Heaven is supposedly a place of peace, a utopia of some sort, a place where there is no pain or any sorrow, but we are told in the bible that there was a war there once, in which lucifer an angel revolted and led a rebellion in which angels were fighting each other, and like all wars there were casualties, but lucifer and his cohorts were defeated and sent down to earth,

This brings to mind a question that I have often wondered about, if there was war in heaven once, what assurance do christians have that there would not be another war again? What assurance do christians have that maybe one of lucifer's rebels( who was not cast down with lucifer in the first war,) would not start another rebellion after christians have gone to heaven?

These questions might sound funny to most christians, but it's something that's worth thinking about, cos I presume that when heaven was created initially it wasn't meant to experience any war, but unfortunately it did, so how sure are christians of a war free heaven?

You have asked a very good question. Now there are many issues involved here. You have to ask who are those going to heaven? According to Revelation Chapter 7 and 14, only 144,000 male Jewish virgins have been "sealed" for heaven. Then, you would now pose your question which is would there be peace for the 144,000? If Revelation 12 is correct, then it is possible that another war could break out any time considering that the devil lives here on earth now and has access to weapons of mass destruction like nuclear weapons. The devil also has a regular visa to and from heaven.

it is clear from many Bible passages that Satan was not barred from heaven or the earth after he was "hurled" at the earth, which predated the creation. In Job 1:1–2:8, he appears before God. In Zechariah 3, he again appears before God. In Genesis, he visited the Garden of Eden and tempted Eve. He tempted Jesus in the wilderness before Jesus began His ministry, which is recorded in Matthew 4:1-11. In Revelation Chapter 2:13, Jesus said he knew that the Devil lived in the city of Pygamos. The question arises that if Satan had already fought a war in heaven and been cast from heaven before the world was created, why is he free to be in heaven and on earth? Your guess is as good as mine. This question has left the flanks for somes sceptics like Robert Green Ingersoll to argue that Christianity needed the devil to validate God and that but for the Devil, argument for God fails.

If he declared war in heaven before, it is possible that he would do so again and next time, he might well take nuclear weapons from earth and declare a final shown with his enemies in heaven. I am really troubled about this possibility.

omonuan: You have asked a very good question. Now there are many issues involved here. You have to ask who are those going to heaven? According to Revelation Chapter 7 and 14, only 144,000 male Jewish virgins have been "sealed" for heaven. Then, you would now pose your question which is would there be peace for the 144,000? If Revelation 12 is correct, then it is possible that another war could break out any time considering that the devil lives here on earth now and has access to weapons of mass destruction like nuclear weapons. The devil also has a regular visa to and from heaven.

it is clear from many Bible passages that Satan was not barred from heaven or the earth after he was "hurled" at the earth, which predated the creation. In Job 1:1–2:8, he appears before God. In Zechariah 3, he again appears before God. In Genesis, he visited the Garden of Eden and tempted Eve. He tempted Jesus in the wilderness before Jesus began His ministry, which is recorded in Matthew 4:1-11. In Revelation Chapter 2:13, Jesus said he knew that the Devil lived in the city of Pygamos. The question arises that if Satan had already fought a war in heaven and been cast from heaven before the world was created, why is he free to be in heaven and on earth? Your guess is as good as mine.

If he declared war in heaven before, it is possible that he would do so again and next time, he might well take nuclear weapons from earth and declare a final shown with his enemies in heaven. I am really troubled about this possibility.

yes sire, it is indeed troubling.

^^^ how are we sure the circle will not repeat itself when the faithfuls are raptured.. it seems the Laws of Human Nature is stronger than God's will ain't it

God: Freewill is a bi#%$tch

lagerwhenindoubt: ^^^ how are we sure the circle will not repeat itself when the faithfuls are raptured.. it seems the Laws of Human Nature is stronger than God's will ain't it

God: Freewill is a bi#%$tch

hahahaha, my christian folks are quiet on this issue, it seems they share similar reservations about heaven.

THERE ARE 3 KINDS OF HEAVEN

obadiah777: THERE ARE 3 KINDS OF HEAVEN

lol, this my guy don come again, the bible only made mention of one heaven.

obadiah777: THERE ARE 3 KINDS OF HEAVEN

Does it really matter which haven? War any where is disruptive. Let us explore the Bible: The bible identifies various levels of heavens that are distinct and unique from each other.

"Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD's thy God" (Deuteronomy 10.14 KJV bible), "But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee" (2nd Chronicles 6.18 KJV bible), "He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things" (Ephesians 4.10 KJV bible

We are given further insight into this subject when Paul tells us of how he was taken up to the "third heaven", in 2nd Corinthians 12, "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven...How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter" (2nd Corinthians 12.2-4 KJV bible). Paul identifies the place that he was taken up to as Paradise, indicating that the third heaven is Paradise.

The war in heaven happened in the presence of The Lord which is third heaven according to Revelation 12.

obadiah777: THERE ARE 3 KINDS OF HEAVEN

carry on

bolaino: lol, this my guy don come again, the bible only made mention of one heaven.

NOPE IT DOESNT. YOU WERE PROBABLY NOT CLUED IN TO THE CONTEXT. LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE >>>>> LAMENTATION 2 VS 1 How hath the Lord covered the daughter of Zion with a cloud in his anger, and cast down from heaven unto the earth the beauty of Israel, and remembered not his footstool in the day of his anger <<<< HEAVEN MEANS RULERSHIP. ISRAEL CAST OUT OF RULERSHIP BY THE ANCIENT BABYLONIAN EMPIRE

MATTHEW 11 VS 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. <<<< HEAVEN IS THE LAND OF ISRAEL TAKEN BY FORCE BY THE ROMANS

ETC ETC ETC

omonuan:

Does it really matter which haven? War any where is disruptive. Let us explore the Bible: The bible identifies various levels of heavens that are distinct and unique from each other.

"Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD's thy God" (Deuteronomy 10.14 KJV bible), "But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee" (2nd Chronicles 6.18 KJV bible), "He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things" (Ephesians 4.10 KJV bible

We are given further insight into this subject when Paul tells us of how he was taken up to the "third heaven", in 2nd Corinthians 12, "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven...How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter" (2nd Corinthians 12.2-4 KJV bible). Paul identifies the place that he was taken up to as Paradise, indicating that the third heaven is Paradise.

The war in heaven happened in the presence of The Lord which is third heaven according to Revelation 12.

THE WAR IN HEAVEN IN REVELATION CHAPTER 12 IS FOR THE RULERSHIP OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE. THE ROMAN EMPIRE WAS HEAVEN THEN MEANING IT RULED THE WORLD

lagerwhenindoubt:

carry on

I HAVE SIRE LOL

for the sake of simplicity, let us say the heaven in this point of interest is where Lucifer was cast down from, the habitation of the Angels and God's Kingdom.. just to do away with the poetic metaphors. so the question is? since the exact conditions are deemed to exist in the "New Heaven" will there be racial segregation that can lead to war? exact conditions being Man will still have a hold on his right to choose

lagerwhenindoubt: for the sake of simplicity, let us say the heaven in this point of interest is where Lucifer was cast down from, the habitation of the Angels and God's Kingdom.. just to do away with the poetic metaphors. so the question is? since the exact conditions are deemed to exist in the "New Heaven" will there be racial segregation that can lead to war? exact conditions being Man will still have a hold on his right to choose

You are correct sir:

Third Heaven - This is where God and the holy angels (and creatures) and spirits of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4). (1Kings 8:27) - “The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you.” (Psalm 2:4) The One enthroned in heaven laughs; The LORD scoffs at them.”

You've brought another issue, would there be apartheid in haven?

obadiah777: NOPE IT DOESNT. YOU WERE PROBABLY NOT CLUED IN TO THE CONTEXT. LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE >>>>> LAMENTATION 2 VS 1 How hath the Lord covered the daughter of Zion with a cloud in his anger, and cast down from heaven unto the earth the beauty of Israel, and remembered not his footstool in the day of his anger <<<< HEAVEN MEANS RULERSHIP. ISRAEL CAST OUT OF RULERSHIP BY THE ANCIENT BABYLONIAN EMPIRE

MATTHEW 11 VS 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. <<<< HEAVEN IS THE LAND OF ISRAEL TAKEN BY FORCE BY THE ROMANS

ETC ETC ETC

like someone mentioned above, it does'nt matter the number of heavens we have, war is a terrible thing, and for it to have happened on God's watch, is very telling, so I ask again, what assurances do the christian faithful have, that there isn't going to be another war in heaven?

obadiah777: THE WAR IN HEAVEN IN REVELATION CHAPTER 12 IS FOR THE RULERSHIP OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE. THE ROMAN EMPIRE WAS HEAVEN THEN MEANING IT RULED THE WORLD

Where did you get your facts sir? Please show us where in the Bible it said that Revelation 12 refers to "the rulership of the Roman Empire."

