Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? - Religion - Nairaland
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| Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by esere826: 6:02pm On Oct 07, 2013 |
I want to talk about LUCIFER in this thread Don't be scared, and dont run off My aim in talking about Lucifer is to show the reader that many traditions are usually passed off as christianity gospel I am of the view that it is important that we question what we assume to be facts as much as possible If i told you that Jesus is/was called lucifer, what would your reaction be? ***I have not said that Jesus is satan ooooo abeg*** 1 Like |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by esere826: 6:07pm On Oct 07, 2013 |
Now take a look at this scripture from whence the term lucifer was first used biblically: Isaiah 14:12 (King James Version) "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer , son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!" |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by esere826: 6:15pm On Oct 07, 2013 |
The term lucifer is the latin translation of the jewish word Heyleel Heelel simply means morning star The morning star is a reference to the planet Venus when seen early in the morning, or the moon The latin root word for that Venus dawn sight or moonlight is called lucifer Now, take a look at the pure english translation of the verse that I shared earlier Isaiah 14:12 (NIV) "How you have fallen from heaven, morning star , son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!" |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by esere826: 6:20pm On Oct 07, 2013 |
I'll push this further now In the book of revelations, Jesus describes himself with that same word Revelations 22: 16 (NIV) "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." Interestingly, this time, the KJV version translators do not use the word lucifer. They just simply insert morning star **remember that we are talking about traditions** You know what is happening here? ..........I'll tell you |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by esere826: 7:11pm On Oct 07, 2013 |
Isiah 14: 12 is situated amongst other verses where Isiah the prohpet was making proclamations against different nations including Egypt, Syria and Ethiopia The scripture there is specifically aimed at the king of Babylon However, it is said that a certain jewish sect or disposition felt that that the verse was speaking about Satan (not Lucifer) This Jewish tradition was carried into xtianity If you review the original Latin vulgate translations of the bible, you will see Lucifer mentioned more than once when describing the day star
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| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by esere826: 7:19pm On Oct 07, 2013 |
This is what I think happened: -early Xtians inherited the tradition that Isiah 14:12 was referring to Satan from a jewish tradition -Since that passage translated in latin to Lucifer, it was therefore fanciful to simply call Satan Lucifer (interstingly, another alternative translation is "stella matutina". The Latin translation used for Rev 22: 16) -This tradition has been passed down to us, and we take it for granted that Isiah 14:12 is about a beautiful being originally called Lucifer who later became know as the devil |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by esere826: 7:22pm On Oct 07, 2013 |
In summary I think we should start asking ourselves hard questions and challenging the status quo Are we really listening to God or to forms and images of God? |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by Kabieosi: 1:29am On Oct 08, 2013 |
esere826: esere826: God has not given us the spirit of fear but of power, and of love and of a sound mind. One shall know the truth and the truth shall make one free. In Isaiah 14, King Nebuchadnezzar is star of the morning and then he fell etc etc 12"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! 13"But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. 14'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High. It must be noted, that Isaiah 14's King Nebuchadnezzar's self-centered heaven aspiration has similarities with Genesis 11 Tower of Babel's house of cards plan (i.e. below) 2As people moved eastward,they found a plain in Shinar and settled there. 3They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth. Anyway, Jerome mistranslated star of the morning first, then the church moved in headlong lumbering satan with a Lucifer tag and inadvertently helped satan masquerade as an angel of light Jesus is the Lion of Judah, satan prowls around like a roaring lion - the difference is clear Jesus is morning star, satan is not. Word. Lucifer is good, satan is bad |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by esere826: 10:48am On Oct 08, 2013 |
