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Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? - Religion - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? (19664 Views)

Who Was Abraham Refering To As Lord In Genesis 18 / Was Abraham An Arab Or A Jew? / The Quran Or The Bible,which Is God's Word? (1) (2) (3) (4)

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Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by AdamBrody1(m): 3:02am On Dec 15, 2008
Who was Abraham's father? Azar (Quran 6:74)? or Terah (Genesis 11:26)? Which is right, the Bible or the Quran?

For a neutral, this Abraham Geneology looks very confusing and either one of the holy books is telling the truth and one of them is a blatant lie OR they are both false?

2 Different fathers can't biolgical parent a Man! So which is which
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by davidylan(m): 3:06am On Dec 15, 2008
Adam Brody:

Who was Abraham's father? Azar or Terah (Quran 6:74)? Which is right, the Bible or the Quran?

For a neutral, this Abraham Geneology looks very confusing and either one of the holy books is telling the truth and one of them is a blatant lie?

2 Different fathers can't biolgical parent a Man! So which is which?

Genesis 11:26 And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.

Adam you are indeed Dumb
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by AdamBrody1(m): 3:09am On Dec 15, 2008
your very silly, i saw the error in my post and tried to correct it before i clicked the reply button, now that you have pointed it out, now answer it genius!

No wonder lagos boy said you were a bush village abeokuta local irritant!
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by AdamBrody1(m): 3:12am On Dec 15, 2008
To be objective and balanced unlike some idiots like olumuyiwa aka davidylan who is used to only one text book, i will quote the section of the quran that states Azar is Abraham's father:

6:74 (Remember) when Abraham said unto his father Azar: Takest thou idols for gods ? Lo! I see thee and thy folk in error manifest!
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by davidylan(m): 3:16am On Dec 15, 2008
Adam Brody:

your very silly, i saw the error in my post and tried to correct it before i clicked the reply button, now that you have pointed it out, now answer it genius!

No wonder lagos boy said you were a bush village abeokuta local irritant!

No problem, i'm used to being insulted by faceless cowards and goons like u . . . nothing new.

Good that you admit your error which was what i pointed out before your usual tirade of immature verbiage.

As regards the "question" . . . pls pose it to muslims. History, jewish literature and archeology correctly records abraham's father as Terah.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by davidylan(m): 3:18am On Dec 15, 2008
this thread doesnt pose a "question" as much as it questions the rationality of the person pretending to pose it.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by Chrisbenogor(m): 6:25am On Dec 15, 2008
Reads the thread and legs it out as fast as his toothpick legs can carry him
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by Chrisbenogor(m): 6:26am On Dec 15, 2008
Reads the thread and legs it out as fast as his toothpick legs can carry him
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by Dios(f): 7:28am On Dec 15, 2008
davidylan:

No problem, i'm used to being insulted by faceless cowards and goons like u . . . nothing new.

Good that you admit your error which was what i pointed out before your usual tirade of immature verbiage.

As regards the "question" . . . please pose it to muslims. History, jewish literature and archeology correctly records abraham's father as Terah.
[color=#990000][/color]

My people are well versed in jewish history but completely ignorant about theirs.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by olabowale(m): 7:58pm On Dec 15, 2008
I guess that Davidylan forgot that Ibrahim was not a Jew (a recent name for the children of israel), nor an israelite (the original collective name for the nations of people of the children of israel; jacob). Ibrahim was not a hebrew (if thats what the people of Jerusalem's of the land of palestines where during the period that he lived there), but a mesopotamian; a cultured people of the city of Ur from the modern day Iraq.

We should note that the Hebrew, the Israelite or the the Jew, none can lay claim on the truth about the name of the father of Ibrahim. His father was an idol worshipper. He did not emigrate with him, so everyone, Jews and christians are wrong about the name, but Allah by His Book, the AlQur'aan is correct. Note that Islam says Allah dictates Qur'an to Muhammad (AS) through malaika Jibril. And it was written down and memorized by the community, while Muhammad was alive.

But the Bible, OT and NT was claimed by the Jews or is it the claim of the Christians alone, that it the holy ghost that inspired the writers, to write them down, after many period of after the fact. And we see that the holy ghost have done a poor job of inspiring the writers to many different writings of the same Book.

