@larry b

Finally, i would have loved to personally know the management involved in stating criterias for recruitment in various organisation so as to advice them to let their children study Chemistry in A.B.U or any University and see if they can boast of a 3rd class without even having 2 extra years.

There is no organisation anywhere that states criteria for recruitment into organisations. It's simply factor of competition. when you have too many people applying for very few jobs then paper qualifications become the first tool to whittle down the applicant pool to a manageable size. Even with the 1st class and 2'1 criteria, the applicant pool is still THREE MUCH for the companies to handle so they started introducing aptitude tests as a second step to reducing the number of applicants!

As a graduate of Chemistry, i know what it means to graduate with a 2'2 and i know that my fellow chemist in the house will actually know what i am talking about.

Certainly not! I know a friend who graduated with a 1st class in biochemistry and you will agree with me that is way more difficult than chemistry! And he did not buy his marks, he was down right intelligent and he worked hard! I took a few chemistry courses in college and though difficult were certainly not insurmountable and i can proudly say i did much better than most chemistry students, my average score was an A in all my 10 chenistry courses including the dreaded physical chemistry. The truth is because of the backward nature of our education system, we now have graduates who did not as much as open one single page of a chemistry text book throughout! All they do is rely on notes and hand outs! Very few will ever expend their "scarce" resources to purchase textbooks, the ones in the libraries are still as new as when they were bought and yet the same students expect to score A's!

I have a 2'2 which i worked hard to get and i am really proud of myself. But the truth is that when will Nigerians learn not to judge the ability of a person to work by his /her qualification. We all know that d system of education in Nig. today is corrupt b'because more than 50% of graduates with good results today actually didn't work for it.

Certainly not! More than 90% of today's graduates deserve every grade they finish with. So since we all know that less than "50% of all graduates with good results actually did not work for it and ALL those who finished with poor grades "worked for it", and since we can no longer judge the "ability" of a person by his paper qualification why don't we just shut down all our schools and revert to a system of "judging our abilities" to get jobs. Why then did you bother to go to school since you knew it was no way of judging your true "abilities"?
If we cannot judge a person by his paper qualification, then:
1 of what use is the time wasted getting the qualification in the first place?
2 how do you expect the few companies out there to judge the abilities of 20,000 applicants for 2 job openings?

Why is it that those with "lower" grades are always quick to attack those who come out with better grades as having "not worked" for it? Where were they when we were sweating it out in dark corners with candles? where were they when we spent the better part of class lectures taking down notes while they slept or never even showed up in class?

Our Govt. of today say they are trying to reduce the rate of armedrobbers in the country, how is that expected to happen when graduates with their hard earned certificates are denied the chance to work simply b'because the did not have a 1st class or 2'1.

And who is denying those without a 1st class or 2'1 the chance to work? where are the jobs for even the 1st class and 2'1 holders? So you expect to be rewarded for your laxitude and inability to go the extra mile to get better grades over equally or over and above those who gave up the fun and parties you enjoyed to work for better grades with their future in mind?

My dear, concentrate on feeling proud of your mediocre "achievement" rather than pulling others down! You earn what you deserve!

hehehe

Davidylan, did you graduate with a first class?

Genial:

hehehe

Davidylan, did you graduate with a first class?

Proudly yes! and i have a good number of friends who worked really hard and also finished with a 1st class and a 2'1. We do not deserve to be categorised as those who are just "cram and pour", "just have paper qualifications and nothing upstairs", "slept with or threatened our lecturers for marks" by those who did not work hard enough!

davidylan:

Proudly yes! and i have a good number of friends who worked really hard and also finished with a 1st class and a 2'1. We do not deserve to be categorised as those who are just "cram and pour", "just have paper qualifications and nothing upstairs", "slept with or threatened our lecturers for marks" by those who did not work hard enough!

No wonder you're taking this so personal!

Hehehe  This is all so funny. . .

I graduated with a first as well - in Biochemistry -, and felt less than pleased when it seemed someone was suggesting I cheated to do so!

Now I just find it funny. . . hehehe. . .

@genial

I had to, it's becoming the fad these days for those who finish with less fancy grades to go home and say "oh afterall those who finished with 1st class or 2'1 did so by less than honest means" to justify their laziness. Others, epecially the women, hide under the victimisation umbrella as excuse. No one is honest enough to say it was because they never bothered to put in some extra effort. Most students don't realise how important their final grade is until they are about to graduate when it now becomes too late to rectify. They suddenly resort to the "i'm proud of my 3rd class, at least i worked for it" nonsense!

