@Davidylan: And so were Mark, Luke, Matthew, etc of the four canonized Gospels. No wonder they were single named writers and always according to, without clarity. But the big daddy of them is Paul, who was not an " apostle," of Jesus, yet you struggle hard to make him one!

When do you stop bending the rule and don't make a rectangular juice box leave a ring stain on the piano. Be honest David.

@4 Him
Even though the Gospel of barnabas has some verse that do not have the same concept with the Qu'ran, we can't deny that it is far more authetic to the bible we have now for the following reasons:

1. It belives there is only one God, and shows many instances where Jesus rebuked those who called him God.
2. The author was a direct disciple to Jesus unlike Paul who wasn't.
3. The book denies Christ dying on the cross which is very different from the "paganic" believe that he died for anyone's sin.
4. The book agreed with what the Qu'ran in many instances.

Contradictory Terms.
Firstly, I don't know why you're so willing to show the book's "insignificant" disagreement with the Ko'ran. I use the word insignificant because the author only wrote the things he saw and heard. While the Ko'ran is definately all true because God was the speaker all through.

For example, Mary mother of Jesus according to the Ko'ran bore Jesus in pain, the Gospel of Barnabas says painlessly. What you don't want to understand is the painlessness Barnabas stated may be the generally accepted belief since there was no more there except Mary and God who was a witness himself.

Let me say that in your Bible, it states that Zarkariah was deaf and dumb for three days because of the sign God promised concerning John. The Ko'ran that we believe is God talking in the first person says God commanded him not to speak(that is he must refrain himself from talking) for three days except with a sign(just a sign to test his patience); therefore he was not no deaf nor dumb but the recorders of the bibe felt so.

Finally, Davidlyan, differences or no differences. I must say that the differences does not contradict the most important beliefs like who God is, or Christ, or the prophets- that can result to one being a disbeliever. If your bible only differed in the context that shows the limitations of we humans in understanding the Divine, then no one will cry out that it isn't the true bible.
Or what has Mary's pain or no pain has to do with worship.

olabowale:

@Davidylan: And so were Mark, Luke, Matthew, etc of the four canonized Gospels. No wonder they were single named writers and always according to, without clarity. But the big daddy of them is Paul, who was not an " apostle," of Jesus, yet you struggle hard to make him one!

When do you stop bending the rule and don't make a rectangular juice box leave a ring stain on the piano. Be honest David.

It seems the problem with most mus'lims is a lack of understanding of the things they yell so loudly about.
There is a difference between an "apostle" and a "disciple". Paul was an apostle but not a disciple.

Matthew and John were disciples, Luke and Mark were not.

Frizy:

@4 Him
Even though the Gospel of barnabas has some verse that do not have the same concept with the Qu'ran, we can't deny that it is far more authetic to the bible we have now for the following reasons:

This is an is'lamic opinion that is not even shared by atheists who can see beyond their noses to know that Spanish and Italian were not 1st century languages.

Frizy:

1. It belives there is only one God, and shows many instances where Jesus rebuked those who called him God.

All the other 4 canonical gospels believe there is only ONE God too.

Frizy:

2. The author was a direct disciple to Jesus unlike Paul who wasn't.

Barnabas was never one of the 12 disciples. Even after Judas Iscariot killed himself his place was taken by Matthias. It is plainly stupid errors like this that expose the true decietful nature of the mus'lim.

Frizy:

3. The book denies Christ dying on the cross which is very different from the "paganic" believe that he died for anyone's sin.

that is even more evidence to support the fact that this book is a forgery meant to DENY the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Frizy:

4. The book agreed with what the Qu'ran in many instances.

Which is the ONLY reason why you gullible hypocrites call it the only authentic gospel.

Frizy:

Contradictory Terms.
Firstly, I don't know why you're so willing to show the book's "insignificant" disagreement with the Ko'ran. I use the word insignificant because the author only wrote the things he saw and heard. While the Ko'ran is definately all true because God was the speaker all through.

The Qu'ran called Jesus the Christ, the gospel of Barnabas says Jesus specifically DENIED this BUT still referred to Jesus as the Messiah.
Considering the FACT that the REAL Barnabas was a JEW born in Cyprus (he understood greek and hebrew), it is SCANDALOUS that such a man would make that basic mistake since Christos is merely the greek form of the hebrew word "Messiah".

That is NOT an insignificant error.

Frizy:

For example, Mary mother of Jesus according to the Ko'ran bore Jesus in pain, the Gospel of Barnabas says painlessly. What you don't want to understand is the painlessness Barnabas stated may be the generally accepted belief since there was no more there except Mary and God who was a witness himself.

That is what we call lying.

Frizy:

Let me say that in your Bible, it states that Zarkariah was deaf and dumb for three days because of the sign God promised concerning John. The Ko'ran that we believe is God talking in the first person says God commanded him not to speak(this he could but must refrain himself) for three days except with a sign(just a sign to test his patience); therefore he was not no deaf nor dumb but the recorders of the bibe felt so.

Those who wrote the bible PERSONALLY knew this Zechariah, the author of the qu'ran didnt appear until more than 500 yrs after this Zechariah was dead, i know who's account i want to believe.

Frizy:

Finally, Davidlyan, differences or no differences. I must say that the differences does not contradict the most important beliefs like who God is, or Christ, or the prophets- that can result to one from been a disbeliever. If your bible only differed in the context that shows the limitations of we humans in understanding the Divine, then no one will cry out that it isn't the true bible.
Or what has Mary's pain or no pain has to do with worship.

balderdash, uncle.
When the author of the "gospel of barnabas" makes basic errors like saying Jesus went up to Nazareth by boat (nazareth is landlocked) then you start having mixed feelings about this "jew" who didnt even know the geography of his nation.

4 Him:

This is an is'lamic opinion that is not even shared by atheists who can see beyond their noses to know that Spanish and Italian were not 1st century languages.

Why compare Mus'lims with atheists, do they have anything in common?

All the other 4 canonical gospels believe there is only ONE God too.

I strongly disagree, your bible clearly states there are three gods in one. Father,son and Holy Spirit.

Barnabas was never one of the 12 disciples. Even after Judas Iscariot killed himself his place was taken by Matthias. It is plainly stupid errors like this that expose the true decietful nature of the mus'lim.

