How beneficial would it be if the world were to wake one morning and find the HIV virus, ebola virus, tuberculosis, leprosy, cancers, etc have been wiped off the face of the earth. Or that the inhospitable deserts of the earth have been turned into lush and fertile lands for crops and animals; or that earthquakes, volcanoes and tornadoes have been summarily consigned into the abyss of the past?

Well all of the above would be extremely beneficial to the human condition if these changes were to happen permanently. In fact, every single one of these could be described as a veritable "miracle" in its own right.

The theistic community promotes a very different notion of miracle, understood to be a condition which contravenes the natural laws, brought about by the direct intervention of their respective deity. Of what use are these types of miracles? Did any of the miracles attributed to Jesus leave any permanent lasting effects that could be enjoyed today? Did Jesus

1) Permanently eradicate any of the ailments that afflict humankind. He is said to have healed individuals of various ailments, but why did he not just eradicate the ailment. If he had done so, the history and medical books would be saying "that such and such condition was a particularly crippling condition until Jesus eradicated it from the face of the earth". Unfortunately, in all his wisdom, he came and departed without doing any such thing.

2) Did he provide humans with a technology or knowledge to conquer some of the natural challenges that confront us? he is said to have walked on water, but he left behind no hydrodynamic technology useful to us today.

3) Did he conquer famine and starvation. He is said to have fed thousand with only a paltry amount of bread and fish whilst in the regions around him, many would have been starving to dead. Did he leave behind knowledge and technology of dealing with soil erosion, food shortages, failed harvests ?

In fact, none of Jesus' supposed miracles have left a permanent legacy that has advanced and enriched our lives. It is as though he were never on this earth.


All(most) of the miracles attributed to Jesus, then and now, tend to be of the individualistic (i.e., on the human person) and consequently of ephemeral nature. When the human passes away, they take the miracle away with them, thus leaving no trace of the miracle. It would be nice if Jesus had considered performing material and non-personal miracles, such as eradicating diseases, poverty, solved the problem of desertification, soil erosion, permanently calmed the forces of tornadoes, etc. These, truly would have been miracles worthy of a god. Rather than messing about with a few loaves of bread and fishes, turning water into wine, raising the dead, walking on water, calming a rough sea, cursing a fig tree, etc, etc.

There are many today who profess performing miracles in the name of Jesus. Unsurprisingly, non of these latter-day Jesuses are able to perform material non-personal miracles. Or could they? Could they, in the name of Jesus;

1) Command and empty glass to become full of water?

2) Command the total eradication of any of the diseases that afflict us?

3) Move the Himalayas from its present location to a location 1000 miles north?

4) Bring back to life someone who has been dead 1000 years?

Any of these acts, if performed could potentially provide humans with the knowledge to face and tackle some of the formidable challenges that confront us.

completely pointless
if miracles do happen as they claim then the concentration of churches in nigeria ( one church per house hold), should have eliminated the physical, spiritual, emotional, economic, diseases synonymous with the african continent
the truth is they are a nuisance festering false hope
they are also the biggest con of the modern era

vivaladiva:

completely pointless
if miracles do happen as they claim then the concentration of churches in nigeria ( one church per house hold), should have eliminated the physical, spiritual, emotional, economic, diseases synonymous with the african continent
the truth is they are a nuisance festering false hope
they are also the biggest con of the modern era

here is the problem . . . conclusion with no premise, no clear attempt to question this from an unbiased point of view.
Is that how you learnt science? You must have been a poor student.

This is were your argument fails the test - do you even understand what a miracle is? Is a miracle supposed to solve all the world's problems by fiat?
Just an oddball example . . . as powerful as America is it still has homeless citizens . . . is it because of a failure of government?

