Many people don't have a problem believing that they 'became' sinners simply by what Adam did in the Garden of Eden!

People find it easy to believe that the 'disobedience' of Adam in the Garden of Eden....made every human being a 'sinner'!

In other words....we all believe that....even though a child is born today....he is ALREADY a sinner.....not because he committed any sin....but simply because all human beings with flesh and blood are already sinners ...as a result of the 'act' of Adam in Eden!

Even David said:

'IN SIN...did my mother conceive me...' (Psalm 51:5)

Right from conception....every human being is a sinner! Thanks to Adam!

Let me put this straight: ....we all believe that the act of one man many years ago....has an EFFECT on the status of any man many years after!

keep following carefully!

We all believe that the disobedience of ONE man in the PAST....affected the FUTURE status of every man!!!

But.....

why then do we find it difficult to BELIEVE that the obedience of ONE MAN in the PAST...has made believers eternally RIGHTEOUS before God!!!

The Bible sounds this so clearly:

'For as by one man's (Adam) disobedience many were MADE sinners,....SO by the obedience of ONE (Jesus) shall MANY be made RIGHTEOUS!!! (Romans 5:19)

If the sin of Adam made man who is in the future a 'sinner'....even so ...the RIGHTEOUSNESS of JESUS made every believer eternally justified!

Why do we seem to have more faith in the 'disobedience' of Adam....than in the 'obedience' of Jesus!

In fact, the Bible uses the word.. 'MUCH MORE'.. to explain that the effect of Jesus' obedience is MORE POWERFUL than the effect of Adam's disobedience!

'...For if through the offence of ONE, many be dead,...MUCH MORE...the Grace of God, and the gift by Grace, which is by ONE Man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto MANY'! (Rom 5:15) Wow!

Now listen carefully: if you are a BELIEVER; ....you can NEVER come under God's judgment anymore!

Was that statement so difficult for you to swallow?

'Verily verily I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and BELIEVETH on Him that sent me, hath EVERLASTING life,...and SHALL NOT come into condemnation; but is PASSED from death to life'! (John 5:24)

Wait a minute!

What do you even think it means to be called a 'believer'? What do you even 'believe'?

I mean 'why' is a Christian even called a 'believer'?

Listen: a believer is someone that BELIEVES something!

So tell me: What does a Christian 'believe' that makes God to call him a 'believer'?

Here it is:

'But to him that WORKETH NOT.....but BELIEVETH on Him (God) that JUSTIFIETH THE UNGODLY (not godly)....his FAITH is counted for righteousness'! (Romans 4:5)

If you open your Bible, you will see clearly that I did not frame up the above verse! That is what is there!

It is when you BELIEVE....that God justifies the UNGODLY....hmm....based on the GODLINESS of His beloved Son Jesus Christ.....then your FAITH is counted for RIGHTEOUSNESS!!!

If after all this......you still believe there is no such thing as 'eternal security'...then I guess....you need to check if really you are a 'believer'!!!

Nicodemus was not a sinner......yet Jesus told him.....'Marvel ye not that I said to thee...Ye MUST be born again'!!! (John 3:7)

Today, people use the word 'born again' as if it means you must fulfil the Law!

Nicodemus was a Pharisee!!! A full practitioner of the Law! (John 3:1)

Yet he was the ONLY one in the Scripture Jesus told to be BORN AGAIN!!!

In conclusion: stop having more faith in the disobedience of Adam....than in the obedience of Jesus!

'For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; ....MUCH MORE...they that receive the 'abundance of Grace' and of the GIFT of righteousness shall reign in life by ONE, Jesus Christ'! (Rom 5:17)

If you are saved; you are saved, ONCE AND FOR ALL!!! (Heb 10:10, 14)

Can you take this TRUTH!!!

Nobody goes to hell because he SINNED!!! (1cor 3:15)

If people go to hell because they 'sin'.....then.... everyone (including your pastor) goes straight into hell...for everyone is a 'SINNER'!!!

People don't go to hell because they sinned....but....people go to hell because they REJECTED THE PAYMENT for their sins!!! (Rom 3:23-26)

The payment is called JESUS!!!

