shymexx: ^^^^Why are you guys trying to effeminate a strong black icon? The man was never homo and all those bringing out the accusations are paid agents, trying to destroy his legacy and effeminate him.

The CIA/FBI followed him everywhere while he was alive. And if he were gay, or did engage in homosexuality at any stage in his life. Best believe it would have been in the news while he was alive - just as MLK's infidelity was all over the news.

Stop trying to destroy his legacy - take the homo crap off the thread, plz!

You should have done something earlier. They're ruining your good thread.

Anyways back on topic.

Malcolm X in Sudan

KidStranglehold:

You should have done something earlier. They're ruining your good thread.

Anyways back on topic.

Malcolm X in Sudan

One of the greatest icons of the civil rights/black nationalist movements. I admire his zeal and oratory skills. A man who sort the dignity of the so called "black" man. An embodiment of Black nationalism that is so missing from the African/African American psyche these days. We have exchanged this ideology for the pursuit of consumerism and liberalism of the day. The new designation of the "American" and "African" black who seeks to diassociate themselves from their heritage and forge a new one that is engulfed in so called "modern" western-centric standards.

I am all for living in peace with other "peoples" but only on the grounds of mutual respect and dignity as the Chinese are beginning to assert in the global arena

Macolm redefined the concept of RACISMfor me in the sense that it is not about hating someone because of physical traits or cultural backgrounds but really knowing how to compete effectively in an economic context.

RIP El MAlik el Shabazz. You are the equivalent of the JFK of that era!!

shymexx: ^^^^Why are you guys trying to effeminate a strong black icon? The man was never homo and all those bringing out the accusations are paid agents, trying to destroy his legacy and effeminate him.

The CIA/FBI followed him everywhere while he was alive. And if he were gay, or did engage in homosexuality at any stage in his life. Best believe it would have been in the news while he was alive - just as MLK's infidelity was all over the news.

Stop trying to destroy his legacy - take the homo crap off the thread, plz!

he was a racist and has nothing to do with us Africans.

^^^How was he a racist? Go troll somewhere else, mate.

People perish because of lack of knowledge.

PAGAN 9JA:


he was a racist and has nothing to do with us Africans.

Yet Africans all over accepted him and still learn about him, especially the Muslims. YOU have nothing to do with INDIVIDUAL Africans who can think for themselves. Seriously stop trying to be the voice for groups of people, which you do all the time. -__-

morpheus24:

One of the greatest icons of the civil rights/black nationalist movements. I admire his zeal and oratory skills. A man who sort the dignity of the so called "black" man. An embodiment of Black nationalism that is so missing from the African/African American psyche these days. We have exchanged this ideology for the pursuit of consumerism and liberalism of the day. The new designation of the "American" and "African" black who seeks to diassociate themselves from their heritage and forge a new one that is engulfed in so called "modern" western-centric standards.

I am all for living in peace with other "peoples" but only on the grounds of mutual respect and dignity as the Chinese are beginning to assert in the global arena

Macolm redefined the concept of RACISMfor me in the sense that it is not about hating someone because of physical traits or cultural backgrounds but really knowing how to compete effectively in an economic context.

RIP El MAlik el Shabazz. You are the equivalent of the JFK of that era!!

Good post.

i think pagan doesnt like malcolm because he's an african american and also a muslim.
i havent heard pagan say anything good about african americans before. whats that all about pagan?

^^He has an agenda.

shymexx: ^^^^Why are you guys trying to effeminate a strong black icon? The man was never homo and all those bringing out the accusations are paid agents, trying to destroy his legacy and effeminate him.

The CIA/FBI followed him everywhere while he was alive. And if he were gay, or did engage in homosexuality at any stage in his life. Best believe it would have been in the news while he was alive - just as MLK's infidelity was all over the news.

Stop trying to destroy his legacy - take the homo crap off the thread, plz!

