kul

If one measured Protestants by the same
rule, then by using these "graven" images,
they would be practicing the "idolatry" of
which they accuse Catholics. But there’s no
idolatry going on in these situations. God
forbids the worship of images as gods, but
he doesn’t ban the making of images. If he
had, religious movies, videos, photographs,
paintings, and all similar things would be
banned. But, as the case of the bronze
serpent shows, God does not even forbid
the ritual use of religious images.
It is when people begin to adore a statue as
a god that the Lord becomes angry. Thus
when people did start to worship the
bronze serpent as a snake-god (whom they
named "Nehushtan", the righteous king
Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4).
What About Bowing?
Sometimes anti-Catholics cite Deuteronomy
5:9, where God said concerning idols, "You
shall not bow down to them." Since many
Catholics sometimes bow or kneel in front
of statues of Jesus and the saints, anti-
Catholics confuse the legitimate veneration
of a sacred image with the sin of idolatry.
Though bowing can be used as a posture in
worship, not all bowing is worship. In
Japan, people show respect by bowing in
greeting (the equivalent of the Western
handshake). Similarly, a person can kneel
before a king without worshipping him as
a god. In the same way, a Catholic who may
kneel in front of a statue while praying isn’t
worshipping the statue or even praying
to it, any more than the Protestant who
kneels with a Bible in his hands when
praying is worshipping the Bible or praying
to it.
Hiding the Second Commandment?
Another charge sometimes made by
Protestants is that the Catholic Church
"hides" the second commandment. This is
because in Catholic catechisms, the first
commandment is often listed as "You shall
have no other gods before me" (Ex. 20:3),
and the second is listed as "You shall not
take the name of the Lord in vain." (Ex.
20:7). From this, it is argued that Catholics
have deleted the prohibition of idolatry to
justify their use of religious statues. But this
is false. Catholics simply group the
commandments differently from most
Protestants.
In Exodus 20:2–17, which gives the Ten
Commandments, there are actually fourteen
imperative statements. To arrive at Ten
Commandments, some statements have to
be grouped together, and there is more
than one way of doing this. Since, in the
ancient world, polytheism and idolatry were
always united—idolatry being the outward
expression of polytheism—the historic
Jewish numbering of the Ten
Commandments has always grouped
together the imperatives "You shall have no
other gods before me" (Ex. 20:3) and "You
shall not make for yourself a graven
image" (Ex. 20:4). The historic Catholic
numbering follows the Jewish numbering
on this point, as does the historic Lutheran
numbering. Martin Luther recognized that
the imperatives against polytheism and
idolatry are two parts of a single command.
Jews and Christians abbreviate the
commandments so that they can be
remembered using a summary, ten-point
formula. For example, Jews, Catholics, and
Protestants typically summarize the Sabbath
commandment as, "Remember the Sabbath
to keep it holy," though the
commandment’s actual text takes four
verses (Ex. 20:8–11).
When the prohibition of polytheism/idolatry
is summarized, Jews, Catholics, and
Lutherans abbreviate it as "You shall have
no other gods before me." This is no
attempt to "hide" the idolatry prohibition
(Jews and Lutherans don’t even use statues
of saints and angels). It is to make learning
the Ten Commandments easier.
The Catholic Church is not dogmatic about
how the Ten Commandments are to be
numbered, however. The Catechism of the
Catholic Church says, "The division and
numbering of the Commandments have
varied in the course of history. The present
catechism follows the division of the
Commandments established by Augustine,
which has become traditional in the Catholic
Church. It is also that of the Lutheran
confession. The Greek Fathers worked out a
slightly different division, which is found in
the Orthodox Churches and Reformed
communities" (CCC 2066).

The Form of God?