Now who is decietful and hiding the truth?
Check Epistle to Colossians Chapter 4, Verse 10.
Galatians Chapter 2, verse 9.
Acts 4:36
Acts 9:26,27
Acts11:22-30
Acts 12:25; Acts 13:1-2

Which is the ONLY reason why you gullible hypocrites call it the only authentic gospel.

Well the contents therein aren't as gullible as to those of your bible. Only that you don't know.

That is what we call lying.

Well, david, sorry to say but research has shown that at least in every two chapters in your bible there are significantly a number of lies.

Those who wrote the bible PERSONALLY knew this Zechariah, the author of the qu'ran didnt appear until more than 500 years after this Zechariah was dead, i know who's account i want to believe.

Who is the author of the Ko'ran? Is it God you talk of this way?

Chapter 17 In this chapter is clearly perceived the unbelief of Christians, and the true faith of Mumin.

When Jesus had said this, Philip answered: 'We are content to serve God, but we desire, however, to know God, for Isaiah the prophet said: "Verily thou art a hidden God," and God said to Moses his servant: "I am that which I am."
Jesus answered: 'Philip, God is a good without which there is naught good; God is a being without which there is naught that is; God is a life without which there is naught that liveth; so great that he filleth all and is everywhere. He alone hath no equal. He hath had no beginning, nor will he ever have an end, but to everything hath he given a beginning, and to everything shall he give an end. He hath no father nor mother; he hath no sons. nor brethren. nor companions. And because God hath no body, therefore he eateth not, sleepeth not, dieth not, walketh not, moveth not, but abideth eternally without human similitude, for that he is incorporeal, uncompounded, immaterial, of the most simple substance. He is so good that he loveth goodness only; he is so just that when he punisheth or pardoneth it cannot be gainsaid. In short, I say unto thee, Philip, that here on earth thou canst not see him nor know him perfectly; but in his kingdom thou shalt see him for ever: wherein consisteth all our happiness and glory.'
Philip answered: 'Master, what sayest thou? It is surely written in Isaiah that God is our father; how, then, hath he no sons?'
Jesus answered: 'There are written in the prophets many parables, wherefore thou oughtest not to attend to the letter, but to the sense. For all the prophets, that are one hundred and forty-four thousand, whom God hath sent into the world, have spoken darkly. But after me shall come the Splendour of all the prophets and holy ones, and shall shed light upon the darkness of all that the prophets have said, because he is the messenger of God' And having said this, Jesus sighed and said: 'Have mercy on Israel, O Lord God; and look with pity upon Abraham and upon his seed, in order that they may serve thee with truth of heart.
His disciples answered: 'So be it, O Lord our God!'
Jesus said: 'Verily I say unto you, the scribes and doctors have made void the law of God with their false prophecies, contrary to the prophecies of the true prophets of God: wherefore God is wrath with the house of Israel and with this faithless generation.' His disciples wept at these words, and said: 'Have mercy, O God, have mercy upon the temple and upon the holy city, and give it not into contempt of the nations that they despise not thy holy covenant.' Jesus answered: 'So be it, Lord God of our fathers.'

Frizy:

Why compare Mus'lims with atheists, do they have anything in common?

They have one thing in common, both DENY the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Frizy:

I strongly disagree, your bible clearly states there are three gods in one. Father,son and Holy Spirit.

You cant be more conversant of the bible than me, the bible explicitly declares 1 God in 3 different manifestations. That you dont understand it shld not be reason to try to force your own dishonesty into the scriptures.

Frizy:

Now who is decietful and hiding the truth?
Check Epistle to Colossians Chapter 4, Verse 10.
Galatians Chapter 2, verse 9.
Acts 4:36
Acts 9:26,27
Acts11:22-30
Acts 12:25; Acts 13:1-2

To save time and space i wont put those quotes here, but WHERE is Barnabas referred to as a direct disciple of Christ?
Even a 5yr old can confidently tell you the 12 disciples of Christ, Barnabas is not one of them.
Why is the truth such a fishbone in the neck of a mus'lim?

Frizy:

Well the contents therein aren't as gullible as to those of your bible. Only that you don't know.

simply because it says what YOU want to read.

Frizy:

Well, david, sorry to say but research has shown that at least in every two chapters in your bible there are significantly a number of lies.

Research has also shown that there are SIGNIFICANT errors of language, geography and anachronistic details in the gospel of barnabas to consign it to the dustbin of forgery.

Frizy:

Who is the author of the Ko'ran? Is it God you talk of this way?

More emotive nonsense.

@Davidylan: If all that the m/us.lim have in common with the Atheist is the denial of your human god, Jesus, then am very happy. Soon the atheist may take the step to become m.u.s.lim, considering he does not recognize the prophethood of M.u.h.ammad and Q.u.r'a.n, etc. In truth the christians have so much more in common with Atheist, when it concerns i.s.l.am. Afterall, they deny everything about the religion, the same way that the christians do.

The mere fact that you understand the bible does not mean that you are correct, specifically because your information source is wrong about god, all along.

Is it not true that a 5 year od child will be able to tell that Paul was not one of the apostles? Yet you call him apostle. Which number was he in the 12? And were the gospel wrters, mark, luke , John, matthew apostles of jesus? You are batting 0 for 5 already, yet what happened to the gospels of the primary apostles of jesus and his own gospel, which he preached about the places?

David and just because you disagree with something, based on your knowledge does not mean that the thing may not be right. Afterall you have limited knowledge and you can go beyond what you know. But you are being told here and now that God is One Entity, without any Divisibility to Him. He can handle all affairs in that state of Oneness. Your divisibility resulting to multiple heads personality entity is ridiculous. But of course you can't see it so. you have to justify a wild orchard idea of God, being all over the place in multitude to get noticed. Very wrong idea.

And your only premise of disagreement with Barnabas is the that he dislodged the humangod understanding that you have for Jesus, since you already accepted it from Paul. Remember there is no verse that points to jesus, by Jesus that he is anything other than a loving servant/slave prophet messenger of his Lord God. he even referred to himself as son of Man, (That itself is a clear proof), prophet and messenger and messiah to the house of Israel

For sure the truth is pure and simple. There is no multiple ways to express the truth. It is direct and straigh and one pure way. This is opposite of false, which can be explained with satisfaction in uncountable way. Each time the story changes.

olabowale:

Is it not true that a 5 year od child will be able to tell that Paul was not one of the apostles? Yet you call him apostle. Which number was he in the 12? And were the gospel wrters, mark, luke , John, matthew apostles of jesus?

