deSika: i hear muslims with the claim that Jesus did not die on the cross. but recently i came across a verse in the quran which points otherwise. now i would ask nl muslims to ponder on this verse of the quran and see that it contradicts the one that says they killed him not.

Quran 19:33
peace on me the day i was born, and the day i die, and the day i shall be raised alive.

what is Jesus saying here
1. the day he was born
2. the day he will die
3, the day he shall be raised

its clear that the above follows chronologically. now if he will die before he is raised, why do muslims still continue with the notion that Jesus did not die. is the person speaking above said to be lieing about the second point.

final word: the abve clearly teaches that Jesus will die before he will be raised. this only further points to the contradictions in the quran

basilico: Muhammad corrected the written corrupted scrolls by declaring that Jesus was not crucified, did not die but ascended to heaven. Remember the prophet met Jesus when he flew the mythical horse burraq to al aqsa and ascended to all the 7 heavens. Jesus wil come back to fight the dajjal, break the cross (maybe you now understand why muslims hate the cross)... then i think He wil die. then. I am sure muslims here wil explain better.

maclatunji:

I was born, I will die and I like anybody else will be raised like every other creature on the day of judgement. Does this make me divine? Of course not.

deSika: friend how do you explain this

Quran 19:33
peace on me the day [1] i was born, and [2] the day i die, and the day [3] i shall be raised alive.

he was supposed to die before being raised up. so why the shortcut. he jumped dieing and was now raised. something is not right, cant yu see it

deSika: chief, i wasnt asking about divinity. why did Jesus get raised before his death in contrast to what the verse prescribed

take note it says raised alive. which is what you people saay happened to Jesus but you say he didnt die. so hw did he get raised before dieing. abi does he not know what he is saying.

basilico: If Muhammad found Isa in heaven then he did not die and it means he was raised to the heavens without dying (It was made to appear that it was Jesus who was crucified argument!!).

As the muslims explain If Jesus is to come back to fight Dajjal and break the cross then it means Muhammad is not the last prophet!!

Muhammad made this up Its that simple and the Muslims do not want to see that.

maclatunji:

You are confused, basilico is a more knowledgeable non-Muslim and does not suffer from your confusion.

maclatunji:

You are confused, basilico is a more knowledgeable non-Muslim and does not suffer from your confusion.

maclatunji:

Your conclusion is faulty. Jesus' coming back has nothing to do with Prophethood. It is well documented that he will live as a Muslim. He will have no new revelations or new laws to give. These are primary duties of Prophets which he will not perform.

deSika: as expected. No explanations. Just ad hominen.

My question is simple. Why did Jesus not die before he was raised alive according to the verse above.

Its either the speaker in that verse does not know that he would die before being raised(and as such can be said to be false prophet) or he is correct about his death before being raised up alive and such nullify the non crucifixion claim of Muhammad.

deSika: chief, i wasnt asking about divinity. why did Jesus get raised before his death in contrast to what the verse prescribed

take note it says raised alive. which is what you people saay happened to Jesus but you say he didnt die. so hw did he get raised before dieing. abi does he not know what he is saying.

truthman2012:

These people are confused. Verse 34 of the quranic chapter you refer to says Jesus being born, dying and being raised is the truth they are doubting. If Allah had tried to clear their doubt and they are still doubting, it mean Allah himself cannot solve their problem.

basilico: Since we are all agreed that Isa is in heaven , how did he get there?
Should be we go by the biblical sources of crucifixion, resurrection and ascension?
Do the Muslims have any sources - hadeeth,sunna, quran, gospel of barrabas etc as to how Jesus (Isa) happened to have appeared in heaven?

maclatunji:

What makes you think the 'raising' in that verse has occured? You keep displaying your ignorance.

truthman2012:

These people are confused. Verse 34 of the quranic chapter you refer to says Jesus being born, dying and being raised is the truth they are doubting. If Allah had tried to clear their doubt and they are still doubting, it mean Allah himself cannot solve their problem.

deSika: so yu are now entering your your denial mode.

when muslims say Jesus was not crucified but was RAISED unto God alive. what type of "raising" is that?. do you have different types of "raising alive"

am waiting for your explanations, Mr. non ignorant. how many types of "raising alive" do you have

andromida: Maybe someone can help me with answers here- why did God, according to the Quran need to deceive people and change the face of the person on the cross to that of Jesus. What was the purpose behind that action?

