Although I am irreligious, I have been musing about this for a while.

Assuming I want to become religious (at least religious people have been trying to convert me for a while after I got deconverted), which one do I choose?

A Christian will say Jesus is the only way, if I don't believe in him, I am damned to hell eternally where I will burn in fire that's been fueled with sulphur and brimstone ..... OMG!!!

A Muslim will tell me Islam is the only true religion, if I don't believe in Prohpet Mohammed (pbuh) definitely I'm an infidel hell is my portion forever.......Dang!!!!

Now, I did some thinking .......

a) the two cannot be right
b) christians are either right and the muslims are wrong, or
c) muslims are right, the christians are wrong
d) both religion based their beliefs on their holy books which you cannot proof or "refute". So basically it's based on individual conviction which is nothing to go by.

Now, how do you convince me that yours is the only and the right way?

Please don't use your holy book to persuade me because that won't work, for obvious reasons.

Thank you.

After one hour nobody can justify their faith without their holy book?
hmmmmmmmm................... that says a lot.

Yes,

I once was in your thought which thus compelled me to read the whole Bible from Genesis to Revealation and I already had knowledge of the Quran as a Muslim !!!


I had to interpolate between the two .....

How ? ....... Here ......


1. Moses never condemned those prophets before him ......


2. Jesus said he has not come to condemned the old law but to Fulfil it ....the jew tagged him a liar,failed to accept him even till today and later he was crucified ..........


Despite Jesus Acknowledging moses and his messages and confirmning the prophets before moses as well as preaching what moses preached.......... The Jew still follow Moses till-date even when it has been prophesised, the coming of Jesus !!!




Mohammed acknowledged Moses and Jesus as well as those before them also confirmed the characteristics of each as well as their messages ..........also confirmed were same prophets these two confirmed and preached what they all preached which is ONE- GOD


Christains tagged Him a Liar,blashpeme Him, never accept him and till date despite the Quran dedicated a whole Chapter for Jesus and MARY(her mother) and Comforter was prophesized as coming



Then Me, I critically evaluated the central core of all these prophets and their teachings and I discovered that their emphasis is not on themselves but ''GOD'', GOD is the FOCUS and FOCAL POINT


If God is the Focus and we have three Scriptures and their respective prophets Moses,Jesus,Mohammed as at today that were never condemning one another and thus confirming and encapsulating one another .............. Then ,



Then Such Scriptures are in
Chronology and Versions where each prophets are descended down when it is time for a version to be launched.........



E.g 1.0 ,2.0, 2.0.1,2.1.1 as in Technology !!!


We all know new version usually carry the features of old-version with a plus (+), where (+) implies possibly adjustments to former procedures and an addition !!!


As such Embeded in Bible is Torah and embedded in Qoran is Both scriptures with a plus (+) !!!


It is required of all adherent to Upgrade to the latest version which is tagged latest Instructions to be abide by !!!


As such, Qoran is the only confirmed ''latest'' Instruction in the chronology of scriptures as such all those who belief in the supreme deity are hereby expected to UPGRADE to Instructions as contained therein


But it seems adherent of last doctrines are scared of being Upgraded .......!!!



Op,so........ Ur choice !!!!!

Shalom,Salam!!!

None.

scaler345: Although I am irreligious, I have been musing about this for a while.

Assuming I want to become religious (at least religious people have been trying to convert me for a while after I got deconverted), which one do I choose?

A Christian will say Jesus is the only way, if I don't believe in him, I am damned to hell eternally where I will burn in fire that's been fueled with sulphur and brimstone ..... OMG!!!

A Muslim will tell me Islam is the only true religion, if I don't believe in Prohpet Mohammed (pbuh) definitely I'm an infidel hell is my portion forever.......Dang!!!!

Now, I did some thinking .......

a) the two cannot be right
b) christians are either right and the muslims are wrong, or
c) muslims are right, the christians are wrong
d) both religion based their beliefs on their holy books which you cannot proof or "refute". So basically it's based on individual conviction which is nothing to go by.