Science has plenty of answers . . . why have they no answer to the world's problems too or are those meant to be put at the doorsteps of God alone?

give me one person who has genuinly been healed and i would almost rest my case, a blind man can see after being born blind yet he can tell the diff bwtween blue and yellow
if it looks like a con, smells like a con and sounds like a con, u know the rest,
the presence of homlessness in america is partly due to its capitalists ideology
in iceland and most of the scandernavian countries were the governments are mostly socialist, majority of the homless are homless by choice
ever heard of the phrase from cradle to death

vivaladiva:

give me one person who has genuinly been healed and i would almost rest my case, a blind man can see after being born blind yet he can tell the diff bwtween blue and yellow
if it looks like a con, smells like a con and sounds like a con, u know the rest,
the presence of homlessness in america is partly due to its capitalists ideology
in iceland and most of the scandernavian countries were the governments are mostly socialist, majority of the homless are homless by choice
ever heard of the phrase from cradle to death

If you saw a fake $5 bill, would that automatically mean there were no genuine ones out there?

- your attempt to explain away homelessness as being by choice or becuase of a capitalist ideology holds no water. Nobody wakes up tomorrow asking to be paid just enough to pay his bills. No one wants to slave away at 5 jobs just to be able to afford a tiny house and a small bicycle . . . in every society there must be rich and poor . . . we need bottom feeders to keep the economy afloat.

alas u are wrong
people can be and some are unemployed, homless, , by choice i know that for a fact
one of the market failures of capitalism are these so called negative economic externalities, where people are priced out of the housing markets or cannot secure a job due to competetion. tis like saying every one that is given a bar of soap will definately take a shower ( wrong). some will and some wont
if all of nairalanders lived in a commune and the highly resourced can make up for the poorly resourced, then every one would be equal.
in reality however, the highly resourced will not want to be deprived of his or her income perharps because they feel the poorly resourced are lazy or free riders etc hence in the nairaland commune some would be rich and some will be poor ( that is why we have taxes, redistributes income from the rich to the poor)

vivaladiva:

alas u are wrong
people can be and some are unemployed, homless, , by choice i know that for a fact
one of the market failures of capitalism are these so called negative economic externalities, where people are priced out of the housing markets or cannot secure a job due to competetion. tis like saying every one that is given a bar of soap will definately take a shower ( wrong). some will and some wont
if all of nairalanders lived in a commune and the highly resourced can make up for the poorly resourced, then every one would be equal.
in reality however, the highly resourced will not want to be deprived of his or her income perharps because they feel the poorly resourced are lazy or free riders etc hence in the nairaland commune some would be rich and some will be poor ( that is why we have taxes, redistributes income from the rich to the poor)

isnt it ironic that you have all these excuses for why rich societies still have poor citizens and then turn around to berate God for the existence of farmine and disease?
Fact - man is born endowed with the power of choice . . . what you do with that choice is not God's fault.

Whoever thinks miracles are not real, will believe it when they need one.

4him, i dont bring god into any thing
when i want to have a rational conversation i would like to threat it as such
i dont blame or credit god for any thing, people are born with choices you say
is that the case for the mentally retarded, the severly disabled
every one has choices but choices are not evenly distributed, the choices open to u are certainly diff from those open to me
and how people choose to exercise their choices is independent and also dependant on the choices other people make

vivaladiva:

4him, i don't bring god into any thing
when i want to have a rational conversation i would like to threat it as such
i don't blame or credit god for any thing, people are born with choices you say
is that the case for the mentally retarded, the severly disabled
every one has choices but choices are not evenly distributed, the choices open to u are certainly diff from those open to me
and how people choose to exercise their choices is independent and also dependant on the choices other people make

Ever heard that life is never fair to all? Ask yourself a question . . . what would it have been like if u had been born in Darfur? Did the Darfurians choose to be refugees struggling for daily survival by choice? Maybe, maybe not . . . but such is life.

For the mentally retarded, more often than not it is either due to medical complications during birth or genetic predisposition. Thanks to advancement in science we are now able to catch high risk parents earlier and inform them of the potentials of having children with certain medical problems. Its not God's fault that malaria exists is it?

krama:

Whoever thinks miracles are not real, will believe it when they need one.

well said

did any real miracles happen today?

huxley:

did any real miracles happen today?

what kind of question is that?
to your original post, maybe God (who is the originator) of all miracles is not interested in solving these problems