Pardon me, but sir you lack wisdom.
Maybe i should make it bold enough for you to read - THERE IS A VERY CLEAR DIFFERENCE IN THE BIBLE BETWEEN DISCIPLES AND APOSTLES.
Paul (ditto for Barnabas) was never one of the 12 disciples BUT he was an apostles - one sent to preach the gospel or as a delegate. Which is very different from disciple - a follower.

All the gospel writers were apostles but not all were Christ's physical disciples.

olabowale:

You are batting 0 for 5 already, yet what happened to the gospels of the primary apostles of jesus and his own gospel, which he preached about the places?

the gospel Christ preached is right there in the bible.

olabowale:

But you are being told here and now that God is One Entity, without any Divisibility to Him. He can handle all affairs in that state of Oneness. Your divisibility resulting to multiple heads personality entity is ridiculous.

I think we have belaboured this issue because you're trying to force the idea that we believe in the same God. No we dont.
My God i know, who is yours?
You can choose whatever description you want for how ur god acts, i choose to follow the bible to understand mine.
End of argument.

olabowale:

And your only premise of disagreement with Barnabas is the that he dislodged the humangod understanding that you have for Jesus, since you already accepted it from Paul.

you goofed. i have no disagreement with Barnabas, i only have a disagreement with those who dishonestly wish to use his name to launder their fraud of a religion using a forged manuscript.

olabowale:

Remember there is no verse that points to jesus, by Jesus that he is anything other than a loving servant/slave prophet messenger of his Lord God. he even referred to himself as son of Man, (That itself is a clear proof), prophet and messenger and messiah to the house of Israel

Do you even understand what Messiah means?
The gospel of Barnabas CATEGORICALLY indicates that Jesus denied being the Messiah, does that not contradict you and the qu'ran here?

olabowale:

For sure the truth is pure and simple. There is no multiple ways to express the truth. It is direct and straigh and one pure way. This is opposite of false, which can be explained with satisfaction in uncountable way. Each time the story changes.

You talk about truth YET you cling tenaciously to the false. What a sad commentary on is'lam.

2. The author was a direct disciple to Jesus unlike Paul who wasn't

Barnabas was never a "direct" disciple of Christ.

If you guys are going to dismiss Paul then you must also dismiss Barnabas.

Funny thing is the answers that you guys give in one question contradicts the answer that you give in another. Your memory needs to get better. Stop picking and choosing that which makes your argument look good. Because you become caught in a web of lies.


Olabowale be careful that you don't contradict yourself as you have done many times on this board and in conversation with me. I take notice of them and will bring them to your notice soon.
Don't let your answers contradict each other.

Let me say that in your Bible, it states that Zarkariah was deaf and dumb for three days because of the sign God promised concerning John. The Ko'ran that we believe is God talking in the first person says God commanded him not to speak(that is he must refrain himself from talking) for three days except with a sign(just a sign to test his patience); therefore he was not no deaf nor dumb but the recorders of the bibe felt so.

And I am still waiting for proof that the Qu'ran is the Word of God, other than Muhaaamad said so and it is said in the Qu'ran. SHow me the proof, because all you say from the Qu'ran in baseless.

@Lady

And I am still waiting for proof that the Qu'ran is the Word of God, other than Muhaaamad said so and it is said in the Qu'ran. SHow me the proof, because all you say from the Qu'ran in baseless.

Can you please serve your reason for saying that Quran is not the word of God but my prophet?

~Lady~:

And I am still waiting for proof that the Qu'ran is the Word of God, other than Muhaaamad said so and it is said in the Qu'ran. SHow me the proof, because all you say from the Qu'ran in baseless.

You see, all the evidences in the creation of night and day, and the flawless words in that Ko'ran shows it is Gods'. To disbelieve in it there is an awful penalty!
Of course, what more can I say. God Himself said that if Mu'hammed were to bring all signs by God's leave, those whose path is to err, will not believe. So therefore, you are not forced to believe because your are yourself. And whatever you do with your soul, will be accounted. You deny now, but in the end those who disbelieve in it will find none to blame but themselves.

Majority of you think Alla'h's threat is untrue. But have you not heard of the disgraceful torments the people who disbelieve face on earth, even before the Judgement. Hurricanes are examples. They worshipped Jesus or idols, now tell me: "Why didn't Jesus save them?"

Frizy:

You see, all the evidences in the creation of night and day, and the flawless words in that Ko'ran shows it is Gods'.

Mus'lims seem to be detached from reality. Does the qu'ranic sun still set in a muddy spring?

Frizy:

To disbelieve in it there is an awful penalty!

To disbelieve in it is to extricate yourself from the powerful grip of the devil.

Frizy:

Majority of you think Alla'h's threat is untrue. But have you not heard of the disgraceful torments the people who disbelieve face on earth, even before the Judgement. Hurricanes are examples. They worshipped Jesus or idols, now tell me: "Why didn't Jesus save them?"

oh pls, when are you people going to regale us with all'ah's promises, love, mercy, grace? Everything is all about his threats!!

Can you please serve your reason for saying that The Great Book is not the word of God but my prophet?

I read it.

You see, all the evidences in the creation of night and day, and the flawless words in that Ko'ran shows it is Gods'. To disbelieve in it there is an awful penalty

You're speaking to someone who read it. Thread softly dear.

Ask Olabowale what my answer to him was when I read the first words.

Of course, what more can I say. God Himself said that if Mu'hammed were to bring all signs by God's leave, those whose path is to err, will not believe. So therefore, you are not forced to believe because your are yourself. And whatever you do with your soul, will be accounted

Funny we keep telling you guys the same thing.
Seems like Muhaaamad copied and pasted.

Majority of you think Alla'h's threat is untrue. But have you not heard of the disgraceful torments the people who disbelieve face on earth, even before the Judgement. Hurricanes are examples. They worshipped Jesus or idols, now tell me: "Why didn't Jesus save them?"

Spoken like a true Roman and Jew.

When will you understand that salvation is not of this earth. God's Kingdom is not of this earth.