Now, how do you convince me that yours is the only and the right way?

Please don't use your holy book to persuade me because that won't work, for obvious reasons.

Thank you.

Any Christian that is willing to save you and help you know much about God in terms of His plan for salvation and what He demands from you as a duty for serving Him must tell you the truth. Let me tell you Christianity is not for fun. Your need of conversion into walking in the light but lack of interest in the source of light is funny to me and all concerned Christians. Why will you need light and not together with the lamp? Bible is what makes Christian, anything outside Bible would be dangerous for spiritual health and close relationship with God. If you are to be converted to Christianity you cannot do without a Bible. This is what Bible says about the scriptures: 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Now you need to start the journey of living for God and being faithful to His commands. First you must know that you are a sinner that needs repentance and forgiveness of sin by God to transform you into a new life. As Christianity makes it possible, you need sound and correct teachings of God and the Gospel of Jesus Christ. After knowing this and getting set to live for God you should locate a Church where you can be settled, get rooted, and start growing fast in the knowledge and word of God. This is because the devil will be trying to make you look back instead of looking forward while you are on course of salvation. The aim of the devil is to weaken faith thru trials and temptation so as to make a believer think otherwise about God and His plan for salvation. Now friend, it is not a matter of being a Christian that is important but living a Christian life that God wants from you.

donroxy: Yes,

I once was in your thought which thus compelled me to read the whole Bible from Genesis to Revealation and I already had knowledge of the Quran as a Muslim !!!


I had to interpolate between the two .....

How ? ....... Here ......


1. Moses never condemned those prophets before him ......


2. Jesus said he has not come to condemned the old law but to Fulfil it ....the jew tagged him a liar,failed to accept him even till today and later he was crucified ..........


Despite Jesus Acknowledging moses and his messages and confirmning the prophets before moses as well as preaching what moses preached.......... The Jew still follow Moses till-date even when it has been prophesised, the coming of Jesus !!!




Mohammed acknowledged Moses and Jesus as well as those before them also confirmed the characteristics of each as well as their messages ..........also confirmed were same prophets these two confirmed and preached what they all preached which is ONE- GOD


Christains tagged Him a Liar,blashpeme Him, never accept him and till date despite the Quran dedicated a whole Chapter for Jesus and MARY(her mother) and Comforter was prophesized as coming



Then Me, I critically evaluated the central core of all these prophets and their teachings and I discovered that their emphasis is not on themselves but ''GOD'', GOD is the FOCUS and FOCAL POINT


If God is the Focus and we have three Scriptures and their respective prophets Moses,Jesus,Mohammed as at today that were never condemning one another and thus confirming and encapsulating one another .............. Then ,



Then Such Scriptures are in
Chronology and Versions where each prophets are descended down when it is time for a version to be launched.........



E.g 1.0 ,2.0, 2.0.1,2.1.1 as in Technology !!!


We all know new version usually carry the features of old-version with a plus (+), where (+) implies possibly adjustments to former procedures and an addition !!!


As such Embeded in Bible is Torah and embedded in Qoran is Both scriptures with a plus (+) !!!


It is required of all adherent to Upgrade to the latest version which is tagged latest Instructions to be abide by !!!


As such, Qoran is the only confirmed ''latest'' Instruction in the chronology of scriptures as such all those who belief in the supreme deity are hereby expected to UPGRADE to Instructions as contained therein


But it seems adherent of last doctrines are scared of being Upgraded .......!!!



Op,so........ Ur choice !!!!!

Shalom,Salam!!!

And the very same could apply to Muslims with regard to the Baha'i or Mormon scriptures, which also see themselves as updates on the monotheistic tradition after the Quran. In fact, though I'm atheist, I think that the Baha'i beliefs are far more appropriate to the modern era than the Islamic ones.

