abagoro:

That's a lie. Most of the Eri migration stories are centered around 15th to 17th century. The reason why the 9th century issue came up is because of the Igbo Nkwo discovery. Nri writers linked it to Nri instead of the host community who are of course not Nri.

shymexx: Interesting...

So NRI PRIEST the Odenigbo Aroli and Chino are not pure Igbo's?

Very very interesting!!

We learn new things everyday!

abagoro:

That's a lie. Most of the Eri migration stories are centered around 15th to 17th century. The reason why the 9th century issue came up is because of the Igbo Nkwo discovery. Nri writers linked it to Nri instead of the host community who are of course not Nri.

pazienza: Another thing i found interesting in that awka story was the fact that their blacksmith seem to know all the regions of igboland, and indeed other related nion igbo groups like ijaws,annangs, ibibios ans Efiks. They journeyed to those lands with impeccable accuracy like they had a map before hand, or pre knowledge of the existence of these places.

This is exactly against the notion that those igbos in northern parts of igboland knew nothing of those places, and only come to know of them because of the creation of pan Igbo union by the whites.

On the contrary, These awka blacksmiths lived amongst the ikwerres, Ngwas,Ndokis and the ijaw groups, includind the ibibio/annang/efik axis, they knew the the differences between these groups and their culture.

ChinenyeN:

I hope you aren't taking this time as an opportunity to miss the point of the discussion and troll.

shymexx: I was just messing about with Nri Priest.

pazienza: Another thing i found interesting in that awka story was the fact that their blacksmith seem to know all the regions of igboland, and indeed other related nion igbo groups like ijaws,annangs, ibibios ans Efiks. They journeyed to those lands with impeccable accuracy like they had a map before hand, or pre knowledge of the existence of these places.

This is exactly against the notion that those igbos in northern parts of igboland knew nothing of those places, and only come to know of them because of the creation of pan Igbo union by the whites.

On the contrary, These awka blacksmiths lived amongst the ikwerres, Ngwas,Ndokis and the ijaw groups, includind the ibibio/annang/efik axis, they knew the the differences between these groups and their culture.

pazienza: According to edda people, Aros were called Aro Okeigbo, because they were stationed at the boundary between the Igbos and Ibibios. Oke= boundary.

ezeagu:

I think a pre-European pan-Igbo theory and an acknowledgement of interactions between these groups are separate discussions, for example, we know that Aro were allies with Nike people in the Enugu area, but that doesn't necessarily mean they had a shared identity, although I'm not doubting it.

ChinenyeN:

The very fact that there still exists an overall lack of traditions in the northern cultural area concerning groups in the southern cultural area (and vice versa) is enough to suggest a general lack of interaction between communities in the two regions, and consequently, a lack of knowledge.

This is not to say that no interaction ever occurred or that communities were not aware of people living to the north of them or to the south of them. It's just that we cannot make the assertion that communities in the northern cultural area were aware of the existence of Ngwa or Echie, or that the Ikwere were aware of Oraukwu or Nri, just because the Awka engaged in long distance trade. That simply isn't justification enough.

odumchi: Interesting thread.



I don't think so (at least that's not what we Aro believe).

pazienza:


I would go with the Edda view, seeing as it made a lot of sense. Perhaps, as arochukwu grew and their power and importance grew too, Okeigbo began to take a new meaning,to suit their new found relevance, power and ego.

Obiagu1:

It has always been known as OkeIgbo (Igbo boundary).
People never called it OkiIgbo/OkeIgbo (Great Igbo) from the way it is pronunciation except those that are reading it wrongly online.

odumchi:

Why do you act as if you know everything?

The name "Aro Okigbo" was what other Igbo peoples called Arochukwu because it was the home of Ibini Ukpabi, the highest oracle in Igboland; the physical location of Chukwu himself. It had nothing to do with Aro being the at the fringe of Igboland.

pazienza:


I would go with the Edda view, seeing as it made a lot of sense. Perhaps, as arochukwu grew and their power and importance grew too, Okeigbo began to take a new meaning,to suit their new found relevance, power and ego.

