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| Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by deleo16(m): 10:25am On Jun 15, 2012 |
We have only one mediator between God and man jesus christ 1timothy2vs 5-6 and jesus even told us in is word to cast out problems and sickness in is name Mark 16Vs17, so did peter in Act 3vs 6 since mary was not alive then peter should also have ask mary to pray for them which none of the them did not or mentioned in the bible from peter to paul,nowhere in the bible is an expection made for mary,jesus had to die on the cross to obtain salvation for mary just has he did. For everybody else and to the doctrine stating that mary was without sin is a new doctrine Rom3vs10-23 there is none righteous no not one for all have sinned .i want to make clear statement here i am not writing out of hatred or prejudice am saying here that know THE WORD OF GOD OURSELF BY READING THE BIBLE(ref the holy bible and prepare for war by Rebecca brown MD) |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by Nobody: 11:09am On Jun 15, 2012 |
[/quote][quote] deleo16: We have only one mediator between God and man jesus christ 1timothy2vs 5-6 and jesus even told us in is word to cast out problems and sickness in is name,nowhere in the bible is an expection made for mary,jesus had to die on the cross to obtain salvation for mary just has he did. For everybody else and to the doctrine stating that mary was born without sin is a new doctrine. Rom3vs 10-23 there is none righteous no not one for all have sinned .I want to make a clear statement I am not writing out of hatred or prejudice am saying here that WE MUST KNOW THE WORD OF GOD OURSELF BY READING THE BIBLE.(Ref the holy bible and prepare for war by Rebecca brown MD Mary is no mediator between God and man rather she directs her prayers to Jesus just in same way your pastors pray to Jesus for you.Why is that so hard for you to understand.Besides Mary is not the only one having this privilege so why put her on the spotlight. To your other points I am yet to see a catholic casting out any demon or problem in the name of Mary,it is not a teaching of the catholic faith. The teaching of the immaculate conception is another point you raised,the fact that Jesus got his human existence from Mary presupposes that is should be a perfect source. 1 Like |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by simon2x1: 11:36am On Jun 15, 2012 |
OP that is the gospel truth what catholic do not know is that they are not practising christianity (Christ like) they are practising religious which is man made law that is canal and canality lead to dead. How can something crave an image of mary and pray through it when the bible say u should pray to GOD through the name of jesus so how is this difference from those that pray to/through idol one of the problem is way are to lazy to read the bible but not lazy to read newspaper or magazine. C this are one of the way evil spirit enter into people life they use: 1. Any image u crave to pray through/to or worship if u like crave the image of jesus and pray or worship through it (jesus is not there he is on the right hand of God). 2. Anything u lover too much they can use that to get into you. 3. Your bad habit(drinking, self-service and other) THIS IS MY POINT KNOW THE WORD UR SELF EVERY BODY IS ACCESSABLE TO GOD NEVER PRAISE ANY PASTOR/ BISHOP(them too fit go hell) THEY ARE ALL TITLE AND HUMAN NEVER FORGET THAT SO BE WISE. This are the thread that should make home |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by italo: 2:40pm On Jun 15, 2012 |
deleo16: We have only one mediator between God and man jesus christ 1timothy2vs 5-6 and jesus even told us in is word to cast out problems and sickness in is name Mark 16Vs17, so did peter in Act 3vs 6 since mary was not alive then peter should also have ask mary to pray for them which none of the them did not or mentioned in the bible from peter to paul,nowhere in the bible is an expection made for mary,jesus had to die on the cross to obtain salvation for mary just has he did. For everybody else and to the doctrine stating that mary was We do not only ask for the intercession of Mary. We ask for the intercession of all saints and angels, holy people and even unholy people e.g: priests, sisters, pastors, friends and relatives. So what is your problem? Is it that we ask for 'intercession', or that we ask MARY for intercession? |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by mcstan18(m): 2:29am On Jun 16, 2012 |