Homosexual men are not necessarily 'effeminate'. He was clearly not! [size=16pt]There is nothing wrong with being gay! [/size] I do not think he was a racist because RACISM = PREJUDICE + POWER. And as a black man in america he had no power to oppress white people. his ire was legitimate against white people! like I said, gay or not, he was a great man
Also there are many other black icons like Angela Davis who was gay. Sexual orientation takes nothing from someone's character. Also, the CIA started following him when he became a prominent figure of the NOI by then, he had abandoned his pre-jail lifestyle.
He is my hero.

depressionkills:

Homosexual men are not necessarily 'effeminate'. He was clearly not! [size=16pt]There is nothing wrong with being gay! [/size] I do not think he was a racist because RACISM = PREJUDICE + POWER. And as a black man in america he had no power to oppress white people. his ire was legitimate against white people! like I said, gay or not, he was a great man
Also there are many other black icons like Angela Davis who was gay. Sexual orientation takes nothing from someone's character. Also, the CIA started following him when he became a prominent figure of the NOI by then, he had abandoned his pre-jail lifestyle.
He is my hero.

This is why I said they were trying to effeminate him and everything he stood for (excerpt from The Guardian UK):

Later, Malcolm worked as a butler to a wealthy Boston bachelor, William Paul Lennon. According to Malcolm's sidekick Malcolm Jarvis, he was paid to sprinkle Lennon with talcum powder and bring him to orgasm. Perry suggests that Malcolm's gay encounters may not have been entirely financially motivated. His masculine insecurities and ambivalence towards women fit the archetype of a repressed gay man and point to latent homosexuality.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/may/19/gayrights.usa

^^What type of man brings a next man to orgasm? - that's an effeminate queer, according to the description in that excerpt. I guess that's why I'll never "buy" that homoerotic slander.

Also, regardless of when the CIA/FBI started following him. I'm sure they would have done enough background checks on him and if he actually did engage in gay sex while he was still Malcolm Little, the street hustler a la Detroit Red - they would have nailed him with that. He was a symbol of black masculinity and he was part of an organisation, that has an ideology that's highly homophobic. So tell me what other thing would they need to destroy his public image while he was alive than exposing his homoerotic past?


Edited.

Luv the below exchange. Malcolm's responses were flawless


[flash=400,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENHP89mLWOY[/flash]

shymexx:

This is why I said they were trying to effeminate him and everything he stood for (excerpt from The Guardian UK):



^^What type of man brings a next man to orgasm? - that's an effeminate queer, according to the description in that excerpt. I guess that's why I'll never "buy" that homoerotic slander.

Also, regardless of when the CIA/FBI started following him. I'm sure they would have done enough background checks on him and if he actually did engage in gay sex while he was still Malcolm Little, the street hustler a la Detroit Red - they would have nailed him with that. He was a symbol of black masculinity and he was part of an organisation, that has an ideology that's highly homophobic. So tell me what other thing would they need to destroy his public image while he was alive than exposing his homoerotic past?


Edited.

His past surfaced waaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy after his death. This may be explained the fact that former witnesses may have fear for their life if they were to come forward when he was still alive and very powerful politically. Also Homosexuality was and is still taboo so by outing them, they would have outed themselves. I also think that while in the Nation, he was very ashamed of his past and had tried to hide it or justify some of it which is why he decided to write his autobiography with Alex Haley.

It is indeed true though that his past has been appropriated by WHITE LGBT for their own interests to a certain extend, however, queer men are not necessarily feminine or effeminate. You are mistaking gender and sexual orientation. The old myth that hyper masculine men can not be attracted to the same sex is just a myth. I absolutely fail to see in what he was effeminate in that bit. However what I see are the same derogatory undertones used when talking about sex workers in order to dehumanize them by putting an emphasis on their status as subordinate and subservient.

I think that what is at stake here for you are your own beliefs about black masculinity and homosexuality that are being threatened by the realization that one of your heroes may have been gay. I encounter the same fervent denial when I discuss with MLK's fans who refuse to admit that such a religious man was also a womanizer and believe that his documented womanizing ways were fabricated by Edgar Hoover to tarnish King's reputation.

A point to note regarding Malcolm's methods was there really wasn't a well articulated end goal for the nationalist movement's (under NOI). Okay so you get black peopole to clean up, stay sober, increase self confidence and self pride, organize politically, and become religiously aware, then what?

