This is of course my personal understanding of the issue of 'God' many would dismiss this especially those with 'christianised mentality' who believe in a white bearded old man sitting on a throne in the sky.

What is God? In religion(Abrahamic), it/he is the sole creator and sustainer of the world. Pagan spiritualities which are mostly Monotheistic attribute a particular force of Nature and Existence to a God while otherGods have the elements they rule. However contrary to the held belief that God as revealed this to men by books or by descending from heaven to live among men is only a folklore, their holy books are restricted to human knowledge.
Atheist around the world would accuse religion of believing a fantasy, a folklore of no logic or rational reasoning. "There is No God or Gods" is their watchword because there is No proof for such a beast or spirit who talks to humans, reveals books, sits on a throne or commands a battalion of angels and jinns. A God that gives covenant and chats up with humans in human language, A God that sits in the sky throwing down lightening bolts, A God that wears white cloths and gets drunk, A God that comes in human form to die for your sins, A God that is after your soul and would send you to hell if you don't believe a book.
There can never be proof for such a being No matter how far science gets, and that's because Such a God or Gods don't exist.

What is God? God is the creator and sustainer of the universe, from him came everything. He has no creator but is the creator.
In science the entity best described with this is Pure Energy.

The term 'Energy' derived from the Greek word 'Energeia' meaning 'activity' that is 'to do', before this 'vis vival' meaning 'living force' was used to describe what is now known as Energy.

There's a Law which governs all,activities in the universe. This law is implemented and executed by energy: what modern science calls Conservation of Energy.

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, however it can change forms by conversion and flow from one place to another
A change in Energy from one form to another is as a result of [conscious movements in it's surrounding] rearrangement in it's atomic structure in reaction with various factors eg. Time and Space

The concept of energy and it's conscious movements is vital in explaining Nature and Existence. Energy transformation aka God's conscious movements have been responsible for not only creation but sustaining the universe which manifest as various State of Energy

The first Form of Energy [during the Big Bang] was transformed within it's surrounding into the State of Heat and light- this is what Yoruba spirituality personified as The First Orisha- Obatala who first appeared with white cloths

The Big Bang Theory states that the universe expanded from an extreme dense state in The first Energy formation which produced heat and light. This act thus started the universe by it's fast expansion caused by the Hot and dense state of Energy. Then the cooling of the universe allowed Energy be converted with the deposition of Subatomic particles. This began a new phase in creation as Mass began to form with the appearance of Hydrogen and Helium, from this primordial elements came other elements notably Lithium. The energies now present began to charge through gravity to form stars and galaxies as well as manifest into primary compounds of Water, Wind, Wood, Iron, Earth matter etc.

Dark Energy is a form of Energy that spreads throughout the universe and tends to accelerate the expansion of the universe caused by the spark light of the first Energy formation. It is the most abundant mass-Energy in the universe with about 70%. (my personal understanding of this Energy form is that it was the first to achieve a complete/perfect atomic structure well enough to form mass, this making it an agent in the big bang and 2nd Energy formation)

In science Matter consists of Atoms and Molecules, atoms which contain Nucleus surrounded by negatively charged Electrons, recently the Nucleus as been,understood to be a mix of positively charged Protons and neutral Neurons. The Chemical bond between the Protons, Neutrons and Electrons forms a Molecule. No spirituality I know explains this unit of existence though figurative representation is present in Yoruba spirituality (as sand) carried by Obatala during creation but collected by Oduduwa.

Yoruba creation Account states that Obatala(the Orisha white clothes) came with a silver chain, sand and a chicken but before he could even start forming the world he got drunk and slept off, Oduduwa then came, collected all the items of creation and started forming the world. Obatala rules Orun as first child and chief representative of Olodumare. Obatala and Oduduwa are couples who Orun as represented with a calabash, Obatala taking the top and Oduduwa taking the bottom. Oduduwa represents the 'black womb' of existence which is the mother of All, she/he is often described as a blind caring parent, As she lost her eyes in a fight with Obatala. from Oduduwa's womb came Yemoja and Aganju. Yemoja and Aganju were couples who had one son- Orungan. Orungan molested his mother(Yemoja), and as she was running away from him She fell and her stomach burst from there came the Sun, Olokun, Ogun, Moon, Oya, Sango, Olosa, Osun etc.