1 Like

Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by davidylan(m): 8:12pm On Dec 15, 2008
olabowale:

I guess that Davidylan forgot that Ibrahim was not a Jew (a recent name for the children of israel), nor an israelite (the original collective name for the nations of people of the children of israel; jacob). Ibrahim was not a hebrew (if thats what the people of Jerusalem's of the land of palestines where during the period that he lived there), but a mesopotamian; a cultured people of the city of Ur from the modern day Iraq.

We should note that the Hebrew, the Israelite or the the Jew, none can lay claim on the truth about the name of the father of Ibrahim. His father was an idol worshipper. He did not emigrate with him, so everyone, Jews and christians are wrong about the name, but Allah by His Book, the AlQur'aan is correct. Note that Islam says Allah dictates Qur'an to Muhammad (AS) through malaika Jibril. And it was written down and memorized by the community, while Muhammad was alive.

But the Bible, OT and NT was claimed by the Jews or is it the claim of the Christians alone, that it the holy ghost that inspired the writers, to write them down, after many period of after the fact. And we see that the holy ghost have done a poor job of inspiring the writers to many different writings of the same Book.

bla bla bla no single evidence at all . . . alquran must be right simply because its Allah's book eh? why havent we found anything to support the existence of an Azar?
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by olabowale(m): 8:51pm On Dec 15, 2008
ask the people of Iraq, David. don't be so emotional. i know that azar is a correct name, compared to your ghost inspired entry. aburo, ma so wipe daddy nso, blah, blah, blah. lol.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by davidylan(m): 9:10pm On Dec 15, 2008
olabowale:

ask the people of Iraq, David. don't be so emotional. i know that azar is a correct name, compared to your ghost inspired entry. aburo, ma so wipe daddy nso, blah, blah, blah. lol.

daddy e funmi ni any other alternative. But e ma binu. grin

What do the people of Iraq know about Azar? Frankly nothing.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by chenry: 4:47am On Dec 19, 2008
Adam Brody , I've seen some of your other posts and it's obvious that you have a problem with Jesus. Now "If our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (2 Cor. 4:3-4).

The only message for you now is a message of salvation. For God So loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Surrender your life to Christ.

Allah (Not same as Jehovah) cannot save you, Mohammed cannot Save you only Jesus can Save you, because He is the only way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Him. He Loves you and wants you saved.

I declare today that your heart will not know peace and you will not experience peace until you surrender to Jesus, in the Mighty Name of Jesus. May God have mercy on you and SAVE YOU before you physically die, that you may not have your place in the lake of fire and brimstone.

Give your life to him today and he will give you rest. Give your life to him and He will come to dwell with you and open your eyes to receive revelation knowledge on His Word.

He has a plan and purpose for you, but you'll continue to struggle until your connect to His perfect will for your life which includes your salvation.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by AdamBrody1(m): 10:01pm On Dec 19, 2008
chenry:

Adam Brody , I've seen some of your other posts and it's obvious that you have a problem with Jesus. Now "If our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (2 Cor. 4:3-4).

The only message for you now is a message of salvation. For God So loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Surrender your life to Christ.

Allah (Not same as Jehovah) cannot save you, Mohammed cannot Save you only Jesus can Save you, because He is the only way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Him. He Loves you and wants you saved.

I declare today that your heart will not know peace and you will not experience peace until you surrender to Jesus, in the Mighty Name of Jesus. May God have mercy on you and SAVE YOU before you physically die, that you may not have your place in the lake of fire and brimstone.

Give your life to him today and he will give you rest. Give your life to him and He will come to dwell with you and open your eyes to receive revelation knowledge on His Word.

He has a plan and purpose for you, but you'll continue to struggle until your connect to His perfect will for your life which includes your salvation.

Wow so much curses and swear words from a christian that is supposed to be humble and not swear! grin

Your an example of why i would never become a christian. Too many idiots like you parading like prophets of doom and i dont mingle well with knuckle headed deluded pri***cks like you! I have 3 words for you!

GET A JOB!

Christian Wack Job! grin
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by chenry: 10:32pm On Dec 19, 2008
Adam Brody, Thats not me cursing you. It is the Natural Curse brought on the whole of mankind through your namesake (ADAM) by disobedience to God in the GARDEN OF EDEN.

