The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach - Religion - Nairaland
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| The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Tgirl4real(f): 1:23pm On Sep 30, 2013 |
I would like to share this verses of scriptures with us today. I am not after whether it was written to Jews or gentiles or which ever dispensation as some would say. lol. It is the word of God and if you are a child of God it applies to you. Revelations 3: 4-22 "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou were cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy unclothedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." I got angry reading an old thread I contributed to this morning. The thread is about grace Vs obeying God's law. What is it with the gospel of grace that is unable to save anyone that we preach all around today? Why do we take one part and leave the other part that involves we living up to what we profess? You claim God has saved...how do we know God has saved you if we don't see fruits of righteousness at work in you? Reading scriptures this morning, I see a lot of contradictions between scriptures and what we preach out there. Many are expecting a Jesus that will rub their heads and give them bear hugs when he appears. Hey! wake up! Judgement is at hand! Don't let anyone deceive you. Search your heart and be true to what you believe. James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." 37 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Rexphobia(m): 1:29pm On Sep 30, 2013 |
What's your definition of grace? |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Rhymeyjohn: 2:59pm On Sep 30, 2013 |
According to Pastor W.F Kumuyi, Grace is simlply G.od's R.iches A.t Christ's E.xpense (GRACE). Its simplt an undeserved offer by God fufilled in His Son Jesus. You dont deserve it, so accept it the way you are but after accepting this grace, it demands something from you Work out your salvation with fear and trembling Grace dosent give a believer permissive with sin. God bless us 33 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by alexleo(m): 6:47pm On Sep 30, 2013 |
I ve always disagreed with people who wants us to believe that once we are saved we cannot be regarded as sinners again even if we sin. They tell us that when someone in grace sins, it is no more counted for him. A lot of misleading teachings here that one should be careful not to fall into. These are the last days and we are warned about false prophets. Pls let's be very careful and prayerful. God hates sin till eternity. 29 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Alwaystrue(f): 7:02pm On Sep 30, 2013 |
Many only see grace as 'saving', forgeting that there is the 'teaching' grace. We have a great tutor now who expects a greater level of obedience from the heart because that is where the intent, motive resides and God will judge the heart. And that is why to truly be in Christ means we express the God kind of love which will help us both to will and do according to God's will. Besides as soldiers for Christ in an evil and lawless world we really need His grace to see us through. Hebrews 6:1 says we should move on to perfection not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works. 8 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Tgirl4real(f): 8:25pm On Sep 30, 2013 |
alexleo: I ve always disagreed with people who wants us to believe that once we are saved we cannot be regarded as sinners again even if we sin. They tell us that when someone in grace sins, it is no more counted for him. A lot of misleading teachings here that one should be careful not to fall into. These are the last days and we are warned about false prophets. Pls let's be very careful and prayerful. God hates sin till eternity. True talk! 3 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by truthislight: 4:47am On Oct 01, 2013 |
"And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. " (Revelation 2:18-23). "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." (Revelation 2:26-29). 5 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Goshen360(m): 5:33am On Oct 01, 2013 |
@ Tgirl, Is there a message or teaching called the Gospel of Grace? If there is, What is your understanding of the Gospel of Grace? What are the distorted message of Grace you talking about and what thread you referring to? I have a feelings you are still drinking 'milk' of the word.  1 Like |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by bizmahn: 7:44am On Oct 01, 2013 |
@ OP, Praise God for you.One out of so many that suddenly began to see the truth of the perverted grace gospel being paraded on this forum.Grace preachers on this forum on the one hand condemn little things like tithe & offerings & yet they uphold a gospel that allows you to smoke,drink & allow all manner of vices in the hope that once you are saved grace does the rest & you have nothing more to do.End time damnable heresy. 8 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Alwaystrue(f): 7:46am On Oct 01, 2013 |
Happy Independence day to all. @truthislight, Thanks for scriptures. Those who truly want to learn and understand overcoming to the end will read the words of Jesus to the churches from Rev. 2 and realise the grace God gave us is not for trampling at all....yes he has saved us but just as someone has been pardoned from death, he seeks to ensure by teaching of grace and enduring the contradiction of sinners to remain in line with the will of God. No wonder Peter said: 2 Peter 3:15-16 15 And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him— 16 speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction. 4 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Candour(m): 8:32am On Oct 01, 2013 |