@Davidylan:

Pardon me, but sir you lack wisdom.
Maybe i should make it bold enough for you to read - THERE IS A VERY CLEAR DIFFERENCE IN THE BIBLE BETWEEN DISCIPLES AND APOSTLES.
Paul (ditto for Barnabas) was never one of the 12 disciples BUT he was an apostles - one sent to preach the gospel or as a delegate. Which is very different from disciple - a follower.

All the gospel writers were apostles but not all were Christ's physical disciples.

But Paul preached a different message from what your lord, master Jesus preached about God and himself. Thats the point. It is obvious that desciple of Jesus will be apostles and there is no doubt that each had more one on one know how more than Paul. If any of them were to disagree, as they did with what Paul preached, then the preaching had been "incorrect!" You will have to agree that if all that Jesus said was written down accurately, there would not be any reason for the four gospels. Unfortunately Paul and company put their bits in the Bible, since according to what you said, they were apostles who were send to preach. If what they preached were put in the Bible, as they are in the Bible, you will not sincerely with straight face say thats "100% words of God?"

And we see very clearly that what Jesus might have said, if not exact words, but in ideas could never be different from what all other prophets before him. There is no way that the God that created Adam and then his mate, Eve is 3 personality godhead. (Am always fighting within me to be mild in my words about this). David you have a problem and its a DOUZIE.

the gospel Christ preached is right there in the bible.

Do you sincerely know them? Do you, word for word, in his own words, alone?

I think we have belaboured this issue because you're trying to force the idea that we believe in the same God. No we don't.
My God i know, who is yours?
You can choose whatever description you want for how your god acts, i choose to follow the bible to understand mine.
End of argument.

I know that my God is not a man, was not killed, Invisible, Most powerful, Most beneficient, Most Merciful and not multipersonality entity!

you goofed. i have no disagreement with Barnabas, i only have a disagreement with those who dishonestly wish to use his name to launder their fraud of a religion using a forged manuscript.

I am sure that Barnabas know more about Jesus than you ever could. I will take his opinion over yours any day, if I did not already know everything needed to know from AlQ.u.r'an.

Do you even understand what Messiah means?
The gospel of Barnabas CATEGORICALLY indicates that Jesus denied being the Messiah, does that not contradict you and the qu'ran here?

I know what messiah means. And Jesus is a messiah to his people alone. And not the world over. And what you fail to see is that there is no m.u.s.lim who says that he takes any statement over the Q.u.r'an.

You talk about truth YET you cling tenaciously to the false. What a sad commentary on is'lam.

What is wrong with you is exactly what is wrong with the Jews: You never take the step essential to accept the prophet of your time.






@~Lady~: [Quote] Barnabas was never a "direct" disciple of Christ.

If you guys are going to dismiss Paul then you must also dismiss Barnabas.

Funny thing is the answers that you guys give in one question contradicts the answer that you give in another. Your memory needs to get better. Stop picking and choosing that which makes your argument look good. Because you become caught in a web of lies.[/quote] I dis miss both of them, since we do not particularly take the position that Barnabas is 100% correct. I read the Bible before, as I have told you. I am very satisfied with the Q.u.r'a.n. My duty is to be sincere about the ministries of each prophets/messengers about their God. None of them had the write or mandate to say anything other than the fact that he was a bearer of the commandment that God is One and he only should be worshipped and depended upon.

Olabowale be careful that you don't contradict yourself as you have done many times on this board and in conversation with me. I take notice of them and will bring them to your notice soon.
Don't let your answers contradict each other.

I am a human being. Am not the knower of all things, God. When I contradict myself, let me know. Take advantage of my humanness. But remember God Almighty, always.

And I am still waiting for proof that the Qu'ran is the Word of God, other than Muhaaamad said so and it is said in the Qu'ran. SHow me the proof, because all you say from the Qu'ran in baseless. [/quoyte] What proof do you need? If a man wrote the Q.ur.'an, it would be hard pressed not to take the accalade of what that master piece provides. Look at the Bible, every book had the name of the supposed writer. Even the scribes had his own name in there. Remember the "Gospels according to, mark, matthew, John, Luke?" Even Paul and company and all the apostleshad the names of the apostles in there. Please use this alone and other reasons that you should know that Q.u.r'a.n is the true words of God to make up your mind. We all have a long way to go. We are still alive and thats a reason for uptimism.





[Quote]And I am still waiting for proof that the Qu'ran is the Word of God, other than Muhaaamad said so and it is said in the Qu'ran. SHow me the proof, because all you say from the Qu'ran in baseless.

Whats baseles about there is Only One God, worship Him? Whats baseless about all prophets/messengers were humans and nothing more, since they delivered God commandments to humans? Whats baseless about there is paradise and hellfire as rewards for obedience and disobedience to Gods commandments respectively?






@Davidylan:

Mus'lims seem to be detached from reality. Does the qu'ranic sun still set in a muddy spring?

Where is the detachment; Is there any other Creator than God? And at sunset doesn't the clearest and bluest of water look muddy in the sense that it become dark? Have you ever been to the bank or shore of a large body of water during sunset and see the truth that is a misery to you? Go to any of the many lakes; Lake Erie or the Niagara falls which is next door to you. Or travel to any beach in the Northeast. You will see. Seeing is believing. My concern is this you belief what is unbelieveable, but what you can see with your own eyes and you can wrap your thinking around it, you will not believe? Aa re, Dafidi?

To disbelieve in it is to extricate yourself from the powerful grip of the devil.

And in the Qu.r.'a.n, we are commanded to see safety inGod against the Shaitan, Satan, Devil, when we begin to read the Q.u.r'a.n. Is there a better proof that we are getting away from the grip of the devil? (Today na today, taking a quote from Nwando)!

oh please, when are you people going to regale us with all'ah's promises, love, mercy, grace? Everything is all about his threats!!

A man who is warned and take no notice has himself to blame. That is when the consequences of not heeding the warnings. The reward of obedience is mercy, forgiveness of minor sins, if one avoids the major sins. One of the major sins is the 3 in 1 concept, because God categorically declares that He is not Jesus, nor holyghost or father god. Open your eyes and read the Q.u.r.'an. It abounds in Mercy. The first shown is the God forgave Adam and his wife. We do not have the original sin, a greater show of Mercy by God in I.s.lam.






@~Lady~:

You're speaking to someone who read it. Thread softly dear.

Ask Olabowale what my answer to him was when I read the first words.

