TroGunn: The Bible elaborates the reason why nations like Sodom and Gomorrah and some of the Canaanite nations had to be destroyed. They were that debased. Even modern archaeologist are appalled at the depravity of those lands, discovered through excavations.

The Bible also explains that God acts justly. Simple, those destroyed deserved to be destroyed. They deliberately set out to thwart God's plan and paid the price. And like in the case of Sodom, had these cities had good people in them they would have been spared as shown in the dialogue Abraham had with God over sparing Sodom - Genesis 18:16-33.

You can't selective pick Bible verses and discard others - If the Bible says God does not destroy the wicked along with the good and God destroyed the depraved Canaanites, then they deserved it. Nothing wicked there about God - just divine punishment.

And the argument that some how, mindless energy on its own somehow spawned the universe with it precise laws and intricate designs is just dubious "science", bordering on fraud.

It's like a certain John Doe stumbling on fully charged tablet computer in the middle of the desert, and because the designer of the tablet can't be found or explained ( or more accurately all the explanations given is rejected by John), then John decides that the best conclusion is that somehow the tablet evolved from the desert sand. Even though examining the tablet shows just how complex and purposefully designed it is, and it's glaring that it's mathematically impossible to evolve from the sand, John sticks to his dubious idea and peddles it as "fact".

plaetton:

Let's star with your first lie.
Kindly cite and mention the modern archaeologist that are appalled at the depravity of those lands, discovered through excavations.

Joshthefirst:
Too bad I didn't see this post earlier.

Here's archaeological evidence showing the depravity in nineveh:

http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/3403.htm


Even archaeology confirms Gods word.
God passed judgement on wicked nations, and here all o' you guys say he is unjust and terrible. That's just wrong. Its Gods justice.

Joshthefirst:
Too bad I didn't see this post earlier.

Here's archaeological evidence showing the depravity in nineveh:

http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/3403.htm


Even archaeology confirms Gods word.
God passed judgement on wicked nations, and here all o' you guys say he is unjust and terrible. That's just wrong. Its Gods justice.

shdemidemi: ^^^Grace will not be grace if there is no display or an introduction to what the wrath of God is. We as humans must realise God does not exist for us, we exist for God...We are not the point God is...

Romans 9:21
21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

Just as the potter and clay, God hath purposed everything in creation according to His divine and sovereign will. Within our limited sensual capacity, we can say God is wicked. I don't think He would get all emotional about that, the choice of God has always been to elect some to Himself to whom He displays His endless and eternal love and some for destruction.

KA BIE KOSI...unquestionable

Mr Troll: er....

you didn't answer the question?

shdemidemi:

What other question sir?

debosky: I'm not sure the questions have been answered - why were children for example, who were too young to be culpable for the sins of their parents often killed or enslaved in the OT? Can those acts be described as wicked or not?

If yes, why the change, and if not, why are they considered as not wicked?

Mr Troll:

plaetton:

Ha ha ha.
Hilarious.

Another big lie to defend a previous one.
Na wa.

You want to use a slight of hand to defend a lie?
You guys are something else.

Are you genuinely ignorant or deceptive?

Where is your archeological evidence?
Do you know what archeology is?
Do you at all know what evidence is ?

Trugunn posted a lie about his so-called archeological evidence for the depravity of Soddom and Gommorah, wich I pointed out to him as a lie and challenged him to cite and give references for his claim.

Then in defence of that lie, you hastily and deceptively posted links , albeit a religious site, talking about the ancient great of city Niniveh.
That is what is called a slight of hand trick.
I am quite sure that it would work for your Sunday school children. But you are soo intoxicated with your compound ignorance that you often forget that you are not posting for Sunday school children.

The fall of Nineveh was around 610BCE while the biblical destruction of Soddom and Gomorrah would have been about 2600BCE.
So , from a 3000 year difference in the time scale, the two not even geographically close. Nineveh was never a part of the land of Canaan.

How do you guys live with your conscience when you deliberately spin lies in order to propagate your so-called truth?

What type of truth needs battalions of lies to sustain it?

