jesus prayed to God to save him, let this cup pass over me . . . God refused his prayer? In essence Jesus prayer was rejected? The burden lays more on your head! |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by manmacho: 7:59pm On Apr 27, 2013 |
vedaxcool: ^U can chose to beleive what u want to believe choice is what u have. But no that the truth is our daily experience more than a text. That truth is Jesus christ whose resurection was confirmed by the apostles. The truth they all died for. |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by vedaxcool(m): 8:14pm On Apr 27, 2013 |
manmacho: Lol I am glad that I falsified your lies, the Gospel of Barnabas clearly rejected the notion of crucifixion of christ! Truth is more than a text? Really? So you got to know about crucified christ by stairing at the skies? Lol u must be cracking jokes indeed! Christ never died for anyone sins, and the bible affirms this and that at the most critical period . . . Jesus disciples forsook him and fled. . . Hence they never confirmed whether he ever died on the cross some many lies and confusion on the cruci problems but pre- eminent of this problems is the fact Jesus never wanted to die and prayed to God to pass the cup over him . . . Believe what you want but Jesus never died on the cross . . . To further prove he was the man for the jews he told them . . . No sign shall be given except the sign of jonah for as jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale so shall the son of man (not God) be in the belly of the earth . . . Commonsense Jonah was alive for three days and three night in the belly of whale . . . You christians falsify this statement by insisting he died! Problems problems problems andit get worse! |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by teniyi(m): 9:20pm On Apr 27, 2013 |
deSika: abeg help me ask them what is their headache. did he call Allah on a cross or did he not die on a cross so as not be able to call Allah.You got it all wrong! I simply made you to understand that the problem started and ended in the bible. Muslim is not the problem here. The contradictions and fallacy lies in the bible. So please try and solve the problem within yourselves before bringing it to the muslims. That was why I asked if Jesus was nailed to the cross or stake? You are bundles of man-worshippers! |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by manmacho: 7:32am On Apr 28, 2013 |
vedaxcool:Like i said ur choice, u can not falsify wat i experience daily. The truth is a living truth more than words on paper, i av come to no it personally through experience for my self. I am not here to argue. U don't no wat u are losing bro... Relationship with the almighty father, the one u think u serve. |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by LagosShia: 10:34am On Apr 28, 2013 |
deSika: one minute muslims will tell u Jesus did not die on the cross and in another minute u find them trying to explain to you that Jesus called Eli/Ellah/Allah on that same cross.(in a bid to find Allah in the bible)you are very silly.you coin and design what to believe and turn that into a religion.you practice ignorance and come here to preach.do you know why? first pointing out that the word "Elah" (if you like twist it into Eli or Eloi) is found in the bible,and according to what is found in the bible Jesus (as) is reported to have made a statement while allegedly dying on the cross or stake,makes no difference as to what the Muslim believe in regards to the Christian belief in crucifixion.the muslim is only trying to let you see how extant the word "Elah" is in the bible and in Aramaic to point out that we muslims refer to God just as it was done in the days of Jesus (as).not once is the word "Yahweh","Jehovah" or even the tetragrammaton (YHWH) from which Christians derive "God's name" is found in the bible.God and Jesus (as) forgot to mention God's name in His "book".how amazing and unbelievable that is?!!! secondly,the word "Elah" (turned into Eli and Eloi) is the root word in Aramaic (the semitic language Jesus spoke,and closely related to Arabic) for calling the Almighty God. he never died.early church fathers of the roman catholic church adopting a unified position to claim that Jesus (as) died on the cross doesn't make the claim true.there were early Christians who did not believe Jesus (as) died on the cross and I will bring the historical evidence,in addition to what is found in the gospel of barnabas,whose authenticity is doubted by Christians.christians need to review their religion and discover that the decision to unify Christendom by imposing many beliefs like the crucifixion to give Christianity a one color is not only based on falsehood but very misleading up to this day for Christians who do not know their past.you need to see that believing in human sacrifice,a belief which contradicts basic tenets of the bible,and also common sense and history,should be thrown away as a stone age ideology that have no place in our modern world.no matter how much Christians package the belief in crucifixion with the shroud of "love" and "sacrifice",it only bounce back to expose the idea that an "unjust" God made an innocent man pay for the "sins" of others (sin,which according to the bible is not inherited or passed from one man to another),and a blood-thirsty "god" who would watch his son die a slow painful death on the cross to please his ego.christians have turned the thirst for blood into "mercy".and worse,it expose a ridiculous and silly "god" who would kill "himself" or his son to pay/please himself for what is punishable of others.its silly!!! I would not give my second car away to a thief who stole my first car (and should be punished) in order that he would be able to pay me back (instead of just forgiving him),would you?