Reading sometime maybe accompanied with lack of understanding or misunderstanding, based on many factors. The biggest is refusal to divest oneself from already held ideas. When you read Suratul Fatiha, you did not see a clear sign that it was not God that is talking and that it is M.u.h.a.mmad was the speaker.What you did not see based on your religiousity is that it was not clear to you that it is God that is the Speaker, because that chapter does not start with "God said," based on your Biblical expectation. Q.u.r.'an is not the Bible.

Funny we keep telling you guys the same thing.
Seems like Muhaaamad copied and pasted.

I am laughing because I am thinking which part of the bible is that? And then, what was copied and pasted are better in substance and journalistically than the original? This is interesting. Yet he did not take credit for it. Very interesting? I hope those egostical powerful people follow his lead.

Spoken like a true Roman and Jew.

But the jews never even believe up to this present day that jesus is even a prophet. The Romans killed him. Neither position would a mu.s.l.im take. If a m.u.s.l.im takes either position, he is out of I.s.lam. So your argument is baseless. You are passing apple up as orange here.

When will you understand that salvation is not of this earth. God's Kingdom is not of this earth.

Is it that your cumulative earthly work and blind faith in christianity that provides salvation? I used the blind faith because there is no rational for blind belief. But the Creator of this earth is the creator of the heavens. All of these places are his kingdom. He is the Owner. Or is there another owner? But the lord's prayer has a statement about 'thy kingdom comes' and 'on earth as in heaven!' Aren't you now presenting direct clear and present confusion from th Bible about what is written and what the Christians do? Well we will have a good conversation about this and others.[/quote]

olabowale:

@Davidylan: But Paul preached a different message from what your lord, master Jesus preached about God and himself. Thats the point.

I doubt if u've ever read the bible. No christian has ever come to this ridiculous conclusion.

olabowale:

Unfortunately Paul and company put their bits in the Bible, since according to what you said, they were apostles who were send to preach.

unfortunately this is your own opinion.

olabowale:

And we see very clearly that what Jesus might have said, if not exact words, but in ideas could never be different from what all other prophets before him. There is no way that the God that created Adam and then his mate, Eve is 3 personality godhead. (Am always fighting within me to be mild in my words about this). David you have a problem and its a DOUZIE.

Alhaji, why MUST you fight this? Keep your god and i'll keep mine . . . 32 or 67 of them.

olabowale:

I am sure that Barnabas know more about Jesus than you ever could. I will take his opinion over yours any day, if I did not already know everything needed to know from AlQ.u.r'an.

The problem is you dont have any words of barnabas to read from. What you have is a 14th century forgery.

olabowale:

What is wrong with you is exactly what is wrong with the Jews: You never take the step essential to accept the prophet of your time.

and threatening to kill us is the right way to make us accept this fraud called a prophet?
WHY MUST WE ACCEPT HIM?

I give up arguing with these blind bats.

@Davidylan: I hope you will use the same brush to paint everytime.

The problem is you don't have any words of barnabas to read from. What you have is a 14th century forgery.

Apply that to your Bible since you did not have 100% words of Jesus, a Prophet. What you have which can not be trusted are words primarily coming from paul and company. (It sounds like coutts and company of England).

and threatening to kill us is the right way to make us accept this fraud called a prophet?
WHY MUST WE ACCEPT HIM?[/quote Your definition of fraud is any one who provides proof of your accepted fallacy. And no one is forcing you to accept anything. Your own refusal will witness against you at the appointed time.

I give up arguing with these blind bats.

And bats as designed by God is provided with sonar to navigate, even in the dark. So there is no argument.

olabowale:

@Davidylan: I hope you will use the same brush to paint everytime.
Apply that to your Bible since you did not have 100% words of Jesus, a Prophet. What you have which can not be trusted are words primarily coming from paul and company. (It sounds like coutts and company of England).

Why is the bible seriously haunting you people? The truth cannot be hidden eh.

@Davidylan: You know me enough by now that few things bother me. And the Bible is probably the last of them. Just to let you know, there is still a christian woman in my future. Hopefully, she will see the goodness of I.s.l.a.m in me and before she dies make the right decision.

@Davidylan: You know me enough by now that few things bother me. And the Bible is probably the last of them. Just to let you know, there is still a christian woman in my future. Hopefully, she will see the goodness of I.s.l.a.m in me and before she dies make the right decision.

LOL, i'M SURE SHE ALREADY DID AND FOUND IT IN CHRISTIANITY.

From what she gets from you she only sees dodging of the question. Answer the questions man.

But Paul preached a different message from what your lord, master Jesus preached about God and himself. Thats the point

It is different because that is what the Qu'ran tells you, prove the Qu'ran.

Why was the covenant made with the Arabs but carried out by Jewish Prophets?

If any of them were to disagree, as they did with what Paul preached, then the preaching had been "incorrect!"

Show us where they disagreed

If what they preached were put in the Bible, as they are in the Bible, you will not sincerely with straight face say thats "100% words of God?"

So how did the Qu'ran be 100% word of God? Because Muhaamad said so? Did God write it down? Who's to say that Muhaaamad didnt add his own bits and pieces, infact who's to say that he didn't just come up with it himself.

Now let me explain to you how it works in the Bible.

Inspired men were moved by the Spirit of God to write the books that make up the Bible. It is God's word because having beeen written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the books have God as the author.

Maybe that was too hard for Muhaaamad to comprehend. That God could actually use men as instruments to do his work.

There is no way that the God that created Adam and then his mate, Eve is 3 personality godhead

Why? Because human logic cannot explain it?

I thought God was capable of anything. If you say no, you're limiting his abilities.

Do you sincerely know them? Do you, word for word, in his own words, alone?

Yes it's in the Bible, go and read it.

I know that my God is not a man, was not killed, Invisible, Most powerful, Most beneficient, Most Merciful and not multipersonality entity!

then you don't believe in My God. My God is Almighty, and capable of everything including walking the earth that he created, whispering to us through the wind, reaching out to us through everyday people, sacrificing himself so that we may be free (as a real parent would, but then again you don't believe you are a child of God).
Sir you limit your god because your god cannot have children, if so then he had intercourse with a woman. Your god cannot form himself as a man, so what can your god do.

