NO inference, no personal interpretation. Lets look into the chapter verse by verse
Romans 4

VERSE 1

4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

Briefly explain what you can deduce from that verse, I will do the same after you

I wanna join in. Any Christian that don't understand da book of Romans can't understand anything in da bible,dats da book dat holds all apostolic doctrines.

flourishG: I wanna join in.

I am still waiting for the guy that made me open the thread, you are very welcome to join though.

^^^ The book is revelation full n I love it most.

true^^^most people get carried away by the four gospels because of Jesus. Little do they know that the gospel of Christ to the church started after His death.
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:


I hope he comes in though cos he has a funny way of interpreting scriptures.

shdemidemi: NO inference, no personal interpretation. Lets look into the chapter verse by verse
Romans 4

VERSE 1

4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

Briefly explain what you can deduce from that verse, I will do the same after you

Contradiction!

It is still your personal interpretations that you will be offering.

You and your friend can discuss. I have already told you that you are not worth engaging. Why? Because you preach lawlessness, that one needs to just have a carnal form of 'belief' and that once you have this, you can never 'fall away'.
Put simply, this is utter garbage. Let the blind lead the blind. I will honour and serve the Lord.
If you think you are eternally saved, perhaps John's letter to the seven churches (not pagan temples, but actual churches) will serve as a warning to you. I will continue to teach what God has laid upon my heart. Have a blessed week.

italo:

Contradiction!

It is still your personal interpretations that you will be offering.

Thank you for your comment, you can also add what you think every verse is saying as we go on.

He also preaches that there are two different gospels, Jesus' gospel and Paul's.

He preaches that it was the devil that compiled the Bible under God's inspiration.

JesusisLord85: You and your friend can discuss. I have already told you that you are not worth engaging. Why? Because you preach lawlessness, that one needs to just have a carnal form of 'belief' and that once you have this, you can never 'fall away'.
Put simply, this is utter garbage. Let the blind lead the blind. I will honour and serve the Lord.
If you think you are eternally saved, perhaps John's letter to the seven churches (not pagan temples, but actual churches) will serve as a warning to you. I will continue to teach what God has laid upon my heart. Have a blessed week.

JesusisLord85: You and your friend can discuss. I have already told you that you are not worth engaging. Why? Because you preach lawlessness, that one needs to just have a carnal form of 'belief' and that once you have this, you can never 'fall away'.
Put simply, this is utter garbage. Let the blind lead the blind. I will honour and serve the Lord.
If you think you are eternally saved, perhaps John's letter to the seven churches (not pagan temples, but actual churches) will serve as a warning to you. I will continue to teach what God has laid upon my heart. Have a blessed week.

Ok, but I want to learn from you as well, we are not barbarians. At least, we both agree the bible is our guide. Explain what you believe that verse is talking about, I will explain mine. We can then compare to see whose interpretation is in the context of the chapter as we proceed.

Jesus remains The Lord.

italo: He also preaches that there are two different gospels, Jesus' gospel and Paul's.

He preaches that it was the devil that compiled the Bible under God's inspiration.

Lol at Jesus gospel and Paul's gospel. This thread was actually opened to look into the guide we all have, you will do well if you can help with what you understand by every verse, I might learn one or two things from you too.

shdemidemi:

Ok, but I want to learn from you as well, we are not barbarians. At least, we both agree the bible is our guide. Explain what you believe that verse is talking about, I will explain mine. We can then compare to see whose interpretation is in the context of the chapter.

Jesus remains The Lord.

That is not how I do things. This is how the church falls into the trap of misitnerpreting the scriptures. You cannot understand many of Paul's letters unless you understand the Law and the prophets. Remember, he wrote letters, and the 'word' the referenced was the OT. When I get time I will do a study on Romans, whic will reference many other sciptures. Similar to the way I am studying Galatians.
Your case is peculiar. When I face people who say the law is done away with, they typically say this is true for everyone, Jew or not. You, on the other hand, believe there is one law for Jews and another for the church. You say there are two gospels. The early church was mainly Jewish, so how does that work. Anyway, you need not respond.
And again, there is nothing in the prophets that backs your strange claims. Jesus did everything to fulfil what was prophesied about him by His own prophets, and He lived according to God's laws and commandments. Find me somewhere in the prophets where it suggests the law will be abolished, or where there will be two gospels. When you can do that clearly, we might be able to have a discussion.

