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A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by RayMcBlue(m): 11:15am On Sep 14, 2013
Appliedmaths.:



We aint arguing bro!, so you're trying to say that we should live our lives as free as we can, doing anything we want cause in the end when we die we just cease to exist? Is that it?

You couldn't have said it any better.

Truth hurts, I know, but you gotta have to make peace with it and accept it, cuz it's the reality.

1 Like

Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by thehomer: 11:27am On Sep 14, 2013
Appliedmaths.:
Since you guys like being logical and practical I would follow suit. I have a question and it goes thus. Let us assume there were two men on earth Mr A and Mr B, mr A while on earth was a good man, wasn't referred to as a good man because he went to church and believed in God but rather he was mostly referred to as a good man because he portrayed acts of love,kindness,giving and other good deeds to humanity. Now there was also Mr B the bad guy, also he wasn't mostly referred to as a bad guy because he didn't go to church nor he didn't believe in God but rather he was widely known as the shekaus(boko haram leader), the osamas, the suicide bomber, the rapist and all sorts of wicked and cruel things to humanity.
Now I ask, when mr A and mr B die where would their souls go to?. Don't tell me humans have no soul because you'll only end up making us equals with the animals( goats, dogs, snakes, monkeys) and seriously I'll laugh at that person.

1. Well seriously laughing at someone doesn't show that there are souls so you'll need a better argument in support of souls.
2. Even if there were souls, what if Mr B was simply doing God's work? What if he was merely doing what God commanded him to do? Would he still end up in this hell?
3. Even if there were souls, what makes you think that heaven and hell are the only options? Maybe the souls are all destroyed after use or recycled or something else?

Appliedmaths.:

All things being equal, a student who prepares well for an examination would pass, and those who don't would fail woefully I guess we all see that everyday; why didn't the lazy student pass the examination? It's simply because he wasn't prepared. HEAVEN and HELL is REAL, and the only way to a glorious eternal life is through JESUS CHRIST.

Patiently waiting for you 'logical' responds. Tnx!

What makes you think that there is this eternal life and that Jesus is the only way? What exactly happens in Heaven and Hell? I'd like to know before choosing one side or the other.

Appliedmaths.:

NB: We are all humans, and I'm not judging you cause deep down you're all brothers and my sisters and maybe old enough to be my parents too. grin

You're welcome to judge away as far as I'm concerned as long as you accept that I'll judge you too.

1 Like

Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by lomprico(m): 11:49am On Sep 14, 2013
This op is a dunns! He is not making any point. Give us Proof n stop reading passages from a book as proof give us hard facts.

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Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by Appliedmaths(m): 1:37pm On Sep 14, 2013
I make claims I proof it with my bible, you make claims even saying that my bible is false yet you cannot back you back your words with mere statements.

Like I earlier said, we are here to rub minds together so at least don't you have any medium you can use to back up your proof.

And most importantly, your answers on good and evil weren't convincing enough; even here on earth when men go against the law they get punished. In my own take the bible is "that book of law" that guides men into the eternal life yet you say it's false still without any proof to show, the bible made mention of so many things which are happening now on earth as I speak to you this is how I know that "that book of law" isn't just a mere thing neither was is written for gimmicks.

Most pastors and religious leaders today have driven men away from the kingdom of God as a result of their lust for wealth and fame this is true but I'm mot worried cause my bible tells me that "many would come as wolves in sheep clothings; but in the end the corn shall be separated from the shaft", the good from evil. Many have died without knowing the truth about the eternal life only to find themselves I'm a place of sorrow with no room for repentance but only a few had opportuned with a second chance.


Evil and good can never have the same ending, no! I disagree with you on that. The murderer and the goodman can never end up in the same place after earthly death; so why be moral? Are we moral because it pleases us? Oh' mind you immorality is very sweet so is sin.

Who crated the earth? Who crated day and Night? And many more things, haven't you wondered upon the stars at night how beautiful they look; perhaps whatever created these things must have a high taste for art, don't you think so?

Man was created with a "free will" that's what differentiates us from the animals, also my bible has this to say:

Deuteronomy 30:19
King James Version (KJV)
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day
against you, that I have set before you life
and death, blessing and cursing: therefore
choose life, that both thou and thy seed may
live.