Some find it difficult to understand why companies insist on a 1st class or 2'1 deg as employment criteria, they want the pool to be thrown open to the lazy as well as the hardworking, where then is the justice for those who deprived themselves of the fun and parties to do well?
My dad used to say to me "work hard now, after 5 yrs while others are sweating and suddenly seeing their folly, you will be relaxing and enjoying urself. I'm glad i took that advice!

And as for saying 1st class students don't deserve their grades, the foreign schools who admit them know better!

davidylan:


My dear, concentrate on feeling proud of your mediocre "achievement" rather than pulling others down! You earn what you deserve!

LOL excellent statement

@Davidylan

The grapes are sour. . . (but that's only because I can't/couldn't get them!).

_{I hope you understand the sarcasm. . . .}

Genial:

@Davidylan

The grapes are sour. . . (but that's only because I can't/couldn't get them!).

_{I hope you understand the sarcasm. . . .}

Sure, the fox and the grapes!!!

@Davidylan

Please don't get upset about the grapes. . . those who were able to gather them, and subsequently taste them, know better. . . they're not sour!

It's nice to see that you're trying to process your grapes further. . . that way, hopefully, they will be more useful to everyone.

I'm processing mine as well!

_{Did you get that?}

@genial

sure i got the sarcasm. I'm not upset. I'm also processing the grapes too, thank God i was able to get them. hopefully someday someone will be a beneficiary of such!
Keep up the good work bro

@Davidylan

Yo could either you or genial inform me of the 1st class, 2.1, 2.2 grading, ive been tryna get an answer to it and no one seems to have given me something concrete. Plz  

davidylan:

Nigeria operates a 5.00 GPA scale, this differs as some Unis operate a 6.00 GPA scale.

5.00 - 4.50 - 1st class
4.49 - 3.50 - 2'1
3.49 - 2.50 - 2'2
2.49 - 1.50 - 3rd class
Below 1.49 - Pass.
Anything below 1.00 - Probation/Extra yr/Finished did not Graduate (FNG)
Anything below 1.00 for 2 years running - Termination of studentship

All the above for my dear University of Agriculture, Abeokuta.

I believe that applies to all Nigerian Universities (?).

so 1st class is an A- and above average?!

@Garuba,

i thot i analyzed it in my earlier post.
A - 70 -10
B 69-60
C 59-50
D 49-45
E 44-40
F 39 -0

Nigeria operates a 5.00 GPA scale, this differs as some Unis operate a 6.00 GPA scale.

5.00 - 4.50 - 1st class
4.49 - 3.50 - 2'1
3.49 - 2.50 - 2'2
2.49 - 1.50 - 3rd class
Below 1.49 - Pass.
Anything below 1.00 - Probation/Extra yr/Finished did not Graduate (FNG)
Anything below 1.00 for 2 years running - Termination of studentship

wow so a first class GPA is an A average based on those stats then, thats quite reassuring.

@Garuba

I believe the area of difference among Nigerian Universities is that some calculate the GPA as a cumulative average over the four years, while others use the final year results only or use a final-year weighted average (with a variety of possible permutations).

In the University I graduated from, the CGPA system was practised. Hence you had to perform well from the first day, as a good final year result only would not be enough to affect your final GPA significantly. Each year contributed the same percentage of the total.

Yeah thats the same system I'm in here in canada. My first year was very good, second year was a mess lol , but i did better in 3rd. Lets hope my final year will be steller.

Yep.

Gents, Well said on this issues, those that worked them self’s to the Bone while within the walls of our higher institution and came out with a 1 class or 2:1 degree got what they earned, I believe that even with the rot in the system, its still pretty hard for anyone to cheat, or do what ever other corrupt practice there is to graduate with a 1st class or 2:1 from most Universities.
But I believe the real Issue here is not between those that got Good grades and those that Got better grades, The issues is Why this discrimination of graduates with lesser qualification , why do employers of labor completely throw out graduates with lesser qualification,, this kind of employment policy no matter how justified it may be will only drives undergraduates to be more desperate, either to study harder to get a 1st class or 2:1 ,or to cheat harder using all the tricks in the book, Its natural for the greater percentage of undergraduate to chose the easy way out, and as for graduate with out that qualification it simply leave them bitter and frustrated, especially if you know you worked hard, but just wasn’t good enough for a 1st class or 2:1 .
I believe that there is a whole lot of ways to pick credible prospective employees, having a good grades is just one of them, that’s why its not a certainty that you will get a job with one of those great companies, just cus you got a 1st class or 2:1, you certainly will get more test or interviews, but getting a job takes more that good grades.