JesusisLord85:

That is not how I do things. This is how the church falls into the trap of misitnerpreting the scriptures. You cannot understand many of Paul's letters unless you understand the Law and the prophets. Remember, he wrote letters, and the 'word' the referenced was the OT. When I get time I will do a study on Romans, whic will reference many other sciptures. Similar to the way I am studying Galatians.
Your case is peculiar. When I face people who say the law is done away with, they typically say this is true for everyone, Jew or not. You, on the other hand, believe there is one law for Jews and another for the church. You say there are two gospels. The early church was mainly Jewish, so how does that work. Anyway, you need not respond.
And again, there is nothing in the prophets that backs your strange claims. Jesus did everything to fulfil what was prophesied about him by His own prophets, and He lived according to God's laws and commandments. Find me somewhere in the prophets where it suggests the law will be abolished, or where there will be two gospels. When you can do that clearly, we might be able to have a discussion.

Bro, I really don't understand what you mean by the bolded. you seem to have so much time to criticise what I say but reluctant to go into the word of God with me, if you are not ready for this you have no right to question what I say.

It is clearly written in the epistles-
8 For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved ([c]delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;
9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]

I see no reason why anyone will still come out to say he is under the mosaic law or he is saved by self- righteousness. According to Paul, this gospel to Gentiles has always been a secret/ mystery God had kept from the beginning.


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


Bro, the best you can do is just come out and do Romans or Galatians with me, if you won't do that, keep your opinion to yourself.

shdemidemi:

Bro, I really don't understand what you mean by the bolded. you seem to have so much time to criticise what I say but reluctant to go into the word of God with me, if you are not ready for this you have no right to question what I say.

8 For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved ([c]delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;
9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]

I see no reason why anyone will still come out to say he is under the mosaic law or he is saved by self- righteousness. According to Paul, this gospel to Gentiles has always been a secret/ mystery God had kept from the beginning.


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


Bro, the best you can do is just come out and do Romans or Galatians with me, if you won't do that, keep your opinion to yourself.

Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth. You can see one of my old posts that explains that Romans 7 - clearly he was explaining something of a mystery. It is this way with many of his letters, not all, but many require a good understanding of the law. Whenever the Pharisees tried to trap Jesus, he always answered ina ccordance with the law. The mere fact that your opinions - that is all they are - contradict the OT should tlel you that you have misunderstood.

Let me give only 1 brief example of the contradictions held by people like you:
They tell me observing the law is equivalent to bondage. The use Galatians 3:10:
"For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

Misunderstood (see my Galatians study).. And at the same time they say use 2 Colossians 2:16
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

Now, the Galatians quote, without understanding, would suggest one is not saved if he continues to observe the law. While the Colossians quote just says, don't let anyone judge you, let all be onvinced in their own mind. So, with one, you would say I am off to hell, with the other you say "it doesn't matter".

When I give the true interpretations, you will find zero contradictions.
One other thing rearding observing the feasts of the Lord, I have been condemned for deciding to celebrate them, by people who observe Easter religiously, and Easter has pagan roots and is not mentioend in scripture.

The hypocrisy is amazing. What I find intriguing about you though, and why I even bother to reply you sometimes, is that you say Jews should observe the law, but everyone else is free to be lawless.
At least the others are consistent in their inconsistencies, you are kind of all over the place.

This is why I need you to go verse after verse. Tha man was making an illustration of a man and a woman to those acquainted with the law. The Gentiles never had a law, so they might not the analogy of a man and a woman he was trying to use to drive home is point.

That is romans 7 you read from, we can actually start from 4 to sort out the contradictions we are arguing about. Jumping from one verse to another can't help.

shdemidemi: This is why I need you to go verse after verse. Tha man was making an illustration of a man and a woman to those acquainted with the law. The Gentiles never had a law, so they might not the analogy of a man and a woman he was trying to use to drive home is point.

That is romans 7 you read from, we can actually start from 4 to sort out the contradictions we are arguing about. Jumping from one verse to another can't help.

You and this your two rules for Jews and the rest. You can give your explanation of Romans. When I get time I will read the book again to refresh my mind, and consider other passages alongside.

JesusisLord85:

You and this your two rules for Jews and the rest. You can give your explanation of Romans. When I get time I will read the book again to refresh my mind, and consider other passages alongside.

Your bad, you need to refresh yet you argue before doing that.

This was our position as Gentiles before the gospel was brought to us by Paul -

11 Therefore, remember that at one time you were Gentiles (heathens) in the flesh, called Uncircumcision by those who called themselves Circumcision, [itself a [e]mere mark] in the flesh made by human hands.
12 [Remember] that you were at that time separated (living apart) from Christ [excluded from all part in Him], utterly estranged and outlawed from the rights of Israel as a nation, and strangers with no share in the sacred compacts of the [Messianic] promise [with no knowledge of or right in God’s agreements, His covenants]. And you had no hope (no promise); you were in the world without God.

shdemidemi:

Your bad, you need to refresh yet you argue before doing that.