The End is near, hope you've watch that american movie by seth green and james franco "this is the end" although they added a lot of controversial things to it that wasn't recorded in the bible but that goes to show that gradually people are begining to come to the understanding of this claim as you put it.



I would kindly appeal to those who throw offensive words at me please we're not fighting we're just rubbing minds like matured people.

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Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by thehomer: 3:59pm On Sep 14, 2013
Appliedmaths.:
I make claims I proof it with my bible, you make claims even saying that my bible is false yet you cannot back you back your words with mere statements.

Why don't you back up your assumption that the Bible is actually correct? If you just like quotes from books, I too have books I can quote from.

Appliedmaths.:

Like I earlier said, we are here to rub minds together so at least don't you have any medium you can use to back up your proof.

And most importantly, your answers on good and evil weren't convincing enough; even here on earth when men go against the law they get punished. In my own take the bible is "that book of law" that guides men into the eternal life yet you say it's false still without any proof to show, the bible made mention of so many things which are happening now on earth as I speak to you this is how I know that "that book of law" isn't just a mere thing neither was is written for gimmicks.

According to the Bible's laws, you're supposed to kill a child for not following their parents' beliefs. Do you accept that? How about who to enslave? Are you in support of slavery?

Appliedmaths.:

Most pastors and religious leaders today have driven men away from the kingdom of God as a result of their lust for wealth and fame this is true but I'm mot worried cause my bible tells me that "many would come as wolves in sheep clothings; but in the end the corn shall be separated from the shaft", the good from evil. Many have died without knowing the truth about the eternal life only to find themselves I'm a place of sorrow with no room for repentance but only a few had opportuned with a second chance.

Why doesn't God clearly tell us who the wolves and sheep are? Why should he wait and just torture people after they're dead?

Appliedmaths.:

Evil and good can never have the same ending, no! I disagree with you on that. The murderer and the goodman can never end up in the same place after earthly death; so why be moral? Are we moral because it pleases us? Oh' mind you immorality is very sweet so is sin.

Since immorality is so sweet, why don't you go out and kill everyone you know? Then go on to kill everyone you meet in the street? Evil and good don't have the same end but those who carry out those actions all end up dead eventually.

Appliedmaths.:

Who crated the earth? Who crated day and Night? And many more things, haven't you wondered upon the stars at night how beautiful they look; perhaps whatever created these things must have a high taste for art, don't you think so?

The earth wasn't created, night and day are the effects of the earth's rotation. The stars weren't created either. Is it the person who created them with the taste for art the same person who created the animals that cause river blindness, malaria and the ebola virus?

Appliedmaths.:

Man was created with a "free will" that's what differentiates us from the animals, also my bible has this to say:

Deuteronomy 30:19
King James Version (KJV)
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day
against you, that I have set before you life
and death, blessing and cursing: therefore
choose life, that both thou and thy seed may
live.

The Lord of the Rings has this to say:

Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many – yours not least.


Appliedmaths.:

The End is near, hope you've watch that american movie by seth green and james franco "this is the end" although they added a lot of controversial things to it that wasn't recorded in the bible but that goes to show that gradually people are begining to come to the understanding of this claim as you put it.

I would kindly appeal to those who throw offensive words at me please we're not fighting we're just rubbing minds like matured people.

Have you watched The Godfather? That was also an interesting movie. There are other classics like Scarface and To Kill a Mockingbird.

1 Like

Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by Nobody: 5:24pm On Sep 14, 2013
quivah:
I will so humbly prove to you there's no god if you promise to gladly receive it.. yes?
So ummm...u believe u evolved from a Monkey grin ?
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by cold(m): 6:43pm On Sep 14, 2013
Doc_Miss: So ummm...u believe u evolved from a Monkey grin ?
That worries you but being made out of dirt doesn't.Talking snakes doesn't,talking donkies doesn't,sleeping in a fish's belly for three days doesn't,walking on water doesn't,a virgin being impregnated by the 'Holy Ghost' doesn't.You got jokes

1 Like

Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by UyiIredia(m): 7:28pm On Sep 14, 2013
quivah:
you don't think so
Please don't forget the verse your brethren dropped


^^ you just quoted a verse from your book.. islam has other beliefs.
What if theirs is the TRUE religion after all?..don't you think you'l be dammed by a God who can kill,enslave but too jealous to have His children worship other Gods?! Dont you?no?
Menh!!!you gotta start thinking..abeg!shift
Funny thing is; na born again go full hell..
Cause if along the line they commit a lil sin after many years of righteousness and die immediately..being born again no Go cari u go Heaven..what a loving god!!.