Another advantage of this thread is that it questions the often misplaced emphasis on name changes For example, I have heard some xtians saying that using the term "luck" is wrong becauce luck is derived from the term lucifer or Lu-ci-o (i dont like the word either, but simply because it emphasises only time and chance to events) While agreeing that sometimes name changes are important and useful I do not however agree that this is required at all times neither do i believe that name changes are a quick fix solution to ya spiritual problems (if you have any) This links to an interesting subject of the 4 jewish princes of Babylon Shedrach, Meshac, Abednego and Belteshazzar (Daniel) All names laced with reference to the Gods of the babylonian regions .....You're seeing what I am seeing? |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by Nobody: 3:35pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
Of course there is nothing wrong with the name, Lucifer. |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by ATMC(f): 4:19pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
@op yhu earned a follower for yhu... |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by PastorOluT(m): 4:26pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
Sincerely I just dont know what the essence of threads like this are? Whenever the scriptures mention Satan as lucifer morning star (especially in that verse u quoted) it makes it clear, and whenever Jesus is mentioned its also clear, so what's all these fuss? They are never the same, lucifer the devil ain't Jesus Christ the savior of the world! 1 Like |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by truthislight: 4:26pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
striktlymi: Of course there is nothing wrong with the name, Lucifer. True. The word "lucifer" means 'shining one'/star/morning star. see what Jesus said: "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star. " (Revelation 2:26-28). So, there are lots of false hood spreading around. |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by PastorOluT(m): 4:29pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
truthislight: In what context? |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by truthislight: 4:31pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
sons of God are call 'stars', |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by PastorOluT(m): 4:40pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
truthislight: sons of God are call 'stars', Ofcourse yes, u dont need a degree in Theology to know that. My point is when lucifer was mentioned as the devil/Satan it was clear who the bible was referring to, and when Jesus was called morning star! |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by truthislight: 4:41pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
Pastor Olu T:  |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by PastorOluT(m): 5:01pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
Pastor Olu T: Sincerely I just dont know what the essence of threads like this are? |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by esere826: 5:07pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
The point of this thread pastor olu T is to seperate the sheep from the ewu goat and seperate the wheat from the chaff You mean you couldn't see it? Chineke!!!! if you are a pastor, then some folks are in trouble oooo |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by esere826: 5:22pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
@pastor olu_T Ok, on a gentler note the thread does all of this and more: 1) queries why Xtian and jewish tradition assumes that Isiah 14: 12 refers to the devil 2) queries why the name lucifer has been used to tag the devil, when indeed it simply means morning star and can also refer to Jesus 3) Concludes that traditions are sometimes passed off as the truth 4) concludes that we need to review our understanding of the relationship between names and character |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by Nobody: 8:08pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
truthislight: True! |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by PastorOluT(m): 8:21pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
esere826: The point of this thread pastor olu T isSmiles, Dont try to sound intelligent everyone understands what lucifer means so I dont see what separation u are doing, my points still remain that in the context that it was used in those verses it is very clear; It is ascribed to Satan in Isaiah. |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by Horus(m): 8:42pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
esere826: I want to talk about LUCIFER in this thread According To 2 Corinthians 11 ; 12 , Satan himself is transformed into an '' Angel of Light '' , the name Lucifer , Which appears in The Bible in Isaiah 14 ; 12 Means '' Light Bearer ''. Albert Pike, the Grand Commander, sovereign pontiff of universal freemasonry teaches that Satan is the God of Masonry: “. . . Yes, Lucifer is God . . .” If you don’t believe that God is Satan then this would not apply to you. The Pope teaches that Lucifer is God. The word Lucifer comes from the Latin word Lutfare which means “light-bringer, light-bearer.” The Catholics practice these light bearers, which means that they worship Lucifer in their churches. |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by esere826: 9:01pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