I guess you are pointing finger at me for stating the above in the other thread.may be you can tell us what does Alleluya means and why it is suprising to render it as Allaluya,knowing that El and Al are root words for calling God in semitic languages? And also that "e" and "a" are vowels which can be used interchangeably for semitic languages. this is from a bible site: 1681, 1682. eloi. 1683 >>. ... Word Origin of Aramaic origin elah with pronoun suff. Definition my God NASB Word Usage Eloi (2). http://topicalbible.org/e/eloi.htm |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by LagosShia: 10:36am On Apr 28, 2013 |
According to three out of the four versions of the Gospel present in the Christian Bible, it is said that whilst Jesus was on the way to be crucified, the soldiers escorting him stopped a certain Jewish man who happened to be passing by named Simon of Cyrene, and made him carry the cross for Jesus. Now, read carefully the account given in the Gospel of Matthew [Matthew 27:31-37] and note that the text actually implies the crucifixion of Simon of Cyrene and not Jesus (all Biblical quotes in this article are from the King James translation): 31: And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him. 32: And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross. 33: And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, 34: They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink. 35: And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots. 36: And sitting down they watched him there; 37: And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS. Notice that in verse 32, Simon of Cyrene is referred to, and that in all of the verses following it up to verse 37, Jesus' name is not mentioned, there is only "him" and "he". Thus implying that the word "him" in verse 35 refers to Simon of Cyrene, and not to Jesus. The fact that they wrote a sign above his head claiming him to be Jesus only indicates that this was what they thought. And see Mark's similar account [Mark 15:20-26]: 20: And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple from him, and put his own clothes on him, and led him out to crucify him. 21: And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross. 22: And they bring him unto the place Golgotha, which is, being interpreted, The place of a skull. 23: And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not. 24: And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take. 25: And it was the third hour, and they crucified him. 26: And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. These two accounts clearly imply the likelihood that Simon of Cyrene was the one crucified instead of Jesus. However, due to the belief that later came to prevail among the Christians regarding the crucifixion of Jesus, along with the confusion that they must have had in reconciling all of the contradictory accounts, it is likely that much of the other content of those gospels regarding events afterwards was doctored and distorted. The accounts of Luke and John [Luke 23:26-43, John 19:17-27] are fairly unambiguous that Jesus was crucified, however these two accounts are considered to have been authored at a later period than those of Mark and Matthew. The author of Luke, as is evident from certain other writings in the New Testament, was clearly an adherent of the teachings of Paul, while the identity of the author of John is controversial, although it is certain from the content of his Gospel that he held many of the complicated beliefs of the Greek philosophers and thinkers, rather than the simple Semitic monotheism that Jesus so clearly taught. Then I found this interesting piece of information on Wikipedia: "According to some Gnostic traditions, [b]Simon of Cyrene, by mistaken identity, suffered the events leading up to the crucifixion, and died on the cross instead of Jesus. [/b]This is the story presented in the Second Treatise of the Great Seth, although it is unclear whether Simon or another actually died on the cross, This belief is also held by many Muslims, " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_of_Cyrene The following is the translation by Roger A. Bullard and Joseph A. Gibbons of the relevant portion of the work known as "The Second Treatise of the Great Seth" mentioned above, which is one of a collection of early Christian gnostic writings dated around the 3rd or 4th century CE that was discovered near the Egyptian town of Nag' Hammadi in 1945. The quote is attributed to Jesus: "For my death, which they think happened, (happened) to them in their error and blindness, since they nailed their man unto their death, It was another, who drank the gall and the vinegar; it was not I. They struck me with the reed; it was another, Simon, who bore the cross on his shoulder. I[t] was another upon Whom they placed the crown of thorns, And I was laughing at their ignorance." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_, the_Great_Seth And here is what the Catholic Encyclopedia has to say in its online article on Docetism (an early Christian sect regarded as "heretical" by the later Church): "According to Basilides, Christ seemed to men to be a man and to have performed miracles. It was not, however, Christ, who suffered but Simon of Cyrene who was constrained to carry the cross and was mistakenly crucified in Christ's stead. Simon having received Jesus' form, Jesus returned Simon's and thus stood by and laughed. Simon was crucified and Jesus returned to his father (Irenaeus, Adv. Char., 1, xxiv). According to some apocrypha it was Judas, not Simon the Cyrenean, who was thus substituted." http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05070c.htm Obviously, many of the other beliefs of the Docetists and other Gnostic sects are clear-cut kufr and deviance, however what is relevant here is the admission by the Christians themselves that there was indeed a controversy from the very earliest periods of Christianity regarding who exactly was killed on the cross. And indeed, Allah revealed the truth of the matter in his Saying: {And because of their saying: "We killed the Messiah, 'Isa the son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah." But they killed him not, nor did they crucify him, but it was made to appear to them so, and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no knowledge; they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely, they killed him not.} [An-Nisa': 157] And Allah knows better. courtesy: http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f15/but-they-killed-him-not-nor-did-16671/ 1 Like |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by LagosShia: 10:37am On Apr 28, 2013 |
SIMON OF CYRENE "According to some Gnostic traditions, Simon of Cyrene, by mistaken identity, suffered the events leading up to the crucifixion, and died on the cross instead of Jesus. This is the story presented in the Second Treatise of the Great Seth, although it is unclear whether Simon or another actually died on the cross". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_of_Cyrene Second Treatise of the Great Seth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Treatise_of_the_Great_Seth THE BIBLE SAYS HE IS ALIVE,NOT "RESURRECTED"!!! He's Alive! the word "resurrected" is not used in the new testament once when the disciples of Jesus were reacting to the news that Jesus was not dead but alive.infact,they keep screaming "he's alive",meaning "not dead" since all of them had received the news that Jesus was sentenced to death and they expected him to have died!if they truly knew Jesus was killed,and had returned from the dead,they surely would have repeatedly exclaimed:"he's resurrected"!but not once!!! Luke 24:23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 2 Likes |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by vedaxcool(m): 1:52pm On Apr 28, 2013 |
^ Oga haba, now desika would not post on his own thread! WELL DONE!!! Couldn't have done better! |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by deSika(m): 1:34am On Apr 29, 2013 |
@ Vedaxcool so yu aresaying Jesus did not die on the cross. and that meanns he did not say Allah. wow thanks for that clarification. pls tell yur muslim brothers to stop saying that Jesus called Allah ON THE CROSS... @LagosShia I must say i am impressed with you this time around. no copy pasting from you and you answered the op directly. thats a gud one. shortly i wil talk about wat yu said.. @Teniyi. yu can not wish away the headache from the muslims o. they bring it on themselves. when they say two opposing things. the christians are not the ones saying Jesus died or did not die on the cross. by saying that Jesus said Allah wen he was on the cross. they shud know that they are actually saying that Jesus was on the cross. let them clear up this headache. thank u @manmacho thanks bro for ur post. can u even imagine that they look for heretical (wrong) books to back up their claims. imagine looking up to a known criminal who has a reputation for lieing to give credence to ur claims |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by deSika(m): 1:36am On Apr 29, 2013 |
@Ved i already know that Muslims dont agree that Jesus died on the cross. but i needed u to clear me up on who said Allah on the cross. thank you |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by deSika(m): 1:41am On Apr 29, 2013 |
vedaxcool: ^ if i may advice tell ur muslim brothers who try to tell the world that Allah is in the bible to correct themselves. henceforth they shud start saying that it was Judas who shouted Allah on the cross. am sure by now yu get my point and again please tell them to come to a consensus on who really impersonated Jesus. is it A. Judas b. Simon of cyrene they should stop confusing us |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by deSika(m): 2:39am On Apr 29, 2013 |