This was our position as Gentiles before the gospel was brought to us by Paul -

11 Therefore, remember that at one time you were Gentiles (heathens) in the flesh, called Uncircumcision by those who called themselves Circumcision, [itself a [e]mere mark] in the flesh made by human hands.
12 [Remember] that you were at that time separated (living apart) from Christ [excluded from all part in Him], utterly estranged and outlawed from the rights of Israel as a nation, and strangers with no share in the sacred compacts of the [Messianic] promise [with no knowledge of or right in God’s agreements, His covenants]. And you had no hope (no promise); you were in the world without God.

I can probably explainthe ephesians, but I guess everytime you quote, it will require me to give explanation from a Hebraic mindset.
I don't know everything about the law, so I would study scripture to teach about it to someone. The fact that it's not all in my memory does not take away from it, and I will always know the overiding message. nd, again, my messages tend to show consistency, I have looked at your post, yours is everywhere. The only thing you say consistemtly is that (and i'm paraphrasing) "once 'saved, you can never be 'unsaved, it is eternal". Even your fellow 'anti-law' party will disagree with you there. I know Charles Stanley teaches this nonsense. Guy knows his bible, I've only been studing mine for 6 months, that in itself does not mean he is correct. He has just rehearsed his lies better than I know my truths. All in good time, God is revealing more and more each day.

JesusisLord85:

I can probably explainthe ephesians, but I guess everytime you quote, it will require me to give explanation from a Hebraic mindset.
I don't know everything about the law, so I would study scripture to teach about it to someone. The fact that it's not all in my memory does not take away from it, and I will always know the overiding message. nd, again, my messages tend to show consistency, I have looked at your post, yours is everywhere. The only thing you say consistemtly is that (and i'm paraphrasing) "once 'saved, you can never be 'unsaved, it is eternal". Even your fellow 'anti-law' party will disagree with you there. I know Charles Stanley teaches this nonsense. Guy knows his bible, I've only been studing mine for 6 months, that in itself does not mean he is correct. He has just rehearsed his lies better than I know my truths. All in good time, God is revealing more and more each day.

We are making this whole thing long, lets look at any chapter especially romans cos it is a doctrinal book verse after verse. Simple

shdemidemi:

We are making this whole thing long, lets look at any chapter especially romans cos it is a doctrinal book verse after verse. Simple

Do you not work. Anyway, when I finish Galatians I will do a study on Romans. It was you, or one of your party, that persuaded me to go into Galatians in the first place, as you/they kept quoting from it picking things out of context. It was good in the end, I learned a lot on the way and God revealed things to me.
No doubt we will disagree on all epistles. So let me finish that, and then I will divide Romans for you.

JesusisLord85:

Do you not work. Anyway, when I finish Galatians I will do a study on Romans. It was you, or one of your party, that persuaded me to go into Galatians in the first place, as you/they kept quoting from it picking things out of context. It was good in the end, I learned a lot on the way and God revealed things to me.
No doubt we will disagree on all epistles. So let me finish that, and then I will divide Romans for you.

Hmmm I want us to go through it together, no sermon, no inference, we shall say them as it is written.

I did not force you into this, I called you to this thread cos you were constantly throwing tantrums, if you don't have time to look into the word of God with me, ignore my post.

shdemidemi:

Hmmm I want us to go through it together, no sermon, no inference, we shall say them as it is written.

I did not force you into this, I called you to this thread cos you were constantly throwing tantrums, if you don't have time to look into the word of God with me, ignore my post.

haha you want everything your way, you throw random closed questions and then throw a tantrum if your question is not answered in 5 mins or ignored.
Anyway I will go into Romans agter Galatians as I plan. You are free to do your verse by verse breakdown before are after then. I have diagnosed your problem. You hare looking at scripture through a gentile lense. You do realise that when Paul used the word "scripture" thhe only scripture that existed then was the old testament. His writings were letters. If you find they contradict scripture or the prophets, he is either a false teacher or you have fallen into the trap Peter identified - you misunderstand Paul. The Bereans in Acts 17 tested everything Paul said by studying the OT, and Paul welcomed this. Still waiting for a 'anti-law' person o identify where in the prophets it was written God, who never changes, will decide you don't need to follow the law. Following the law in order to gain salvation is nonsense, I agree. Only through Christ we are saved. But do we nullify the law because of grace? God forbid! We establish it. Oh, look at that, I am in agreement with the word and the prophets
God called swine an abomination to eat, and two men sleeping together, he used the same word. How is it,the church has decided that the latter stil stands, and the former does not. Simple, gentile lense, and supermarket christianity Picking the parts of the law they feel they can comfortably abide by.