Indeed many religions claimed to be from God. But in my opinion it's not difficult to know the correct one. I'll talk about the Bible especially the NT since the discussion is about Islam and Christianity. Then i will also say something (insha Allah — God willing) about the Qur'an in my next post. I do not mean to cast aspersions on what some people held as sacred. I only hope that we can have an intellectual discourse on the topic at hand devoid of emotion. They are also free to say what they think about the Qur'an. I do hope we can learn from each other. You see you will find any religion with a Book which the believers claim to be word of God. But all of these Books (in their present forms) cannot come from God looking at the differences between them. So the possibilities are either (a) all are wrong or (b) only one is right. So how one know? Before going to any religious leader to ask them you should first do your own research. Get these books — in this case the Qur'an and the Bible and study them closely and their history. It is wrong for people to accept any religion on blind faith or only because they were born into it. People need to use their conscience and even logic at times else it could be difficult to differentiate the truth from falsehood. Again one should not look at the behaviours of all people whether Muslims or Christians as being representative of the faith they claim to follow. because not all believers represent their religions. Some do not even know anything about the religion they claim to follow yet they use it as cover to do their evil things. If you want to know about any religion get to that religion's scriptures — that Book they claim to be ‘word of God.’ Like i said i will first talk about the Bible. Ask any Christian at random to give you a copy of the bible. Then i assure you if he is a Catholic he will give you a ‘Catholic Bible’. And if he is a Protestant he will give you a ‘Protestant Bible’. Also there are other small denominations with their own Bibles (like the Jehovah’s witnesses etc). But there is only one Qur'an all over the world — exactly the same in the language it was revealed. Now talking about the two major Christian denominations.
1. Catholic Bible has 73 Books in it but the Protestant Bible has only 66 Books. And each of them claim only they have the true ‘inspired’ word of God. Which of them is correct? Who added 7 books to the Catholics’ word of God? Or who remove 7 Books from Protestants’ word of God?
2. From where do they even get this supposed ‘word of God’ especially the NT? Did Jesus wrote it or asked anybody to write it during his time? All Christians agree the Bible was written by some ‘inspired’ authors (most of them unknown) AFTER Jesus! These authors wrote different narrations about Jesus which today make up the Bible. How can we know these Books are correct since Jesus himself was not there to personally direct the authors especially since these Books do contradict each other?
3. Why are there so many contradictions, inconsistencies and even indecency in the Bible if it is the ‘word of God’? Do we attribute all these errors to God? We all know God is perfect, so why can't His perfection reflect in a Book that supposedly came from Him?
4. We all know Jesus was a Jew NOT GREEK where are the original words he spoke in Hebrew or Aramaic? Or were they lost? Why are the NT manuscripts not in Jesus’ own tongue but in Greek? Who translated his words into Greek? Were there errors in the translation or not? How can we know?
5. Lets even assume the authors of the Bible were really inspired. The next question we should ask is: do the Bible remain the same way it was since it was first written? If you are a regular follower of the developments in Christianity you will know that the Bible keeps changing even to the present day. Every new version claims to be more correct or closer to the original manuscripts than the others before it, even though the original manuscripts were lost.
6. So what is Islam's position about the Torah and the Gospel? In Islam we are taught that the Qur'an came to confirm the previous revelations sent by God especially the Torah of Moses and the Gospel of Jesus. But that all these Books were distorted or completely lost. So God send the Qur'an as His last Message to mankind to substitue them and remain till the end of the world. God did promise to preserve the Qur'an and protect it from corruption. And Alhamdulillah, today more than 1,400yrs ago since its revelation to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) it has never been tempered with. Again as Muslims we are also required to believe as words of God the other revelations — the Torah and the Gospel (in their original forms). And also to believe in the Prophets who brought them. In this case Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them both) — without this one cannot be considered a Muslim.

@ zarian5. There is a great blunder in your write up here. I don't have the time to argue for religions. The truth has been clearly stated in the Bible. It is When the truth is bitter that people start to find alternatives.

Zarian5:
. Why are there so many contradictions, inconsistencies and even indecency in the Bible if it is the ‘word of God’? Do we attribute all these errors to God? We all know God is perfect, so why can't His perfection reflect in a Book that supposedly came from Him?