like i said. LagosShia dis ur response tackled directly my op. unlike mr Ved who started explaining to me why Jesus did not die (wch i already knew the muslim claim on this)and forgot the Allah part of my op LagosShia:seriously christians do not coin doctrines from no where.. they adopt them from the bible. do you know why? first pointing out that the word "Elah" (if you like twist it into Eli or Eloi) is found in the bible,and according to what is found in the bible Jesus (as) is reported to have made a statement while allegedly dying on the cross or stake,makes no difference as to what the Muslim believe in regards to the Christian belief in crucifixion.the muslim is only trying to let you see how extant the word "Elah" is in the bible and in Aramaic to point out that we muslims refer to God just as it was done in the days of Jesus (as).it makes a whole lot of diference bro..it shows a lack of confidence on the no crucifixion claim. one wud espect that since you dont believe that he died on the cross. anywhere u see the bible showing him on the cross. you wud take that place for granted..since he didnt die on the cross.. therefore he didnt say anything on the cross. even if someone comes to tell u "but he said Allah on the cross". your response wud be "no! Jesus did not die so he did not say any nothing,. how can someone dat did not die by the cross say somthing on the cross. you got the wrong guy" but no.. you say he didnt die on the cross and then turn around to tell me that someone that did not die on the cross said Allah on the cross.. wrong bro. but u must agree that Jesus did not exactly call Allah. he called Ellah. for u to say that he called Allah is a blatant lie. wat he called is Ellah(aramaic) and not Allah(arabic).. do u agree with me on this.. You agree that Jesus was speaking aramaic and not arabic and cud not have mentioned an arabic word(Allah). so pls correct your brothers. [JUST EXPOSED A LIE] [further explanation: if Jesus spoke aramaic then Allah must need be an aramaic word for Jesus to have pronounced it.. but as it stands. Allah is an arabic word ]
pls ponder on this question a little bit did they manufacture their unified position from thin air? |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by deSika(m): 4:16am On Apr 29, 2013 |
LagosShia:1. the bible says Jesus died 2. the Jews agree that he died. and this is their reason why they reject his messiah status. 3. the quran does not agree with your line of reasoning. the quran gives pointer to the following facts 1.. the jews had a grudge/hatred for Jesus 2. this grudge explains why they wanted to kill him. 3.. they actually killed someone that looked like Jesus and guess where on the cross ofcos. i wud have seen gud reasoning on your part if the quran had said the jews and Jesus were best of pals and so there was no need or reason to kill him. then yu wud be asking "how cud they just kill Jesus for NO JUST CAUSE" But as it stands there was a need to kill him. #they actually crucified someone that looked like him. the person they crucified was a Jesus outwardly according to the quran. so in their mind they were killing Jesus and they were convinced at it.. i bet u that if yu LagosShia were there with them yu wud have told anyone who asked that they have killed that Jesus guy. there is no way u wud hav bin able to know that the crucified was not Jesus.[if yu were there wud u have known. an honest answer pls]. u dont have a right to say he was not crucified since ur quran agrees that if not for ur Allah he wud have bin crucified. take note that it is only the quran that knows that it was not Jesus. every other person thought they were killing Jesus. ur quran says the person they killed was a Jesus kind of person to thier eyes.. the quran was trying to deny the death of Jesus but was not clever enough. at least it should have told us that there was no animosity between the jews and Jesus. am sure i wud have made my point but to make it more clearer. UR QURAN SAYS THAT JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED BUT THE JESUS THAT WAS CRUCIFIED IS NOT THE REAL ONE. now u tell me wu is decieving wu.. LagosShia:u as a knowledgeable islam scholar shud not trust that gospel of barnabas. for one that book claims Mohammed is the messiah but Mohammed neva makes this claim rather he says Jesus is the Messiah. u wud trust such an illiterate book at ur own risk thanks but no thanks. by the time they start reviewing it. you wud be the first person to accuse them of adding things to the religion and not being the original. LagosShia:my dear, there is no need to see contrary to wat is clearly spelt out in the bible.