Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / NewStats: 3,194,827 members, 7,956,128 topics. Date: Monday, 23 September 2024 at 03:54 AM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit (29751 Views)
Is Jesus God? – Logical Questions That Need Answers / Is Jesus God? (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (48) (Reply) (Go Down)
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Nobody: 9:05pm On May 27, 2013 |
Daniel 7 : 13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. v13 totally destroys any error regarding the Trinity, here Jesus the Son of MAN is brought into the presence of the Everlasting Father, Ancient of Days, the one and only true GOD who know MAN can see. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Itsfacts: 9:05pm On May 27, 2013 |
ijawkid: Dude I have seen how you react to presented facts of citation to backup claims you just find and excuse question and ask. You know our discussion on my post and how you run away from it. Now they make Romans fit the trinity lol why didn't they put the word trinity in the bible then? As matter of fact it is the new world translation that tries to twist the bible to fit watchtower doctrine like benalvino earlier mentioned!!! |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 9:10pm On May 27, 2013 |
benalvino: Lol......let's look at romans 9:5 from fellow trinitarian versions so that you can rest a bit.....and take a look at the punctuations so that you can know and see that wayo was played by trinitarians to assume that Jesus was the God over all that was mentioned..... "Theirs the patriarchs, and from them, according to the flesh, is the Messiah. God who is over all be blessed forever. Amen." (NAB) "to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God who is over all be blessed for ever. Amen." (RSV). Romans 9:5 Good News Translation (GNT) 5 they are descended from the famous Hebrew ancestors; and Christ, as a human being, belongs to their race. May God, who rules over all, be praised forever! [a] Amen. Benalvino please kindly take a look at romans 9:5 from the goodnews translation....that is not the new world translation bro...and for the sake of this discuss I would never touch the NWT...we would do it here with other renditions by trinitarians...... The truth is even fellow trinitarians know that romans 9:5 has been rendered incorrectly and also the use of punctuations has been bastardized... Can you reconcile these words of paul found in other parts of the scriptures to the romans 9:5 you're hanging on??.... "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One." (Mark 14:61). "Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel." (Luke 1:68). "They changed the truth of God into a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator who is blessed to the ages. Amen." (Romans 1:25). "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Corinthians 1:3). "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." (Ephesians 1:3). Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 1:3). Paul would have to be a confused person to had penned down romans 9:5 to bless Jesus as GOd over all when in the rest of his letters he had always consistently blessed Yahweh the GOD and Father of the same Jesus we are discussing about..... You can't bring out a twisted verse that contradicts the bulk of scriptures to prove a point....... And may I inform you that the scriptures say it was through Jesus things created....Jesus himself had a beginning..Jesus' living is dependent of that of the Father who is the source of life...he was begotten...he is the image of GOD(which ofcourse would be contradictory if he is GOD)... 1 Like |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 9:13pm On May 27, 2013 |
Itsfacts: Ahhhh......I didn't run away from your post...all I saw on that post was one who didn't have all d facts but was running around nairaland trying to malign the JW's.... And have you carried out my assignement by giving me the exact hebrew renderings or spellings for JERUSALEM,ELIJAH,JEHOSHAPHAT etc??..... I hope you would be here on this trinity discuss till the end..... We haven't sEen you drop points on this thread.....you had better get involved or go open another JW hating thread........ |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Debroslink: 9:14pm On May 27, 2013 |
frosbel: The Lord God says "Look unto me and be saved oh Israel"... "and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced..." Zechariah 12: 10 My question to you is, who is this PIERCED Lord GOD? |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by benalvino(m): 9:21pm On May 27, 2013 |
frosbel: Daniel 7 : 13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. Now I know you really lacking.. Jesus was fully man do he died... How did he walk on water? He did when the spirit of God is in him... He totaly relied on his father because he took the cause which the bible describe as flesh what he wanted is to remove the cause from us that is why he came down to earth... The Jesus who created the heaven and earth was eternal he can never die till he took the curse which is the flesh... Rev 1:8 7Behold, he comes with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, said the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Cross reference Revelation 4:8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "'Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty,' who was, and is, and is to come." |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 9:30pm On May 27, 2013 |