6. So what is Islam's position about the Torah and the Gospel? In Islam we are taught that the Qur'an came to confirm the previous revelations sent by God especially the Torah of Moses and the Gospel of Jesus. But that all these Books were distorted or completely lost. So God send the Qur'an as His last Message to mankind to substitue them and remain till the end of the world. God did promise to preserve the Qur'an and protect it from corruption. And Alhamdulillah, today more than 1,400yrs ago since its revelation to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) it has never been tempered with. Again as Muslims we are also required to believe as words of God the other revelations — the Torah and the Gospel (in their original forms). And also to believe in the Prophets who brought them. In this case Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them both) — without this one cannot be considered a Muslim.

There are errors, contradictions, and indecency in the Quran as well. In addition, there were, at one time, 7 different versions of the Quran before Uthman ordered one version to be made and the others destroyed. Even today there is some difference in modern Qurans over the placement of the diacritical marks over the words.

In any case I have read most of the Quran, and frankly I find it to be, above all, boring and repetitive. In addition, in terms of organization, there is almost none. There is nothing about the Bible or Quran which would lead me to conclude that they are of divine origin.

onetrack:

And the very same could apply to Muslims with regard to the Baha'i or Mormon scriptures, which also see themselves as updates on the monotheistic tradition after the Quran. In fact, though I'm atheist, I think that the Baha'i beliefs are far more appropriate to the modern era than the Islamic ones.

I tell people that religion is not a commody that you go to market and be looking for the ‘latest’ one. The ‘latest’ may not necessarily the the correct one. Similarly the ‘oldest’ one may not necessarily be the correct one. What matters most is the source. Again you shouldn't choose religion just because you feel it ‘suit’ you or the time we are in. What if it is wrong? So you need to study these religions closely, how they started and all that and then compare them with the major ones. Assuming you choose Baha'i Faith or Mormon now because you feel they ‘suit’ the 21st more than the others. What if tomorrow another guy claims inspiration and started another ‘nice’ religion, will you then drop Baha'i and follow him?

Zarian5:
Assuming you choose Baha'i Faith or Mormon now because you feel they ‘suit’ the 21st more than the others. What if tomorrow another guy claims inspiration and started another ‘nice’ religion, will you then drop Baha'i and follow him?

Why not? That's how all religions start.

onetrack:

And the very same could apply to Muslims with regard to the Baha'i or Mormon scriptures, which also see themselves as updates on the monotheistic tradition after the Quran. In fact, though I'm atheist, I think that the Baha'i beliefs are far more appropriate to the modern era than the Islamic ones.

U are not an Atheist but a confused fellow cuz U shouldn't even think in affirmative towards what U considered its focal point which is God not exististing !!!


Oya back to bone of contention which is Baha'I ......


Qoran 5 vs 3 .... Stipulated God Put the fullstop @ Islam !!! U may wanto Google such !!!


Ehn ehn, Lets prove Baha'I to approve or disapprove ..............


U know, The Last version of scriptures(Torah,Bible,Qoran) usually prophesized the coming of the latest prophet therefore, is it written in Baha'i Scripture that Mohammed (SAW) prophesised His (Bahai) coming ?


E.gTorah Prophesised Jesus and The Quran stipulated Jesus already prophesized Ahmad=MoAhmad while Mohammed Prophesised Mahdi and the second coming of christ ........


Does Baha'I scripture claims Mohammed Prophesized Baha'i's coming ...... ?



This is what Mohammed Prophesised http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi ..... Kindly help us check your Bahai scripture and compare with wiki above does it correlate with Baha'I, end-time Game and Jesus second-coming.........


Kindly compare what U read in Wiki above with Baha'I's scripture U are holding ....U may be winning a soul for Baha'i Tonight!!!



It is worthy of note that there are many appendage scriptures that are attached to the Mega-Scriptures .........