Gal 5:1 'Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage' We are indeed free from the yoke and bondage of the law and its ordinances. They couldn't make us righteous anyway. God poured his grace on us and gave us the gift of his own righteousness, not for us to start engaging in licentiousness or wanton living, but that we should henceforth overflow in good works. Eph 2:10 'For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them' Good works or Godly living must become our lifestyle if we've truly being saved by Christ. We are not under rules and regulations on paper but his Spirit leads us daily into all righteousness. A tree must sprout the fruit of the seed that grew it, so also if the seed if God has been planted in us, it must bring forth the fruits of the Spirit. Our liberty is for service Gal 5:13 'For brethren, ye have been called unto liberty: only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another' Grace is not licence to serve the flesh 10 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Tgirl4real(f): 10:03am On Oct 01, 2013 |
Goshen360: @ Tgirl, debosky:
2 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Goshen360(m): 11:52am On Oct 01, 2013 |
@ Tgirl, I can remember my questions are like four. I think you only 'pointed' to one of the questions, do didn't answer it. 1. Is there a message or teaching called the Gospel of Grace? If there is, 2. What is your understanding of this Gospel of Grace? What are the distorted message of Grace you talking about and what thread you referring to? I have a feelings you are still drinking 'milk' of the word. You quote to what you and Debo was discussing, I believe is a reference to 'what are the distorted message of Grace'? I tried tracking your post and I found the thread. First, I do not believe Grace gospel should be taught to young Christians as debosky said but that still doesn't mean debosky's statement is a good example of 'distorted message of Grace' I asked you to provide. I believe from scriptures, Grace is for mature Christians. I will want to follow up this thread to present the 'meat' of the word, if you don't mind. I believe some teachers of the word will teach a perverted gospel of Grace but also, some will teach grace as taught in the word of God BUT the listeners will abuse or misunderstand. 1, Because not all audience 'understand or comprehend' a message same way. 2, Some young audience will abuse what they hear. When any Christian understand the Gospel of Grace, he will she draw men unto Christ by his\her lifestyle. Kindly answer those questions and let's see how we go on from there. 3 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Ubenedictus(m): 1:01pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
i am not sure i have time to discuss the distorted gospel of absolute grace. But if you need a long discussion about it then go to a christian library and read up calvinism, go to the internet and read up 'the sixth section of the council of trenth' after that read up on pelaguis. While doing that keep a bible near. You'll need it. I'll even take a leap and predict that goshen will give us a form of calvinism. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Tgirl4real(f): 1:25pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
Goshen, the intent of this thread is clear from d OP. It's a call to repentance. A call to check ourselves and what we truly believe. I didn't post my response to Debosky to say he is preaching a distorted gospel of grace, we were having a discussion, so you will do well not to conclude hastily. I really don't fancy your style of throwing questions that can be easily deduced at me, but I would indulge u. To answer your question briefly, there is nothing like the gospel of grace. The ONLY gospel I know preached from Gen to Rev is the message of God's kingdom which can be simply put as: "repent for d kingdom of God is at hand" John 3:16 sums it up. 13 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Tgirl4real(f): 1:30pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
Ubenedictus: i am not sure i have time to discuss the distorted gospel of absolute grace. But if you need a long discussion about it then go to a christian library and read up calvinism, go to the internet and read up 'the sixth section of the council of trenth' after that read up on pelaguis. lol I don't think I have time too. The message is clear. Grace is not sum'n we should build the entire scriptures on. It shows God's mercy, but what about the wrath of God? The grace we have received has called us to repentance and to live a life pleasing unto God. 3 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Alwaystrue(f): 2:28pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
There is a scripture that says the gospel was preached beforehand to Abraham and this same gospel was preached to the Israelites as it was preached to us but the Israelites who heard it did not mix it with Faith. Jesus too said He has come to preach the goodnews. All these are in the bible. Jesus preached repentance and he gave us the spirit of the laws and prophets of old by delivering His testament while on earth. His blood was to endorse the new testament. He brought grace and truth to what has been preached before now and took the penalty for all our sins which were formerly cleansed by animal blood. And He sent His spirit to guide us in all truth and teach us godliness and righteousness so we can be purified and perfect indeed for presentation to His Father. 3 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Zikdik(m): 2:47pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
Religious peeps,eh?I've got an advice for y'all.Worry more about leaving your footprints on the sands of time here and less about the afterlife,whatever that means. Be thankful that you have a life and forsake your vain and selfish desire for another one. 1 Like |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by shdemidemi(m): 7:06pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