The Truth is that until your surrender your life to Christ, in this world you'll not have peace. Thats probably why u jump around almost all the topics in Nairaland, trying to propagate ur own brand of religion (Atheism) which admits the existence of God anyway, it shows that there is a vacuum in your life which can only be filled by Jesus.

Until you surrender your life to Christ you'll continue to toil and labour with no fruits to show for it (this is what the scripture says). The truth is that there is no other way to avert the curse which came upon mankind but thru Jesus Christ. For Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law. Your intelligence, knowledge, human effort etc cannot avert the curse of the law.

To avert the curse of the law , Repent! I assure you the Lord is always ready to forgive you and have mercy on you. If you choose not to repent, that is your choice, but be ready to pay the price. Which is to be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone for eternity after the great judgement.

The Holy Spirit will continue to minister to your heart and convict you of your Sin. May you receive Christ very soon.

Mind you I already have a very good job, well paying and with total peace. More money than I could spend in a lifetime, all through the help of our Lord Jesus Christ. My only desire is to reach out to lost souls and the less privileged.

May God have mercy on you.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by Thegirl561: 12:43am On Dec 12, 2009
Im Christian, Yet I wont pressure people to convert to my religion. I like to think humanity has come to the realization that people will always have different beliefs and opinions. Gandhi said"There are as many religions as their are people." That pretty much sums it up. This blog is old, but I was searching online for my world religions class, In my textbook there is a verse I am to learn about. It is from a islamic reading,

"Remember when Abraham said to his father, Azar, 'How can you take idols as gods? I see that you and your people have clearly gone astray.'"

So I'm concluding that there is no definite "father", Everything is passed down and it comes down to wihch religion you choose to believe. I choose to believe Islam, or else I will fail my Final tomorrow.

Anywho, felt the need to post this.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by albadry: 2:06pm On Jun 19, 2011
Came across this while doing a search, and thought I'd chip in 2 cents from an Islamic background.

The mention of the name Azar in the Quran does not refer to the father of Ibrahim (Abraham), but a literal translation of the Quran, with a lack of understanding of the depth of the Arabic language used in the Quran, as well as overall knowledge of the religion of Islam, results in people concluding so.

The correct Islamic derivation states that Azar is an uncle of Ibrahim (Abraham) and that his biological father is a believer. The name of the father is not recorded.

The use of the word "father" in Arabic does not refer to the biological father here, as the name was explicitly mentioned after the word father - which means this is referring to an uncle of some sort. If he was the father, then the Quran would always say "Ibrahim's father", but it highlighted out the name in one instance (Ibrahim's father Azar) to give us the conclusion that Azar, the idol maker, is not Ibrahim's bioligical father. Also, prophetic biography (hadith) confirms that the lineage of the prophet Mohammed (pbuh) is pure, and therefore there could not have been any non-believers in the family chain that gave birth to him. From Adam to his father, Abdullah, the family line worships only 1 God - the true creator.

As to whether or not the biblical name is correct - that I cannot comment on as the correctness of these texts is not verified from my point of view (although we Muslims believe in the text that was revealed to Jesus and Moses, peace and blessings be upon them both, we know that the current version of the text is not what it was when it was first revealed).

Hope you find this info helpful.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by seyibrown(f): 9:39pm On Jun 19, 2011
^^^ So, 'the bible corrupting team' thought it was necesary to replace the name of Abraham's father with another name, not knowing that Allah would expose the real name to Mohammed! Now, to what end was the falsification done?     And why does the Bible's record tally with history and Jewish records? Did they also fabricate a new name for Abraham's father?
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by albadry: 6:02am On Jun 20, 2011
I'm not sure if you read my reply at all. I do not appreciate your mockery also because I did not mock your beliefs.

The Quran does not reveal the name of Abraham's father, but it reveals that the idol maker in question here (Azar) was not his father. The biblical name Terah could be his name, but it was not revealed in the Quran hence why I could not comment.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by Sweetnecta: 12:38pm On Jun 20, 2011
@albadry; the name of the father of Ibrahim [as] is Azar, unless the name of the father of Yusuf [as] is not Yaquub [as], Abati, a word meaning my Father was used by both Ibrahim and Yusuf to address a male authority in their family. In the case of Yususf, it was addressed to his father Yusuf; no one I know will in good conscience say Jacob is not the father of Yusuf.