I so much love thread like this. It a course of awakeness and enlightenment. Thanks for bringing it up.

Religion has been the pivoter of delusion and fairies. Religion is simply concorted lies created by the people to control the gullible minds just like animals.

I understand the fact that there are mixtures of spirituality and unsubstantial fables embedded in religion. It like content of water in Gulder drink but that doesn't make Gulder a water. Form of spirituality in religion still makes spirituality stand on it own originality. Spiritualism is a practical means of relating with natural forces, enquiring more about oneself and understanding our natural environment. Spirituality is the door-post into the unknown and infinitness.

Science on the other hand is a boundaried circle that define and picture spiritual course in an explanable process. Science is the finite while spirituality is the infinity which gave birth to science. What science have in purse is remodelling of reality.

Atheism curled from nnofaith and wiegraf is typical intellectual laziness, ignorance, arrogance and pride. There standpoint is basic hatred from not fully understood worldview and their remorse adamancy defending self only through insults and sarcasm. So if you are describing atheism from these guys side, you are long on endless course.

The deal on God or Gods is not fully understood by science....spirituality have more hands there than science does. Take for example the concept of 'Oro and Egungun' in Yoruba spirituality......which mean conversing with the dead ancestors. When tabled to science world or to atheist, it might sound as myth and superstitious but similar course are projected by Russian Scientist which would be finalized on or before 2045. What most dont understand is that death doesn't practically romance with biology. How can we have explanable preview with logic on consciousness of dead bodies when we dont know much about the brain not to mention the mind and thought. The best I know here is that mind and thought are form of energies (can only be transformed) which can be deviced or manipulated for a purpose.

It time for people to start understanding the plain concept of Gods and Deities in spiritual circle. Tyr is a Norse God which equates to planet Mars of today. Base on the ancient discovery, our days were named after these spiritual gods (planetary bodies). Same applies to Amahodia, Sango and Thor that equates electrical energy. The problem we will always have is holding unto metaphorical and allegorical illustrations instead of deciphering and digging into the original form. There are some form of spiritual truths in the bible....Apostle Paul attested to the fact that Abraham and his families illustration is just an allegory or practical myth or figurative concept used to explain a theological concept and the world of the jew. The two women are mountains : mount sinai in Arabia and Jerusalem hills. Arguably, Yahweh is a Mountain/hill which implies that Abraham would not be a person. Here religion comes in confusing the mind of people that Sarah and Hagar are mothers in human nature.....that is where the fools claim to be children of father Abraham through Mother Sarah or Hagar. So basically, Hagar and Sarah is a geographical location describing the relationship in which ever way between Israel and Arabia (modern day Saudi Arabia and it surroundings). I once told a friend that the tree of life in the garden of Eden mean Intelligence but he find it hard to accept despite the pointings I put in using the bible. This is how billions of human are diverted away from facts.

My atheism is a race away from religion while being spiritual atheist is a dive into spiritualism. Be it Yoruba spirituality or the so called bible. A lot have been distorted and headed into superstitious fantasy.

According to Science The Elements formed during the big bang are:
1. Hydrogen (H) Is the lightest element and the primordial source of water(H2O), it is the most abundant element force in the universe. Yoruba spirituality personified this as Yemoja.

2. Helium (He) is the 2nd most abundant element force in the universe, existing mainly as gas(except in extreme conditions). Helium is rare in the Earth's atmosphere with traces of it trapped in other noble gases. (I am still trying to understand this element but for now I see this to be Aganju)

3. Lithium (Li) a soft, silver-like metallic substance, it is the lightest metal element and the primordial source of Iron material. it is present in all organism as Lithium ion. Traces of it is said to have been present during the big bang. Yoruba personified this as Ogun. (Yoruba creation story attributes Ogun to be the forger of the silver chain)

4. Solar wind is a term for the elements of nobel gases captured within the Sun's atmosphere. These elements can be free from the Sun's gravity with time and consists of Oxygen and Carbon. (this Yoruba spirituality personified as Orungan)

Water makes up to 75% of Earth's surface. It's Origins are still reason for debate with A list of theories
1. Cooling of the primordial elements(Hydrogen and Helium) to the point where the outgassed components were held in the Earth's atmosphere and released as liquid water.

