This two Great group of people have achieved more than any other. Rome once ruled about 70% of the world.

The Greeks are by far the most influential people of all time, most.western languages and world concepts were formed from the greeks, they have had the greatest civilization and the worlds greatest philosophers are greeks.

The Romans and Greeks have surely been the most successful group of people the world has known.

Their paganic religions are very similar that one can call it the same though the names of their deities differ.

The Romans wrote in Greek and understood pure Greek language perfectly.
I sometimes wonder if they are of the same origin.

The Romans believe to have been founded by Romulus and Remus who happen to be the twin sons of The god of war Mars

This god of war, Mars fits every description of the Greek god of war Ares. And that should be right to say ancient Rome and Greece are the brother nations.

The greeks are definitely older than the Romans and it's possible for the Romans to have Greek origin.

However there's no record or any claim of any Origin for Greece, their religion doesn't start much about that either.

But does this mean the greeks were formed in that location as there is no prove of them migrating from any distant land.

The fall of Such powers as Greece and Rome is a shock

So what happened to them? How did they fall?

When you say the Romans ruled 70% of the world, do you mean 70% of the world's population, or 70% of the world's landmass?

macof: This two Great group of people have achieved more than any other. Rome once ruled about 70% of the world.

The Greeks are by far the most influential people of all time, most.western languages and world concepts were formed from the greeks, they have had the greatest civilization and the worlds greatest philosophers are greeks.

The Romans and Greeks have surely been the most successful group of people the world has known.

Their paganic religions are very similar that one can call it the same though the names of their deities differ.

The Romans wrote in Greek and understood pure Greek language perfectly.
I sometimes wonder if they are of the same origin.

The Romans believe to have been founded by Romulus and Remus who happen to be the twin sons of The god of war Mars

This god of war, Mars fits every description of the Greek god of war Ares. And that should be right to say ancient Rome and Greece are the brother nations.

The greeks are definitely older than the Romans and it's possible for the Romans to have Greek origin.

However there's no record or any claim of any Origin for Greece, their religion doesn't start much about that either.

But does this mean the greeks were formed in that location as there is no prove of them migrating from any distant land.

The fall of Such powers as Greece and Rome is a shock

So what happened to them? How did they fall?

Actually, it is known that the Greeks arrived Greece as barbarian invaders from the North. They came as three closely related tribes - Achaeans, Dorians and Ionians. They settled down in Greece, imitated the higher cultures of Crete, Phoenicia and Egypt; and eventually developed their own civilization.

Radoillo:


Actually, it is known that the Greeks arrived Greece as barbarian invaders from the North. They came as three closely related tribes - Achaeans, Dorians and Ionians. They settled down in Greece, imitated the higher cultures of Crete, Phoenicia and Egypt; and eventually developed their own civilization.

Is crete not Greek? Is it not Crete of Mineus, that worshipped poseidon?

Linguists and archaeologists now know that the founders of Cretan civilization didnt originally speak Greek. Towards the fall of Cretan civilization, however, the land of Crete was infiltrated by Achaean Greek tribesmen. The latter-day Cretans, thus also spoke a form of Greek.

Some scholars theorize that these early 'barbarian' Greek infiltrators contributed to the collapse of Cretan culture.

macof:

Is crete not Greek? Is it not Crete of Mineus, that worshipped poseidon?

You shouldn't forget that some of what we read in the legend books about Crete comes from Greek sources; and they have a way of making everyone, even 'Ethiopians', appear Greek.

.... for example, the city of Troy (which was somewhere in Turkey) was not a Greek city; yet in Greek legends, it was presented as a typical Greek city with the Greek god Apollo as the special protector of the city.

Radoillo: When you say the Romans ruled 70% of the world, do you mean 70% of the world's population, or 70% of the world's landmass?

population. They practically conquered everyone they met

Radoillo: .... for example, the city of Troy (which was somewhere in Turkey) was not a Greek city; yet in Greek legends, it was presented as a typical Greek city with the Greek god Apollo as the special protector of the city.