Pastor Olu T: You've suggested that everyone understands that jesus and us can also be called lucifer -morning star Great to see that you are finally getting around to understanding the thread Pastor Olu T: The next point of the thread then becomes who told you/us that Isiah 14: 12 referred to Satan? Was this a special revelation? Cos it was not written in that verse .....Any more intelligent insights on this? |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by Kabieosi: 9:32pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
Pastor Olu T: esere826: God is so patient ooo. God is longsuffering in silence no be small. He'll refer you to Luke 10:18 "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" and Revelation 12:7-9 7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Lucifer is NOT even a hebrew word, though a sideline just like, hell too, is not hebrew Jerome translated "star of the morning" in hebrew to the Latin word Lucifer. The church latched on to Luke 10:18 and Revelation 12:7-9, juxtaposed both and roped them in with Isaiah 14 and Bob's your uncle, the rest is history. C'mon now, Lucifer is only mentioned ONCE in the bible (i.e. the only one place in Isaiah where Jerome rendered) Honesty, frankness and straightforwardness is needed on this topic and not shooing This is more of a FYI (i.e. be aware) and not a need-to-know classified information Jerome or no Jerome, begs the question which part of Isaiah 14 was addressing the person and which part the principality |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by PastorOluT(m): 10:21pm On Oct 08, 2013 |
esere826:Coming around to where? Pls dont misquote me, my point still remain Lucifer was referred to as the devil inIsaiah which was the only time he was referred to as such in the bible. |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by esere826: 11:56am On Oct 09, 2013 |
Pastor Olu T: umhhh I actually tought you had some insight that you wanted to share on this topic apart from the usual tradition which was passed down to you, I and most of us from God-knows-where .............I was clearly mistaken |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by esere826: 12:01pm On Oct 09, 2013 |
Kabieosi: Nope, i don't think that he'll do that I suspect that for the first time in his life, he'll question and scrutinize how the relationship between Isiah 14:12 and Satan came about then depending on the strength and disposition of his character, he'll either continue with the baton of his elders or chart a new course ..and I'll be honest with you, the verse is actually very fanciful (like those Harry Porter movies), and I'd be happy that it refers to Satan But it is 'logically' clear that (except by revelation) the verse was not referring to satan It 'logically' sounds more like the babylonia race/location that built a tower unto the heavens and were scatterd abroad yet I cannot be 100% sure either as those verses/prophesies were written in a 'poetic' way Such 'poetic' writings are good at playing with words yet making a point Could it be that the Babylonian king was being reminded that like his forefathers before him who filled their hearts with pride he'll be cast from his throne and suffer the fate of mere mortals with his flesh eaten by worms without embalment etc |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by esere826: 12:21pm On Oct 09, 2013 |
.........and surprise, surprise yes, it could also be referring to satan (not lucifer) and comparing the babylonian king to Satan or even Adam and eve (who were cast out of eden and their flesh soon suffered decay) But why are many so 100% sure that it is Satan? (it tickles us like those 300 and "clash of the titan" movies abi? -fine fine satan, messing up and then pushed to the earth by a powerful God, ..no be so?) ...the general idea i am pushing accross is this: Have we tought about what we think about, and why we think that way? are we just swallowing anything and everything hook, line and sinker? As a man thinketh so is he the bible says Why enslaving our most precious assets (our minds) to the unrigorous toughts of others? ......food for tought -adding Dr, Saint, Son, Chief, Pastor, Lucifer, Master, Bishop to the front of ones name does not really change the person's intellectual content (....or does it not?) (I hope to share some insightful topics on this^^^... join me later on) |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by Jackisback: 3:02pm On Oct 09, 2013 |
I have some lucifer recording form SCOAN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-qRNbwOgyw?t=2h47m2s Watch and learn before is not too late for you |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by esere826: 3:32pm On Oct 09, 2013 |
^^^ i suspect you're not homo 'sapien' probably homo "confuso" |
| Re: Do you realize that you can actually refer to Jesus as Lucifer? by sylve11: 4:34pm On Oct 09, 2013 |
subscribed!  |
Dont try to sound intelligent everyone understands what lucifer means so I dont see what separation u are doing, Which One Is The Word Of God, Bible or Quran? / Meet Apostle Joseph Ayo Babalola - The Man That Started The First Christian Revi / The Bible As A Book. Why Should I believe it?
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