@ alwaystrue and Tgirl Are we under any covenant as Christians? |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Candour(m): 7:17pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
shdemidemi: @ alwaystrue and Tgirl My bro, which kind sabbathical you go without approval so?  Trust all is well with you? Welcome back bro |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by shdemidemi(m): 7:26pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
Tgirl4real: I would like to share this verses of scriptures with us today. I am not after whether it was written to Jews or gentiles or which ever dispensation as some would say. lol. It is the word of God and if you are a child of God it applies to you. I don't think we can ever ignore the audience and the dispensations in the scriptures. I could be wrong but I believe it makes up the fundamentals of studying the word of GOD. The same God that told Abraham and Isaac to remain in Canaan told Jacob to go to Egypt. He remains one yet he changes His programme at will. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by shdemidemi(m): 7:31pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
Candour: I am good bro, thanks. I trust all is well with you as well. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Nobody: 8:42pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
Goshen360: @ Tgirl,i knew this gaddem heathen Goshen would be in this thread. anyone mentions grace and his ear stands up like a rabbit 4 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Nobody: 8:46pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
Tgirl4real: Goshen, |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by ayoku777(m): 8:51pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
We need to begin to listen to eachother to see the big picture of the purposes of God. Both groups have a point but we often drift into extremes because we don't listen to eachother. As I always say, the dispensation of grace is not the age of God's indifference to what He hated under the law, its a change of approach to bringing us unto perfection. This is my Spirit-inspired (I believe) definition of grace: Grace is the overflow of the mercy of God that makes a man RECEIVE things above his merit and DO things beyond his power. Grace has two sides, the side that helps us receive and the side that helps us release what we've received. The side that helps us become and the side that helps us bring forth what we've become. Its like this, I can wire a billion dollars into your bank account, that would INSTANTLY make you become a billionaire, but it won't magically become food on your table or cloth on your back or a roof on your head. You have to cash it and USE it for you to profit with it. Grace gives us righteousness, justification and the Holy Spirit as gifts, we can't work hard enough to receive them or less enough to lose them. But we need to, by that same grace, do things to profit with the gifts. You're not edified by HAVING the gift of speaking in tongues, you're edified by SPEAKING in tongues. You don't walk in power by HAVING the holy spirit, you do by fellowshiping with him and by prompt obedience to his leading. That's why Paul told Timothy to STIR up the GIFT that is in him. Even gifts need stirring. There is the angle of grace that gives us things and an angle of grace that helps us reach for things or bring forth what we are given. If there is no doing in grace or something to DO after grace, on what criteria will some people be the greatest in the kingdom of God and some will be the least? I've heard a believer say God loves a cheerful giver, and by that he means don't give unless there is cheerfulness in the act, and he made that his excuse for not giving many times. But there was nothing cheerful in Christ when he gave his life, he groaned till the last minute and his soul was sorrowful unto death. And that is the greatest giving ever. Where I disagree is when people say if you sin you become unrighteous, that's untrue. You can't lose your righteousness or even the Holy Spirit but you can refuse to profit with them if you don't move beyond the grace to become unto the grace to bring forth what you've become. And that part of grace involves some sacrifice on your part, like when Jesus told Paul to endure coz, ...my grace is sufficient for you. Grace to travail, to supplicate and fellowship with the Holy Spirit to bring forth the glory of Christ is still in the New covenant ...to be continued. 12 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by ayoku777(m): 8:53pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
I love the way Charles Spurgeon puts it 'Noah and his family could stumble and fall many times in the ark, but they could never fall out of the ark, coz God himself was the one that shut them in' (Gen 7v16). You can stumble and fall many times in Christ but you can't fall out of Christ, coz it was the Father that put you in Christ and SEALED you with the Holy Spirit of promised -Eph 1v13. Sin definitely carries consequences and incurs losses, but the loss is never the loss of the Holy Spirit or the righteousness of Christ. Just as before you became a believer, you couldn't obey laws enough to revoke the imputed sin of the first Adam, so also, now that you're a believer, you can't disobey laws enough to revoke the imputed righteousness of the last Adam (Jesus). When a christian sins, God rebukes him, if he continues God chastises him (takes his comfort) in varied measure and time, and if he continues, God will judge him (take him). But taking back his Holy Spirit, by which we are sealed in Christ, is something he has covenanted NEVER TO DO -Isaiah 59v21. This is a good thread to balance the sides of the gospel of Grace, let's not soil it with sentiments and prejudices. God help us. Following 2 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Goshen360(m): 9:36pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