If one has knowledge of even basic Arabic language, one would unequivocally and unconditionally confirm that the term used for father in the Arabic language is ‘Abb’; and the term used for uncle is ‘Amm’!


Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 6 Anaam verse 74:

74 Lo! Ibraheem said to his ‘Abi’ (father) Azar: "Takest thou idols for gods? For I see thee and thy people in manifest error!"

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 37 Surah Saafaat verses 83-85:

83 Verily among those who followed his Way was Ibraheem.

84 Behold! He approached his Lord with a sound heart.

85 Behold! He (Ibraheem (a.s.)) said to his ‘Abi’ (father) and to his people "What is that which ye worship?

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 21 Surah Anbiyaa verses 51-52:

51 We bestowed aforetime on Ibraheem his rectitude of conduct and well were We acquainted with him.

52 Behold! He (Ibraheem (a.s.)) said to his ‘Abi’ (father) and his people "What are these images to which ye are (so assiduously) devoted?"

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 43 Surah Zukhruf verses 26-27:

26 Behold! Ibraheem said to his ‘Abi’ (father) and his people: "I do indeed clear myself of what ye worship:

27 (I worship) only Him Who made me and He will certainly guide me."

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 19 Surah Maryam verses 41-46:

41 Also mention in the Book (the story of) Ibraheem: he was a man of Truth, a Prophet.

42 Behold! He (Ibraheem (a.s.)) said to his ‘Abi’ (father): "’Yaa Abati’ (O my father)! Why worship that which hears not and sees not, and can profit thee nothing?

43 ‘Yaa Abati’ (O my father)! To me hath come knowledge which hath not reached thee: so follow me: I will guide thee to a Way that is even and straight.

44 ‘Yaa Abati’ (O my father)! Serve not the Shaytaan: for the Shaytaan is a rebel against (Allah) Most Gracious.

45 ‘Yaa Abati’ (O my father)! I fear lest a Penalty afflict thee from (Allah) Most Gracious so that thou become to the Shaytaan, a friend."

46 (The father) replied: "Dost thou hate my gods O Ibraheem? If thou forbear not I will indeed stone thee: now get away from me for a good long while!"

Respected sister, in light of the above quoted Guidance of the Glorious Quran, Azar indeed was the father of Hadrat Ibraheem (a.s.) and not his uncle.

Even after being presented with such overwhelming evidence from the Very Book of Allah itself, there are some misguided sects and people who hold an ulterior agenda, and they claim that Azar was not the father, but rather the uncle of Prophet Ibraheem (a.s.).

Perhaps from the below quoted Verse of Surah Yusuf, they would like to deduce that Prophet Yaqoob (a.s.) was not the ‘Abb’ (father) but rather the uncle of Prophet Yusuf (a.s.)

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 12 Surah Yusuf verse 4:

4 Behold Yusuf said to his ‘Abi’ (father:ie. Prophet Yaqoob (a.s.)): "’Yaa Abati’ (O my father)! I did see eleven stars and the sun and the moon: I saw them prostrate themselves to me."





@Seyibrown; Many issues that the Bible is wrong about or completely say nothing on are specifically answered by the Quran; examples are below

it is sad to assume that after the flood of Noah, when people were reconstituted, that in many centuries or millenniums after it, it is the tower of babel event that brought about the breakup of the single language to many languages, all of them new to those people of babel because the God Who created everything was afraid of the creatures, the remnants what was wiped out in the flood. the same God was able to punish every evil group later [pharaoh in the time of Moses is a good example]. why was God afraid in time of babel?

read this against the action and reaction of pharaoh and hs chief builder, hamaan who were trying to mock Moses, instead they mock themselves,. pharaoh arrogantly says to hamaan to build a tall tower so that he can reach heavens to see the God that Moses is talking about. though pharaoh had seen how limited the effort of humans to build structures to a certain height in the examples of the pyramid of base versus height. he answered himself with a deceitful explanation that he was sure that there will not be anyone to see, which the evil hamaan agreed to instead of being sincere that it is not possible to build to reach heavens. this is an event that is indicated in the Quran and we can see from our own thinking that this situation is not far fetched in life of arrogant ruler and those who are supporting his evil agenda. we see how hitler was supported in his madness by equally mad people.