That is idolatory a its peak. God does not permit such worship. Only through Jesus can you have access to the father(John14:6) and for those of t dat believe your Mary will go to Jesus on your behalf(because she was His earthly mum), why wouldn't u read ur bible and leave those bulletins. Jesus has given a direct invitation to all that is heavy ladden...(matt 11:28) and nt thru some 'Mary'. Remember, Jesus made us to understand that there's nothing like father, mother, wife,... in heaven, so why worship blindly? These were demonic doctrines that origingated from Rome long ago, I was an ardent catholic before now so I know what I'm sayinh. Besides, the apostles of old never prayed these rosaries you pray today thinking you're worshipping God. As a matter of fact, you ignorantly worship a powerful demon called the queen of heaven. BE WISE BRETHREN!!!! 1 Like |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by italo: 2:08pm On Jun 16, 2012 |
mcstan_18: That is idolatory a its peak. God does not permit such worship. Only through Jesus can you have access to the father(John14:6) and for those of t dat believe your Mary will go to Jesus on your behalf(because she was His earthly mum), why wouldn't u read ur bible and leave those bulletins. Jesus has given a direct invitation to all that is heavy ladden...(matt 11:28) and nt thru some 'Mary'. Remember, Jesus made us to understand that there's nothing like father, mother, wife,... in heaven, so why worship blindly? These were demonic doctrines that origingated from Rome long ago, I was an ardent catholic before now so I know what I'm sayinh. Besides, the apostles of old never prayed these rosaries you pray today thinking you're worshipping God. As a matter of fact, you ignorantly worship a powerful demon called the queen of heaven. BE WISE BRETHREN!!!! We do not only ask for the intercession of Mary. We ask for the intercession of all saints and angels, holy people and even unholy people e.g: priests, sisters, pastors, friends and relatives. So what is your problem? Is it that we ask for 'intercession', or that we ask MARY for intercession? |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by ijawkid(m): 3:56pm On Jun 16, 2012 |
italo: Italo the defender... U too much..lol |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by Rich4god(m): 6:42pm On Jun 16, 2012 |
Abeg... Make una leave our Mother alone. Which among you would say that you have not asked your pastor,friends or brethen to pray for you... |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by italo: 7:49pm On Jun 16, 2012 |
ijawkid: My brother, wetin I go do? As attackers come too much nko...lol |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by deleo16(m): 8:07pm On Jun 16, 2012 |
Rich4god: Abeg... Make una leave our Mother alone. Which among you would say that you have not asked your pastor,friends or brethen to pray for you...assuming is your bishop to pray for using jesus name is ok and at least we see your bishop,and he is still alive jesus died and rose from the died and sent the holyspirit in our mist to lead us and guide us, as we meditate on his word. he never told paul to pray in this manner"holy mary mother of jesus pray for us" lets me give you a typical way Steve prayed Act 7 vs 59 he siad lord jesus receive my spirit then he knees down he cried out with a strong voice "jehovah do not charge this sin against them after saying this he slept .now tell me why did he tell mary to pray for him steve prayed for does that stone him .Anainas prayed for saul to receive is sight act 9 did ananias told mary to pray for him so as to heal paul, we have direct access to God ourself dont ask mary she is dead physically to pray on our behalf, we see our own pastor before we tell me to pray for us . Ask me why cant we also ask for prophet elisha or samuel or noah or abraham to pray for us? |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by italo: 4:40am On Jun 17, 2012 |
deleo16: You are contradicting yourself. You say we have direct access to God, but you say it's okay for bishops or pastors to pray for us. Since you have direct access to God, why do you still ask your pastor to pray for you? And why didnt Paul pray for himself to receive his sight? How do you know the Holy Spirit never told St. Paul to say "holy Mary, mother of Jesus, pray for us?" When everything that happened wasn't written in the Bible? Was that St. Stephen's only prayer in his lifetime? How do you know whether he did or did not pray through Mary at other times in his life when the Bible didnt record everything that happened? |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by deleo16(m): 6:05am On Jun 17, 2012 |