Doesn Baha'I suggested Mohammed(SAW) Prophesized His coming Alongside Mahdi and Jesus who shall Help Mahdi all towards the End-Time -Game


Does Baha'i ask Us to stop observing solaat,Fasting,zakat,Hajj........... Or He Approves of them ?



Abeg, just give me a Logical answer or tell me U don't know...... Remember we aint proving God here !!!

donroxy: U are not an Atheist but a confused fellow cuz U shouldn't even think in affirmative towards what U considered its focal point which is God not exististing !!!


Oya back to bone of contention which is Baha'I ......


Qoran 5 vs 3 .... Stipulated God Put the fullstop @ Islam !!! U may wanto Google such !!!


Ehn ehn, Lets prove Baha'I to approve or disapprove ..............


U know, The Last version of scriptures(Torah,Bible,Qoran) usually prophesized the coming of the latest prophet therefore, is it written in Baha'i Scripture that Mohammed (SAW) prophesised His (Bahai) coming ?


E.gTorah Prophesised Jesus and The Quran stipulated Jesus already prophesized Ahmad=MoAhmad while Mohammed Prophesised Mahdi and the second coming of christ ........


Does Baha'I scripture claims Mohammed Prophesized Baha'i's coming ...... ?



This is what Mohammed Prophesised http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi ..... Kindly help us check your Bahai scripture and compare with wiki above does it correlate with Baha'I, end-time Game and Jesus second-coming.........


Kindly compare what U read in Wiki above with Baha'I's scripture U are holding ....U may be winning a soul for Baha'i Tonight!!!



It is worthy of note that there are many appendage scriptures that are attached to the Mega-Scriptures .........


Doesn Baha'I suggested Mohammed(SAW) Prophesized His coming Alongside Mahdi and Jesus who shall Help Mahdi all towards the End-Time -Game


Does Baha'i ask Us to stop observing solaat,Fasting,zakat,Hajj........... Or He Approves of them ?



Abeg, just give me a Logical answer or tell me U don't know...... Remember we aint proving God here !!!

I am not a Baha'i, and I am not qualified to give an answer to your questions. However, you can be sure that Muhammad's coming is not predicted in the Bible either, in spite of some extremely vague verses that some like to say refer to Muhammad. Maybe those verses refer to Baha'ullah instead and Muhammad is a false prophet!

All religion is man-made and arguing over which prophet is real is like arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

And I assure you that, yes, I am indeed an atheist. Though I do like the fact that Baha'ullah forbid all slavery, declared women to be religiously and legally equal to men, and called on all people to be environmentalists. He also allowed his followers to eat pork and to make music, and said that women no longer have to cover their hair. Not bad for someone in the mid-1800s...

onetrack:

I am not a Baha'i, and I am not qualified to give an answer to your questions. However, you can be sure that Muhammad's coming is not predicted in the Bible either, in spite of some extremely vague verses that some like to say refer to Muhammad. Maybe those verses refer to Baha'ullah instead and Muhammad is a false prophet!

All religion is man-made and arguing over which prophet is real is like arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

And I assure you that, yes, I am indeed an atheist. Though I do like the fact that Baha'ullah forbid all slavery, declared women to be religiously and legally equal to men, and called on all people to be environmentalists. He also allowed his followers to eat pork and to make music, and said that women no longer have to cover their hair. Not bad for someone in the mid-1800s...

That is why I use to call U puffpuff brain On the ''Prove the existence of God's'' thread simply because among all the atheists there U are the most dull and quickly jumped into conclusions without confirming the veracity of your claims!!!


If U make a claim ,U should be able to defend it to a logical conclusion But Atheism has rendered U towards becoming so Lazy ........


Heh, U don't even know about Baha'Ullah and U carried it into my Equations of Scripture and ProphetHood ........ Ahhh see him ooo !!!


Haba, U are the one that brought Baha'i into my equation cuz I already negated Baha'i .......

And I asked U to Justify why Baha'I should fit into my Equation in Negating my claims On Qoran and Mohammed(SAW) being the last version of Scriptural and ProphetHood- Chronological Chain !!!