hamaan, the engineer, some people claim that since the bible does not record him, he doesn't exist. the bible failed to point out that pharaoh perished in the flood of Moses and the body of pharaoh was recovered and preserved. but the Quran says his body was saved; so that people of Israel can see it at that time and definitely know that their enemy was killed. the body also is being displayed for generations of people to see the end of evil. but hamaan's name has been discovered in ancient egyptian writing as an engineer coinciding with the period before the flood. the bible believers forget that another source may be more comprehensive and precise in its detail.

another comforter is a good case study considering all that the another comforter who was called spirit, like all messengers can be called prophets, and jesus was called messiah. obviously, the another comforter was to hear and speak. only human can hear from God and speak to humans in human language[s]. even angel becomes physical human in appearance in order to speak to man. a ghostly spirit which is not seen don't talk to humans so that humans hear him, unless those who are mad in their heads hear voices of the unseen; ghost in this case.


and as for Azar, if the jews who wrote the bible lied about Abraham intimate morality and say he was immoral, called Ishmael a wild Bottom, yet God helped him that he never was violent in his entire life, i will tend to wonder what name is possible for people of Ur of antiquity in present day iraq could be; Terah or Azar. i will not accept a thing from the jews who deceive people, lie against prophets and make themselves to a super people regardless of f they are individually right or not right with God. can paradise be offered to a person just because of his tribe while other have greater requirements, otherwise by tribe they are condemned?
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by albadry: 1:06pm On Jun 20, 2011
Dear sweetnecta, I appreciate your quotations from the Quran, but I received my knowledge from a well known authority, not a "deviant sect". My authority comes from the noble Azhar in Egypt.

I will provide you a counter argument by referring you to Surat Albaqaraa in the holy Quran (chapter 2, verse 133) where Allah almight says:


Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy Allah and the Allah of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah. To Him we bow (in Islam)."


Note that the mention of "thy fathers" include Isma'il here, when Isma'il peace be upon him is clearly not their father or the father of Jacob. The Arabic in here clearly demonstrates the ability to use the term "father" to someone who is not a biological father. In fact, the prophet peace and blessings be upon him used the term "father" to describe his uncle Abu Talib. Your references to Abb and Amm are correct, and they are the commonly used words. However, in the context of Islamic studies, we do not take our explanations from the "common language", as you know the Quran has much deeper meanings, and so our scholars extract these meanings by having a more complete picture of our religion, not just taking the literal translation.

I do agree with you that there are historical scholars who have taken your stance on the matter - they are not the majority, but they are more popular these days thanks to the financial backing of Saudi Arabia and the sect they promote.

Anyway, there is not much benefit in us arguing over this, as the name of Ibrahim's father and whether or not Azar was the father does not really gain us much benefit in our religion. But I just wanted to shed a different light to the discussion here.

God knows best.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by Sweetnecta: 9:12pm On Jun 20, 2011
^^^^^^^^^^^^ my brother, as ssalaamualaykum wa rahmatUllah.

[Quote]« #21 on: Today at 01:06:43 PM »

Dear sweetnecta, I appreciate your quotations from the Quran, but I received my knowledge from a well known authority, not a "deviant sect". My authority comes from the noble Azhar in Egypt.[/Quote]this 'noble Azhar in Egypt' is inferior to Quran as the Absolute Authority.




[Quote]I will provide you a counter argument by referring you to Surat Albaqaraa in the holy Quran (chapter 2, verse 133) where Allah Almighty says:


Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy Allah and the Allah of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah. To Him we bow (in Islam)."[/Quote]there is no 'of' before Ibrahim [as] to indicate the father of Ibrahim was a believer. rather, the verse starts of mentioning paternal believers of the children of Yaquub [as] to Yaquub their father who asked them to confirm to him, as a form of 'oath taking' who they will worship; they started off with Ibrahim [who is the father of faith. not the son of the father of faith;


the sons of the father of faith were Ismail, Isiaqa], and they immediately mention their father's Uncle; Ismail as a man worshiping his own father Ibrahim before they mentioned his younger brother, Isiaq who was their grandfather. the mentioning of Ismail in this position to me points to many things which kill the popular opinion of the jews and christians contradicting ther own books; toral of Moses [as] and the bible, since injil/gospel was quite on Ismail [as].


we can deduce that Ishmael was well known to his grand nephews, either physically or by words of mouth. what they know of his disqualified him from being a vagabonds, a wild Bottom which the bible had predicted. note that they did not mention their uncle, their father's older brother. in other words, what they know of Ishmael were that he was believer, not different in faith from great grandfather, and grandfather who he was mentioned in sandwiching position.