'...and thou shall call His name JESUS:...for He shall SAVE His people...FROM THEIR SINS'! (Matt 1:21)

Hallelujah!

WHOA...i love that part that says noone goes to hell because he has sinned..

you have it all...only the ones that agree with truths like this that will have their opened...GOD BLES YOU SIR

Page saved already!.
....Thanks to the Op.

Ur own opinion. Just vain blabbings. Wasnt convinced a bit.

MEILYN: Ur own opinion. Just vain blabbings. Wasnt convinced a bit.

you were not convinced in what way

@oP

Is it now permisssible for me to rape kill and destroy and yet be a believer?

Kay 17: @oP

Is it now permisssible for me to rape kill and destroy and yet be a believer?

HE SAID SINNED..those are before you became a believer

Kay 17: @oP

Is it now permisssible for me to rape kill and destroy and yet be a believer?

If you 're really a believer you won't permit yourself to sin. Under Law you avoid sinning in order not to go to hell (because your salvation is strictly by your works), but under Grace, you detest sin because

1. you love God so much that you don't want to offend Him.
2. you appreciate the works of Christ on the cross, and
3. you have been empowered to live above ANY form of sin.

If only you can walk with the mentality of these 3 points, sin will become distasteful to you forever.

@OP

how do you reconcile all that with this:
Deuteronomy 24:16 (International Standard Version):
"Fathers must not be put to death on account of their children's sin; nor shall,children die,on account of their fathers' sin. Each person is to be put to death for his own sin."

isn't Adam's "disobedience" justifiably his own to bear?

F00028: @OP

how do you reconcile all that with this:
Deuteronomy 24:16 (International Standard Version):
"Fathers must not be put to death on account of their children's sin; nor shall,children die,on account of their fathers' sin. Each person is to be put to death for his own sin."

Not only that..how about this:

"If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell."

That was spoken by Jesus Himself. I'll ask, how many times have you observed this great commandment?

F00028: @OP

how do you reconcile all that with this:
Deuteronomy 24:16 (International Standard Version):
"Fathers must not be put to death on account of their children's sin; nor shall,children die,on account of their fathers' sin. Each person is to be put to death for his own sin."

At time of moses the law was that lambs should be killed as an atonement of our sin...the bolded quote there is still working with GOD

why are people going off key.... this message is one that should cause all believers to renew their minds.... but don't forget some have got the rocky shallow heart Jesus spoke about.

vickyO: why are people going off key.... this message is one that should cause all believers to renew their minds.... but don't forget some have got the rocky shallow heart Jesus spoke about.

Blessed are you among all women for the above comment.

You see, people need to get out of religious mind set and sin consciousness whereby we see virtually everything as sin.

Such is the mindset of the law and sin nature. A Christian asking, is it a sin to drink some wine instead of telling the Holy Spirit, can I have some wine? Do you see the difference? A Christian asking, is it a sin to wear trouser, instead of saying to the Holy Spirit, can I wear this trouser today? Do you see the difference?

One is still carrying sin consciousness all about and will see everything he or she does as sin but the other accept the righteousness of God through Christ and live by faith from that righteousness of Christ. I don't seem to understand what people are hearing every Sunday if the cannot understand simply message such as with the OP even though I don't agree to once saved forever saved.

damilarelr: In conclusion: stop having more faith in the disobedience of Adam....than in the obedience of Jesus!

'For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; ....MUCH MORE...they that receive the 'abundance of Grace' and of the GIFT of righteousness shall reign in life by ONE, Jesus Christ'! (Rom 5:17)

If you are saved; you are saved, ONCE AND FOR ALL!!! (Heb 10:10, 14)

Can you take this TRUTH!!!

Nobody goes to hell because he SINNED!!! (1cor 3:15)

If people go to hell because they 'sin'.....then.... everyone (including your pastor) goes straight into hell...for everyone is a 'SINNER'!!!

People don't go to hell because they sinned....but....people go to hell because they REJECTED THE PAYMENT for their sins!!! (Rom 3:23-26)

The payment is called JESUS!!!