As for the so-called atrocities of the kings of Assyria, in what way are those atrocities greater than the atrocities perpetuated by Joshua against the weaker tribes of ancient Canaan?
In what way were the Assyrian kings more atrocious than Alexander the Great, who cut a long swath of blood throughout middle east and Europe?
In what way were the Assyrian kings more atrocious than the emperors of Imperial Rome, that, during the time of Jesus, Crucified 50,000 Palestinians and fed their corpses to dogs?
In what way were the Assyrian kings more atrocious than Ghenghis Khan whose murderous spree killed hundreds of thousands, perhaps for the insane reason of single handedly fathering an entire nation: the present day Mongolia(about 80% of the population carry his DNA).

In what way did the atrocities of the Kings of Assyria greater than the crimes of Hitler and his Germany that enslaved and gassed 10 million Jews(Yahweh's children) to death?

And what about trans-Atlantic slavery?
Does that count as an atrocity?

You and your god cannot chose which atrocities to ignore and which to punish.

So, it is either your god, once again, shows signs of schizophrenia, or you have the compound problems of ignorance and schizophrenia.

plaetton:

Let's star with your first lie.
Kindly cite and mention the modern archaeologist that are appalled at the depravity of those lands, discovered through excavations.

Mr Troll:


so it was not wicked?

plaetton:

Let's star with your first lie.
Kindly cite and mention the modern archaeologist that are appalled at the depravity of those lands, discovered through excavations.

TroGunn:

The following are excepts, largely from the write-up on excavated Ugarit or Ras Sharma ( part of ancient Canaan) discovered texts - http://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/reprints/Ras-Shamra.pdf

“Funerary jars have been found with the bodies of young children distorted by suffocation as they strug-
gled for life after having been buried alive as a sacrifice to Canaanite gods” (Wilson, Clifford (1973), That Incredible Book—The Bible, p. 85).

“from numerous biblical and Roman allusions we know that child sacrifice was occasionally practiced,
the story of the Moabite king, Mesha (2 Kings 3:27) immediately coming to mind” (Wright, G. Ernest (1962), Biblical Archaeology , p. 112)

From Ras Shamra it was discovered that “sacred prostitution, both male and female, was exceedingly
common, practiced in the name of religion at the various centers of worship. Fertility as a goddess actu-
ally became a sacred prostitute, who, curiously enough, was called ‘the Holy One’” (Wright, G. Ernest (1962), Biblical Archaeology , p. 113).

Archaeologist Roland de Vaux is said to have written: “On reading these poems (Ras Sharma texts) , one understands the repulsion that true believers in Yahwism and the great prophets felt for this worship.”

Archaeologist Cyrus Gordon, is also says on Baal's copulation with a heifer, “If it be argued that Baal assumes the shape of a bull for the act, the same cannot be said for his priests who re-enacted his mythological career.” (The Mosaic Law clearly forbade bestiality, apparently common among their neighbours - Leviticus 18:23)

Besides evidence of possible child sacrifices were found in Carthage, known to be descent of Canaanites (also worshipping Baal). This one is well documented.

It's always been the case with the Bible - people would question the Bible's historical claims , only to eat their words when archaeology shows the Bible to be true.

It was the case in the Bible's account of Cyrus conquering Babylon, until the Nabonidus Chronicle show the Bible records to be accurate.

Or the Lachish Letters , or others listed here -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artifacts_significant_to_the_Bible

Or some of the more recent ones as http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135432#.UouXEZt3vX4

If the Bible says some of these Canaanites were deep in depravity, then they most certainly were.

TroGunn:

The following are excepts, largely from the write-up on excavated Ugarit or Ras Sharma ( part of ancient Canaan) discovered texts - http://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/reprints/Ras-Shamra.pdf

“Funerary jars have been found with the bodies of young children distorted by suffocation as they strug-
gled for life after having been buried alive as a sacrifice to Canaanite gods” (Wilson, Clifford (1973), That Incredible Book—The Bible, p. 85).

“from numerous biblical and Roman allusions we know that child sacrifice was occasionally practiced,
the story of the Moabite king, Mesha (2 Kings 3:27) immediately coming to mind” (Wright, G. Ernest (1962), Biblical Archaeology , p. 112)

From Ras Shamra it was discovered that “sacred prostitution, both male and female, was exceedingly
common, practiced in the name of religion at the various centers of worship. Fertility as a goddess actu-
ally became a sacred prostitute, who, curiously enough, was called ‘the Holy One’” (Wright, G. Ernest (1962), Biblical Archaeology , p. 113).