[Quote]Note that the mention of "thy fathers" include Isma'il here, when Isma'il peace be upon him is clearly not their father or the father of Jacob. The Arabic in here clearly demonstrates the ability to use the term "father" to someone who is not a biological father. In fact, the prophet peace and blessings be upon him used the term "father" to describe his uncle Abu Talib. Your references to Abb and Amm are correct, and they are the commonly used words. However, in the context of Islamic studies, we do not take our explanations from the "common language", as you know the Quran has much deeper meanings, and so our scholars extract these meanings by having a more complete picture of our religion, not just taking the literal translation.[/Quote]scholarship in Islam is foremost based on Quran, then the supplementary authentic Sunnah and Hadith since they are means of knowing what the full meaning of Quran.


if your argument supporting your position as uncle of Ibrahim instead of father, is what the prophet [as] said of abi talib, you must also know that in the context of islamic studies, which Quran is the Highest material of that islamic studies, we can not water down what Quran says by taking our explanation to create doubts from the common language by which the prophet might have called Abi Talib father, while we know that late Abdullah was his [as] father, and we do not have any other person we can possibly call the father of Ibrahim, except what the Quran says.
i want you to pay attention to those men that can't be married by a potential bride; grandfather is not mentioned, but we assume he is one of them.


but father and uncle who are. but in above relationship of Ibrahim with the children of Yaquub in the matter of religion; he was not their father, or their grandfather, but their great grandfather. we will see that they would have described Ismail as grand uncle, and Isiaqa as grandfather. rather they called them all fathers as part of ascendants in monotheistic worshipers.




[Quote]I do agree with you that there are historical scholars who have taken your stance on the matter - they are not the majority, but they are more popular these days thanks to the financial backing of Saudi Arabia and the sect they promote.[/Quote]if i have to agree with anyone, it is easier when the matter to agree with is direct and obvious. No one should say that a prophet cant come from a family or sired by a disbeliever. Sayyidina Lut [as] was a nephew of Ibrahim. we can't possibly say that Lut's father was a believer who refused to migrate from the community of idolaters, even though his brother left and was followed by his own son. we can't say that prophets can't produce disbelievers ether. Noah [as] produced a disbeliever. imagine the horde of disbeliever in the children of Israel, today?
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by LagosShia: 9:53pm On Jun 20, 2011
we muslims should be careful in responding to missionary propaganda and make sure that we understand our religion first and very well.

the missionary is asking who is Abraham's father:Azar (Quran) or Terah (bible)?

the missionary does not know that Azar mentioned in the Quran is not the biological father of Abraham.the word used in the Quran to describe Azar can also be interpreted as "guardian" of Abraham.

this is actually a very contentious issue because Shia-Muslims in particular believe that no prophet is born out of the loin of a kaffir.all prophets from Adam were born out of believing biological fathers.this also applies to the imams starting with Imam Ali (as).sunnis hold that Abu Talib the father of Imam Ali and uncle of the Prophet Muhammad died in disbelief.the shia on the other hand hold that Abu Talib who helped and protected the Prophet at a time Islam and the Prophet were attacked,could not have died in disbelief but rather embraced islam wholeheartedly before his death.

to conclude,Azar was not the father of Abraham but his guardian who was an unbeliever.

you can further read about these issues in length,here:


http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter5a/8.html

and here in the second sub-topic:

http://www.al-islam.org/shiism/17.htm
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by seyibrown(f): 11:16pm On Jun 20, 2011
albadry:

I'm not sure if you read my reply at all. I do not appreciate your mockery also because I did not mock your beliefs.

The Quran does not reveal the name of Abraham's father, but it reveals that the idol maker in question here (Azar) was not his father. The biblical name Terah could be his name, but it was not revealed in the Quran hence why I could not comment.

My post was not directed mainly at your post! My post takes in to account several posits by Sweetnecta, Olabowale, vedaxcool (and co) of unfounded allegations about the Bible having been corrupted. They wield the Bible to support fallacious claims when it suits them, and then they put the Bible down as being corrupt THE REST of the time! No offence was intended!

