As simple as any thing.After the fall of the first man(Adam),man lost the glory and image of God and man was casted away from the presence of God , man lost his fellowship with God, so He (God) was looking for a means of bringing man back to himself because HE never wanted man to perish so He gave His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON(the only son He has,not that they are many and He decided to spare one but one and only one son) as a ransom to reclaim man to Himself.

ejighikeme:

As simple as any thing.After the fall of the first man(Adam),man lost the glory and image of God and man was casted away from the presence of God , man lost his fellowship with God, so He (God) was looking for a means of bringing man back to himself because HE never wanted man to perish so He gave His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON(the only son He has,not that they are many and He decided to spare one but one and only one son) as a ransom to reclaim man to Himself.

what do you mean when you say that man was casted away from god? god has been with the jews through out the old testament if you read your bible, commading them to pillage, kill, maim, destroy and enslave non jews so i dont understand what you are talking about man being casted away from the presence of god, moses was with god, so was job, noah, issac, jacob etc. god does'nt want man to perish you said, are you for real . the same god ordered the death and destruction of so many innocent people in the bible for no reason at all in most cases and you are here talking about him not wanting people to perish. reclaim man to him self you said, are you talking about when man dies or while man is still alive? if god really wanted to reclaim man to him self things would have been like they were during the time of adam and eve in the garden of eden according to the bible where there was no sin, death and destruction, but even after the personal sacrifice by god of himself sin continues to exist, even after god has destroyed the whole of hummanity according to the story myth of noah. the hebrew god scarificed himself yet nothing is yet to happen to sin and disobidence that supposedly took man away from god. man continues to sin and nothing has changed, by the way if i may ask do animals sin? does a lion commit sin when he takes away the baby of an antelop and feeds on it in the jungle? does a spider commit sin when it entraps a fly with its web and eats him for lunch? does a hawk commit sin when it takes away a helpless chick from it mother and serves the chick to her own chicks? what is sin?

@Davidylan: « #20 on: Yesterday at 01:59:03 PM »
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Mazaje is not someone i'D consider wise. He thinks by posting tomes of incredulous mumbo jumbo he has made us see reason.
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I asked the question about begotten son, sometimes in the past. Who is the mother of this begotten son, the woman who should therefore be the wife/spouse of the father who beget the begotten son? But justcool raised other issues when he used the american professor to explain away this absurd notion.

He stated that they sent only one, because they would have depleted their pool of professors, if it was, say 1000! Then I will summize that there are more than one begotten son, if not 1000 of them. But he also suggested that they could have killed him, if he was sent to other place, except to the Jews, who were the only ones familiar with God, because of their experinces with many past prophets.


But there was existing long time the notion of prophethood, before the Jews; Adam, Enoch, Noah, Ibrahim, Ismail, Isaac and others were prophets before Jacob, the father of Judah, whose name Judaism or Jew was derived! Could the Almighty God be afraid that a group from His own creations, will kill Him? Is God ever afraid of even more powerful genie or the most powerful of all of His known creations, the Angels? If human can kill a thing, please note that whatever that was killed can never be Almighty! Only a horrible mind will ever suggest something like that!






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I think the person "grasping at straws" here is indeed you. The argument "if He is God why didnt He send Himself to the whole world AT ONCE" is frankly stupid and suggestive of someone just looking for excuses where there is none. The bible is frankly clear about WHY God chose to come in thatfashion.
When i was a child i also used to wonder . . . why did Christ not just come and overthrow the Roman empire that was colonising Israel at that time?

Eventually i understood the reason, it had been in the bible all along . . .
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I was waiting for your explanation that you finally got about why Jesus did not overthrow the Romans. Instead, you digress to some silliness of belief! Did the roman believe him, shortly after his alleged death? Up till now, has a significant amount of the Jews believed in him? Both questions have a common answer, NO!

if God had come to the whole world AT ONCE as foolish people like Mazaje like to say, it would have made nonsense of the NEED for "he that believeth . . ." because everyone would have had no choice but to believe.
Salvation is not by force, it is a matter of choice and faith . . . faith that what Christ has promised He is able to perform . . . that was why He chose to come in the form of a lowly child in a manger.