@ bolded: I am a deist, reappraising my former faith.
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by UyiIredia(m): 7:30pm On Sep 14, 2013
Doc_Miss: So ummm...u believe u evolved from a Monkey grin ?

And b4 anyone corrects Dic_Miss' error, note tahat one can rigjyly surmise that the ape-like ancestor would have features much similar with a chimpanzee, our supposed closest evolutionary relatives.
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by Appliedmaths(m): 8:42pm On Sep 14, 2013
Biology told us that we evolved from monkeys and apes but why do we still have monkeys and apes around us?, didn't the "evolution process" affect them all?. Are humans the "smarter" species?

We can only have a fake ₦1000 note in circulation because there's an original, you can't see a fake ₦2000 note because it's not yet in existence. The mere fact that you talk about a thing is proof enough that it exist; be it true or false. If heaven and hell were not real the speculation wouldn't have been in existence in the first place.

You guys aren't still answering my solem question, "If you say there's no afterlife, then of what justification would it be to do good?, why be moral?. If we are to go by your claims then no man on earth has the right to protest against injustice after all aren't we just living a free life were anything goes?".
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by quivah(f): 8:58pm On Sep 14, 2013
Doc_Miss: So ummm...u believe u evolved from a Monkey grin ?
so uhmmmm... you believe you were made from dust?
Oops you woman,,
So you believe you were made from bones?
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by quivah(f): 9:03pm On Sep 14, 2013
Doc_Miss: So ummm...u believe u evolved from a Monkey grin ?
so uhmmmm... you believe you were made from dust?
Oops you woman,,
So you believe you were made from bones?

Uyi Iredia:

@ bolded: I am a deist, reappraising my former faith.
in??
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by MrTroll(m): 9:56pm On Sep 14, 2013
Appliedmaths.:
Biology told us that we evolved from monkeys and apes but why do we still have monkeys and apes around us?, didn't the "evolution process" affect them all?. Are humans the "smarter" species?
sheeeeit! I can believe this shocked
Honest advise OP, go get yourself informed. Go and read about evolution.

We can only have a fake ₦1000 note in circulation because there's an original, you can't see a fake ₦2000 note because it's not yet in existence. The mere fact that you talk about a thing is proof enough that it exist; be it true or false. If heaven and hell were not real the speculation wouldn't have been in existence in the first place.
so Santa Claus exists. Likewise the Flying Spaghetti Monster. And the pink unicorn. And dragons. And elves. And goblins. And 7 foot dwarves.....Gaddemit man!!! How can you be this dumb

You guys aren't still answering my solem question, "If you say there's no afterlife, then of what justification would it be to do good?, why be moral?. If we are to go by your claims then no man on earth has the right to protest against injustice after all aren't we just living a free life were anything goes?".

Are you wishing afterlife into existence?

What kind of false analogy is this? If there's no afterlife than don't protest against injustice in this life. Really? undecided
Listen man, The very fact that there's no afterlife is the main reason why you should make this one worthwhile by protesting against every form of injustice. Are you serious!!!? Are you for real man!!!? Is this thread a joke?


And to think this guy is about to become a university graduate. SMDH!!!

3 Likes

Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by Nobody: 11:39pm On Sep 14, 2013
U didn't answer my Question.

Do u Believe u evolved ?
If ur Answer is YES : How come there are still Apes ?? How come Man is still the Only Intelligent 'Animal' ? Aren't Apes evolving too. Isn't evolution a continuous process ?

If ur Answer Is No : If u weren't created from Dust...then what were u created from ?
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by Nobody: 12:31am On Sep 15, 2013
Doc_Miss: U didn't answer my Question.

Do u Believe u evolved ?
If ur Answer is YES : How come there are still Apes ?? How come Man is still the Only Intelligent 'Animal' ? Aren't Apes evolving too. Isn't evolution a continuous process ?