'...and thou shall call His name JESUS:...for He shall SAVE His people...FROM THEIR SINS'! (Matt 1:21)

Hallelujah!

In my own opinion i think this is rather misleading.
Does it mean if i believe in Jesus and go about commiting sins i will no be condemned?
It's more like a licence and safeguard to commit sins.

damilarelr:

If you 're really a believer you won't permit yourself to sin. Under Law you avoid sinning in order not to go to hell (because your salvation is strictly by your works), but under Grace, you detest sin because

1. you love God so much that you don't want to offend Him.
2. you appreciate the works of Christ on the cross, and
3. you have been empowered to live above ANY form of sin.

If only you can walk with the mentality of these 3 points, sin will become distasteful to you forever.

However, no matter how much one detests sin, one is still frail to it, since it is a fundamental part of man. So my question still stands, can a rapi.st, murderer, cannibal be believer inspite of detesting his sins?

damerry: In my own opinion i think think this is rather misleading.
Does it mean if i believe in Jesus and go about commiting sins i will no be condemned?
It's more like a licence and safeguard to commit sins.

Get your mind renewed in the word, sin consciousness to everything you do is a residue of the OLD MAN OR NATURE in you. Allow the Holy Spirit lead you, he cannot tell you to lie, steal, kill, fornicate, commit adultery etc but we see Christians doing such. Why? Unto whom you yield yourself to, you are servant either unto flesh to serve sin or to the prompting of the Spirit unto righteousness.

@OP,
Thanks for this message. May His grace continually speak for us:
Concerning the scripture:

Romans 5:4
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
It is a matter of the heart.

There is something called secret sins which are lust and unbelief based which men don't get to see at all even before any act is carried out. That is what Jesus spoke about. It is possible for someone to sit at a table without doing anything and have sinned since his heart is full of anger, hatred, lust, envy and another person sits doing nothing and is righteous for his thoughts are on love, forgiveness, mercy and so on.

Psalm 19:12
Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults

Sin is always first conceived in the heart:

James 1:15
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Belief involves renewing the mind to accept all of God...hiding the word of God in our heart so we do not sin against Him. Psalm 119:11.

So it is possibly not to work (this means both good or bad work...total no work) but believe only to be counted for righteousness just like Abraham did. He had already signed His total acceptance to God of all He says in His heart, therefore this is what propelled His actions.

The thief of the cross believed without any work for he was nailed to the cross anyway but his heart had fully accepted all of Jesus and what Jesus told Him so he was counted able to be with Christ in paradise. It would however have been quite strange if the robber had cause to be set free and gone to do wrong willingly with that belief. For believin in Jesus makes us do right.

Our prayer is for grace to always have a renewed and refreshed heart always towards God.

And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise- Phil.4:8

Kay 17:

However, no matter how much one detests sin, one is still frail to it, since it is a fundamental part of man. So my question still stands, can a rapi.st, murderer, cannibal be believer inspite of detesting his sins?

A rapis.t, or murderer needs to come to the truth that they can live above those sins that has taken hold him..if truly he is a believer..however, moral-uprightness is not equivalent to being born-again (more on that in my next post).

When a man give his life to Christ, he also take up the life of Christ into himself, what a sinning-believer needs is the knowledge of how much God wants them to live above that sin..the more he is exposed to this knowledge the more he is empowered to loose interest in sinning.

You can't love someone and keep doing what that person does not like, will you?

Alwaystrue: @OP,
Thanks for this message. May His grace continually speak for us:
Concerning the scripture:

Romans 5:4
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
It is a matter of the heart.

There is something called secret sins which are lust and unbelief based which men don't get to see at all even before any act is carried out. That is what Jesus spoke about. It is possible for someone to sit at a table without doing anything and have sinned since his heart is full of anger, hatred, lust, envy and another person sits doing nothing and is righteous for his thoughts are on love, forgiveness, mercy and so on.

Psalm 19:12
Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults

Sin is always first conceived in the heart:

James 1:15
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Belief involves renewing the mind to accept all of God...hiding the word of God in our heart so we do not sin against Him. Psalm 119:11.