2. Icy comets of frozen hydrogen running across the galaxies and colliding with earth

3. Biochemically through mineralization and photosynthesis

4. Gradual leakage of water stored in Hydros minerals of the Earth's rocks

This Scientific theories of Water's Origins can be understood with the Yoruba story of pregnant Yemoja running away and burst out as Olokun(sea and oceans), Osun(rivers), Olosa(lakes and lagoon).

Spirituality is truly the Profound source of science.

And It is the context of religion, However we must try to understand things before accepting or condemning it.
Every Pagan Civilization has it's Spirituality and Pantheon which are personified Primordial Forces of Nature and Sustainers of the Universe.
A thorough study and understanding of this Pagan spiritualities around the world explains the Universe as the locals understood it.

I have met so many who take these stories literal- they hear Obatala is an old man with white beard wearing white, and falling asleep when he's suppose to pour sand on the primordial water. This is not literal but an intelligent use of metaphoric symbolism to explains this phenomena to people.

Back in the days, our ancestors didn't have all the science equipments we have now but they had theirs
They studied astrology and even human anatomy their philosophies were branded into spirituality with personification. Many still take this literally because they are either too lazy to learn or just too religious to think, research and understand.

Many Christians and Muslims accused the idea of pagan spirituality of being idolatry, evil and hell bound not only because they don't understand Paganism but because they don't understand The Universe.
Everything is a God, even I am a God, dogs, snakes, pigeons are all manifestation of God not creation but manifestation.
God didn't create from nothing, he/it created from himself.

We are all connected, I am you in another formation, you are your grandfather in another formation.<< not reincarnation now but just a matter of bond, the link is inseparable.
Energy is in Everything and Energy is Everything

God is me and I am God in another formation, the only difference is complexity and height of consciousness

I like this, good job mate.

Good one. Since I was a kid, I always knew about this connection of the SPiritual Energies with the Gods.

More grease Macof! More grease to these your elbows. And you too FOLYKAZE. The "God" term has become one cone of the most misunderstood concepts in this life, all thanks to religion especially christianity.

I have a request for you guys. How can one be/grow spiritual? i.e be able to identify, and relate with these "forces" and his own spiritual self?

Energy in motion, is not conscious, does not have direction. It must be harnessed. The consciousness and direction we see in the universe implies a conscious and purposeful God. The fine-tuning of universal constraints to make life possible cannot be ignored. This is not "godidit".

This is the fact that the universe itself implies a conscious and purposeful creator. We call him God. He is not an ignorant answer to our questions, he is an acknowledgement of a very sane and seeing man.



So I disagree with you macof. God is not energy. God is a being, like us. He is the Cause.

And the fact that humans paint this "God" in their image does not nihilize his "Being" and his objective attributes.

^God is a humanbeing

These manworshippers sef. .

PAGAN 9JA:
^God is a humanbeing

These manworshippers sef. .

show me where I implied God is a human being?

Being is not equal to human being.

Lol. I take it you're joking.

Joshthefirst: show me where I implied God is a human being?

Being is not equal to human being.

Lol. I take it you're joking.

you said beings like us.

so what kind of being?

PAGAN 9JA:


you said beings like us.

so what kind of being?

I didn't mean a direct comparison, I meant a conscious entity, a person.

This is an excerpt of an email to Ray (way of the master) from an atheist.

Ray,

You are really convinced that you've got all the answers. You've really got yourself tricked into believing that you're 100% right. Well, let me tell you just one thing. Do you consider yourself to be compassionate of other humans? If you're right, as you say you are, and believe that, then how can you sleep at night? When you speak with me you are speaking with someone who you believe is walking directly into eternal damnation into an endless onslaught of horrendous pain which your 'loving' god created, yet you stand by and do nothing.