obadiah777: i knew this gaddem heathen Goshen would be in this thread. anyone mentions grace and his ear stands up like a rabbit Honourable moderator, wetin I do for you naw wey you no fit forgive me? 1 Like |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Goshen360(m): 9:45pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
@ Ayoku, The way I love to handle or participate in this thread, it's like Tgirl don't want me go that way but no wahala. I want one thing to lead to another and to another and we will say somethings and teach and people can see how there are many churches but yet, the lifestyle of folks don't reflect the church or word of God they hear every Sunday. Some mighty say, we are not preaching against sin and repentance the more but I found the truth in God's, it is because we are not preaching and teaching Grace (Christ and his fullness) the more rather preachers are REVIVING SIN in their messages by mixing Grace and the Law or even, preaching law (Moses) rather than Christ (Grace) and him crucified. 4 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Goshen360(m): 9:49pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
shdemidemi: @ alwaystrue and Tgirl Welcome my dear brother. I was just thinking of calling you on Thursday or Friday. As you know my job schedule, it's still the same. Anyway, I will still call you anyway. |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by DrummaBoy(m): 10:39pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
@ Tgirl 1. Jesus appeared as a Judge of works (1cor3:13-15;eph2:10) in Revelation; it is not ours to do (Matt7:1) 2. There is such a thing as a gospel of grace (acts 20:24). Its an extension of the gospel of the kingdom. 3. Repentance is not good news; Jesus saving us from sin is (Matt 1:21). 4. Its good that the heart be strengthened by grace (Heb 13:9). So Debosky was right, young believers and indeed, all of us, need a gospel steeped in grace for strength to carry out all good works. 5. Grace is not COZA! I understood your fears my sister: abuse. But is there anything on earth that men have not abused? I am a chief beneficiary of the gospel of God's grace and this is all I will live and preach regardless of who chooses to abuse it. Paul didn't change this gospel despite the Corinthians' abuse of it, neither should we. I think if we are more pre occupied with pleasing our Lord and trusting Him to help us against our own sins, we will be less concerned with those who are abusing grace. 7 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by christemmbassey(m): 10:45pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
I thought we had settled this at d grace convention, but it appears a lot of ppl were nt satisfied. Well, i'm here already, so sm ppl will have to bear with me. The gospel of Jesus is nothing else but d gospel of grace, if u remove grace, it ceases to b a 'gospel'(good news). Remove grace and u will discover dat there is nothing good about d news. OMG, do u guys actually know what GRACE IS? Without grace, there is no christianity, my brethren! Jn 3:16 " for God so loved the word that he GAVE......" Well make i dey follow d thread small small, lets see, i suspect, d holy spirit intends to promote sm1 here. Cheers. 3 Likes |
| Re: The Distorted Message Of Grace That We Preach by Goshen360(m): 10:55pm On Oct 01, 2013 |
Tgirl4real: Goshen, 1. Response to the highlight in RED. You said, there's nothing like the gospel of Grace. But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God. Act 20:24 The gospel of Grace of God is what Paul, the Apostle RECEIVED of Christ Himself. How then did Grace of God became a gospel? It's very simple. In the OT, it was Christ CONCEALED and HIDDEN. In the NT, it is Christ REVEALED. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. For the law was given by Moses, but[b] grace and truth[/b] came by Jesus Christ. John 1:14 & 17 Now, let's follow the precept. Paul said he received a gospel from Christ and called it gospel of Grace. How did he call it 'gospel of grace'? if not the Lord Himself that gave it to him as he said he 'received' it from the Lord. John 1:17 said grace and truth CAME by Christ. BUT, Law was GIVEN by Moses. It can GIVE you a gift without you seeing me or knowing me. I can send you something without COMING to you. BUT when I COME, I come in my fullness and I come for a relationship - so you can KNOW me beyond giving you something. This is the an analogy. When the Law was GIVEN, the people did not know God as a way of RELATIONSHIP. But when Christ came, he said, I am the TRUTH. John said Grace and truth. If Christ is the TRUTH, it also means he is GRACE in person who have appeared to us from the Father. When we hear gospel of Grace, it is not a teaching, it is a revelation of Christ because Christ is GRACE OF GOD wrapped in TRUTH. Jesus also said, you will KNOW the TRUTH (me, Christ) and the TRUTH (Christ) will set you free. This Grace, preached is the gospel of CHRIST preached. It is not being preached as a compliment to the Law that came by Moses. 2. The ONLY gospel I know preached from Gen to Rev is the message of God's kingdom which can be simply put as: "repent for d kingdom of God is at hand" The ONLY one gospel is the Gospel of Grace given BY CHRIST Himself TO THE CHURCH AFTER HIS RESURRECTION, starting with the Apostles. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Gal 1:6 Another gospel means there's ONLY ONE - the gospel of grace of CHRIST. He says, removed FROM grace of Christ unto ANOTHER GOSPEL. This means, grace of Christ is a gospel we are not to be removed from UNTO ANOTHER GOSPEL. Lemme hear your view, if necessary and we can continue. 8 Likes |
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