So you mean the greeks conspired and deliberately made cities like Troy and Crete appear Greek

macof: population. They practically conquered everyone they met

OK. Romans ruled Southern and Western Europe, the Northern strip of Africa, and Western Asia. I dont know what the population was like in those days, but I don't think the above-mentioned regions ever had 70% of the world's population. Romans didn't rule North-central Europe; they didn't rule sub-saharan Africa; they didn't rule Greater Asia (which has always been a greatly-populated region). And they didnt even know of the vast American continents.

Radoillo:

OK. Romans ruled Southern and Western Europe, the Northern strip of Africa, and Western Asia. I dont know what the population was like in those days, but I don't think the above-mentioned regions ever had 70% of the world's population. Romans didn't rule North-central Europe; they didn't rule sub-saharan Africa; they didn't rule Greater Asia (which has always been a greatly-populated region). And they didnt even know of the vast American continents.

Roman records stated to have conquered that much because they didn't move as far as Central Africa and America but everywhere they knew of fell as their colony.

Besides most of the central and western African nations seem to have origin from Northern Africa.

Good thing you are here, I am really learning from you

macof:
So you mean the greeks conspired and deliberately made cities like Troy and Crete appear Greek

I wouldn't quite put it like that. Its not like there was some conspiracy among Greek academics to deliberately distort history. Troy and Crete flourished before Greeks learnt the art of writing. The Greek traditions about Greek people and their neighbours were handed down by word of mouth. When they forgot what their neighbours were like (or when they didnt know what their neighbours were like) they simply made them out to be like the only thing they knew - which was Greek.

macof:


Besides most of the central and western African nations seem to have origin from Northern Africa.

Lol, well...I don't know about this.

macof:
Roman records stated to have conquered that much because they didn't move as far as Central Africa and America but everywhere they knew of fell as their colony.

Besides most of the central and western African nations seem to have origin from Northern Africa.

Good thing you are here, I am really learning from you

Actually the Romans tried, but the queen of Meroe stop them from going further into that particular region in Africa.

http://www.ancientsudan.org/history_10_rome.htm

ababda:

Actually the Romans tried, but the queen of Meroe stop them from going further into that particular region in Africa.

http://www.ancientsudan.org/history_10_rome.htm

Honestly I would have preferred if West Africa was colonized by Rome instead of Britain and France.

The Romans would never have extorted and demonized Africa as British and French

macof:

Honestly I would have preferred if West Africa was colonized by Rome instead of Britain and France.

The Romans would never have extorted and demonized Africa as British and French

Well, Romans massacred Jews, drove them out of their Holy City, destroyed Jerusalem and rebuilt it as a pagan city from which the Jews themselves were excluded... They did terrible things in other places, too. Like France and Britain where they massacred the pagan priests called the druids.

macof:

Honestly I would have preferred if West Africa was colonized by Rome instead of Britain and France.

The Romans would never have extorted and demonized Africa as British and French

The Roman occupation might even have affected us posiively.

Wherever the ROmans went, they built good roads, aqueducts, learning centres, etc.

Also they didnt destroy the religions and cultures of the area and also appointed Governorers and rulers from the local stock.

However today, those Romans are extinct.

PAGAN 9JA:


The Roman occupation might even have affected us posiively.

Wherever the ROmans went, they built good roads, aqueducts, learning centres, etc.

Also they didnt destroy the religions and cultures of the area and also appointed Governorers and rulers from the local stock.

However today, those Romans are extinct.

sadly
Such a Great empire

macof:

Honestly I would have preferred if West Africa was colonized by Rome instead of Britain and France.

The Romans would never have extorted and demonized Africa as British and French

At the same time you need to ask yourself, Was West Africa populated back then? and by whom besides the Nok people which has a precarious origin. Also let not believe that the population is somehow static with the same ethnicity of people. I always wanted to ask this question, Do you believe that West Africans came from the ancient Kingdom of Meroe? I know most of you don't know about that. LOL

we didnt come from MEroe. You Egyptian-obsessed fellows need to stop derailing every thread.