Cowdung! Considering that even today, the Christians, 100% can not guarantee their own christian "Heaven," with "Faith," alone! Would the verse about not abolishing the laws and the prophets of the old testament, be irrelevant, if this was the case? Since it says that some (Pail and CO), will be least in the kingdom of heaven!

Will the verse lord, lord we prophetised in your name, be irrelevant, if all the faithful can guarantee their heavens, just by faith alone? Where should we leave the verse that needed no explanation or intepretation, because it is so clear? What therefore is the message of Mark 12 verse 29; Your Lord and my Lord is but One God? Is Jesus ever the Lord or God here, David?

If I could make a few comments:

olabowale:

I asked the question about begotten son, sometimes in the past. Who is the mother of this begotten son, the woman who should therefore be the wife/spouse of the father who beget the begotten son? But justcool raised other issues when he used the american professor to explain away this absurd notion.

The Biblical teaching of divine sonship is never once projected to mean that Mary was therefore the wife/spouse of the Father. It is indeed absurd to keep forcing your own preconceptions into the prophets' teachings and assume what you have forever been unable to defend.

My simple enquiry remains the same: where is it ever stated that the mother of Jesus is "therefore" the wife/spouse of the Father? Where did the prophets ever once project such an idea?

olabowale:

But there was existing long time the notion of prophethood, before the Jews; Adam, Enoch, Noah, Ibrahim, Ismail, Isaac and others were prophets before Jacob, the father of Judah, whose name Judaism or Jew was derived!

And what about Isaiah, Zechariah, Micah, Malachi and Jeremiah - were they not prophets as well? Why is ISAIAH a problem to Islamic theorists?

olabowale:
Could the Almighty God be afraid that a group from His own creations, will kill Him? Is God ever afraid of even more powerful genie or the most powerful of all of His known creations, the Angels? If human can kill a thing, please note that whatever that was killed can never be Almighty! Only a horrible mind will ever suggest something like that!

Can we also say that a "thing" that can be hurt is also not God? Are you forgetting that it is "sahih" (i.e., "authentic Islamic teaching" that a nameless son of Adam hurt the 'God' of Islam?

olabowale:

Up till now, has a significant amount of the Jews believed in him? Both questions have a common answer, NO!

It's such a pity you live in self-denial. How many Jews do you count as "significant amount" by the clear evidence of the following verses:

MANY believed in His name - John 2:23

MANY believed on him - John 8:30

And MANY believed on him there - John 10:42

Nevertheless among the chief rulers also MANY believed on him - John 12:42

When you read all the above carefully in their context, you find that the "MANY" who believed in Jesus were actually JEWS! (see the following for example: John 2:20, 8:31, and 10:22-23.

And if you want a direct quote to elucidate the point, sample the following in John 11:45 -

[list]Then MANY of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on Him.[/list]

Even in contemporary times, we know how many Jews are daily beliving that Jesus Christ is the Messiah? The answer should have been obvious with a little updated check done sincerely.

olabowale:

Will the verse lord, lord we prophetised in your name, be irrelevant, if all the faithful can guarantee their heavens, just by faith alone?

Did you happen to even read it in its context?

olabowale:

What therefore is the message of Mark 12 verse 29; Your Lord and my Lord is but One God?

Where did you get the idea that Muhammad actually believed that he was worshipping the same God as the Jews and Christians? Please consult the Quran again and let's know what you missed.

Cheers.

Moslems and christains don come high-jack the thread dey argue with each other. . . . . . . . .

mazaje:

Moslems and christains don come high-jack the thread dey argue with each other. . . . . . . . .

I just realized that a separate motherboard has been created for Muslim discussions - and one should wonder why that is insufficient for the Muslim gentelman who has done the 'highjacking'.

@Mazaje: I have many children calling me Dad! But only two are sired by me. So these two bear my family name. The rest bear the family names of the people who sired them, who mounted or overshadowed their mothers. Am I truly the father of the other children who were sired by others? Absolutely not.