If you believe one bit that thousands every day were falling into an eternal and unreachable fate, you should be running the streets mad with rage at their blindness. That's equivalent to standing on a street corner and watching every person that passes you walk blindly directly into the path of a bus and die, yet you stand idly by and do nothing. You're just twiddling your thumbs, happy in the knowledge that one day that 'walk' signal will shine your way across the road.

Think about it. Imagine the horrors Hell must have in store if the bible is true. You're just going to allow that to happen and not care about saving anyone but yourself? If you're right then you're an uncaring, unemotional and purely selfish (expletive) that has no right to talk about subjects such as love and caring.

James Franz

olubuffett: This is an excerpt of an email to Ray (way of the master) from an atheist.

Ray,

You are really convinced that you've got all the answers. You've really got yourself tricked into believing that you're 100% right. Well, let me tell you just one thing. Do you consider yourself to be compassionate of other humans? If you're right, as you say you are, and believe that, then how can you sleep at night? When you speak with me you are speaking with someone who you believe is walking directly into eternal damnation into an endless onslaught of horrendous pain which your 'loving' god created, yet you stand by and do nothing.

If you believe one bit that thousands every day were falling into an eternal and unreachable fate, you should be running the streets mad with rage at their blindness. That's equivalent to standing on a street corner and watching every person that passes you walk blindly directly into the path of a bus and die, yet you stand idly by and do nothing. You're just twiddling your thumbs, happy in the knowledge that one day that 'walk' signal will shine your way across the road.

Think about it. Imagine the horrors Hell must have in store if the bible is true. You're just going to allow that to happen and not care about saving anyone but yourself? If you're right then you're an uncaring, unemotional and purely selfish (expletive) that has no right to talk about subjects such as love and caring.

James Franz

you forgot to add Ray's response.

I can't get it now, but I've read it before:
Ray responded that for forty years he didn't sleep completely at night. He woke up and cried and prayed to God for sinners, he said he preaches everyday for them to escape the wrath to come because of iniquity. And others do it too.

Hell is real. We know the terror of God, but we also know his forgiveness and love. Repent today.

The terror paul knew is what made him get up after being beaten nearly to death and enter the same city of his tormentors to preach the message.
Hell is real. We stand everywhere, preaching this message. Embrace Christs salvation.

I'll get Ray's response later. Its unfair of you to show the letter without showing the passionate response.

Joshthefirst:

I didn't mean a direct comparison, I meant a conscious entity, a person.

A conscious entity is not necessairly a person.

Does God have eyes, mouth , ears, nose, etc

Sylvekzee: More grease Macof! More grease to these your elbows. And you too FOLYKAZE. The "God" term has become one cone of the most misunderstood concepts in this life, all thanks to religion especially christianity.

I have a request for you guys. How can one be/grow spiritual? i.e be able to identify, and relate with these "forces" and his own spiritual self?

I know close to nothing about other ethnic spirituality so permit me to walk around in the premises which I have knowledge about.

According to Buddhism, realisation of enlightenment is seeking patience and focus.

According to Ifa, realisation of consciousness and divinity is through Iwa pele (patience character).

There are many things to learn and know in the spiritual world. Spiritualism starts from observation, inquiries and understanding. It could be with anything in your environment. Just be focus...

Ire

This would be the first time I quote you. Lets have fun

Joshthefirst: Energy in motion, is not conscious, does not have direction. It must be harnessed.

What is consciousness?

Joshthefirst: The consciousness and direction we see in the universe implies a conscious and purposeful God. The fine-tuning of universal constraints to make life possible cannot be ignored. This is not "godidit".

And this applies to Natural disaster and disease epidemic? If the universe is a smooth flow, we wouldn't have struggled for survival and fitting.

Joshthefirst: This is the fact that the universe itself implies a conscious and purposeful creator.

Can we start here by telling us whom this creator is? Zeus or Yahweh or Osiris?

Joshthefirst: We call him God. He is not an ignorant answer to our questions, he is an acknowledgement of a very sane and seeing man.