Even the Egyptians are not as obsessed to claim descent from Cairo or Meroe.

ababda:

At the same time you need to ask yourself, Was West Africa populated back then? and by whom besides the Nok people which has a precarious origin. Also let not believe that the population is somehow static with the same ethnicity of people. I always wanted to ask this question, Do you believe that West Africans came from the ancient Kingdom of Meroe? I know most of you don't know about that. LOL

The Roman Empire flourished between roughly 100 BC and 476 AD. I hope u are not suggesting there was nobody (besides the Nok people) in West Africa between 100 BC and 476 AD.

How old is the Kingdom of Meroe, do u know? I dont think there was a kingdom centred at Meroe before 1500 BC; yet we had a West African civilization at Tichitt-Walata by 2000 BC. How do u fit that into ur "West Africans came from ancient kingdom of Meroe" hypothesis?

PAGAN 9JA:
we didnt come from MEroe. You Egyptian-obsessed fellows need to stop derailing every thread.

Even the Egyptians are not as obsessed to claim descent from Cairo or Meroe.

Actually, i heard it from a West African guy from Senegal i believe when i was in Sudan last year for holiday. Cannot say i believe him but that what he thinks and he is entitled to his opinion.

Pagan you are so tribal it is quite humorous.LoL

Radoillo:

The Roman Empire flourished between roughly 100 BC and 476 AD. I hope u are not suggesting there was nobody (besides the Nok people) in West Africa between 100 BC and 476 AD.

How old is the Kingdom of Meroe, do u know? I dont think there was a kingdom centred at Meroe before 1500 BC; yet we had a West African civilization at Tichitt-Walata by 2000 BC. How do u fit that into ur "West Africans came from ancient kingdom of Meroe" hypothesis?

Actually very old, but Meroe was more or less a continuation Kerma, Napatan period, and New Kingdom period along the nile valley region and to a certain extent the Old Kingdom, hence it is very old, and the monuments speaks for itself as regards to dates.

reread what i written, never stated you came from "meroe", but ask the question whether or not some west Africans came from let say that region. I heard people tell me in real life while in Sudan, and read similar comments within this forum that state this. I was basically curious about it. Trust me, i am more than happy you guys are west African, and should be proud of that

ababda:

Actually, i heard it from a West African guy from Senegal i believe when i was in Sudan last year for holiday. Cannot say i believe him but that what he thinks and he is entitled to his opinion.

Pagan you are so tribal it is quite humorous.LoL

Hmm I see.

Because if this account is taken as fact, then your friend is suggesting that all our African Tribes were born recently.

And that too after ages passed of the Indu Valley CIvilization, the Mesopotamian Civilization, the NAtive American tribes , The Chinese and Eastern Nations and Ethnic Groups, etc.


so basically he will be suggesting that Arabs, Indo-Aryans, Chinese etc., are older ethnic groups then IGbo, Yoruba, CHadic-SAhelians, etc.



haha Im Tribal.

PAGAN 9JA:


Hmm I see.

Because if this account is taken as fact, then your friend is suggesting that all our African Tribes were born recently.

And that too after ages passed of the Indu Valley CIvilization, the Mesopotamian Civilization, the NAtive American tribes , The Chinese and Eastern Nations and Ethnic Groups, etc.


so basically he will be suggesting that Arabs, Indo-Aryans, Chinese etc., are older ethnic groups then IGbo, Yoruba, CHadic-SAhelians, etc.



haha Im Tribal.

Personally, i don't know he was suggesting that as far as the ages of West African groups, he just said he believes his people came from here for some reason, something to do with languages and how they are connected for some reason, personally i really did not pay attention because i was enjoying the reggae band. LOL

continue on with the thread, i don't want to further derail it.

ababda:

Personally, i don't know he was suggesting that as far as the ages of West African groups, he just said he believes his people came from here for some reason, something to do with languages and how they are connected for some reason, personally i really did not pay attention because i was enjoying the reggae band. LOL

continue on with the thread, i don't want to further derail it.