Those who worshipped idols believed that their god were merciful, beneficient, powerful, but they knew that it couldn't be a man, it couldn't have children because it couldn't copulate with a woman and so on. See the parallel do we?

I am sure that Barnabas know more about Jesus than you ever could. I will take his opinion over yours any day, if I did not already know everything needed to know from AlQ.u.r'an

Why would you need the gospel of barnabas when you have the Qu'ran? I thought the Qu'ran had everything, so why can't you learn everything from the qu'ran? This is one of your contradictions. You tell me that the qu'ran had all the answers so but now your'e saying if you can't get it from the qu'ran. My dear it would be no if, if it was 100% true.

God does not lie, and he makes no mistakes. So when in writing his book why was there a mistake and Muhaaamad put down that A''llah has three daughters and they are to be worshipped and then took it out and said it was of the devil. How can the devil even be allowed in the presence of God, how can the devil even gain influence to the word of God? I mean seriosuly?

If God cannot have a son, how come he had daughters? Did he have daughters?

I know what messiah means. And Jesus is a messiah to his people alone. And not the world over. And what you fail to see is that there is no m.u.s.lim who says that he takes any statement over the Q.u.r'an.

How come he was a messiah to the Jewish people, but the covenant was made with the Arabs?

I this miss both of them, since we do not particularly take the position that Barnabas is 100% correct. I read the Bible before, as I have told you. I am very satisfied with the Q.u.r'a.n. My duty is to be sincere about the ministries of each prophets/messengers about their God. None of them had the write or mandate to say anything other than the fact that he was a bearer of the commandment that God is One and he only should be worshipped and depended upon.

ok so why are you praising God for his writing?

I am a human being. Am not the knower of all things, God. When I contradict myself, let me know. Take advantage of my humanness. But remember God Almighty, always.

No one is the all knower of things, however if I ask you how old Mary was when she gave birth to Jesus, you would tell me 13-16, yet the Qu'ran said she's the sister of Aaron, how is that possoble? was she 13-16 for centuries?

What proof do you need? If a man wrote the Q.your.'an, it would be hard pressed not to take the accalade of what that master piece provides. Look at the Bible, every book had the name of the supposed writer. Even the scribes had his own name in there. Remember the "Gospels according to, mark, matthew, John, Luke?" Even Paul and company and all the apostleshad the names of the apostles in there. Please use this alone and other reasons that you should know that Q.u.r'a.n is the true words of God to make up your mind. We all have a long way to go. We are still alive and thats a reason for uptimism.

Yeah it may be true that it would be hard not to take the accolade unless the main purpose is to mislead people, which can be done and possibly has been done. But you are mistaken about the Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John. They were the writers but didn't give the title to the books. The title was given to the books by the Bishops. This was to give direction to which book was written by whom. This was done with guidance from the Holy Spirit.

The Books of the Bible have as their principal author the Holy Spirit, although He Himself did not write them. The Holy Spirit inspired the human authoers of the Bible to write down in their own words, and in the manner and style of the day (so that people may understand them), what he wanted them to write, and He guided them to the extent that they wrote faithfully what they had ben taught. This working together of God and man in the writing of the Bible is called inspiration. This inspiration covers not only matters of faith and morals, but extends as well to the facts of history as related, and to the whole Bible.

Remember the Bible is not just made up of the New Testament but the Old Testament also.

The answer I get is that the Jews corrupted the Torah and then the Christians corrupted the Bible, so Muhaaamad was told to write down in exact words the word of God.

Well what I want to know is why an Arabic prophet? Why didn't he just send another prophet from amongst the Jews as he had always done in the past. When they disobeyed him and the previous prophet passed, he restored another one to do his work and caution the Jews and set things straight. Why didn't he follow his pattern? or is he confused?

Did he say "well I know I made the covenant with the Arabs but I kinda want the fruition of that covenant to come through the Jews, but they're not listening to me, so I'm gonna send them a prophet again, and again, and again, but I'm just going to give it a try and send one from the Arabs this time"
Well the Jews aren't obedient to Muhaaamad, so where's the next prophet? Did God abandon the Jews all of a sudden?

Whats baseles about there is Only One God, worship Him? Whats baseless about all prophets/messengers were humans and nothing more, since they delivered God commandments to humans? Whats baseless about there is paradise and hellfire as rewards for obedience and disobedience to Gods commandments respectively?

I can seclude myself from society because I am angry at the way it is going. I can show up and say that I received a revelation from God and this is what he said: I the Lord am one and I alone should be worshipped, all the messengers and prophets are humans and nothing more, so if you were to be instructed to worship any one of them, you shouldn't. There is paradise and hellfire as rewards for obedience and disobedience to God's commandments respectively. What is the difference between me and Muhaamad?
What is the difference between Muhaaamad and Joseph Smith? Didn't both of them receive revelations from an angel of God? Weren't both of them annoyed with their societies? Do you see the parallel there?

A man who is warned and take no notice has himself to blame. That is when the consequences of not heeding the warnings. The reward of obedience is mercy, forgiveness of minor sins, if one avoids the major sins. One of the major sins is the 3 in 1 concept, because God categorically declares that He is not Jesus, nor holyghost or father god. Open your eyes and read the Q.u.r.'an. It abounds in Mercy. The first shown is the God forgave Adam and his wife. We do not have the original sin, a greater show of Mercy by God in I.s.lam.

Until you can prove the authenticity of the Qu'ran, don't quote it for me, or use it to prove a point.

Here is the same thing from a Christian perspective. God is ever merciful that he sacrificed himself for our salvation. WHomever does not believe in him will not receive mercy. Whomever sins against him shall be forgiven as long as the person seeks forgiveness. But there are those who will hear and not believe, the Spirit is not with them. They have hardened their heart away from God.
Why are you born of man and woman and not just created from clay as Adam was and your wife created from a part of you? If you have nothing to inherit from Adam? If you do not inherit original sin? Why didn't God just start afresh, afterall it's a new man being created?

Reading sometime maybe accompanied with lack of understanding or misunderstanding, based on many factors. The biggest is refusal to divest oneself from already held ideas. When you read Suratul Fatiha, you did not see a clear sign that it was not God that is talking and that it is M.u.h.a.mmad was the speaker.What you did not see based on your religiousity is that it was not clear to you that it is God that is the Speaker, because that chapter does not start with "God said," based on your Biblical expectation. Q.u.r.'an is not the Bible.