Debroslink: Before I correct you with a better rendering of that verse let us intelligently analyze the rendition u quoted from...... Does it make an oita of sense if people are looking upon the pierced person ME,but mourning for someone else altogether,HIM??.... The later part of that verse says and they shall mourn as one mourns for a firstborn son... Is Yahweh the firstborn son??.....does the scripture not say that Jesus instead is the firstborn son of Yahweh??........ Now why don't we see this verse from another rendition... Zechariah 12:10 Good News Translation (GNT) 10 “I will fill the descendants of David and the other people of Jerusalem with the spirit of mercy and the spirit of prayer. They will look at the one whom they stabbed to death, and they will mourn for him like those who mourn for an only child. They will mourn bitterly, like those who have lost their first- born son. Can you see consistency in this rendition??....... 1 Like |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Debroslink: 9:31pm On May 27, 2013 |
frosbel: Daniel 7 : 13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.But Daniel 7:22 says "Until the Ancient of days came..." This means that an Ancient of days came to meet another Ancient of days sitting on the throne. Afterall, the Son of man came to the Ancient of days Daniel 7:13. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Nobody: 9:34pm On May 27, 2013 |
[quote author=benalvino] You cannot be fully MAN and fully GOD , You are either one or the other. How did he walk on water? He did when the spirit of God is in him... He totaly relied on his father because he took the cause which the bible describe as flesh what he wanted is to remove the cause from us that is why he came down to earth.. Everything Jesus did , he did not of himself but by the Power of GOD. "Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me," - John 10:25 "By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me." - John 5:30 The Jesus who created the heaven and earth The Ancient of Days created the Heaven and Earth. was eternal he can never die till he took the curse which is the flesh.. The curse he took was SIN , not the Flesh, get your facts right. Rev 1:8 7Behold, he comes with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, said the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. But you left out v6, which goes : "To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen." - v6 Then we move on to v.7 which talks about the coming of Jesus. Finally v8, is about GOD , not Jesus. You need to slow down and think before you jump to conclusions. Right from v1, a marked distinction is made between Jesus and his Father. "1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place." - v1. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by nlMediator: 9:36pm On May 27, 2013 |
frosbel: Daniel 7 : 13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. I thought you argued here only recently that Jesus did not exist until he appeared in the Gospels? That aside, so when Jesus existed in Daniels, He existed as a man? Pray, who gave birth to this man or can one exist as a man without human parents? And where did He live as a man in the Old Testament days- Israel, Babylon, Heaven? Straight answers would be appreciated. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Debroslink: 9:37pm On May 27, 2013 |
ijawkid: I base my quotation on the King James Version, not all these 20th century Bible versions. The scriptures simply said "they shall look upon ME whom they have pierced". My question still remains... who is this PIERCED Lord God? If God is Yahweh, and Jesus is God, then Jesus is Yahweh. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Nobody: 9:38pm On May 27, 2013 |
nlMediator: Daniel 7 was prophecy about the resurrection, ascension of Jesus and his presentation to the father , the Ancient of Days, where he now sits at the right hand till his enemies be made his footstool. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Nobody: 9:40pm On May 27, 2013 |
Debroslink: Prophecy about Jesus Christ. What do you guys not understand about Prophecy ? |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by benalvino(m): 9:40pm On May 27, 2013 |
ijawkid:I know you never understood that verse ok let me make another explanation for you. although the Bible documents that Mary became the mother of Jesus and clearly teaches that Jesus is God, it never states, or even implies, that Mary was (or is) the “Mother of God.” For a theological syllogism to explain correctly the relationship between Mary and God, it must be based on biblical truth. We can propose correctly that Jesus is God (1) God became flesh (John 1:1,14); (2) therefore, Mary is the mother of Jesus according to the flesh (Romans 9:5), i.e., Jesus’ physical body. Jesus as a man fully depend on his father and he had the holy spirit behind him... Also he has the curse which is the flesh so yes he was a man. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Nobody: 9:42pm On May 27, 2013 |
Debroslink: You are running deeper and deeper into confusion. So there are now 2 ancient of days , You must be catholic , Babylon and confusion etc. A Clear distinction has been made between the ancient of days and the Son of MAN, stop twisting scripture to mean what you want it to say. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Debroslink: 9:46pm On May 27, 2013 |
frosbel: Oh u mean God was prophesying about Jesus and he said "they will look upon ME whom they have pierced" This proves the fact that that God talking here was actually Jesus. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 9:46pm On May 27, 2013 |
Debroslink: Ok then let us read the apostles john quoting zechariah 12:10 so that you can abandon this zechariah 12:10 you are holding so dearly.... John 19:37 English Standard Version (©2001) And again another Scripture says, “They will look on him whom they have pierced.” New American Standard Bible (©1995) And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED." King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced. The KJV rendered it well this time...if you noticed when John was quoting from zechariah he did not quote it as ""they shall look upon me whom they have pierced" rather it he quotes and says ""they shall look on HIM whom they have pierced..... So my bro hope you can see that the scriptures cannot contradict itself......... Yahweh is not Jesus and Jesus is not Yahweh.....stop this blasphemy......... Yahweh is the Father and God of Jesus....... 1 Like |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Debroslink: 9:48pm On May 27, 2013 |