Be careful sir for there is a Biblical injunction against what you are attempting to do here:

Revelation 22:18-9 which states:

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book."

bolaino: like someone mentioned above, it does'nt matter the number of heavens we have, war is a terrible thing, and for it to have happened on God's watch, is very telling, so I ask again, what assurances do the christian faithful have, that there isn't going to be another war in heaven?

THE WAR WAS STARTED BY GOD. ALL WARS ARE STARTED BY GOD. >>>> EXODUS 15 VS 3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

DANIEL 10 VS 20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

MEN DONT FIGHT WARS. MEN ARE PAWNS. WHEN EMPIRES NEED TO CHANGE ETC ETC GOD FIGHTS ON THE SIDE OF THE EMPIRE THAT HE WANTS TO TAKEOVER

AMOS 9 VS 6 It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth

NOTHING EVIL OR DISATROUS HAPPENS ON EARTH THAT HE DIDNT CAUSE, BUT THESE ARE ALL RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENTS

AMOS 3 VS 6 shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? <<< WAR IS EVIL

REVELATION 19 VS 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

obadiah777: THE WAR WAS STARTED BY GOD. ALL WARS ARE STARTED BY GOD. >>>> EXODUS 15 VS 3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

DANIEL 10 VS 20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

MEN DONT FIGHT WARS. MEN ARE PAWNS. WHEN EMPIRES NEED TO CHANGE ETC ETC GOD FIGHTS ON THE SIDE OF THE EMPIRE THAT HE WANTS TO TAKEOVER

AMOS 9 VS 6 It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth

NOTHING EVIL OR DISATROUS HAPPENS ON EARTH THAT HE DIDNT CAUSE, BUT THESE ARE ALL RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENTS

AMOS 3 VS 6 shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? <<< WAR IS EVIL

REVELATION 19 VS 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

And the moral of your story is?

The war in heaven was part of God's concealed plan of freewill. He gave the angels
freewill knowingly as their Creator because He wanted them to love and serve Him
out of their own free will and not as robots because this gives Him pleasure .
Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated
according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Now , God always prepare before hand for any eventuality because He knows all things
and also gave so much power to satan ,he already
knew that free will can corrupt if used the wrong way , just like you know the power
given to a president can be abused , hence laws are made to check the president. God used satan as an example ,
like a scape goat to show to other angels of what happens to those who disobey Him. Now , we don't know all things but
only work with what have been revealed.
If there is going to be another war in heaven , it haven't been revealed to man through
the scriptures but only God knows because He knows the end from the beginning. One thing
is sure , this is not stated in the scriptures. Read what Jesus told his disciples
before leaving in Acts 1:6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, "Lord, are you at
this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"And he said unto them, It is not for you to know
the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

omonuan:

Where did you get your facts sir? Please show us where in the Bible it said that Revelation 12 refers to "the rulership of the Roman Empire."

Be careful sir for there is a Biblical injunction against what you are attempting to do here:

Revelation 22:18-9 which states:

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book."

READ THE CHAPTER FROM THE START. THE BEAST WITH 7 HEADS AND 10 HORNS IS THE ROMAN EMPIRE

omonuan:

And the moral of your story is?

ALL WARS ARE STARTED BY GOD. NO CHANCE OF A WAR HAPPENING INITIATED BY MAN. MEN ARE PAWNS AND WHEN THE KINGDOM IS ESTABLISHED ALL SWORDS WILL BE BEATEN INTO PLOWSHARES AND THERE WILL BE NO MORE WARS. GOD GAVE THE PERMISSION FOR WARS BY GIVING THE RED HORSE TO THE RULING EMPIRE
REVELATION 6 VS 4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. <<< ALL WARS ON EARTH SANCTIONED AND AUTHORISED AND PARTICIPATED IN BY GOD


ISAIAH 2 VS 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. <<< NO MORE WARS AFTER THE KINGDOM IS ESTABLISHED

obadiah777: READ THE CHAPTER FROM THE START. THE BEAST WITH 7 HEADS AND 10 HORNS IS THE ROMAN EMPIRE

Give me a break sir. Revelation 12: 7 states: "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, " what can be more clearer as to the venue of the war. (Revelation 12:9) "The great dragon was cast out ... into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." It is incongruent to think that God cast the devil from the Roman Empire to the earth because the empire was on earth as far as everyone knows.

And then God said: (Revelation 12:12) "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you." The earth here includes your beloved Roman Empire right?

omonuan:

Give me a break sir. Revelation 12: 7 states: "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, " what can be more clearer as to the venue of the war. (Revelation 12:9) "The great dragon was cast out ... into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." It is incongruent to think that God cast the devil from the Roman Empire to the earth because the empire was on earth as far as everyone knows.