I read it without the attachment to the Bible. Remember I questioned you about the "We" I could have easily said: there the trinity is mentioned in the Qu'ran, but I didn't.
I approach the Qu'ran with history.

I am laughing because I am thinking which part of the bible is that? And then, what was copied and pasted are better in substance and journalistically than the original? This is interesting. Yet he did not take credit for it. Very interesting? I hope those egostical powerful people follow his lead.

I addressed this issue above.

But the jews never even believe up to this present day that jesus is even a prophet. The Romans killed him. Neither position would a mu.s.l.im take. If a m.u.s.l.im takes either position, he is out of I.s.lam. So your argument is baseless. You are passing apple up as orange here.

I think that was my point. That they didn't believe. I called an orange an orange.

Is it that your cumulative earthly work and blind faith in christianity that provides salvation? I used the blind faith because there is no rational for blind belief. But the Creator of this earth is the creator of the heavens. All of these places are his kingdom. He is the Owner. Or is there another owner? But the lord's prayer has a statement about 'thy kingdom comes' and 'on earth as in heaven!' Aren't you now presenting direct clear and present confusion from th Bible about what is written and what the Christians do? Well we will have a good conversation about this and others.

1. It is not blind faith. It is proven faith, in my life too. Don't forget I have experienced it for myself. I am not just blindly following what someone said.
2. Who said the creator of the earth is not the creator of heaven? Oh yeah you are speaking as if you understand what earth means here. I believe I already explained this to you, when I told you that Christians are not of this world. Now you know what earth is.

Chapter 18 Here is shown forth the persecution of the servants of God by the world, and God's protection saving them.

Having said this, Jesus said: 'Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, that ye may be my disciples. If then the world shall hate you, ye shall be truly my disciples; for the world hath been ever an enemy of servants of God. Remember [the] holy prophets that have been slain by the world, even as in the time of Elijah ten thousand prophets were slain by Jezebel, insomuch that scarcely did poor Elijah escape, and seven thousand sons of prophets who were hidden by the captain of Ahab's host. Oh, unrighteous world, that knowest not God! Fear not therefore ye, for the hairs of your head are numbered so that they shall not perish. Behold the sparrows and other
birds, whereof falleth not one feather without the will of God. Shall God, then, have more care of the birds than of man, for whose sake he hath created everything. Is there any man, perchance, who careth more for his shoes than for his own son? Assuredly not. Now how much less ought ye to think that God would abandon you, while taking care of the birds! And why speak I of the birds? A leaf of a tree falleth not without the will of God.
'Believe me, because I tell you the truth, that the world will greatly fear you if ye shall observe my words. For if it feared not to have its wickedness revealed it would not hate you, but it feareth to be revealed, therefore it will hate you and persecute you. If ye shall see your words scorned by the world lay it not to heart, but consider how that God is greater than you; who is in such wise scorned by the world that his wisdom is counted madness If God endureth the world with patience, wherefore will ye lay it to heart, O dust and clay of the earth? In your patience ye shall possess your soul. Therefore if one shall give you a blow on one side of the face, offer him the other that he may smite it. Render not evil for evil, for so do all the worst animals; but render good for evil, and pray God for them that hate you. Fire is not extinguished with fire, but rather with water; even so I say unto you that ye shall not overcome evil with evil, but rather with good. Behold God, who causeth the sun to come upon the good and evil, and likewise the rain. Soought ye to do good to all; for it is written in the law: "Be ye holy, for I your God am holy; be ye pure, for I am pure; and be ye perfect, for I am perfect." Verily I say unto you that the servant studieth to please his master, and so he putteth not on any garment that is displeasing to his master. Your garments are your will and your love. Beware, then, not to will or to love a thing that is displeasing to God, our Lord. Be ye sure that God hateth the pomps and lusts of the world, and therefore hate ye the world.'

Chapter 19 Jesus foretelleth his betrayal, and, descending from the mountain, healeth ten lepers.
When Jesus had said this, Peter answered: 'O teacher, behold we have felt all to follow thee, what shall become of us?' Jesus answered: 'Verily ye in the day of judgment shall sit beside me, giving testimony against the twelve tribes of Israel.' And having said this Jesus sighed, saying: 'O Lord, what thing is this? for I have chosen twelve, and one of them is a devil.'
The disciples were sore grieved at this word; whereupon he who writeth secretly questioned Jesus with tears, saying: 'O master, will Satan deceive me, and shall I then become reprobate?'
Jesus answered: "Be not sore grieved, Barnabas; for those whom God hath chosen before the creation of the world shall not perish. Rejoice, for thy name is written in the book of life.' Jesus comforted his disciples, saying: 'Fear not, for he who shall hate me is not grieved at my saying, because in him is not the divine feeling.' At his words the chosen were comforted. Jesus made his prayers, and his disciples said: 'Amen, so be it, Lord God almighty and merciful.' Having finished his devotions, Jesus came down from the mountain with his disciples, and met ten lepers, who from afar off cried out: 'Jesus, son of David, have mercy on us!'
Jesus called them near to him, and said unto them: 'What will ye of me, O brethren?' They all cried out: 'Give us health!' Jesus answered: 'Ah, wretched that ye are, have ye so lost your reason for that ye say: "Give us health?" See ye not me to be a man like yourselves. Call unto our God that hath created you: and he that is almighty and merciful will heal you. With tears the lepers answered: 'We know that thou art man like us, but yet an holy one of God and a prophet of the Lord; wherefore pray thou to God, and he will heal us.
Thereupon the disciples prayed Jesus, saying: 'Lord, have mercy upon them.' Then groaned Jesus and prayed to God, saying: 'Lord God almighty and merciful, have mercy and hearken to the words of thy servant: and for love of Abraham our father and for thy holy covenant have mercy on the request of these men, and grant them health.' Whereupon Jesus, having said this, turned himself to the lepers and said: 'Go and show yourselves to the priests according to the law of God.'
The lepers departed and on the way were cleansed. Whereupon one of them. seeing that he was healed, returned to find Jesus, and he was an Ishmaelite. And having found Jesus he bowed himself, doing reverence unto him, and saying: 'Verily thou art an holy one of God' and with thanks he prayed him that he would receive him for servant. Jesus answered: 'Ten have been cleansed; where are the nine?' And he said to him that was cleansed: 'I am not come to be served, but to serve: wherefore go to shine home, and recount how much God hath done in thee, in order that they may know that the promises made to Abraham and his son, with the kingdom of God, are drawing nigh.' The cleansed leper departed, and having arrived in his own neighbourhood recounted how much God through Jesus had wrought in him.