The next move would be to ask or fight for a piece of America to call their own, and by what means would they achieve that if not militarily. This is the reason why his organization was hounded with the question of advocating violence and militarism. The establishment really wanted to determine what their end goal was?

so in other words malcolm's message would eventually have to come down to defining what he meant by seperating as opposed to "segregating"

KidStranglehold:

Yet Africans all over accepted him and still learn about him, especially the Muslims. YOU have nothing to do with INDIVIDUAL Africans who can think for themselves. Seriously stop trying to be the voice for groups of people, which you do all the time. -__-

HE did nothing for us ok?!

Stop trying to push your leaders on us for us to worship.

depressionkills:
His past surfaced waaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy after his death. This may be explained the fact that former witnesses may have fear for their life if they were to come forward when he was still alive and very powerful politically. Also Homosexuality was and is still taboo so by outing them, they would have outed themselves. I also think that while in the Nation, he was very ashamed of his past and had tried to hide it or justify some of it which is why he decided to write his autobiography with Alex Haley.

It is indeed true though that his past has been appropriated by WHITE LGBT for their own interests to a certain extend, however, queer men are not necessarily feminine or effeminate. You are mistaking gender and sexual orientation. The old myth that hyper masculine men can not be attracted to the same sex is just a myth. I absolutely fail to see in what he was effeminate in that bit. However what I see are the same derogatory undertones used when talking about sex workers in order to dehumanize them by putting an emphasis on their status as subordinate and subservient.

I think that what is at stake here for you are your own beliefs about black masculinity and homosexuality that are being threatened by the realization that one of your heroes may have been gay. I encounter the same fervent denial when I discuss with MLK's fans who refuse to admit that such a religious man was also a womanizer and believe that his documented womanizing ways were fabricated by Edgar Hoover to tarnish King's reputation.

You still don't get it, do you? I believe his fictitious homoerotic past surfaced just to tarnish his legacy and negate everything he stood. You would agree with me that this generation relate more with Malcom X's philosophy than any other black hero. Most look see a little bit of Malcolm in themselves and to negate all that, I believe the plan was to look for something all the new generation black youths in the inner-city would frown at and attach that label to him. Most young black people are still somewhat homophobic. And I believe LGBT are trying to effeminate black men by throwing Malcolm in mix. That's the way I feel.

His other "past" surfaced while he was alive and everyone was aware of Malcolm Little the Detroit Red and his exploits on the streets of Detroit - before NOI. And they accepted him despite his flaws. Why didn't the homosexuality accusations surface back then? If in your words, "homosexuality was and is still a taboo" - so why did they deem it right to start talking about it now and now back then, since it's still a way-of-life that's unacceptable in the black community? It just doesn't make no sense whatsoever!

White LGBT and LGBT appropriating this silly claims for their own interests is what this whole thing is about. And those coming forward with these spurious claims are also part of the conspiracy to malign his legacy. They have been compromised. No upstanding man should do that. They're queers, anyway - and I honestly don't expect effeminate men not to show their feminine tendencies, to be honest.

Any man that makes a next man cum is effeminate to me. That's what the opposite sex should do. That's like wearing dresses, weaves and lipstick, yet claiming masculinity - does that make sense? Just like it's in physics, so it's in sexual orientation. Like poles attract and unlike poles repel. Homosexuality is not a natural thing. It's an ideology/orientation. No one is/was born gay.

That said: I honestly have no problem with homoerotic people. I'm all for a free world and people choosing to live how they want to live. However, when certain people start forcing their own ideology on other people, then it becomes problematic.

MLK was a womaniser and he never denied that, so what gives? If MLK's case could be well documented, how come the same people were oblivious to Malcolm's past? Bear in mind that Malcolm was the bigger "fish" back then, to these people.

KidStranglehold:

Yet Africans all over accepted him and still learn about him, especially the Muslims. YOU have nothing to do with INDIVIDUAL Africans who can think for themselves. Seriously stop trying to be the voice for groups of people, which you do all the time. -__-

No Africans in Africa have accepted him as seriously as you guyz.

Few educated ones know about him.

Some admire him.