Lets bring this discuss to the point of how employers can throw the doors a bit wider and pick from the whole lot, 1st class, and every other class. That’s the issues.
So first class grades and 2:1, there no need to be nasty or high headed, and 2:2 and lesser grades there is no need to throw trivial jealousy at folks that earned what they deserve. Lets use the forum to build constructive discuss as enlightened people

Hello Larry B, I think I understand where you are coming from. Chemistry department in my school was absolutely a no-go area. Any student who graduated on time had a third class max or pass. Every other person had to spend at least two extra years. Good luck in your search.

Thanks Wills. Excellent suggestion!

Lets bring this discuss to the point of how employers can throw the doors a bit wider and pick from the whole lot, 1st class, and every other class. That’s the issues.

Excellent issue if only this were America and not Nigeria were there are no jobs! Where are the prospective employers? For the few who have job openings, how do u propose they go about choosing from over 20,000 graduates for 2 jobs without resorting to weeding out via paper qualifications?
How do they throw their doors "a bit wider" when they are already having too many candidates in the first place and have resorted to using aptitude tests to weed them out?

Nobody owes anybody any job, because jobs do not fall from the sky. Every job that exists was created by someone, so please go and create your own!

Dear, i'v got a 2.2, but am presently thriving with shell, no one could ever discriminate me coz always belivd in maself.
be you,

I have interacted with many 1st class students, from various disciplines.

One thing I can say is this: A 1st class does not come easy, even if you are from the University Of The Gutter. It is HARD to get. And though I know many GENIUSES in 2.2,2.1 and EVEN THIRD (yes indeed. said genius left the country and obtained a grade commensurate to his ability in the UK), the simple fact is that there are more geniuses in first class. There are those that are not geniuses, of course, in fact there are those that are very very slow, but a first class means you have demonstrated an ability to WORK HARD, and to beat the rigours of the school system.

Personally, I would speak out AGAINST any attempt to end discrimination in favour of them! They eschewed social life and refrained from fooling around with girls on campus. they deserve respect.


2.1's- well, coming from a Nigerian uni  wouldnt be so quick to universally endorse them like the firsts. davidylan- I'd like to mention that it is entirely possible for a girl to sleep her way to 2.1- in fact it is closer to the norm. DD, you say you only saw like 5 cases, and the lecturers got thrown out? well my counter is this- when you see one bedbug, you may squash it, but it means your matress is TEEMING with them. This you will not see for sure till you take it outside and burn it. practically EVERY girl I knew well enough in school to be on deep conversation terms with post-graduation had a story or another to tell. Most times, a girl will not tell ayone at all- it is more dangerous for her than the lecturer. And it doesnt have to be for all subjects. It could just be for a few key ones.

The girls that fall victim (or not, as the case may be) are not the dullards floundering at the bottom of the pile. There are many attractive ladies buzzing around the higher echelons of the 2.2 grade, and it is these that are usually victimized, or that offer their bodies up for a 2.1.   I know of a girl in the upper regions of 2.1 who was systematically downgraded due to non-compliance, in such a way that it was almost impossible for her to prove that she was being victimized. dd, these things happen.

Personally, I think that in the Nigerian setting, a second class degree cannot trivially be stratified. We can be sure that the firsts are model students(though some may be dumb), and the thirds are NOT model students (though some may be smart) but the 2.1's are not neccesarily superior to the 2.2's.

@darkmanzero

Wellsaid

Natural intelligence is not enough to get you a first class except you are an "exceptional" genius (notice the word exceptional). This is the reason i agree with your statement that hard-work, consistency and sacrificing some social things other students indulged in, definitely gave them an edge. CELEBRATE THEIR SUCCESS, FIRST CLASS IS NOT EASY. In life you can't eat your cake and have it.

@topic

Its logical for companies to have a defined set of criteria for screening their applicants. The only reasonable thing to do is to get some people through the door by paper qualification and then other processes will follow to determine their suitability for the Job. Here in the US, its the same. Even blue-collar jobs require a GED. Every successful business carries out a risk assessment of their processes in other to improve efficiency, eliminate waste, And give reasonable assurance (not absolute assurance) that they are in compliance with best-practice. For the advocates of not using paper qualification as the first screening criteria, i am open to suggestions. Please educate me on alternatives,

How do you sleep your way into 2-1 you have to take at least 40 classes to graduate with a degree in engineering. I say engineering cuz thats what i have always known. Any girl who slept with a prof at one time must have also used her brains in the other classes. can't bang 40 professors and get away with it.

Garuba if you have a 3.0-3.49 in a canadian/american university it is considered as a 2-1, 3.5-4 is a first class.

I think if you got a 3rd class in school you might have hard difficult circumstances and hardships or you just didn't work hard enough. when i was in university back home i only studied when i had exams the next day (once a semester) and i stayed up all night, and still flunked the whole exams. You can't cram a whole semester of engineering classes in one night. what did i do the rest of of the semester chase chicks! chasing chicks i wasn't even getting. my life wasn't harder than the other students, i just wasn't focused enough. damn it was depressing back then.