If ur Answer Is No : If u weren't created from Dust...then what were u created from ?
If you were created from dust......why is dust still remaining.....smdh

2 Likes

Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by MrTroll(m): 12:37am On Sep 15, 2013
And they actually think that that is a sensible question. . . If you evolved from apes why are there still apes? SMH at such foolish ignorance.

1 Like

Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by Nobody: 12:40am On Sep 15, 2013
Ghostface_killa: If you were created from dust......why is dust still remaining.....smdh
why Is dust still remaining . Listen to urslef bro

1 Like

Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by Nobody: 12:45am On Sep 15, 2013
Doc_Miss: U didn't answer my Question.

Do u Believe u evolved ?
If ur Answer is YES : How come there are still Apes ?? How come Man is still the Only Intelligent 'Animal' ? Aren't Apes evolving too. Isn't evolution a continuous process ?

If ur Answer Is No : If u weren't created from Dust...then what were u created from ?
Doc_Miss: U didn't answer my Question.

Do u Believe u evolved ?
If ur Answer is YES : How come there are still Apes ?? How come Man is still the Only Intelligent 'Animal' ? Aren't Apes evolving too. Isn't evolution a continuous process ?

If ur Answer Is No : If u weren't created from Dust...then what were u created from ?
Evolution happens in geologic time.We talking millions of years here.Man can never live long enough to observe it.
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by Nobody: 12:50am On Sep 15, 2013
Doc_Miss: why Is dust still remaining . Listen to urslef bro
Isn't that in line with your logic?
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by Nobody: 1:04am On Sep 15, 2013
OP,your reasoning is quite faulty.So the only reason why you do good is cos you don't wanna go to hell and wanna go to heaven?And once the heaven and hell crap is removed,there's no reason to be good anymore.Well guess what.... not everybody is like you.Some of us dont need the threat of god and hell to do good.Our morality is inherent,not forced or selfish.We do it for the benefit of our fellow man,to make the world a better place.We are humanists.
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by Appliedmaths(m): 1:15am On Sep 15, 2013
We were created from dust cause when we die our bodies decay and becomes dust just like the earth. And who was that guy that asked why is there still dust if we claim humans were created from dust? grin man you stole the whole show?. The earth represents dust so asking such a question may sound very ridiculous.


I'm a mathematician so I fully understand the logic behind theorems and proofs: truth is we wouldn't end this debate cause we would keep on attacking and counter attacking our selves with our various reasons and trust me I'm loving it.

When you fall asleep, can you give account of your soul?. Do you know what is happening? What is behind the mystery of creation? What is Nature? How do we come about good and evil?

Yes I can tell you that I'm my own personal opinion I find "killing" to be a good thing, what is the rationale for it being seen as evil? Why do we see it as evil?.

You call it conscience? Well to an extent you're right, so what brought about that conscience? .

I can go on and on but I'll still arrive at the same conclusion that is "if good and evil cannot be separated in this world, then there must be a place where good and evil must be separated or else man is living a wasted life".
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by Appliedmaths(m): 1:24am On Sep 15, 2013
Beretta92: OP,your reasoning is quite faulty.So the only reason why you do good is cos you don't wanna go to hell and wanna go to heaven?And once the heaven and hell crap is removed,there's no reason to be good anymore.Well guess what.... not everybody is like you.Some of us dont need the threat of god and hell to do good.Our morality is inherent,not forced or selfish.We do it for the benefit of our fellow man,to make the world a better place.We are humanists.

I think we are heading somewhere now, so what brought about that ideology? How did we know what is good and evil? Why isn't evil referred to good and good the other way round?. How would you justify the situation when an armed robber kills his innocent victim just because of let's say #20,000 and he gets away with it scot free?; has evil not triumphed over good? So how does the society balance this? . My dear I believe that this isn't the perfect world, there's a place were all form of injustice and evil would be totally wiped out and no sir! It's not on this earth.
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by Appliedmaths(m): 1:46am On Sep 15, 2013
@beretta, no sir! That's not the only reason why I do good am also a humanist too. But I'm not satisfied with the way the affairs of this world are being handled; alas! I found a solution to my problem "the bible" it comforted my beliefs and also explained to me many things I need to know, it answered the questions in my mind.