Its ok thnx for clarifying.

Sorry for being the bearer of bad news, but this post is full of some ridiculous errors.

macof: This two Great group of people have achieved more than any other. Rome once ruled about 70% of the world.

This is just laughable...How can a population of 1 million rule 70% of the world. That is just ridiculous. Rome only ruled over the known world, which was basically just the MOST of Europe(not even Ireland or Northern Europe like Scandinavia), the Maghreb of North Africa and parts of the Levant and Turkey.

If you think this consults to 70% of the world, then take geography class again.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Partition_of_the_Roman_Empire_in_395_AD.png

macof:
The Greeks are by far the most influential people of all time, most.western languages and world concepts were formed from the greeks, they have had the greatest civilization and the worlds greatest philosophers are greeks.

1. Ummm...Languages are formed independently by different groups. Languages, especially in Europe were all formed way before Ancient Greece. Unless you're talking about Written Languages, which you are still wrong. Because modern Western written language script which is Latin, does not come from the Greeks but a Italic tribe from Italy. Greeks language is not even Latin, but Hellenic. Also the Latin script comes from the Phoenician script which that in turns comes from a Ancient Egyptian script. Yes the words that we are typing in is derived from an African script.
2. Contrary to belief, the Greeks didn't influence the western world at all, it was the Romans. The Greeks are overrated. Ancient Greece didn't even know about much of Europe. The Macedonian empire didn't even extend into Europe, but western/Central Asia.


The Greeks had much more in common with Asians and Africans, but mostly Asians. People need to really stop saying the Ancient Greeks influenced the western world, because they didn't. We got most of ideas from the Romans. Much of Europe didn't even have contact with the Ancient Greeks. Definitely not people like the Britons.

3. The Romans/Greeks having the greatest civilization is void. I dislike it when people say greatest civilizations. Different groups of people had different civilizations that were more or less advanced than others. But anyways, neither the Greeks or Romans were more advanced than the Ancient Chinese. The Ancient Chinese advanced way before those two which is why the Chinese NEVER NEEDED to expand, unlike the Romans and Greeks. The Greeks and Romans definitely didnt influence the Chinese or other Asians.

macof:
The Romans and Greeks have surely been the most successful group of people the world has known.

The Chinese, Persians and Egyptians disagree. Again Anciant China was WAAAAY more advanced than Rome or Greece that it wasn't even funny. Ancient Rome and Greece are gone, while Ancient China is still technically here.

macof:
Their paganic religions are very similar that one can call it the same though the names of their deities differ.

True.

macof:
The Romans wrote in Greek and understood pure Greek language perfectly.
I sometimes wonder if they are of the same origin.

1. Yes the Romans did understand Greek perfectly.
2. No the two are not related. The Romans were an indignous group from Italy, related to other Italic tribes. While the Greeks were indignous people from the southern tip of the Balkan peninsula.

macof:
This god of war, Mars fits every description of the Greek god of war Ares. And that should be right to say ancient Rome and Greece are the brother nations.

The Romans just copied Greek gods, thats all...Do you know Isis was originally a Egyptian god, but she was adopted by the Greeks(or it was the other way around). Again the Romans were just greatly influenced by Greek culture. Jupiter is just Zeus with a different name.

macof:
The greeks are definitely older than the Romans and it's possible for the Romans to have Greek origin.

Again no they don't. The Romans just copied the Greeks. Thats like saying everyone European has roman origins, just because they were greatly influenced by the Romans and that Ancient Rome was older than most European civilizations. The Britons, Gauls, Tharcians, Germanic's,etc were all influenced by the Romans like the Romans were influenced by the Greeks. Don't mean those people have Roman origins.

macof:
However there's no record or any claim of any Origin for Greece, their religion doesn't start much about that either.

Its clear that Ancient Greece origins is in the Balkans, with some minor influence from the Ancient Egyptians.

macof:
The fall of Such powers as Greece and Rome is a shock

So what happened to them? How did they fall?