frosbel: Actually there are three Ancient of days because they were not created, and you know them. Don't u? |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Itsfacts: 9:49pm On May 27, 2013 |
ijawkid: So what you are saying is Jesus is their first born? Or it is a description of how they show mourn• I don't understand how you guys understand stuff. If I say he she talks like a man doesn't mean she is a man am describing simple. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 9:51pm On May 27, 2013 |
benalvino: I know you never understood that verse ok let me make another explanation for you. And like you said was fully God and fully man.......all in one Jesus....so how is it that mary isn't the mother of GOD??....stop running around my brother.......it is either you believe Jesus was not God when on earth and we move on to other arguments or you stick to the believe that Jesus was God in flesh and then we keep arguing this issue until you either join the catholics in hail mary or you come to an agreement that mary is the mother of God..... And I haven't heard you quary the trinitarian translations I quoted to divide romans 9:5 and also corroborating scriptures........ |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 9:53pm On May 27, 2013 |
Itsfacts: And firstborn mentioned in that scripture does not strike a cord in your brain that it all links to Jesus??........... Or you want to argue that Jesus isn't Gods first born??...... My brother you have no argument...... Kindly read john 19:37..... |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Debroslink: 9:54pm On May 27, 2013 |
ijawkid: I believe you know English very well. John was simply reporting what he read in the Scriptures. Do u expect him to use "ME" instead of "HIM" that is Jesus. God said "they shall look upon ME whom they have pierced. Pls, stop quoting all these 20th century versions. They are contaminated. Any bible versions that can't quote 1John 5:7 in full, is from the pit of hell. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Itsfacts: 9:56pm On May 27, 2013 |
@frosbel you sounding ignorant sometimes. You quote alvino as blasphemy he presented a verse and you didn't say anything. The koko is Jesus was even prayed to. That glory God said he will never share with anyone! Jesus had it. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Nobody: 9:56pm On May 27, 2013 |
Debroslink: LOL. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Nobody: 10:00pm On May 27, 2013 |
Itsfacts: @frosbel you sounding ignorant sometimes. You quote alvino as blasphemy he presented a verse and you didn't say anything. The koko is Jesus was even prayed to. That glory God said he will never share with anyone! Jesus had it. Show me where Jesus was prayed to, even Jesus told SATAN that we should worship GOD only and him only should we server. "replied, "The Scriptures say, 'You must worship the LORD your God and serve only him.'" - Luke 4:8 This is further buttressed by Revelation 1v1 which goes : "1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place." - Revelation 1v1. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Debroslink: 10:00pm On May 27, 2013 |
frosbel: If u believe Jesus was created, then I doubt your Christianity. Why then do u worship Jesus? Why are all powers, angels and principalities worshipping Him. I thought God is the Only one we should worship, and He said He won't share His glory. Why is Jesus sharing His glory if He was created. The fact is... Jesus is God. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by truthislight: 10:02pm On May 27, 2013 |
benalvino: If Adam were to be alive today, if he had not sin, he would have been our father Eternally. No? Jesus took over from him when he bought us with his blood >>> the ransom and became our father. No ? That is how Jesus became our "eternal father" > futuristic. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Itsfacts: 10:03pm On May 27, 2013 |
ijawkid: Then am asking you is Jesus their first born? How do you know if some of them have children? And how do you link that statement to firstborn in terms of first born of all creation. The bible say they meaning the people and it didn't say Yahweh. You just they do olivertwist here. I go call you dbanj |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by ijawkid(m): 10:04pm On May 27, 2013 |
Debroslink: John was quoting word for word from zephaniah........... John said and again another scripture says ....... It seems you need googles to really see that John was quoting from zechariah.... Or do you want us to apply your reasoning to the earlier quoted prophecy from psalm 34:20 that john also in john 19:36?? |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Nobody: 10:04pm On May 27, 2013 |
Debroslink: At the command of GOD : "When God was about to send his firstborn Son into the world, he said, "All of God's angels must worship him."" - Hebrews 1:6 |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Nobody: 10:05pm On May 27, 2013 |
Debroslink: The fact is Jesus is not GOD Almighty. |
Re: Trinity: Why Is It Easier To Call Jesus God And Not The Holy Spirit by Debroslink: 10:05pm On May 27, 2013 |
frosbel: That Satan had the audacity to tempt Him shows His low estate. What do u expect Jesus to say? "You must worship me and me alone cos I'm God"? That's pride. He was humble, and directed all glory to God. Mind u, Jesus didn't say "worship the Father". He said "worship God", and dat includes the Holy Spirit. |
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (48) (Reply)
Help! I Always Dream Of Snakes! / The Word For Today: A Daily Devotional / The Lord’s Chosen Auditorium Collapses In Asaba (Photos)
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 121 |