Your God is a man.....homo sapien right?

Joshthefirst: So I disagree with you macof. God is not energy. God is a being, like us. He is the Cause.

If God is a being like us, then he is a condensed energy. Which implies Energy predate him.

Joshthefirst: And the fact that humans paint this "God" in their image does not nihilize his "Being" and his objective attributes.

This rightful buttress that in the beginning, Man created God out of unknown to form an entity which other men would be subjected to.

This would be the first time I quote you. Lets have fun

Joshthefirst: Energy in motion, is not conscious, does not have direction. It must be harnessed.

What is consciousness?

Joshthefirst: The consciousness and direction we see in the universe implies a conscious and purposeful God. The fine-tuning of universal constraints to make life possible cannot be ignored. This is not "godidit".

And this applies to Natural disaster and disease epidemic? If the universe is a smooth flow, we wouldn't have struggled for survival and fitting.

Joshthefirst: This is the fact that the universe itself implies a conscious and purposeful creator.

Can we start here by telling us whom this creator is? Zeus or Yahweh or Osiris?

Joshthefirst: We call him God. He is not an ignorant answer to our questions, he is an acknowledgement of a very sane and seeing man.

Your God is a man.....homo sapien right?

Joshthefirst: So I disagree with you macof. God is not energy. God is a being, like us. He is the Cause.

If God is a being like us, then he is a condensed energy. Which implies Energy predate him.

Joshthefirst: And the fact that humans paint this "God" in their image does not nihilize his "Being" and his objective attributes.

This rightful buttress that in the beginning, Man created God out of unknown to form an entity which other men would be subjected to.

Joshthefirst:

I didn't mean a direct comparison, I meant a conscious entity, a person.

When did conscious entity becomes a person?

Religion is really a bad thing mehn.

FOLYKAZE:

When did conscious entity becomes a person?

Religion is really a bad thing mehn.

this is the definition of being I mean.

Being:

3.
a. A person: "The artist after all is a solitary being" (Virginia Woolf).
b. All the qualities constituting one that exists; the essence.
c. One's basic or essential nature; personality.


Do good to search the dictionary first before demeaning in ignorance.

Sylvekzee: More grease Macof! More grease to these your elbows. And you too FOLYKAZE. The "God" term has become one cone of the most misunderstood concepts in this life, all thanks to religion especially christianity.

Religion's foundation is taken from Spirituality, it's pillars are used to build religion.

Many Christians don't know the origin of their religion.
(Canaanite Paganism < Yahwish < Judaism) + (Various European Pagan Traditions) = Christianity

A thorough study of canaanite spirituality you would find out that Yahweh was a mountain God of the Kenite and Midian tribes. Abraham lived in kenite territories and was introduced to Yahweh. Other Gods existed Baal Haddad, Asherah, Yaw etc. and The head of the pantheon El Elyon

I have an Israeli friend who first pointed this out that Abraham was a foreigner who simply adopted a God from the new land he lived. Some people claim Abraham referred to a group of people but I don't think so because his life seems well mapped out and told in sequence.

Now if Yahweh's true identity is as a Mountain God that makes him counterpart of Orisha Oke. Why do mountain dwellers devote to mountain God? Because they wish to harness the Energies and Primordial Elements responsible for Mountains. Same goes with Farmers devoted to Orisha Oko, Fishermen devoted to Water Gods and Goddess notably Yemoja and Olokun.
You can't see a fisherman devoted to Mountain God

This is simply in a bid to gain favor in your specialty. This primordial energies can be harnessed and manipulated for ones benefit

I have a request for you guys. How can one be/grow spiritual? i.e be able to identify, and relate with these "forces" and his own spiritual self?