If I claim therefore that I sired the children, apart from mine two, then I must have not really meant it in the true nature of how human understands it. The children do know that am not truly their father. If their mothers are not my wives just before they took in, then I have performed illegal sex acts or for sure, those who claim that am their father among them, along with their mother who planted such idea into their heads have not told us the truth. Considering that I did not mount or overshadow any of the mothers! I can not see how it can be humanly possible.

Many, is more than 1. But when it is in the context of today's Children of Israel population of over 13 M, worldwide, the many must be insignificant! By an large, the Kennessett of Isael has no Christian Jewish member! The Jews have only One God. The Jews don't have more than that. They may say that they believe in jest, which many reform jews do, but they will never claim that God is more than 1!

Hurt could mean disappointed. Allah is disappointed in the children of Adam, who are able to do for others, in a way of seeking the pleasure of God, or for God's sake, but refuse to do so. Thats what is meant by hurt here. Not that there is a need for soothing or dressing up a wound, because of the hurt. Allah is Greater and Holier than that. It is His way of telling believers, you are obligated, from the sustenance that you have to care for the less fortunate, for Allah's sake. God is free of all needs.

olabowale:

Am I truly the father of the other children who were sired by others? Absolutely not.

When speaking about the Messiah or about our relationship with God, the prophets did not use the terms "beget/begotten" to mean "sexual intercourse" or "sire". If they did, please simply show where they did so.

If after several pages of your own argument you have not been able to show this, one wonders at your claim for "telling the truth".

olabowale:

@Mazaje: I have many children calling me Dad! But only two are sired by me. So these two bear my family name. The rest bear the family names of the people who sired them, who mounted or overshadowed their mothers. Am I truly the father of the other children who were sired by others? Absolutely not.

If I claim therefore that I sired the children, apart from mine two, then I must have not really meant it in the true nature of how human understands it. The children do know that am not truly their father. If their mothers are not my wives just before they took in, then I have performed illegal sex acts or for sure, those who claim that am their father among them, along with their mother who planted such idea into their heads have not told us the truth. Considering that I did not mount or overshadow any of the mothers! I can not see how it can be humanly possible.

Many, is more than 1. But when it is in the context of today's Children of Israel population of over 13 M, worldwide, the many must be insignificant! By an large, the Kennessett of Isael has no Christian Jewish member! The Jews have only One God. The Jews don't have more than that. They may say that they believe in jest, which many reform jews do, but they will never claim that God is more than 1!

Hurt could mean disappointed. Allah is disappointed in the children of Adam, who are able to do for others, in a way of seeking the pleasure of God, or for God's sake, but refuse to do so. Thats what is meant by hurt here. Not that there is a need for soothing or dressing up a wound, because of the hurt. Allah is Greater and Holier than that. It is His way of telling believers, you are obligated, from the sustenance that you have to care for the less fortunate, for Allah's sake. God is free of all needs.

Kai olabowale don't teach me nonsense keep your delusions to your self. what the heck are you even saying? its always the jews and the christains abi? they are they misguided ones who need allah's mercy abi? keep on deluding your self. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Will somebody be bold enough to explain to us what is meant by beget/begotten in the Bible? Please use easy to understand english. Am eager to read from any pundit. Davidylan and Queenisha, where are you?

@Mazaje: Take a crack at the beget/begotten idea from the Bible. Hey man, I want you to try to convince me. I wanna get out of what you call state of delutional. Can you help and please explain away? You can do it, can you? Its all a farce! Abi? lol,

olabowale:

Will somebody be bold enough to explain to us what is meant by beget/begotten in the Bible?

Can you be bold enough to swallow your dishonesty and read what David, Moses and Ethan said when they used the terms? WHERE did they talk about "sexual intercourse"?

mazaje:

they are they misguided ones who needs allahs mercy abi? keep on deluding your self. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Interesting.

@Mazaje: I am shocked that you did not take a crack at the begotten/beget child/son notion! Interesting, indeed. This na the way you guys do am? You left leprosy and you intensify your treatment of mere temporary skin ailment. Omo 9ja!