I only asked U to Justify why Baha'Ullah fit into my Equation ? ...


Read the Post U quoted Once Again, U will see I wrote ''Qoran stipulated Jesus Prophesised MoAhmad'' .........Bible stipulated Jesus Prophesised ''Comforter'' ...... I didn't use Bible own cuz I already envisaged U may wanto Hook me there




Oya, Justify why Baha'I fit into my Equation ......... OneTrack really U have to double Your track else, why are U very dull among ur fellow Atheist !!!

donroxy: That is why I use to call U puffpuff brain On the ''Prove the existence of God's'' thread simply because among all the atheists there U are the most dull and quickly jumped into conclusions without confirming the veracity of your claims!!!


If U make a claim ,U should be able to defend it to a logical conclusion But Atheism has rendered U towards becoming so Lazy ........


Heh, U don't even know about Baha'Ullah and U carried it into my Equations of Scripture and ProphetHood ........ Ahhh see him ooo !!!


Haba, U are the one that brought Baha'i into my equation cuz I already negated Baha'i .......

And I asked U to Justify why Baha'I should fit into my Equation in Negating my claims On Qoran and Mohammed(SAW) being the last version of Scriptural and ProphetHood- Chronological Chain !!!


I only asked U to Justify why Baha'Ullah fit into my Equation ? ...


Read the Post U quoted Once Again, U will see I wrote ''Qoran stipulated Jesus Prophesised MoAhmad'' .........Bible stipulated Jesus Prophesised ''Comforter'' ...... I didn't use Bible own cuz I already envisaged U may wanto Hook me there




Oya, Justify why Baha'I fit into my Equation ......... OneTrack really U have to double Your track else, why are U very dull among ur fellow Atheist !!!

Maybe that "Comforter" in the Bible referred to someone else and not Muhammad. In any case it's all made up anyway, you can read into it whatever you want.

Insult me all you like, you bring zero proof for your religion apart from your own Quran, which is just an example of circular logic. Muhammad just borrowed some things from Judaism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, and Arab paganism to construct his own religion. Nothing divine about that.

Nowhere did you 'negate' Baha'ullah. The Baha'i accept Muhammad as the 'seal of the prophets' but not the last messenger, which to them is Baha'ullah.

“There are errors, contradictions, and indecency in the Quran as well.”

You should have shown examples.

“In addition, there were, at one time, 7 different versions of the Quran before Uthman ordered one version to be made and the others destroyed.”

There were never any ‘versions’ of the Qur'an. The entire Qur'an was memorized by the prophet and some of his companions. Those that compiled the Qur'an were themselves memorizers. Although all of the Qur'an was written during the prophet's time, it was first collected and compiled into one Book during the time of the first Caliph Abubakar. Apart from this one there wasn't any other complete Qur'an at that time to account for your ‘7 versions’. The minor differences in the recitation arose due the differences in Arabic dialects used at that time, but the content is the same. And while the prophet was teaching the companions some of them wrote down parts of it for their private reading some times with mistakes. This is in addition to the official copy written by the prophet's scribes which is the correct one. So Uthman did not write Qur'an in the first place. What he did was to make more copies of the original one written by Muhammad's scribe Zaid Bin Thabit and sent it do parts of the islamic world. As regard the ‘burning’. Well, what happened was that to avoid confusion Uthman ordered that those who wrote pieces should destroy it since the complete Qur'an has been compiled. Apart from the one Uthman inherited from Abubakar, there was no any other complete Qur'an then. So there were no ‘versions’ sir.

‘Even today there is some difference in modern Qurans over the placement of the diacritical marks over the words.’

Diacritical marks or no diacritical marks the Qur'an is recited EXACTLY the same all over the world! So you don't call that a difference. The Qur'an was first compiled without the marks. The Arabs had no problems reading it correctly without the marks since its their language. But most non-Arabs could not do that. So the diacritical marks were added so that all muslims globally can recite it correctly as it should be. That is not changing because people continue to recite it the way it has always been.