[quote author=italo] You are contradicting yourself. You say we have direct access to God, but you say it's okay for bishops or pastors to pray for us. Since you have direct access to God, why do you still ask your pastor to pray for you? And why didnt Paul pray for himself to receive his sight? How do you know the Holy Spirit never told St. Paul to say "holy Mary, mother of Jesus, pray for us?" When everything that happened wasn't written in the Bible? Was that St. Stephen's only prayer @italo dont add to what has been writing in the bible by telling us is that the only prayer steven prayed we must not add or remove from what has been stated or the instruction given to us already in the bible not contradicting anthing here get my point accept it that is a new doctrine the question i am asking you is why ask mary that is dead physically to intercede on your behalf ? does that prayed for people then were alive paul,anainas,steve.why did paul ask mary to intercede for him then but mary has died already then when paul began his ministry or teaching. |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by Rich4god(m): 6:17am On Jun 17, 2012 |
deleo16:My brother, there is nothing wrong in telling a christian brother to pray for you, whether dead or alive... Cos death in christianity is not the end of life. For e.g, when i was a kid, a have a very nice uncle that is always takes care of me. I always tell him to pray for me... and even now that he is dead, i didnt see the reason why i should stop asking him for prayers just because he is dead. 1 Like |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by luvinhubby(m): 8:19am On Jun 17, 2012 |
The second commandment of Moses in Ex. 20 vs 4 says u shall not make for yourself any graven image of the likeness of anything in heaven above, on earth beneath or in waters beneath the earth. But the catholic church removed that completely as the second commandment and replaced it the third and split the the ninth commandment into two to make it ten. Check the roman catholic cathecism booklet u will see it there. |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by Umartins1(m): 9:20am On Jun 17, 2012 |
How can people be sooo stupid as this? Are you compromising the powers of the Holy Mother of God?? What exactly is wrong with we chritians?? Hardly can you see muslims of different denominations going against one another. Why cant we learn tolerance?? The law of the land even gives everyone the 'right to religion and beliefs'. So, leave everyone to his beliefs. Mary is the first DISCIPLE of our Lord Jesus Christ. You may be suprised but the reason is 'SHE ACCEPTED THE ANNOUNCIATION MESSAGE WITHOUT DOUBT'. Dont you read the bible? About the first miracle of Christ. The people's voice was interceded for by our Mother. Jesus didn't know how to turn the people's request down(though its not yet his time for a miracle) because his mother begged. Believe it or not, Catholics honour Mary and they do not worship. Bowing before Mary's statue is no form of idolatory. Its our beliefs as Catholics. If your belief is bowing before a paper, you're good to go, inasmuch as it pleases you. What is the probability that CHRISTIANITY will even land us in heaven? Dont get me wrong. Does it mean any religion other than Xtianity will lead one to HELL?? |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by ijawkid(m): 9:28am On Jun 17, 2012 |
Umartins1: How can people be sooo stupid as this? Are you compromising the powers of the Holy Mother of God?? What exactly is wrong with we chritians?? Hardly can you see muslims of different denominations going against one another. Why cant we learn tolerance?? The law of the land even gives everyone the 'right to religion and beliefs'. So, leave everyone to his beliefs. And u bow down to her image too... I guess that's what christianity is about too?? My lil prob is all these mary pray for us,bow down to her image,mary this ,mary that all started just because paganism has enveloped christendom.... Wanting to allign paganism with christianity... If not what is mary doing in worship procedures?? If d early christians didn't do it,then why are professed christians doing it.?? How many times was mary's name mentioned amongst d 1st century christians more or else she been worshipped or acting as a mediator for Christ?? Its tiring... All this is just to satisfy mans quest for idolatry...... Abeg I tire!!! 1 Like |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by Umartins1(m): 10:40am On Jun 17, 2012 |
ijawkid: the greatest sin is the sin against Holy Spirit. Blasphemy is a sin God doesn't forgives easily. |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by simon2x1: 11:34am On Jun 17, 2012 |