Archaeologist Roland de Vaux is said to have written: “On reading these poems (Ras Sharma texts) , one understands the repulsion that true believers in Yahwism and the great prophets felt for this worship.”

Archaeologist Cyrus Gordon, is also says on Baal's copulation with a heifer, “If it be argued that Baal assumes the shape of a bull for the act, the same cannot be said for his priests who re-enacted his mythological career.” (The Mosaic Law clearly forbade bestiality, apparently common among their neighbours - Leviticus 18:23)

Besides evidence of possible child sacrifices were found in Carthage, known to be descent of Canaanites (also worshipping Baal). This one is well documented.

It's always been the case with the Bible - people would question the Bible's historical claims , only to eat their words when archaeology shows the Bible to be true.

It was the case in the Bible's account of Cyrus conquering Babylon, until the Nabonidus Chronicle show the Bible records to be accurate.

Or the Lachish Letters , or others listed here -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artifacts_significant_to_the_Bible

Or some of the more recent ones as http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135432#.UouXEZt3vX4

If the Bible says some of these Canaanites were deep in depravity, then they most certainly were.

plaetton:

It is amazing how unabashedly you play the same slight-of-hand tricks and rehash the same lies over and over again.

First, You have not put forward your so-called archeological evidence( that you promoted) showing the depravity of Soddom and Gomorrah(have you forgotten them?)
Your other painfully ignorant comedian deceitfully referred and fast-forwarded us 3000 yrs later to the kings of Nineveh.
Now you have deceitfully skipped Sodom and Gomorrah and fast forwarded to the tribes of ancient Cannaan using the Ugarith text as your material. Fine.

Any slowpoke who claims that child sacrifice was exclusive to the tribes of ancient Canaan is either deceitful or ignorant.
Human sacrifice, child or adult is to be found in every culture since the beginning of recorded history.
The ancient Israelites, like other primitive tribes not only sacrificed their children, but were also cannibalistic.

It is all written in black and white in the bible.
Therefore, there is no primitive practice that was common among the ancient Canaanites that the ancient hebrews did not practice.
Is was just a simple latter of " my god is better than yours".

Secondly, I am glad that you tried to use the Ugarith texts to buttress your ignorance.

You know what?
Since you agree that the Ugarith text are an authentic piece of historical texts, then you are logically bound to accept other things the Ugarith texts said , Namely:

1. Yahweh, then known as El-Shadai was just a junior god in the Canaanite pantheon of gods.
2. Yahweh even had a wife, Ashera
3. Yahweh even had a son, Baal
4. Yahweh had a daughter, Lilith, the one referred to in the bible as "The Queen Of Heaven".

So there you go.
If you accept the Ugarith texts, then also , you must accept these four truths written in the Ugarith texts.

plaetton:

It is amazing how unabashedly you play the same slight-of-hand tricks and rehash the same lies over and over again.

First, You have not put forward your so-called archeological evidence( that you promoted) showing the depravity of Soddom and Gomorrah(have you forgotten them?)
Your other painfully ignorant comedian deceitfully referred and fast-forwarded us 3000 yrs later to the kings of Nineveh.
Now you have deceitfully skipped Sodom and Gomorrah and fast forwarded to the tribes of ancient Cannaan using the Ugarith text as your material. Fine.

Any slowpoke who claims that child sacrifice was exclusive to the tribes of ancient Canaan is either deceitful or ignorant.
Human sacrifice, child or adult is to be found in every culture since the beginning of recorded history.
The ancient Israelites, like other primitive tribes not only sacrificed their children, but were also cannibalistic.

It is all write in black and white in the bible.
Therefore, there is no primitive practice that was common among the ancient Canaanites that the ancient hebrews did not practice.
Is was just a simple latter of " my god is better than yours".

Secondly, I am glad that you tried to use the Ugarith texts to buttress your ignorance.

You know what?
Since you agree that the Ugarith text are an authentic piece of historical texts, then you logically bound to accept other things the Ugarith texts said , Namely:

1. Yahweh, then known as El-Shadai was just a junior god in the Canaanite pantheon of gods.
2. Yahweh even had a wife, Ashera
3. Yahweh even had a son, Baal
4. Yahweh had a daughter, Lilith, the referred to in the bible as "The Queen Of Heaven".

So there you go.
If you accept the Ugarith texts, then also , you must accept these four truths written in the Ugarith texts.