“In any case I have read most of the Quran, and frankly I find it to be, above all, boring and repetitive. In addition, in terms of organization, there is almost none. There is nothing about the Bible or Quran which would lead me to conclude that they are of divine origin.”

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with repetition, in as much as the repeted parts do not contradict each other. Some important messages are repeted for emphasis. Do you call that boring? Well, your last paragraph shows you are not ready for any discussion because you have already issued your final decree: “There is nothing about the Bible or Quran which would lead me to conclude that they are of divine origin.”

So what more can i say? Surah 109 ‎سورة الكافرون - Al-Kafiroon: Verse 6
لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ
To you be your Way, and to me mine.

Salam!

Zarian5: “There are errors, contradictions, and indecency in the Quran as well.”

You should have shown examples.

There were never any ‘versions’ of the Qur'an. The entire Qur'an was memorized by the prophet and some of his companions. Those that compiled the Qur'an were themselves memorizers. Although all of the Qur'an was written during the prophet's time, it was first collected and compiled into one Book during the time of the first Caliph Abubakar. Apart from this one there wasn't any other complete Qur'an at that time to account for your ‘7 versions’. The minor differences in the recitation arose due the differences in Arabic dialects used at that time, but the content is the same. And while the prophet was teaching the companions some of them wrote down parts of it for their private reading some times with mistakes. This is in addition to the official copy written by the prophet's scribes which is the correct one. So Uthman did not write Qur'an in the first place. What he did was to make more copies of the original one written by Muhammad's scribe Zaid Bin Thabit and sent it do parts of the islamic world. As regard the ‘burning’. Well, what happened was that to avoid confusion Uthman ordered that those who wrote pieces should destroy it since the complete Qur'an has been compiled. Apart from the one Uthman inherited from Abubakar, there was no any other complete Qur'an then. So there were no ‘versions’ sir.


In my opinion there is nothing wrong with repetition, in as much as the repeted parts do not contradict each other. Some important messages are repeted for emphasis. Do you call that boring? Well, your last paragraph shows you are not ready for any discussion because you have already issued your final decree: “There is nothing about the Bible or Quran which would lead me to conclude that they are of divine origin.”

So what more can i say? Surah 109 ‎سورة الكافرون - Al-Kafiroon: Verse 6
لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ
To you be your Way, and to me mine.

Salam!

Oh but there were different versions in each city, though the differences may have been minor, nonetheless they were different enough that Uthman made sure that all versions other than the official version were destroyed. Some Quranic scholars even suggest that edits can be found in the fact that in certain areas the rhyme scheme is very uneven as if a 'cut and paste' was made (I of course cannot read Arabic so who knows).

Remember that sura al-kafiroun was abrogated by sura 9 (al-tawbah) which was the second to last to be given by Muhammad:

Quran 9:29

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."

You will see that the surahs given while Muhammad was powerless in Mecca are much nicer and accommodating towards others, while as soon as he comes to power in Medina the surahs become much more aggressive and arrogant towards non-believers. While he might have started out as well-meaning, he clearly became corrupted by the power that he achieved, as evidenced by his assassinations of his critics.

onetrack:

Maybe that "Comforter" in the Bible referred to someone else and not Muhammad. In any case it's all made up anyway, you can read into it whatever you want.

Insult me all you like, you bring zero proof for your religion apart from your own Quran, which is just an example of circular logic. Muhammad just borrowed some things from Judaism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, and Arab paganism to construct his own religion. Nothing divine about that.

Nowhere did you 'negate' Baha'ullah. The Baha'i accept Muhammad as the 'seal of the prophets' but not the last messenger, which to them is Baha'ullah.

Moses made Abraham Up, Jesus made Moses Up and Mohammed made Jesus Up !!!


OneTrack, am telling U ,u need to leave LogicBoy and start following some better sensible people really !!!


U aint even sure of yourself that is why U considered the uncertainty word ''MAY BE'' as the best to qualify your expression !!!! Ahahaha ....... Taaa!!!