(u people are so full of DOUBLE SPEAK.. here u are encouraging me to leave wat is clearly written in the scripture.. and later u wud accuse christians of adopting doctrines not found in their scripture.U ARE CLEARLY BEING DECEPTIVE]. 1. Sacrifice is not strange in the bible. go to the old testament and you wud see priests offering sacrifices for the atonement of sin. did u ever hear about an Abraham sacrificing Isaac story in the bible..[permit me to give u an assignment. pls find out the underlieing principle behind those sacrifices in the bible) 2.. are yu talking about common sense in a religious issue. now humor me a little. wat is common sense in God creating the world in more than one day. isnt he so powerful that he could have made the whole world in one second and go on with other things. LagosShia:seek understanding bro LagosShia:as u wud expet u are not the only one making these false claims understanding is wat u clearly need 1. El is not equal to Al.(u ought to know this) El means "God", Al means "the" as in al-quran, al katib.. you cannot interchange 'the' and 'God' 2. Webster's New World College Dictionary: "hallelujah ... [... Hebrew ... hallelu,( praise) ... + yah, (Jehovah/Yahweh)] used to express praise, thanks, or joy, especially to God as in a hymn or prayer." 1 Like |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by deSika(m): 4:49am On Apr 29, 2013 |
LagosShia: According to three out of the four versions of the Gospel present in the Christian Bible, it is said that whilst Jesus was on the way to be crucified, the soldiers escorting him stopped a certain Jewish man who happened to be passing by named Simon of Cyrene, and made him carry the cross for Jesus.pls refer to my post above on wat yur quran says abt the crucifixion. #u need to do more bible study. pls read that verse u presented. read verses before simon came into the scene. yu wud see some 'him' pls tell me whu dey are refering to. and pls read luke 23 verse 28 and 34 verse 46 says and when Jesus had cried with a loud voice He said, father into thy hand i commend thy spirit and having said thus he gave up the ghost. U DONT HAVE TO BE DECEPTIVE ALL THE TIME. U NEED TO START TELLING YOURSELF SOME TRUTH #trust me on this.. u dont need heretic gnostic materials to give credence to your claims. its just like using an atheist material to give credence to your claims too. |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by deSika(m): 4:54am On Apr 29, 2013 |
LagosShia: SIMON OF CYRENEyou will need to do more bible reading. pls start from chapter 23 of that Luke. thank you. u need to start telling yourself some truth. #they screamed he's alive to confirm to u that he was once dead but now risen. |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by deSika(m): 5:05am On Apr 29, 2013 |
vedaxcool: ^u shud have known me by now. i dont back away just like that from my own threads. #and about his disciples fleeing from Jesus. we read somewhere in John 19:25 -27. Jesus telling his disciple to take care of his (Jesus) mother. we read in mathew 27 verse 55 and 56 and many women were there beholding afaroff which followed Jesus from galilee ministering unto him....... |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by deSika(m): 5:15am On Apr 29, 2013 |
now back to the op. this one is just a test of your honesty if yu can answer it. then u have shown your self to be honest. if cannot thenn know that a spirit of deception rules over you. you need to free yourself from it and now the question did Jesus say Allah on the cross. Yes or no if Yes. it means you agree that Jesus died on the cross if no. then you can see that muslims have been swiming in falsehood and deception. you owe yourself a duty to free yourself |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by vedaxcool(m): 3:33pm On Apr 29, 2013 |
deSika: So you agree Judas not Jesus died on the cross? this is hilarious, so muslims compiled Gospel of Barnabas and the Gospel of luke, mark and mathew? poor you the confusion comes the hands of christains tell them to stop confusing you guys rather than blaming muslims, soon you will say muslims should stop confusing you with the numerous bible |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by deSika(m): 8:09pm On Apr 29, 2013 |
vedaxcool: let me make my point clear to u. since u didnt get it i dont agree that Judas was onn the cross. you were the person who just explained to us that it was Judas on the cross. am just trying to tell you guys to be consistent. if it was Judas who died as yu say. then it follows that it was Judas whu said Allah. but if it was Jesus who said Allah then it follows that Jesus was on the cross.. it cant be that Jesus said Allah on the cross and yet did not hang on the cross. except maybe by chance he jumped into the cross and quickly said Allah then jumped down. #by the way Jesus spoke aramaic and not arabic and cud not have pronounced Allah an arabic word truth is Jesus died on the cross bible attest to this history attests to this (this is 2013 AD) Jews attests to this quran alludes to this welcome to the world of truth |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by vedaxcool(m): 6:40pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