So it is possibly not to work (this means both good or bad work...total no work) but believe only to be counted for righteousness just like Abraham did. He had already signed His total acceptance to God of all He says in His heart, therefore this is what propelled His actions.

The thief of the cross believed without any work for he was nailed to the cross anyway but his heart had fully accepted all of Jesus and what Jesus told Him so he was counted able to be with Christ in paradise. It would however have been quite strange if the robber had cause to be set free and gone to do wrong willingly with that belief. For believin in Jesus makes us do right.

Our prayer is for grace to always have a renewed and refreshed heart always towards God.

And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise- Phil.4:8

God alone be glorified. Thanks.

Goshen360:

Blessed are you among all women for the above comment.

You see, people need to get out of religious mind set and sin consciousness whereby we see virtually everything as sin.

Such is the mindset of the law and sin nature. A Christian asking, is it a sin to drink some wine instead of telling the Holy Spirit, can I have some wine? Do you see the difference? A Christian asking, is it a sin to wear trouser, instead of saying to the Holy Spirit, can I wear this trouser today? Do you see the difference?

One is still carrying sin consciousness all about and will see everything he or she does as sin but the other accept the righteousness of God through Christ and live by faith from that righteousness of Christ. I don't seem to understand what people are hearing every Sunday if the cannot understand simply message such as with the OP even though I don't agree to once saved forever saved.

Bros, I appreciate you contributions on this thread. Concerning the "once saved forever saved" clause, it's not my own word...kindly meditate on the following verses: Rom.6:10-11, Heb.10:10, 14, 5:9, then crown it with what Jesus said concerning those who are saved in John 10:28-29. The truth is that if a man calls himself a believer and he doesn't have that innate desire to please God at all times or an internal repelling spirit for sin, his salvation is questionable.

Waiting to hear from you sir.

damilarelr:

A rapis.t, or murderer needs to come to the truth that they can live above those sins that has taken hold him..if truly he is a believer..however, moral-uprightness is not equivalent to being born-again (more on that in my next post).

When a man give his life to Christ, he also take up the life of Christ into himself, what a sinning-believer needs is the knowledge of how much God wants them to live above that sin..the more he is exposed to this knowledge the more he is empowered to loose interest in sinning.

You can't love someone and keep doing what that person does not like, will you?

@Op, does that mean u don't sin?

damilarelr:

A rapis.t, or murderer needs to come to the truth that they can live above those sins that has taken hold him..if truly he is a believer..however, moral-uprightness is not equivalent to being born-again (more on that in my next post).

When a man give his life to Christ, he also take up the life of Christ into himself, what a sinning-believer needs is the knowledge of how much God wants them to live above that sin..the more he is exposed to this knowledge the more he is empowered to loose interest in sinning.

You can't love someone and keep doing what that person does not like, will you?

@Op, does that mean u don't sin cos I know you are a believer?

jnrbayano:
@Op, does that mean u don't sin cos I know you are a believer?

I am alive to the spirit and dead to flesh. When I yield to the spirit I do not sin but when I yield myself to the flesh I have the tendency to sin, now it's a matter of who I yield myself to..but I rather yield to the spirit so as not fall short..it's a choice we all make every minute of our lives.

damilarelr:

I am alive to the spirit and dead to flesh. When I yield to the spirit I do not sin but when I yield myself to the flesh I have the tendency to sin, now it's a matter of who I yield myself to..but I rather yield to the spirit so as not fall short..it's a choice we all make every minute of our lives.

whoa

damilarelr:

I am alive to the spirit and dead to flesh. When I yield to the spirit I do not sin but when I yield myself to the flesh I have the tendency to sin, now it's a matter of who I yield myself to..but I rather yield to the spirit so as not fall short..it's a choice we all make every minute of our lives.

Ok, how many times do u yield to d spirit in 24hours?

jnrbayano:
Ok, how many times do u yield to d spirit in 24hours?

its not about how many times, it's about who I yield to most of the time. Of course you know the answer.