The forces are everywhere and even within us. The Most important thing is to grow in consciousness, and one major step to achieving that is good character, always exchange positively charged energies throughout your life and the primordial forces would align in your favor. Identifying and interacting with the forces is on a different plain it takes time and devotion which is easier done by training. All you need to be concerned about is your life and achieving your destiny

Joshthefirst: Energy in motion, is not conscious, does not have direction. It must be harnessed. The consciousness and direction we see in the universe implies a conscious and purposeful God. The fine-tuning of universal constraints to make life possible cannot be ignored. This is not "godidit".

energy is conscious, more conscious than Mass or Matter.
Science doesn't know that but spirituality does. The directions and organized movements in the universe is controlled by Energy- which is always and has always been conscious.
Science is still far behind Spirituality

This is the fact that the universe itself implies a conscious and purposeful creator. We call him God. He is not an ignorant answer to our questions, he is an acknowledgement of a very sane and seeing man.

Yes and that creator is Pure Energy, which we call God. When we pray it's not an invisible man that answers(if it gets answered) but primordial forces aligned in your favor. That's why you should always deal with positive state of Energy- prevent yourself from being dominated by Negative forces, That is why Ifa teaches 'Iwa-Pele' good character in universal balance. It keeps everything going smoothly and favors coming in from every angle It's not about Wishing to an unseen old man

So I disagree with you macof. God is not energy. God is a being, like us. He is the Cause.

God is not like us in this sense, because God is the beginning the very state of Nothingness and Nospace which Transformed into Everything we see today.

And the fact that humans paint this "God" in their image does not nihilize his "Being" and his objective attributes.

Wat is your definition of being? Because it seems your idea of God is being means that he has eyes, legs, hand and a butt to sit on a throne

PAGAN 9JA:


A conscious entity is not necessairly a person.

Does God have eyes, mouth , ears, nose, etc

This is where people get it wrong

They only want to see a white old man living in space

macof:

This is where people get it wrong

They only want to see a white old man living in space

Its because of that silly bible/quran quote - "God created us in HIS image".

macof:

This is where people get it wrong

They only want to see a white old man living in space

PAGAN 9JA:
Its because of that silly bible/quran quote - "God created us in HIS image".

Are you people blind? When have I even brought up the bible here? Talk about shooting blanks and patting themselves on the back. Did you not see this:

Joshthefirst: this is the definition of being I mean.
Being:
3.
a. A person: "The artist after all is a solitary being" (Virginia Woolf).
b. All the qualities constituting one that exists; the essence.
c. One's basic or essential nature; personality.
Do good to search the dictionary first before demeaning in ignorance.

Joshthefirst: this is the definition of being I mean.

Being:

3.
a. A person: "The artist after all is a solitary being" (Virginia Woolf).
b. All the qualities constituting one that exists; the essence.
c. One's basic or essential nature; personality.


Do good to search the dictionary first before demeaning in ignorance.

You said person and not being. You also classifiablly mentioned 'man' in one of your post. So be specific and stop this deceit

I have written two posts on this topic and none came out. Whatta happening?

whatofyou: I have written two posts on this topic and none came out. Whatta happening?

Try again. Let's hear from you and see wat you understand by 'God' and 'Primordial Energy'

Nice thread! Honestly i have gained some knowledge. Erm macof i have noticed that paganism is related to pantheism if not practically the same ideology.

This primordial energies can be harnessed and manipulated for ones benefit

Yes i do support the statement, i believe this also seem to be the bases for most Rosicrucian studies; the study of the universal energies/forces in relation to spiritualism.
I initially thought i was atheist but the folykaze quote best describes me.

My atheism is a race away from religion while being spiritual atheist is a dive into spiritualism

@ i would love to go more into spiritualism. If only one can think deep and beyond the limit, they can comprehend what this thread is about.

Nice thread! Honestly i have gained some knowledge. Erm macof i have noticed that paganism is related to pantheism if not practically the same ideology.

This primordial energies can be harnessed and manipulated for ones benefit

Yes i do support the statement, i believe this also seem to be the bases for most Rosicrucian studies; the study of the universal energies/forces in relation to spiritualism.
I initially thought i was atheist but the folykaze quote best describes me.

My atheism is a race away from religion while being spiritual atheist is a dive into spiritualism

@ i would love to go more into spiritualism. If only one can think deep and beyond the limit, they can comprehend what this thread is about.