Most dont really care about him.

The village people especially haven't even heard about him. (and these are the majority Africans btw)

islam is not our religion. Therefor what muslims say doesnt matter. anyways most muslims don't really know him.



YOU STOP TRYING TO BE A VOICE FOR MY PEOPLE!

YOU ARE NOT AFRICAN OK?

YOU ARE JUST AFRICAN IN COLOUR!

SO STOP TRYING TO IMPOSE YOUR IDEOLOGY UPON US!

shymexx: ^^^How was he a racist? Go troll somewhere else, mate.

People perish because of lack of knowledge.

Ofcourse he was rac.ist. go read about him.

he was the black version of kkk.

People perish because of ignorance.

The dude bears some annoying resemblance to zakir naik, both in looks and ideology.

^^^Bruv, stop derailing the thread with your mental instability. If you have nothing to add - just fvck off.

You messed up the Ijebu thread with your crap about Taureg and other bs pictures you and kid kept posting on the thread. Don't derail this one as well.

morpheus24: A point to note regarding Malcolm's methods was there really wasn't a well articulated end goal for the nationalist movement's (under NOI). Okay so you get black peopole to clean up, stay sober, increase self confidence and self pride, organize politically, and become religiously aware, then what?

The next move would be to ask or fight for a piece of America to call their own, and by what means would they achieve that if not militarily. This is the reason why his organization was hounded with the question of advocating violence and militarism. The establishment really wanted to determine what their end goal was?

so in other words malcolm's message would eventually have to come down to defining what he meant by seperating as opposed to "segregating"

I believing the goal of NOI and Malcolm under NOI was for black pride and making black folks feel like they're part of something. I can draw a comparison between the ideology of NOI and the Five-percent nation under Clarence 13X. Yes, the end game wasn't as defined as Marcus Garvey's gospel. However, empowerment and empowering black people to stick together and fight against the oppressors did achieve a lot. The only thing I disagree with about NOI was the deifying of Fard Muhammad.

Yes, militarily there was no way they could have defeated America. However, I believe they wanted the continuation of the agreement Booker T. Washington signed, with other perks - and being treated as equal to white people.

shymexx: ^^^Bruv, stop derailing the thread with your mental instability. If you have nothing to add - just fvck off.

You messed up the Ijebu thread with your crap about Taureg and other bs pictures you and kid kept posting on the thread. Don't derail this one as well.

dude stfu! your brainless fellow. WE are here to discuss malcolm x and im exposing his truth.

anywayz thnx for reminding me about the Ijebu thread. I forgot to reply. Im off to the place.

...

KidStranglehold: ^^He has an agenda.

You give pagan too much credit...

I think we need to be careful about how we dissect the differences between MLK and Malcolm. The MLK image we have in most media today is not real - its essentially a fairy tale now. While it is true that MLK was for integration, it wasnt an end all be all goal. It had to be strategic. There is no way you were going to fight the greatest power on earth on home soil, and win. The reasonable way out was to allow the inclusion of blacks under existing laws so that when whites fight for their rights, blacks got included automatically.

I also think people dont realize how similar MLK and Malcolm were intellectually. Everyone knows Malcom was daring, even ditching the NOI at one point. Few people know that MLK once suggested that book of revelation had no place in the bible. I know how hot that would make preachers today, talkless of back then.

Bottomline, I think these guys were far more similar than we realize. In my opinion, they came to the same conclusion at different points in their lifetimes.

depressionkills:
I think that what is at stake here for you are your own beliefs about black masculinity and homosexuality that are being threatened by the realization that one of your heroes may have been gay. I encounter the same fervent denial when I discuss with MLK's fans who refuse to admit that such a religious man was also a womanizer and believe that his documented womanizing ways were fabricated by Edgar Hoover to tarnish King's reputation.

We (African minded peoples) dont define people primarily by their sexuality. It may be a big deal for you and "white LGBT" as you put it, but we understand God created man, woman for a purpose, and that purpose doesnt go away even if we fall short. This concept is in christianity as well as the bulk of african religious thought. I'm happy you said "black masculinity" because if that is what this is about, why are you bringing in "white LGBT"? Are you really that brainwashed? We will be defining what we consider to be masculine, thank you.