I WILL LEAVE YOU WITH YOUR PASSED DOWN MYTHOLOGICAL INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURES. YOU ARE FULFILLING THIS PROPHESY >>> 2 TIMOTHY 4 VS 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. <<< FABLES

pictures: The war in heaven was part of God's concealed plan of freewill. He gave the angels
freewill knowingly as their Creator because He wanted them to love and serve Him
out of their own free will and not as robots because this gives Him pleasure .
Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated
according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Now , God always prepare before hand for any eventuality because He knows all things
and also gave so much power to satan ,he already
knew that free will can corrupt if used the wrong way , just like you know the power
given to a president can be abused , hence laws are made to check the president. God used satan as an example ,
like a scape goat to show to other angels of what happens to those who disobey Him. Now , we don't know all things but
only work with what have been revealed.
If there is going to be another war in heaven , it haven't been revealed to man through
the scriptures but only God knows because He knows the end from the beginning. One thing
is sure , this is not stated in the scriptures. Read what Jesus told his disciples
before leaving in Acts 1:6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, "Lord, are you at
this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"And he said unto them, It is not for you to know
the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

forgive me but I thought he gave us humans free will and not the angels. I thought that was reason he loves us more than the angels and why he made us in his image

obadiah777: I WILL LEAVE YOU WITH YOUR PASSED DOWN MYTHOLOGICAL INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURES. YOU ARE FULFILLING THIS PROPHESY >>> 2 TIMOTHY 4 VS 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. <<< FABLES

Thanks dude but no one I know has ever understood Revelation 12 as you but I could be wrong. Please show me a citation that supports your interpretation like I just showed you using the Bible. We learn new things every day and I am always willing to learn.

In the interim imbibe these doctrine from 2 Timothy 14-15:

14 Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

omonuan:

Thanks dude but no one I know has ever understood Revelation 12 as you but I could be wrong. Please show me a citation that supports your interpretation like I just showed you using the Bible. We learn new things every day and I am always willing to learn.

In the interim imbibe these doctrine from 2 Timothy 14-15:

14 Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

ACTUALLY THAT WAS NOT A GOOD VIDEO. LET ME LOOK FOR A GOOD VIDEO. BE RIGHT BACK

CANT FIND ANY VIDEOS. I GUESS YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO READ THE WHOLE BOOK OF REVELATION BY YOURSELF AND JUXTAPOSE WITH WORLD HISTORY AND THE OLD TESTAMENT. THIS IS THE SAME WAR HERE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. IT IS THE 193 AD TAKEOVER OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE BY SEPTEMIUS SEVERUS TO USHER IN THE FIRST SEAL >>>> ZECHARIAH 10 VS 5 And they shall be as mighty men, which tread down their enemies in the mire of the streets in the battle: and they shall fight, because the LORD is with them, and the riders on horses shall be confounded.

obadiah777: I WILL LEAVE YOU WITH YOUR PASSED DOWN MYTHOLOGICAL INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURES. YOU ARE FULFILLING THIS PROPHESY >>> 2 TIMOTHY 4 VS 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. <<< FABLES

OGA you said heaven meant the roman empire: you were asked to prove and you started becoming evasive; I smell a rat

olire: OGA you said heaven meant the roman empire: you were asked to prove and you started becoming evasive; I smell a rat

I ALREADY DID BUT THE GUY WANT MORE PROOF. THE BEGINNING OF CHAPTER 12, THE BEAST WITH 7 HEADS AND 10 HORNS <<< ROMAN EMPIRE.
REVELATION 12 VS 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

obadiah777: THE WAR WAS STARTED BY GOD. ALL WARS ARE STARTED BY GOD. >>>> EXODUS 15 VS 3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

DANIEL 10 VS 20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

MEN DONT FIGHT WARS. MEN ARE PAWNS. WHEN EMPIRES NEED TO CHANGE ETC ETC GOD FIGHTS ON THE SIDE OF THE EMPIRE THAT HE WANTS TO TAKEOVER

AMOS 9 VS 6 It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth

NOTHING EVIL OR DISATROUS HAPPENS ON EARTH THAT HE DIDNT CAUSE, BUT THESE ARE ALL RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENTS

AMOS 3 VS 6 shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? <<< WAR IS EVIL

REVELATION 19 VS 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

you've still not answered the question my good sire,

bolaino: you've still not answered the question my good sire,

WHAT WAS THE QUESTION SIRE

obadiah777: WHAT WAS THE QUESTION SIRE

what assurance do christians have that there won't be another war in heaven?