Some anti-Catholics appeal to Deuteronomy
4:15–18 in their attack on religious statues:
"[S]ince you saw no form on the day that
the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the
midst of the fire, beware lest you act
corruptly by making a graven image for
yourselves, in the form of any figure, the
likeness of male or female, the likeness of
any beast that is on the earth, the likeness
of any winged bird that flies in the air, the
likeness of anything that creeps on the
ground, the likeness of any fish that is in
the water under the earth."
We’ve already shown that God doesn’t
prohibit the making of statues or images of
various creatures for religious purposes (cf.
1 Kgs. 6:29–32, 8:6–66; 2 Chr. 3:7–14). But
what about statues or images that
represent God?
Many Protestants would say
that’s wrong because Deuteronomy 4 says
the Israelites did not see God under any
form when he made the covenant with
them, therefore we should not make
symbolic representations of God either. But
does Deuteronomy 4 forbid such
representations?
The Answer Is No
Early in its history, Israel was forbidden to
make any depictions of God because he had
not revealed himself in a visible form. Given
the pagan culture surrounding them, the
Israelites might have been tempted to
worship God in the form of an animal or
some natural object (e.g., a bull or the sun).
But later God did reveal himself under
visible forms, such as in Daniel 7:9: "As I
looked, thrones were placed and one that
was Ancient of Days took his seat; his
raiment was white as snow, and the hair of
his head like pure wool; his throne was
fiery flames, its wheels were burning fire."
Protestants make depictions of the Father
under this form when they do illustrations
of Old Testament prophecies.
The Holy Spirit revealed himself under at
least two visible forms—that of a dove, at
the baptism of Jesus (Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:10;
Luke 3:22; John 1:32), and as tongues of
fire, on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1–4).
Protestants use these images when
drawing or painting these biblical episodes
and when they wear Holy Spirit lapel pins or
place dove emblems on their cars.
But, more important, in the Incarnation of
Christ his Son, God showed mankind an
icon of himself. Paul said, "He is
the image (Greek: ikon) of the invisible God,
the firstborn of all creation." Christ is the
tangible, divine "icon" of the unseen, infinite
God.
We read that when the magi were "going
into the house they saw the child with Mary
his mother, and they fell down and
worshipped him. Then, opening their
treasures, they offered him gifts, gold,
frankincense, and myrrh" (Matt. 2:11).
Though God did not reveal a form for
himself on Mount Horeb, he did reveal one
in the house in Bethlehem.
The bottom line is, when God made the
New Covenant with us, he did reveal himself
under a visible form in Jesus Christ. For that
reason, we can make representations of
God in Christ. Even Protestants use all sorts
of religious images: Pictures of Jesus and
other biblical persons appear on a myriad
of Bibles, picture books, T-shirts, jewelry,
bumper stickers, greeting cards, compact
discs, and manger scenes. Christ is even
symbolically represented through
the Icthus or "fish emblem."
Common sense tells us that, since God has
revealed himself in various images, most
especially in the incarnate Jesus Christ, it’s
not wrong for us to use images of these
forms to deepen our knowledge and love of
God. That’s why God revealed himself in
these visible forms, and that’s why statues
and pictures are made of them.

Guy no dey... Explain 2 people wai,,don make up dere mind..2 hate catholics
if he 2 pain dem..make dem use dere head hit stone

Erhhmmm,are protestants same as anglicans?!?

Idolatry Condemned by the Church


Since the days of the apostles, the Catholic
Church has consistently condemned the sin
of idolatry. The early Church Fathers warn
against this sin, and Church councils also
dealt with the issue.
The Second Council of Nicaea (787), which
dealt largely with the question of the
religious use of images and icons, said,
"[T]he one who redeemed us from the
darkness of idolatrous insanity, Christ our
God, when he took for his bride his holy
Catholic Church . . . promised he would
guard her and assured his holy disciples
saying, ‘I am with you every day until the
consummation of this age.’ . . . To this
gracious offer some people paid no
attention; being hoodwinked by the
treacherous foe they abandoned the true
line of reasoning . . . and they failed to
distinguish the holy from the profane,
asserting that the icons of our Lord and of
his saints were no different from the
wooden images of satanic idols."
The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566)
taught that idolatry is committed "by
worshipping idols and images as God, or
believing that they possess any divinity or
virtue entitling them to our worship, by
praying to, or reposing confidence in
them" (374).
"Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate
religious sense. An idolater is someone who
‘transfers his indestructible notion of God to
anything other than God’" (CCC 2114).
The Church absolutely recognizes and
condemns the sin of idolatry. What anti-
Catholics fail to recognize is the distinction
between thinking a piece of stone or
plaster is a god and desiring to visually
remember Christ and the saints in heaven
by making statues in their honor. The
making and use of religious statues is
a thoroughly biblical practice. Anyone who
says otherwise doesn’t know his Bible.








I REST MY CASE

wait o, God didn't forbide d religious worship of statues abi wetin I read?
wat do traditionalists use statues for? dem dey raise dem like pikin?

Nice VerY nice.