It's nice to have you join NL, and I look forward to more educating posts from you! Your posts so far already tell me that you will stand out as an one who has an indepth knowledge of Islam and is able to contribute intelligently to topics in this section! Welcome once again!  smiley Be warned: The religious section of NL suffereth 'violence', and the 'violent' take it by force!  grin  grin Bros, Alagbara lo n duro nibi o!  grin ( and by violence here, I mean passion for or against God and his commandments)! God bless you!

As a welcoming present, I will one of these days ask you to educate us on the concept of 'AL-TAQIYAH' , its importance in Islam, and its relevance in interaction with - and particularly in explaining Islam to - non-muslims! Again, the God of all wisdom bless you!
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by Sweetnecta: 2:59am On Jun 21, 2011
@Lagosshia; « #23 on: Yesterday at 09:53:47 PM »
[Quote]we muslims should be careful in responding to missionary propaganda and make sure that we understand our religion first and very well.

the missionary is asking who is Abraham's father:Azar (Quran) or Terah (bible)?

the missionary does not know that Azar mentioned in the Quran is not the biological father of Abraham.the word used in the Quran to describe Azar can also be interpreted as "guardian" of Abraham.

this is actually a very contentious issue because Shia-Muslims in particular believe that no prophet is born out of the loin of a kaffir.all prophets from Adam were born out of believing biological fathers.this also applies to the imams starting with Imam Ali (as).sunnis hold that Abu Talib the father of Imam Ali and uncle of the Prophet Muhammad died in disbelief.the shia on the other hand hold that Abu Talib who helped and protected the Prophet at a time Islam and the Prophet were attacked,could not have died in disbelief but rather embraced islam wholeheartedly before his death.

to conclude,Azar was not the father of Abraham but his guardian who was an unbeliever.

you can further read about these issues in length,here:


http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter5a/8.html

and here in the second sub-topic:

http://www.al-islam.org/shiism/17.htm[/Quote]which one of the two is more of the responsibility of a father; his father or his son? it is also known that Adam [as] had no father. so was Jesus [as]. now of those who had fathers, who was the father of Lut [as], a nephew of Ibrahim [as]? tell me his father's name and provide us with his religion, though you disagree with the several Quranic verses that used Abati and Aba for the person who Ibrahim addressed, to the father of Ibrahim, but will not disagree with how the children of Yaquub [as] addressed their father, and how Yusuf [as] addressed his father telling him about his dream and when they finally prostrated their faces to him.

oh. and Nuh [as] had a disbeliever for a son. so was a disbeliever for a wife, too. and it didn't stop there; so was Lut. and you never stop saying Muhammad [as] married hypocrites and surrounded himself with many [ra]. hypocrisy is worse than outright disbelief, you know.




@seyibrown (f); « #24 on: Yesterday at 11:16:08 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: albadry on Yesterday at 06:02:52 AM
I'm not sure if you read my reply at all. I do not appreciate your mockery also because I did not mock your beliefs.

The Quran does not reveal the name of Abraham's father, but it reveals that the idol maker in question here (Azar) was not his father. The biblical name Terah could be his name, but it was not revealed in the Quran hence why I could not comment.

My post was not directed mainly at your post! My post takes in to account several posits by Sweetnecta, Olabowale, vedaxcool (and co) of unfounded allegations about the Bible having been corrupted. They wield the Bible to support fallacious claims when it suits them, and then they put the Bible down as being corrupt THE REST of the time! No offence was intended![/Quote]since when did you begin to eliminate the verse from Jeremiah that talks about the swift pen of the scribes from the Bible? i think when you began the importation of Trinity. right? and no muslim, including me use the bible to support the Quran, but the other way around; after all we accept God being the Sole Lord Whose Proper Name is Allah. do you agree with this and does your Bible accepts it? should i accept what the Bible says when Quran which is the book of my sole belief rejects?




[Quote]It's nice to have you join NL, and I look forward to more educating posts from you! Your posts so far already tell me that you will stand out as an one who has an indepth knowledge of Islam and is able to contribute intelligently to topics in this section! Welcome once again! Smiley Be warned: The religious section of NL suffereth 'violence', and the 'violent' take it by force! Grin Grin Bros, Alagbara lo n duro nibi o! Grin ( and by violence here, I mean passion for or against God and his commandments)! God bless you!