PAGAN 9JA:


No Africans in Africa have accepted him as seriously as you guyz.

Few educated ones know about him.

Some admire him.

Most dont really care about him.

The village people especially haven't even heard about him. (and these are the majority Africans btw)

islam is not our religion. Therefor what muslims say doesnt matter. anyways most muslims don't really know him.



YOU STOP TRYING TO BE A VOICE FOR MY PEOPLE!

YOU ARE NOT AFRICAN OK?

YOU ARE JUST AFRICAN IN COLOUR!

SO STOP TRYING TO IMPOSE YOUR IDEOLOGY UPON US!

Who the freak said I was trying to freaking speak for Africans!?? Is being slow your naturalilty? If your IQ was above a 75 you would know I put in bolded that INDIVIDUAL Africans look up to him. Yes I am NOT African, which is why I have said a million times on here that I am Haitian/African American.

It seems YOU dont speak for YOUR so called people, because the Africans on this thread are finding you very annoying like most people on this site. So dont talk about me trying to speak for a group of people, when YOU do it all the time.

PAGAN 9JA:


Ofcourse he was rac.ist. go read about him.

he was the black version of kkk.

People perish because of ignorance.

This is where you deflate your own argument. Was Malcolm X going around lynching white people? That's a weak comparison.

KidStranglehold:

Who the freak said I was trying to freaking speak for Africans!?? Is being slow your naturalilty? If your IQ was above a 75 you would know I put in bolded that INDIVIDUAL Africans look up to him. Yes I am NOT African, which is why I have said a million times on here that I am Haitian/African American.

It seems YOU dont speak for YOUR so called people, because the Africans on this thread are finding you very annoying like most people on this site. So dont talk about me trying to speak for a group of people, when YOU do it all the time.

Africans here find me annoying?

I have enough friends as I have enemies here.

its all about ideological deifferences.

KidStranglehold:

This is where you deflate your own argument. Was Malcolm X going around lynching white people? That's a weak comparison.

Im sure he wouldve gone on rampage. The fact was that he was not in majority.

therefore that would be too big a risk to take.

PAGAN 9JA:



Africans here find me annoying?

I have enough friends as I have enemies here.

its all about ideological deifferences.

Which goes back to my point with INDIVIDUAL AFRICANS.

shymexx:

I believing the goal of NOI and Malcolm under NOI was for black pride and making black folks feel like they're part of something. I can draw a comparison between the ideology of NOI and the Five-percent nation under Clarence 13X. Yes, the end game wasn't as defined as Marcus Garvey's gospel. However, empowerment and empowering black people to stick together and fight against the oppressors did achieve a lot. The only thing I disagree with about NOI was the deifying of Fard Muhammad.

Yes, militarily there was no way they could have defeated America. However, I believe they wanted the continuation of the agreement Booker T. Washington signed, with other perks - and being treated as equal to white people.

I think Malcom also bought into the NOI warped ideology of a saviour Yacub coming down in a space ship to come rescue black people and take them away. THis belief was ubiquitous in the NOI, though we seldom heard it preached.

Being from the U.S south(black belt region) I have to speak on this issue because I never hear anyone else do it.

I assume most of you speaking on this are from, lived, or currently living in the U.S north. There seems to be this fundamental break in narrative between what people in the north(or even out west) are given as history and what people down here are given.

The integration myth - There is no big discussion about integration down here. We were basically neo-colonized down here. While in New York / Chicago African Americans might have a side of town or burrow. African Americans in the south have entire counties were they are the majority. Problems were that they couldn't manage their own cities and counties because they were disenfranchised from the political process. "Integration" was basically a shinny package that contained access to public processes and accommodations. I.E it was a means to an end it wasn't an end in and of it self(Which is what northerners seem to believe).

It would be like African Americans demonstrating and shutting down the ore plants that move goods that come from the Congo or other African countries unfairly having there resources ripped off while Africans on the continent demonstrated the pits and warehouses they are being pulled from and stored at until they "integrate" the process and make it more equitable. The notion of "Integration" would be a package with the content being control of our own resources.