Both fell naturally. They were both too big and peaked out. Rome covered a large landmass(not 70% the world lol), and soon it was going to be difficult to control. Also attacks from Barbarians, Christianity, political corruption,etc. The Eastern Roman empire actually lasted longer into the middle ages. The Eastern Roman empire is so underrated, because it was Eastern Europe... -__-

My reason for opening the thread is for people who are knowledgeable about Roman and Greek history which you seem to be

1. The Romans conquered 70% according to their knowledge of population/land mass of the earth. They didn't tour the whole world as wr know it today but everywhere they knew fell to them. The Nubians were smart and powerful enough to prevent them from going further into Africa

2. Ancient Greece did influence world concepts both in language and philosophy, the latinos might have influenced more on western languages but Greek cannot be put aside. The greeks remain the most influential people of all time.

3. Macedonia under Philip conquered most parts of southern Europe, and Alexander moved further to Kemet and other parts of Northern Africa including power Persia and they ruled most of Western and Central Asia. Alexander was once referred to as pharaoh of Egypt, King of Persia and Lord of Asia. You think those parts of the world weren't greatly influenced by the greeks? Or what about the Romans who were Greeks biggest fans? Even today many scientific theories and philosophies are following up on the greeks.
Greece is in no way overrated, read about the 300years of the Hellenistic period of how even after the death of Alexander, Greeks still continued to dominate their (former) colonies.

4. Rome took over from where Greece stopped, and.acquired even more in terms of military conquest. Greece had initially 5.2 million square km and Romans topped that. The Romans believed they owned the world.

5. As to ancient china being more advanced I do not know but no one outside their region ever knew of them, that's a big minus

6. I don't think the greeks adopted the worship of Isis, Alexander honored the godess but just as the pharaoh of Egypt, the Greek nation didn't worship any non-Greek deity. It was the Romans that adopted her worship.

ababda:

At the same time you need to ask yourself, Was West Africa populated back then? and by whom besides the Nok people which has a precarious origin. Also let not believe that the population is somehow static with the same ethnicity of people. I always wanted to ask this question, Do you believe that West Africans came from the ancient Kingdom of Meroe? I know most of you don't know about that. LOL

Nok and Ife culture for one have amazing similarities

The Nok most have migrated from Ife but pushed southwards

The oldest continuation of civilizations still alive is the CHinese Civilization and to an extent, the Indian Civilization.

However the Indian Civilization has gotten a bit corrupted over the ages.

Nonetheless, the purer aspects of Indian (Aryan) Civilization are still prevalent to date among the Brahminical groups and the warrior and cowherd tribes of (mostly) Northern India.

This is partly due to the strict laws of endogamy in the subcontinent, despite the numerous foreign invasions encountered by this nation.

The rest (nearly 50%) or maybe more or less of the Hindu populace are mixed and as a result have not preserved the Civilization to that extent.

macof:

My reason for opening the thread is for people who are knowledgeable about Roman and Greek history which you seem to be

1. The Romans conquered 70% according to their knowledge of population/land mass of the earth. They didn't tour the whole world as wr know it today but everywhere they knew fell to them. The Nubians were smart and powerful enough to prevent them from going further into Africa

2. Ancient Greece did influence world concepts both in language and philosophy, the latinos might have influenced more on western languages but Greek cannot be put aside. The greeks remain the most influential people of all time.

3. Macedonia under Philip conquered most parts of southern Europe, and Alexander moved further to Kemet and other parts of Northern Africa including power Persia and they ruled most of Western and Central Asia. Alexander was once referred to as pharaoh of Egypt, King of Persia and Lord of Asia. You think those parts of the world weren't greatly influenced by the greeks? Or what about the Romans who were Greeks biggest fans? Even today many scientific theories and philosophies are following up on the greeks.
Greece is in no way overrated, read about the 300years of the Hellenistic period of how even after the death of Alexander, Greeks still continued to dominate their (former) colonies.