As a welcoming present, I will one of these days ask you to educate us on the concept of 'AL-TAQIYAH' , its importance in Islam, and its relevance in interaction with - and particularly in explaining Islam to - non-muslims! Again, the God of all wisdom bless you![/Quote]if this is your present, then your heart must be sincere because you have put forward a deceitful method. by the way, a friend sad to me today that Muhammad [as] was a christian before they introduced trinity, his reason for leaving christianity. i laughed so hard that the man got annoyed. i didn't tell the dude that with such passion that Muhammad [as] stay the course preaching Islam and eliminating any and all gods, i wonder what brand of christianity that was being practiced that he was a member of? christians with their games.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by PastorAIO: 5:37am On Jun 21, 2011
How many people here have actually read the koran in it's original language. How many of you CAN read the koran in it's original arabic. ie. Fusat. Who can claim to understand fusat? Are you all not on translations?

I laugh in mongolian.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by wetu: 8:50am On Jun 21, 2011
Christians should believe the biblical account always. If there's any other book that contradicts the Bible, we know that book is wrong.

My advice to Muslims also is to stay clear of the Bible. It doesn't agree with their faith at all, even the Old Testament:

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.


The Bible is a painful book to read for someone who is not a Christian. Stay clear of it unless you want to know the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE.

Hallelujah!
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by Sweetnecta: 10:07am On Jun 21, 2011
@pastoraio; « #26 on: Today at 05:37:06 AM »

[Quote]How many people here have actually read the koran in it's original language. How many of you CAN read the koran in it's original arabic. ie. Fusat. Who can claim to understand fusat? Are you all not on translations?

I laugh in mongolian.[/Quote]your mongolian laugh is inferior to your abule language laugh. now if you can do that that will be something; your trademark and we should bottle it and sell it to those who think you are the flavor of the week.

unfortunately for your ignorant mind, Quran is very easy to learn and read and memorize. suratul Fatiha is called the often repeated among other names.

the more you read the Quran, often, the easier it is on the tongue and the greater the ability to remember. it shows how little you know. may God expand your vista.

many on naraland read Quran in Fusat, daily apart from what they read in the 5 salat. you need to keep your ignorance in your circle. and whenever you are man enough to get off your high horse of nothingness, come to islamic session; Allah Will turn your heart to understanding.

there are people like lagosboy, and others who will be the carrier of the work of dawah to you. you will allowed to ask any and all questions.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by PastorAIO: 10:12am On Jun 21, 2011
^^^  So you do not understand Fusat, thank you.  I know that if you did you would not waste time to confirm it and even give us demonstration here.  So here you are prancing around over a book that you did not read, all you've read are translations and all you know is what others have told you about it. 

(after laughing in mongolian I p'ose in korean)

p'ose is hiss in abule english.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by Sweetnecta: 11:02am On Jun 21, 2011
^^^^^^^^^^^ in islam if you see a person claiming high scholarship, he is full of it.

owe ni mo pa fun e yen, if you are truly yoruba, you will know it.


if you come on islamic section, lagosboy who i recommend will say that he knows nothing. he will not be showing off. we have a thread warning about showing off right now.

come over and stop being a local hero among the christians and anti religion groups.
Re: Who Was Abraham's Father? Azar (Quran) Or Terah (Bible)? Which Is Right? by vedaxcool(m): 4:34pm On Jun 21, 2011
wetu:

Christians should believe the biblical account always. If there's any other book that contradicts the Bible, we know that book is wrong.

My advice to Muslims also is to stay clear of the Bible. It doesn't agree with their faith at all, even the Old Testament:

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.


The Bible is a painful book to read for someone who is not a Christian. Stay clear of it unless you want to know the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE.

Hallelujah!

Halleluyah, I have been "converted" once again, please show me where in the entire New testament did anybody ever call Jesus Immanuel, show me if ye are truthful, if you can not show does it prove the heavy delusion you and your Christian brethren live under? indeed the bible is a "painful" book, with good stories, horror stories, molest stories and even incestrous stories laying side by side, no wonder the practice of Inbreeding is alarmingly high in the valleys of Christendom. Indeed i takes guts and courage to survive the evils tales in the bible, flee if you must, flee if your heart is soft, flee if your soul is weak and please flee the filt stained bible.

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