This also reminds me of how I have to laugh when I here someone say "we need to start our own town" or "black folks need to get some land" That's my automatic que that the person isn't from the black belt.

[size=16pt]List of U.S. counties with African-American majority populations in 2000 [/size]

Alabama
Bullock County (69.5%)
Dallas County (69.4%)
Greene County (80.4%)
Hale County (58.3%)
Lowndes County (72.8%)
Macon County (81.5%)
Marengo County (51.7%)
Perry County (68.0%)
Sumter County (73.6%)
Wilcox County (72.2%)

Arkansas
Chicot County (53.96%)
Lee County (57.24%)
Phillips County (59.04%)
St. Francis County (52%)
Crittenden County (51%)

Florida
Gadsden County (57.1%)

Georgia
Baker County (50.4%)
Burke County (51.0%)
Calhoun County (60.6%)
Clay County (60.5%)
Clayton County (51.6%)
DeKalb County (54.2%)
Dougherty County (60.1%)
Hancock County (77.8%)
Jefferson County (56.3%)
Macon County (59.5%)
Randolph County (59.5%)
Stewart County (61.5%)
Talbot County (61.6%)
Taliaferro County (60.3%)
Terrell County (60.7%)
Warren County (59.5%)
Washington County (53.2%)

Louisiana
East Carroll Parish (67.3%)
Madison Parish (60.3%)
Orleans Parish (67.3%)
St. Helena Parish (52.4%)
Tensas Parish (55.4%)
West Feliciana Parish (50.5%)

Maryland
Baltimore City (64.3%)
Prince George's County (62.7%)

Mississippi
Adams County (52.8%)
Bolivar County (65.1%)
Claiborne County (84.1%)
Clay County (56.3%)
Coahoma County (69.2%)
Copiah County (51.0%)
Hinds County (61.1%)
Holmes County (78.7%)
Humphreys County (71.5%)
Issaquena County (62.8%)
Jasper County (52.9%)
Jefferson County (86.5%)
Jefferson Davis County (57.4%)
Kemper County (58.1%)
Leflore County (67.7%)
Marshall County (50.4%)
Noxubee County (69.3%)
Quitman County (68.6%)
Sharkey County (69.3%)
Sunflower County (69.9%)
Tallahatchie County (59.4%)
Tunica County (70.2%)
Washington County (64.6%)
Wilkinson County (68.2%)
Yazoo County (54.0%)

Missouri
Saint Louis City (51.2%)

North Carolina
Bertie County (62.3%)
Edgecombe County (57.5%)
Halifax County (52.6%)
Hertford County (59.6%)
Northampton County (59.4%)
Warren County (54.5%)

South Carolina
Allendale County (71.0%)
Bamberg County (62.5%)
Clarendon County (53.1%)
Fairfield County (59.1%)
Hampton County (55.7%)
Jasper County (52.7%)
Lee County (63.6%)
McCormick County (53.9%)
Marion County (53.4%)
Marlboro County (50.7%)
Orangeburg County (60.9%)
Williamsburg County (66.3%)

Tennessee
Haywood County (50%)
Shelby County (52%)

Virginia
Brunswick County (56.9%)
Charles City County (54.9%)
Emporia City (56.2%)
Franklin City (52.3%)
Greensville County (59.8%)
Petersburg City (79.0%)
Portsmouth City (50.6%)
Richmond City (57.2%)
Surry County (51.6%)
Sussex County (62.1%)

National Rankings
Jefferson County, Mississippi (86.49%)
Macon County, Alabama (84.64%)
Claiborne County, Mississippi (84.11%)
Greene County, Alabama (80.34%)
Petersburg City, Virginia (78.97%)
Holmes County, Mississippi (78.66%)
Hancock County, Georgia (77.76%)
Lowndes County, Alabama (73.37%)
Sumter County, Alabama (73.17%)
Bullock County, Alabama (73.11%)
Wilcox County, Alabama (71.90%)
Humphreys County, Mississippi (71.51%)
Allendale County, South Carolina (71.00%)
Tunica County, Mississippi (70.15%)