deSika: Lie number 1: I did not explain to you Judas died on the cross, the GOSPEL OF BARNABAS STATED CLEARLY JUDAS DIED on the cross! And was it me or any muslim that compiled Gospel of Barnabass? Clearly not, the gospel of barnabas preceeded Islam, in plain english was before Islam, and clearly christians compiled gospel of Barnabas which flatly rejects the death of christ on the cross! Common sense demands u tell your christian sources to be consistent not me or any other muslims, truth: Jesus never died on the cross and your christian sources attest to this fact and God in the Qur'an attest to that! The truth u invite me to, is one where the god you worships behave as follows: Insults his own mum by calling her woman? Insults his elders by calling them vipers etc Insults a woman by referring her and every other non Jew as Dogs? Claims to forsaken by God? (Do you know what it means to be forsaken by God?) Prays to a bigger god for assistance and yet his prayer amounts to nut? Any religion where one god calls a bigger god is polytheism! I am sorry such "truth" is not meant for one like me, as clearly it is truly a pack of lies concocted by men to mislead men who are weak headed! Islam is the only truth, where Jesus is a responsible, respectful and reasonable individual, where God does not forsake those who are good nor does Jesus call his own mum woman! Now that is truth Thank you! |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by vedaxcool(m): 6:43pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
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Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by vedaxcool(m): 6:55pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
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Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by vedaxcool(m): 7:11pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
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Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by vedaxcool(m): 7:45pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
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Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by deSika(m): 11:54am On May 01, 2013 |
vedaxcool:i dont see any christian quoting from that book thats because to them that book is not fact. for you to quote that book and use it to support your points means that YOU BELIEVE IT TO BE FACT. book of barnabas written by christians, keep amusing yourself. [just in case you didnt know. one of the things a christian believes is that Jesus IS CHRIST. anybody that tells you otherwise is not a christian. that book says Jesus is not the christ. so help yourself with the conclusion. is the book a christian authored book?]hehehehe i laugh in chinese dont tell me you didnt read wat i wrote on the quran. here it is deSika: u dont have a right to say he was not crucified since ur quran agrees that if not for ur Allah he wud have bin crucified. take note that it is only the quran that knows that it was not Jesus. every other person thought they were killing Jesus. ur quran says the person they killed was a Jesus kind of person to thier eyes.. the quran was trying to deny the death of Jesus but was not clever enough. at least it should have told us that there was no animosity between the jews and Jesus.and this is hitbuster deSika: vedaxcool:bro.. u grasping at straws. you are making a big deal out of frivolities. you need to listen to yourself sometimes and you need to get understanding vedaxcool:you are not following your religion intoto on this crucifixion matter.. ur quran says someone was crucified. that someone looked like Jesus. if you were there u wud have taken him to be Jesus. but here you are saying no Jesus was crucified. READ BETWEEN THE LINES BRO. if the person looked like Jesus..according to the quran. how would you expect the people who wrote that he was crucified to be believe otherwise.. think about this. and i reaaly mean think about it. |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by deSika(m): 11:58am On May 01, 2013 |
deSika: now back to the op. |
Re: The Dilema Of Muslims On The Crucifixion by vedaxcool(m): 5:30pm On May 01, 2013 |