You guys should forget about,it is a fake document not a gospel.It contradicts Jesus and other Apostle's teachings.

~Lady~:

Why was the covenant made with the Arabs but carried out by Jewish Prophets?

How come he was a messiah to the Jewish people, but the covenant was made with the Arabs?

We dont usually see eye to eye but this is one pertinent question that mus'lims have steadfastly chosen to pretend to ignore.

Why did all'ah waste all his time using JEWISH PROPHETS? What happened to the lineage of Ishmael from his birth to the time of mu'hammad?
Why is there NO written record of them or any of their prophets?

Most of you against the principle of Barnabas even though he is one of the disciple of Jesus but still you did not accept what he preach. You prepare a false doctrine of Pauline teaching which he even did not meet Jesus in his entire life. a hypocrysis a pharisee which the ebonite hate.

samba123:

Most of you against the principle of Barnabas even though he is one of the disciple of Jesus but still you did not accept what he preach. You prepare a false doctrine of Pauline teaching which he even did not meet Jesus in his entire life. a hypocrysis a pharisee which the ebonite hate.

Mr you err in two areas:

1. Barnabas was NEVER at any point one of the 12 disciples
2. Paul must have met Jesus in the flesh at some point since he was a pharisee learning at the feet of the priests in Jerusalem. Paul was contemporaries with the disciples so its almost 100% possible that he was old enough to have even heard Jesus preach first hand.

Too many times mus'lims expose the false spirit of error behind their religion when they make such bogus mistakes as this to support their heresy.

@Lady

I read it.

Can you please serve me wha you read that made to conclude that my prophet must have written it?

Funny we keep telling you guys the same thing.
Seems like Muhaaamad copied and pasted.

Where did he copy from? Table your facts please

Surah 2

I am actually reading it right now.

The more I read the more I come to the conclusion that it isn't God speaking. I went back to the beginning and this time I am going to read everything (not all today, lol) and I am definitely taking notes.

Honestly it sounds like an instruction given by Muhammad. If God were speaking he wouldn't need to use the pronoun "him"
If God were to say he is God, he would say "I am the Lord, I shall you fear" not "Allah is the Lord, him shall you fear"
If I am speaking of myself I would not use "her" to describe "me" it is not proper language.
(I just want to note that this is the same rebuttal that I have been given by muslims about the Bible, that the author is describing God, well it works here too)


Question: Who was the covenant with, Isaac (Isrealites) or Ishmael (Arabs)? I know there was a thread about it but I just want you or Olabowale to give me an answer.

Where did he copy from? Table your facts plese

The Old Testament.
This is just my personal view, but it seems he couldn't understand the spirituality of God so he resorted to saying that there are things that the Lord will not do. Trying to understand God with human logic is difficult. He doesn't reason in the same manner as humans do. I will continue reading as the days go by and will give you an update of my findings. Cool?

@Lady

I am actually reading it right now.

The more I read the more I come to the conclusion that it isn't God speaking. I went back to the beginning and this time I am going to read everything (not all today, lol) and I am definitely taking notes.

Good. When you finish taking notes, present your questions and we discuss.

Question: Who was the covenant with, Isaac (Isrealites) or Ishmael (Arabs)? I know there was a thread about it but I just want you or Olabowale to give me an answer.

If you are referring to the sacrifice, then you are making a grievous mistake by accepting Isaac and when you are ready, we re-open the discussion.

The Old Testament.
This is just my personal view, but it seems he couldn't understand the spirituality of God so he resorted to saying that there are things that the Lord will not do. Trying to understand God with human logic is difficult. He doesn't reason in the same manner as humans do. I will continue reading as the days go by and will give you an update of my findings. Cool?

Good, I will appreciate your finding but in the meantime, how could you say that he wrote it when he couldnt read nor write?

If he copied the OT, what part did he copy because we have it from Genesis, EXODUS, DEUTERONOMY, NUMBERS, etc and when you provide the area you thought he copied then we will dig deep into the OT  to see if he had done that.

This is a verse to start and will provide you similar verse from your book as we proceed

Sura 7 v 157 :Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them.

babs787:

If you are referring to the sacrifice, then you are making a grievous mistake by accepting Isaac and when you are ready, we re-open the discussion.

even the qu'ran did not refer to Ishmael at all in its obviously plagiarised version of the sacrifice.
What is the significance of this sacrifice? What did it symbolise in the is'lamic sense?

Why (if its at all true) did all'ah ask for the sacrifice of ishmael and then abandon him for Isaac for 4000yrs?

@4him

even the qu'ran did not refer to Ishmael at all in its obviously plagiarised version of the sacrifice.
What is the significance of this sacrifice? What did it symbolise in the is'lamic sense?

Why (if its at all true) did all'ah ask for the sacrifice of ishmael and then abandon him for Isaac for 4000yrs?

I can remember vividly when you posted the verses and I gave you rebuttal providing the detailed verses and asked you who the verse referred to but till now, you havent given you response and if you would be honest to yourself, you would hve read that the versee referred to Isaac after the deed had been committed.

You are even asking what the sacrifice symbolised in The Great Religion when you yourself have been witnessing what it symbolises unlike christianity where it made no sense to you.

babs787:

I can remember vividly when you posted the verses and I gave you rebuttal providing the detailed verses and asked you who the verse referred to but till now, you havent given you response and if you would be honest to yourself, you would hve read that the versee referred to Isaac after the deed had been committed.

You are even asking what the sacrifice symbolised in The Great Religion when you yourself have been witnessing what it symbolises unlike christianity where it made no sense to you.

this is another typical half-baked attempt to dodge the issue. You NEVER at any point did the above you are claiming to have done. NEVER have you given any detailed rebuttals, NEVER have we discussed this issue and NEVER have i posted the verses directly to you.

Now pls answer my questions rather than ur usual beating around the bush example of dishonesty.

The sacrifice of Isaac has a significant symbolism in christianity. What is the symbolism of the sacrifice in the qura'n? Why did all'ah abandon ishmael for 4000 yrs?