Rev 2:26 "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations"
Rev 21:27 "And there shall in no wise enter into it {the Kingdom of God} any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life"

Anyway, by now, I think we both know what the other believes. Hope you come around to the truth and move away from lawlessness.

Shalom

pls before you can understamd a verse in the holy scriptures, you need to read the previous verse(s) and the verse(s) that is after it. this was what i did as soon has i saw the topic. the verse is only teaching about justification by faith and abraham was given as an example because he wasnt justified by his works but by faith

mcfynest: pls before you can understamd a verse in the holy scriptures, you need to read the previous verse(s) and the verse(s) that is after it. this was what i did as soon has i saw the topic. the verse is only teaching about justification by faith and abraham was given as an example because he wasnt justified by his works but by faith

Thank you o..the guy just wants to pick a random verse, he would then interpret in a way that suits him. I hope he does what I have asked him to do.

shdemidemi:

Thank you o..the guy just wants to pick a random verse, he would then interpret in a way that suits him. I hope he does what I have asked him to do.

Erm, is that not what I suggested with the way you are talking about verse by verse. I study a chapter and understand context. Don't know what your partner is referring to anyway. Gal 4 coming soon

JesusisLord85:

Erm, is that not what I suggested with the way you are talking about verse by verse. I study a chapter and understand context. Don't know what your partner is referring to anyway. Gal 4 coming soon

I believe all you wanna do is impose your understanding which is wrong, do the honourable thing my friend. You have shown traits of a coward so far, I will soon ignore all your display of notoriety for good.

Out of two or three witnesses a truth is established, I have invited you to share the word with you three times, and you have given excuses to frustrate it.

shdemidemi:

I believe all you wanna do is impose your understanding which is wrong, do the honourable thing my friend.

Ok, if that is what you believe. All I know is your doctrine is all messed up. First I am in bondage, then I lose salvation because I want to please God by obeying his commandments, BUT then, by your interpretation of Colossians 2:16 one should not be judged for observing certain days.. so which is it lol... Don't worry I will also get to Colossians too.
'No need to repent'
Two gospels.
Even Paul would have stoned you.

I wonder what I could be doing so bad. I read the word, God revealed to me some truths. I decided to observe sabbath, the Lords feast days (not pagan such as Easter), not eat what God himself called unclean, 10 commandments. And I ask for forgiveness at the beginning of each prayer. I teach that you cannot be saved by observing the law, but you must believe that through Christ you are saved. And somehow, that makes me a demon in your eyes.

Contrast with you. Your teaching is the reason why so many 'christians' are comfortable in their sin. I should know, I used to be one of those 'sunday christians'. Baptised, club on friday, do this do that, and based on teachings by people like Charles Stanley, I thought, once saved I'm always saved. Lies from the pits of hell.

Glad I found the truth. It is not bondage. In fact, I feel liberated.

Praise the Almighty!

JesusisLord85:

Ok, if that is what you believe. All I know is your doctrine is all messed up. First I am in bondage, then I lose salvation because I want to please God by obeying his commandments, BUT then, by your interpretation of Colossians 2:16 one should not be judged for observing certain days.. so which is it lol... Don't worry I will also get to Colossians too.
'No need to repent'
Two gospels.
Even Paul would have stoned you.

I wonder what I could be doing so bad. I read the word, God revealed to me some truths. I decided to observe sabbath, the Lords feast days (not pagan such as Easter), not eat what God himself called unclean, 10 commandments. And I ask for forgiveness at the beginning of each prayer. I teach that you cannot be saved by observing the law, but you must believe that through Christ you are saved. And somehow, that makes me a demon in your eyes.

Contrast with you. Your teaching is the reason why so many 'christians' are comfortable in their sin. I should know, I used to be one of those 'sunday christians'. Baptised, club on friday, do this do that, and based on teachings by people like Charles Stanley, I thought, once saved I'm always saved. Lies from the pits of hell.

Glad I found the truth. It is not bondage. In fact, I feel liberated.

Praise the Almighty!

How many adulterers have you stoned thus far?

If God judge you by what you do today, will you make heaven?

What did the Israelites do on the day of Passover to avoid the spirit of death. Wasn't the blood of the lamb sufficient ?

Is Christ not our Passover lamb?


See, I have tolerated your childish act for too long... What is your problem?

shdemidemi:

How many adulterers have you stoned thus far?

Olodo, that is the curse of the law...death. The law itself stands
Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, so a Christian who has confessed Him as Lord does not have to die/be stonned/sacrifice a goat on account of their sin.

^you hv started playing games.if you can't do a verse by verse explanation i think it's advisable u vacate the thread.there're countless verses that proves gentile christians are not subject to the law of moses.are you a jew by birth?