deSika: i dont see any christian quoting from that book thats because to them that book is not fact. for you to quote that book and use it to support your points means that YOU BELIEVE IT TO BE FACT. Laugh in cantonese if need be , Gospel of Barnabas was written by christians or so called followers of Jesus, yes they are true christians as a catholic is a heretic to a protestant, and vice versa! so once again blame your christian sources for your own confusion not me or any other muslim and reality hits back, the bolded I understand you to clearly mean that you accept and believe the Qur'an to be Fact since you use it to support your points right? Good now acquaint yourself with the following facts written in the Qur'an: Jesus is NOT THE SON OF GOD Such was Jesus, (Peace be upon him) son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt. It befits not Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing, He says unto it only: ‘Be!’ and it is. “(Maryam, 19:34-35) Jesus LORD is Allah And lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So serve Him. That is the straight path.” (Maryam, 19:36) Jesus was never a burden upon his mum and respectful of her and his elders “Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: ‘O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing. O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a woman unchaste.’ Then she pointed to him. They said, ‘How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy?’ He spoke: ‘Lo! I am the servant of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and has appointed me a Prophet; And has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me prayer and alms- giving so long as I live; And (has made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and has not made me arrogant, wicked. Peace be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!”(Maryam, 19:27-33) Allah rejects the lie of having any son “Such was Jesus, (Peace be upon him) son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt. It befits not Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing, He says unto it only: ‘Be!’ and it is. “(Maryam, 19:34-35) “And they say: ‘The Beneficent has taken unto Himself a son.’ Assuredly you utter a hideous thing, whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall in ruins; That ye ascribe unto the Beneficent a son, when it does not behoove the Beneficent that He should choose a son. There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave.”(Maryam, 19:88-93) “Lo! The likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: ‘Be!’ and he is. “(Ali- Imran, 3:59) “O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, (Peace be upon him) son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His Word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not “Three.” Refrain! (it is) better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that he should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Guardian. The Messiah will never scorn to be a servant of Allah, nor will the favored angels. Whoso scorns His service and is proud, all such will He assemble unto Him; Then, as for those who believed and did good works, unto them will He pay their wages in full, adding unto them of His bounty; and as for those who were scornful and proud, them will He punish with a painful doom, and they will not find for them, against Allah, any protecting friend or helper.” (An-Nisaa, 4:171-174) Jesus denies the lies and falsehood. Of christianity upon him “And when Allah says: ‘O Jesus, (Peace be upon him) son of Mary! Did thou say unto mankind: “Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?”’ he says: ‘Glorified art Thou, it was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I did say it, then Thou knew it. Thou know what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of things hidden. I spoke unto them only that which Thou commanded me, (saying): “Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord…”’” (Al-Maidah, 5:116-117) Jesus foretells Muhammad “And when Jesus, (Peace be upon him) son of Mary, said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who will come after me, whose name is the Praised One.” (As-Saff, 61:6) Jesus was not crucified “And because of their disbelief and of their speaking against Mary a tremendous calumny; And because of their saying: ‘We slew the Messiah, Jesus, Peace be upon him son of Mary, Allah's mes*senger.’ They slew him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain, but Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise. There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.” (An-Nisaa, 4:156-159) Hahaha your own words are clear, since you use the Qur'an to support your points it means YOU Believe the Qur'an to be FACT! We hope your words have value to you, the above was taken from the Qur'an and you must by YOUR OWN WORDS accept what Jesus truly by the Qur'an you believe to be Fact, Jesus is a messenger of Allah, who rejects everything christianity have come to symbolize . . ., you really provide comic effect every time we meet, lets' do it sometime again! |
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