RoyPCain: @desika: I am not going to go through the bits of posts above, but if your question is how was could Jesus be raised up without dieing, i will give you raising up without dying as evidence of possibility.

from your bible, Elijah was raised up to heavens. did he die? we know from the bible that he was raised up alive. God is able to accomplish all He wills. the jews were expecting Elijah who went up alive to return. why are they? maybe because they know no one will escape death since Moses who God spoke with didnt and their father who you said fought Yahweh and was victorious over Him and man didnt escape death. so the jews believed Elijah had to come back to die. Lets leave the disagreement of Jesus and John about who came back as or who was not Elijah. one thing we know is that no one will escape death.

Why you say that Jesus already died, you are saying even he would not have escaped death as your God/god, falling into human characteristics.

I agree with you that he is human. period. Well i disagree with you about his dying when you said he did. i say that he will return and he will die the very first time on earth in the return. then judgment day. Hence what you called his death 2,000 years ago, was no death.

My disagreement continues; when he dies in the future as i have said, above, he will be raised up as in resurrected like all of us for The Day of Judgment.


In conclusion his statement in the Quranic verse you started this thread with alluded to many things; His birth that had happened before the speech.

His death that will happen after the speech, after he was raised up alive with being death 2,000 years ago, after his future return to earth landing in a place already named in the city of Damascus. [size=13pt] There is a grave already dug for him in Madina which he [as] will buried inshaAllah, because Muhammad [sa] said so. Then he will be raised up finally from death. [/size]

maclatunji:

It is quite simple, Jesus (AS) was not crucified, was raised to the heavens, will be brought back, will die and then on then prior to judgement will be raised like everybody else.

So, what are you yapping about?

deSika:

the verse says Jesus life cycle would be

birth - death - raised up

but Maclatunji says Jesus life cycle would be

birth - raised up - come down - death - raised up


which one should i take. the quran or Maclantunji's verse

A.
the verse actually agrees that
1. someone was killed by crucifixion.
2. the person that was crucified looked like Jesus, for it claims it was made to appear unto them so

so lets do the analysis
islamic traditions give a pointer to the following facts
a. the jews had a grudge with Jesus and as such actually wanted to kill Jesus

i wud have seen good reasoning on their part if the quran had said that the jews and Jesus were best of pals and so there was no need or reason to kill him. then we would then be asking "how cud they just kill Jesus for NO JUST CAUSE"
But as it stands there was a need to kill him.

b. they actually killed someone that looked like Jesus and guess where on the cross ofcos. the question that arises from this is that who would look like Jesus apart from Jesus himself. the cross issue is already settled as we do not have any pointer to an alternative form of death that is in contention here apart from crucifixion. there is no mention of say the poeple trying to bomb the building in which Jesus was preaching

c. But the lie is that God changed the appearance of someone else to Jesus to protect Jesus. this is a lie because even if God wanted to protect Jesus he would have used some other more reasonable means as making Jesus inaccessible to his killers by escaping before his arrest or by becoming invisible or something else. besides God would nt want to protect Jesus from what was preplanned for him.

in summary, they claim that JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED BUT THE JESUS THAT WAS CRUCIFIED IS NOT THE REAL ONE.

B
if i ask a muslim this question. "supposing you where there when the jews killed someone that looked like Jesus.and you were asked "who is being killed". the obvious answer would be that the person being killed is Jesus. so now why would they think it an abomination when christians say Jesus was killed.

for more pls read
https://www.nairaland.com/1271315/dilema-muslims-crucifixion

maclatunji:

Simple, you expose your ignorance again. The same Qur'an which you seek to misinterpret says Jesus (AS) was not crucified. Then, it tells you, that every soul shall taste death.

So, are you believing in one part of the Qur'an and disbelieving the other?

You are like a little boy who seeks to show that he knows, when he knows not.

You must study the Qur'an with proper context. Going to antiIslamic websites will only compound your ignorance.

deSika:
you have proven yurself again. instead of addressing the issue at hand, you have gone 90 degrees off.

pls we are talking about what it means for some one to say
birth - death - raise up

and you now saying
birth - raised up - come down - die - raise up

the funny thing is that yoou call someone a misinterpreter yet you cant explain anything.

point of focus: the verse did not say after birth there will be rasing up then death then raising up. so i dont know what your point is




did you read my post above [5 posts above or so] where i discussed about the inefficiency of the "they killed him not" verse.

if the quran says the person that was killed/crucified loked like Jesus to his killers, who are you to say that those his killers should nt say that they killed a Jesus kind of person. who are you to deny the crucifixion self, when your quran still mentions quran.

final word: let me ask you the question i asked above. if you were there when the people were killing the person they took as Jesus and someone asked you who was just being killed what would you say.

sino: Erm desika, are you now applying the 'holy spirit' induced interpretation for the Quran?

Let me give you a small assignment, in the verse you quoted, the Arabic word used for raised up is what? Then check Quran 4 vs 158, and tell me the Arabic word used. Thanks in advance.