Obiagu1:

That's funny, who wrote that?
When did Ibini Ukpabi's name turn to Okigbo?

pazienza: We can say the same of the interaction between Ngwa and Ndoki, Ndoki people probably knew only those neighbouring ngwa villages north of them, and not those farther up and bordering Umuahia groups.

pazienza: There is enough justification for the Ikwerre to be aware of Awka and other northern groups, seeing as Awka people resided amongst them, unless you are suggesting that they are dumb and are not inqusitive at all.

Obiagu1: People will say Eri is the progenitor of the Igbo race but will only 'claim' Eri and his children founded the towns in Anambra that include Ogbunike, Agukwu-Nri, Enugu-Ukwu, Enugu-Agidi, Nawfia etc.
The believe is that every other Igbo town came about from the migration and re-migration of Eri's children.

So the word 'claim' has to be used properly.

I've never heard any Igbo 'claim' we founded Igala.

ChinenyeN:
You can't actually. In short, without deviating too much into the topic of Ngwa and Ndoki, I can say that it is actually quite the opposite from what you're asserting here. If you really want to discuss traditions of the communities in the region, then we should open up a separate thread, but honestly, I am compelled to believe that you will have little to actually contribute to such a discussion.


My point is simple. Just because Awka people made their way further south does not in any way equate to interactions between northern and southern communities, especially not at the scale which you are trying to imply. It is a baseless conjecture, considering the overall void of traditions that exists between the two regions. Seriously, it's a straightforward line of thought. If knowledge of northern and southern communities were as intimate as you want to assert, then we should all be aware of a wealth of traditions to that effect, but we aren't. This void of traditions is not something you can simply ignore with the kind of assertion you're pushing. You'd have to address it.

odumchi:

Saying this suggests that there was some sort of ethnic consciousness in this pre-colonial era. Besides, peoples all over Igboland referred to Arochukwu as "Aro Okigbo". How could Onicha known that Arochukwu was at the edge of Igbo territory? How did Ikwere know that Arochukwu was at the edge of Igbo territory? Isn't Ikwere on the edge of Igboland itself? Why isn't there an Ikwere Okigbo?

It doesn't make sense. Also, bearing in mind the significant role which Ibini Ukpabi played in Igbo affairs in the pre-colonial era, you can clearly see the most likely meaning.

pazienza:


I will still go with Edda position on this, it makes more sense to me seeing as edda is a neutral party in this, i believe OkeIgbo became lost in translation to Okigbo, and the Aros never cared, cos it suit they ego. Of course, there was some form of ethnic consciousness pre colonial.

ChinenyeN:
You can't actually. In short, without deviating too much into the topic of Ngwa and Ndoki, I can say that it is actually quite the opposite from what you're asserting here. If you really want to discuss traditions of the communities in the region, then we should open up a separate thread, but honestly, I am compelled to believe that you will have little to actually contribute to such a discussion.


My point is simple. Just because Awka people made their way further south does not in any way equate to interactions between northern and southern communities, especially not at the scale which you are trying to imply. It is a baseless conjecture, considering the overall void of traditions that exists between the two regions. Seriously, it's a straightforward line of thought. If knowledge of northern and southern communities were as intimate as you want to assert, then we should all be aware of a wealth of traditions to that effect, but we aren't. This void of traditions is not something you can simply ignore with the kind of assertion you're pushing. You'd have to address it.

odumchi:

Saying this suggests that there was some sort of ethnic consciousness in this pre-colonial era. Besides, peoples all over Igboland referred to Arochukwu as "Aro Okigbo". How could Onicha known that Arochukwu was at the edge of Igbo territory? How did Ikwere know that Arochukwu was at the edge of Igbo territory? Isn't Ikwere on the edge of Igboland itself? Why isn't there an Ikwere Okigbo?

It doesn't make sense. Also, bearing in mind the significant role which Ibini Ukpabi played in Igbo affairs in the pre-colonial era, you can clearly see the most likely meaning.

pazienza:


I don't really understand this your post. Was ikwerre aware of northern Igbo groups? Yes. case closed.