4. Rome took over from where Greece stopped, and.acquired even more in terms of military conquest. Greece had initially 5.2 million square km and Romans topped that. The Romans believed they owned the world.

5. As to ancient china being more advanced I do not know but no one outside their region ever knew of them, that's a big minus

6. I don't think the greeks adopted the worship of Isis, Alexander honored the godess but just as the pharaoh of Egypt, the Greek nation didn't worship any non-Greek deity. It was the Romans that adopted her worship.

Thanks.


1. Okay, now I understand what you mean.

True the Kushites were successful at not only preventing the Romans from conquering them, but also preventing the Romans from expanding more into Africa.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DR6Q2E08xls

2. The Greeks didn't influence Africans or Western Europeans. And you forget the Greeks were influenced by Asians and Africans themselves. They had more contact with Asians and Africans. Heck Europe as a whole was greatly influenced by Asians, even during pre-history.

3. Again the Macedonian empire at its peak never expanded into Europe. Which is my main point.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Diadochi_satraps_babylon.png

They never even conquered the Italy or Iberia. I already know about them conquering Persia and Kemet. But thats not my main point. My point is the Macedonian empire at its peak never extended into most of Europe. So how can one say the Greeks influenced Western Civilization? I never said certain parts of the world weren't influenced by the Greeks, my point was that the Greeks never directly influenced Western Civilization. Again it was the Romans. Also you and other people forget that the Greeks were influenced by both Asians and Africans. The Greeks even acknowledged the Kemet influence in some of their writings. That's why I say the Greeks are a bit overrated...No offense. Yes I know how good the Greeks were, not discrediting that, but you have to remember the Greeks were influenced by other people themselves, so how can the be the most influential people?

4. Never denied that...But the Romans never conquered Persia like the Greeks did.

5. I can say no one in Asia knew about the Romans or Greeks. And yes the Romans certainly did know about the Chinese, because the Romans wanted Chinese silk. If anything, the Chinese contributed way more than the Romans or Greeks...The long list of Chinese inventions is just crazy...Everything from the fork, to cannons, gunpowder, printing, paper, wheel barrow, iron and steel, fireworks, matches, chess, card games, clocks, plows, and hoes, astronomical observatories, circulation of bodily fluids, seismographs, compass, water tight boats, large naval boats, suspension bridges, man made canals, the great wall, wooden pagodas, winnowing fan, oil and gas usage and drilling, sunspots, solar wind, maps, crank handle, bells and drums, water power, belt drive, steam engine, underwater salvaging, beer, fishing reel, stirrups, porcelain, pest control, chemical warfare, umbrella, brandy and whiskey, negative numbers, decimal system, decimal fractions, earth's magnetic field, hot air balloons, rudders, propeller, crossbows, flame throwers, flares, land mines, rockets, and much more.

Its the longest continuing civilization. Oldest continuous written language as Sanskrit, cuneiform and hieroglyphics are all dead languages, and oldest continuous calendar as Mayans, Aztecs, Indians, and Sumerian calendars died out thousands of years ago.

Most people are ignorant about China, but it has the most interesting and unbroken history spanning 5000 years....And it is the cradle of four of the greatest inventions to have huge impact on the developments of mankind's history: Compass, gunpowder, paper and printing.

But IMO the greatest contribution was the the creation of the Silk Route spanning 8000 km all the way to the port of Alexandria, the Roman Empire and Egypt. It also had a big impact on how trades between East and West were later developed.

IMO thats influence...

6. I stand corrected.

KidStranglehold: Sorry for being the bearer of bad news, but this post is full of some ridiculous errors.


This is just laughable...How can a population of 1 million rule 70% of the world. That is just ridiculous. Rome only ruled over the known world, which was basically just the MOST of Europe(not even Ireland or Northern Europe like Scandinavia), the Maghreb of North Africa and parts of the Levant and Turkey.

If you think this consults to 70% of the world, then take geography class again.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Partition_of_the_Roman_Empire_in_395_AD.png

LMFAO