.Frontpage material.

DEVA1: wait o, God didn't forbide d religious worship of statues abi wetin I read?
wat do traditionalists use statues for? dem dey raise dem like pikin?

God
forbids the worship of images as gods,
but
he doesn’t ban the making of images. If
he
had, religious movies, videos,
photographs,
paintings, and all similar things would be
banned.

hybridtm: Guy no dey... Explain 2 people wai,,don make up dere mind..2 hate catholics
if he 2 pain dem..make dem use dere head hit stone

bro wetyn Man pikin go do na..
Mk we try show dem Light it's Part of our obligation....
God Bless you.
God Bless the supreme pontiff
God Bless The Catholic church.

Waiting For Anti-Catholic Respond

what A LoveLy Thread.

Mr. Aladin:
God
forbids the worship of images as gods,
but
he doesnt ban the making of images. If
he
had,religious movies, videos,
photograhs,
paintings,and all similar things would be
banned.

ambiguity equivocation! #smh

lana_Vello:
ambiguity equivocation! #smh

lana_Vello:
ambiguity equivocation! #smh

what do Mean By falsification

is that all u have to say

nice one bro..

#stil reading#

lana_Vello: Erhhmmm,are protestants same as anglicans?!?

yes

but people see them as reformed catholic.

woky:

cypher Really Provoke.

@ OP this your post is rife with hypocrisy and christian double-standard.

You have basically endorsed the use of idols.

We Pagans use the idols for the same reason, yet you persecuted us for idolatory.

The topic headline is very misleading.

If this write-up is true, then I hope the Gods punish you sinners.

Our ancestors suffered for nothing then. .

DEVA1: wait o, God didn't forbide d religious worship of statues abi wetin I read?
wat do traditionalists use statues for? dem dey raise dem like pikin?

i know right!

What abject hypocrisy!

Mr. Aladin:


God
forbids the worship of images as gods,
but
he doesn’t ban the making of images. If
he
had, religious movies, videos,
photographs,
paintings, and all similar things would be
banned.

no one worships images as Gods. including us Pagans.

We make images and use it as representations of Gods. Our worship is directed to the Gods, not the stone or wooden material of the images.

THis is what the Op was all about. it talks about the use of images by christians in worship. you are clearly confused.

PAGAN 9JA:
@ OP this your post is rife with hypocrisy and christian double-standard.

You have basically endorsed the use of idols.

We Pagans use the idols for the same reason, yet you persecuted us for idolatory.

The topic headline is very misleading.

If this write-up is true, then I hope the Gods punish you sinners.

Our ancestors suffered for nothing then. .

soso ancestors

Mr. Aladin:


cypher Really Provoke.

lol

he even tear singlet

woky: lol

he even tear singlet

Dayuum

@pagan why don't you open a thread to properly explain what your idols are all about?
I personally agree with you that No one worships idols, they are just used as creative and imaginative illustrations of God

Maybe when people understand your religion there won't be false accusations

OlaoChi: @pagan why don't you open a thread to properly explain what your idols are all about?
I personally agree with you that No one worships idols, they are just used as creative and imaginative illustrations of God

Maybe when people understand your religion there won't be false accusations

I did open a thread. there was lot of confused replies.

PAGAN 9JA:


I did open a thread. there was lot of confused replies.

open another one

@ op One love. *following*

The bad part of this discuss is the Ignorance of supposed educated people because of sectarian belief.

I have encountered many who still do not know that image consist of both the still and motion depictions..

How can a graduate argue that the picture on his mobile phone is not an image? Lol

Then when they are defeated on that, they start talking about bowing forgetting that bowing was not depicted in the same bible for God alone. Infact Revelation 3:9 says:

Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and learn that I have loved you.

Revised Standard Version (RSV)

Or

Genesis 49:8

Judah, your brothers shall praise you;
your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies;
your father’s sons shall bow down before you..

Revised Standard Version (RSV)

They even confuse the word "worship" in context.

Tomorrow another says celebrating christmas is idolatory and they start fighting themselves. The ones that say the RCC is idol-worship cult fights the one who says christ-mass the same idol worshippers started is idolatory. so much for reformation.

When a man born in the 1960's says what has been in practice for almost 2000 years will take people to hell, then the inference would be that satan is winning the battle of winning souls.

Fighting the Church Christ himself founded is fighting christianity. It's foolishness for me.