Now let me give U an assignment Go and find the difference between ''PROPHET'' and ''MESSENGER'' ? No be me Go tell U...... See ur myopia first-hand urself !!!


I still conclude Baha'I is indeed Negated from my chain of prophetHood since u mofo of urself even claimed Baha'I acknowledged Mohammed as the Seal of Prophets !!!


What is now ur arguement, U already give urself a good Head-Shot concerning Baha'I .....


How could Baha'I acknowledged Mohammed as the Seal of Prophet and same Baha'I still wan follow Mohammed contest Seal of Prophet



Find the difference between Prophet and messenger .......... Ehh, One track, shai

donroxy: Moses made Abraham Up, Jesus made Moses Up and Mohammed made Jesus Up !!!


OneTrack, am telling U ,u need to leave LogicBoy and start following some better sensible people really !!!


U aint even sure of yourself that is why U considered the uncertainty word ''MAY BE'' as the best to qualify your expression !!!! Ahahaha ....... Taaa!!!



Now let me give U an assignment Go and find the difference between ''PROPHET'' and ''MESSENGER'' ? No be me Go tell U...... See ur myopia first-hand urself !!!


I still conclude Baha'I is indeed Negated from my chain of prophetHood since u mofo of urself even claimed Baha'I acknowledged Mohammed as the Seal of Prophets !!!


What is now ur arguement, U already give urself a good Head-Shot concerning Baha'I .....


How could Baha'I acknowledged Mohammed as the Seal of Prophet and same Baha'I still wan follow Mohammed contest Seal of Prophet



Find the difference between Prophet and messenger .......... Ehh, One track, shai

Don't forget I'm an atheist! I don't believe any of it. They are all charlatans: Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Baha'ullah. What you theists want to argue about does not really affect me. I find it ridiculous that some god whispered into the ears of certain people called 'prophets' who then tried to convince people that they weren't hallucinating!

Besides, read the Quran sometime. It's boring, poorly organized, and portrays a vicious, temperamental god who certainly has serious mental issues and needs to get help!!

onetrack:

Don't forget I'm an atheist! I don't believe any of it. They are all charlatans: Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Baha'ullah. What you theists want to argue about does not really affect me. I find it ridiculous that some god whispered into the ears of certain people called 'prophets' who then tried to convince people that they weren't hallucinating!

Besides, read the Quran sometime. It's boring, poorly organized, and portrays a vicious, temperamental god who certainly has serious mental issues and needs to get help!!

If This is how U intended to escape from my wrath/Hook , don't worry I would allowed U as some chinese saying goeth thus ''always provide an escape route for your enemy(ies) and I already did in the beginning


Remember, I told U during the beginning of this debate that U are a confused atheist and a dull one ...... Why .......U have no reason to support Baha'I in the first instance ........ .....but in your myopic haste to crucified me,U brought your puffpuff head without confirming the veracity of your vituperation !!!


Can't U see how much my posts are more Logical and scientific than your own there were RELATIVITY in my posts but U,Onetrack U have been Jumping from ''Baha'Ullah advocate'' to ''Christian defender'' while seeking ''protection under the guise of Atheism'' when U are Hooked ahahaha !!!


ahahahahaha For a so called Atheist to defend theist,it must be a confused one !!!



Atheism is a very lazy kinda movement which stops at the absoluteness of Science where ''science is never the absolute Knowledge but Only a Logical CONCLUDED knowledge among other logical concluded knowledge in the sphere of our UNIVERSE !!!


Also, OneTrack, some axiom/theorem/conclusion/proofs in science are bound to change when there is equal change in Nature and in the next Million years,who knows what our children will tagged the scientific conclusions of today when They would have had better tools and access to aids to knowledge ''Technology'' than we do !!!

As for those Qoran Brouhaha U want to divert me to ... Create a new thread on that and lets trash it out there ........U or I may find new knowledge in such created thread ..........



So bro.......Enjoy your escape ----------->
and confirm ur way next-time ...as there may not be escape route but Final Akpako


Mr Baha'I-Atheist