You cannot eat the corn and the shaft together; no! They must be separated.

You cannot eat the yam and it's peel together: no they must ne separated.

The cow's hairy skin is scrapped off before cutting the meat for consumption; again there was a separation.

So likewise my friends, you cannot tell me that good and evil wouldn't be separated no sir! I disagree with you on that. Furthermore I don't see that separation on this earth cause even you and I can testify ti the fact that injustice and corruption has taken over this world.

So this is my claim, and this is the reason why I say there's a place where the good would be assembled let's call it the "good place" and also there's a place where the evil doers would also be assembled let's call that "the evil place". In my quest of finding the answers to all these questions I came across "the bible"; it explained to me everything I need to know.

Am not a believer of Jesus christ today because my parents are christians, no! I have tested that religion personally via various means and it passed my tests; it answered my questions, it solved my problems.

I don't worship any pastor this is where we all get it wrong, truth be told it's only a few of them that are truly operating on the standard of God. Many of them have disgraced the name of Jesus christ but yet again the bible made mention about these things; this is how I came to the full knowledge of these things, this is my claim, this is my voice.
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by Appliedmaths(m): 1:50am On Sep 15, 2013
I reiterate "if good and evil
cannot be separated in this world, then there
must be a place where good and evil must be
separated or else man is living a wasted
life". You can quote me anywhere in the world I would gladly accept this claim.
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by wiegraf: 5:29am On Sep 15, 2013
Appliedmaths.:
I reiterate "if good and evil
cannot be separated in this world, then there
must be a place where good and evil must be
separated or else man is living a wasted
life". You can quote me anywhere in the world I would gladly accept this claim.

Cool, but it's a foo.lish, shallow claim.

Exactly why must good and evil be separated? Before that though, please, do point out one single act, any one at all, that is universally good.

You think your life wasted, why should we care? Don't expect us to indulge you.

This is another whine that assumes the universe was created special custom made for very special you....

1 Like

Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by Lilaex: 7:24am On Sep 15, 2013
quivah: are you then saying atheists are the mr B ?
Last time I check,its you religious people who portrays mr B's personality.


Mumu he's only given Xampl. LEarn to read and understand...
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by onetrack(m): 9:16am On Sep 15, 2013
I think the following example illustrates the absurdity of how to enter 'heaven' and 'hell':


A man kidnaps, molests, and kills multiple people throughout his life. On his deathbed, he accepts Jesus (or Muhammad), and therefore all his sins are forgiven and he goes straight to heaven. On the other hand, let us say that many of the people he killed did not get a chance to repent for their sins or accept Jesus and so they go to hell. So that the killer in heaven gets to watch his victims suffer in hell. Nice justice there.
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by UyiIredia(m): 9:26am On Sep 15, 2013
@ quivah: as a Christian.
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by cold(m): 10:06am On Sep 15, 2013
I am good without obligation. You're good because you fear damnation.Seriously why should i be good in this life for some kind of reward in the afterlife? Defies logic. Just be good for the sake of it. On the issue of right & wrong,like someone alluded to earlier that's why we have laws to punish those in the wrong. If we already know there's a place for wrong doers and do-gooders why bother with laws & justice in this life? Everyone should just go haywire & do as we please whilst we await the judgement of a skydaddy
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by MrTroll(m): 10:27am On Sep 15, 2013
There's no argument here folks. OP is dissatisfied with the way this world is so he grabs a book that promises him a better world elsewhere with an omni omni sky daddy and he gets to live happily ever after. . . smiley
Re: A Question For The Atheist And Those Who Don't Believe In Heaven Or Hell? by Appliedmaths(m): 10:40am On Sep 15, 2013
Mr Troll: There's no argument here folks. OP is dissatisfied with the way this world is so he grabs a book that promises him a better world elsewhere with an omni omni sky daddy and he gets to live happily ever after. . . smiley

You couldn't have said it any better.

NB: I only used the good and evil as an analogy, I didn't say I started doing good just because I want to go to heaven; no sir!. Even in our daily lives at one point or the other KARMA has dealth with us; what we did to others found it's way back to our doorsteps.

The world lacks the system to provide us with pure justice.
Let everyman hold on to his belief, the end would justify the means.

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