I have this idea of floating an engineering company in nigeria, i am going to give prefrence to the first class and 2-1, for the rest I am going to look at transcripts for example if they started with a pass then brought it up to 2-2, and they showed consistent improvement then i would hire them.
But the truth is that you can't really cheat your way to a 1st class/2-1 in engineering at Nigerian universities.

Zeb, you're right

You can't cheat your way to a first class- it's nearly impossible.

However you CAN cheat your way to a 2.1. Check my post above to see how this was done when I was in school, and is still done now, if what I hear from my bro is correct.

Summary: you probably can't sleep your way from a 3rd to a 2.1 (some friends in *certain universities* would beg to disagree, but I take their stories with a pinch of salt. 'Bad belle' can be powerful) BUT you can definitely sleep your way from a 2.2 to a 2.1, or be forced to use your body to maintain a foundering 2.1.

Also there was the girl I mentioned who was a strong 2.1, eventually downgraded to 2.2 over a period of 2 tortuous years. I witnessed this, but was powerless to act.

Na wa o.

I think this is complaint time for everybody. 1st Class is complaining. 2.1, 2.2 even 3rd class sef.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-14590.0.html is a complaint thread for a 3rd classer.

When will people learn to do something with their own hands? Ha ha

Na wa o

The argument the first poster is trying to put forward is not that first class or 2.1's do not merit their grades, she is trying to make a case for the 2.2's in the job market in relation to other skills and talents which are not tested in the academic field. Perfomance on a job is not all about grades.

Davidylan you were saying something about the number of people applying for a job and the need to 'weed' out the unwanted from the pool of aplicants, but that is not an excuse considering the fact that they conduct employment tests which is an avenue to 'weed' out. Shell has a minimum requirement of 2.2 when they are conducting their tests, it used to be 2.1 before but they had to include the 2.2's when they realised that some of those employed with 1st class and 2.1 didn't translate their grades into the job, they performed below expectation while many 2.2's performed better on the job. I would agree if you said the smaller companies can't bare the cost of conducting tests for a large number of applicants but what about the several large multinational companies, banks e.t.c.

Why does American conduct the GRE test? even those with first class from american universities still have to write it, and is not like the GRE tests anything you do in college.

Firstclass or 2.1 doesn't automatically translate to smartness

Wow! can't believe i'm still posting on this thread!

Why does American conduct the GRE test? even those with first class from american universities still have to write it, and is not like the GRE tests anything you do in college.

Not every American citizen is required to take the GRE to attend grad school in the USA! Infact, most do not bother to take the test at all. The tests are required for YOU who needs a visa to attend US schools because due to bad state of our education sector, it is the only way to truly evaluate your qualification to study in their schools! Even the SAT is being pushed to become optional for high school students in the US. However you from Nigeria will just have to keep sitting for the SAT if you ever dream of coming here.
Lastly, "America" does not conduct the GRE! It is conducted by a private establishment and IT IS OPTIONAL for colleges to require the test from their candidates!

Firstclass or 2.1 doesn't automatically translate to smartness

Tell that to the marines! Neither do 2'2s or 3rd class holders automatically turn out to be "much better" than those with 2'1

Davidylan you were saying something about the number of people applying for a job and the need to 'weed' out the unwanted from the pool of aplicants, but that is not an excuse considering the fact that they conduct employment tests which is an avenue to 'weed' out. Shell has a minimum requirement of 2.2 when they are conducting their tests, it used to be 2.1 before but they had to include the 2.2's when they realised that some of those employed with 1st class and 2.1 didn't translate their grades into the job, they performed below expectation while many 2.2's performed better on the job. I would agree if you said the smaller companies can't bare the cost of conducting tests for a large number of applicants but what about the several large multinational companies, banks e.t.c.

Which "several" multinational companies and banks are you talking about? How many of them are in nigeria and how many openings do they have vis a vis the thousands of graduates being churned out every yr? Most of them half baked or not baked at all!

Soon even those with "pass" degrees will be rooting to be included in the applicant pool too because it has "suddenly been discovered" that they do better than graduates with a 3rd class deg!

Yo DD, cool down.

The tone of your posts could be misinterpreted as arrogant/elitist,

Something you don't need to be. The intelligence of your posts speaks for itself. But remember many of the people in 3rd class and pass are not happy about it, and there's no need for the rest of us to be unnecesarily smug. I used to feel a sense of 'hah. when u were playing u didnt know' before, but I discovered in the long run that it doesn't pay.

If that wasnt the intent of your posts, cool, but I just thought to let you know what they sounded like. peace.