@Umartins1 u r very funny I can't see the level of ur understanding in your comment I want to ask you some questions what is your understanding of these verse John 14 :13-14 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. Exodus 20 : 4 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth Cos it is so clear from this world that I just pasted now. see we r not fighting or trying to condemn your church but we what u to see and know the truth the problem with u people is dat u leave everything to ur bishop n church u do not read more of the bible urself God what to have a relationship with u one on one also. The probability to we will land in heaven is this verse Romans 10:9 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. See what a former catholic discover and wrote www.biblebelievers.com/bennett/bennett_mary-worship.html |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by italo: 11:56am On Jun 17, 2012 |
deleo16: @italo dont add to what has been writing in the bible by telling us is that the only prayer steven prayed we must not add or remove from what has been stated or the instruction given to us already in the bible not contradicting anthing here get my point accept it that is a new doctrine the question i am asking you is why ask mary that is dead physically to intercede on your behalf ? does that prayed for people then were alive paul,anainas,steve.why did paul ask mary to intercede for him then but mary has died already then when paul began his ministry or teaching. I don't what you mean by 'adding or removing', I only asked if that was the only prayer St. Stephen prayed in his life as a Christian. The answer should be "yes", "no" or "I don't know". Simple! How do you know Mary had died when Paul began his ministry? Is that written in the Bible? You said that all those who prayed for people were alive? Then look at Rev 5:8: The prayers of the saints (on heaven and earth) are presented to God by the angels and saints in heaven. This shows that the saints intercede on our behalf before God, and it also demonstrates that our prayers on earth are united with their prayers in heaven. (The “24 elders” are said to refer to the people of God – perhaps the 12 tribes and 12 apostles - and the “four living creatures” are said to refer to the angels.) So tell me, these 24 elders and four living creatures, are they "alive" like your pastor or are they "dead" like Mary? |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by italo: 12:01pm On Jun 17, 2012 |
luvinhubby: The second commandment of Moses in Ex. 20 vs 4 says u shall not make for yourself any graven image of the likeness of anything in heaven above, on earth beneath or in waters beneath the earth. Sometimes you wonder if people are so blind that they cannot see the topic of discussion or they are so illiterate that they see it but cannot read it or they are so daft that they see and read it but cannot understand it. The topic is "MARY INTERCEDING on behalf of Catholics" |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by italo: 12:08pm On Jun 17, 2012 |
ijawkid: How do you know the early Christians didn't do it? Does the Bible contain the records of everything the early Christians did? Besides, the early Christians didn't have the Bible, much less read it, why do you read it? Oh sorry, you're not a Christian, are you? |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by italo: 12:40pm On Jun 17, 2012 |
simon2x1: what is your understanding of these verse Then why do you ask other people to pray for you? simon2x1: Exodus 20 : 4 Exodus 25:18-22; 26:1,31 - for example, God commands the making of the image of a golden cherubim. Num. 21:8-9 - God also commands the making of the bronze serpent. Did God command them to commit idolatory? simon2x1: Cos it is so clear from this world that I just pasted now. see we r not fighting or trying to condemn your church but we what u to see and know the truth the problem with u people is dat u leave everything to ur bishop n church u do not read more of the bible urself God what to have a relationship with u one on one also.No, I have shown you that you have made nothing clear. The problem with you people is that you confuse yourselves when you read the Bible and ignore the interpretations of our Bishops even though they were the ones that created, compiled and canonized the Bible. God wants you to be a part of his Church, not the church of one crook who lies that God told him in a dream to open a church so that he can scam ignorant and foolish people, collect their money and make them sheep without shepherd. simon2x1: The probability to we will land in heaven is this verse Romans 10:9 Does that mean that demons will go to heaven? They also believe that God raised Jesus and confess that Jesus is Lord. simon2x1: See what a former catholic discover and wrote You believe that because that is what suits you gullible thinking. If I gave you a link to what a convert from protestantism to catholicism said, would you believe it? |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by ijawkid(m): 1:25pm On Jun 17, 2012 |
italo: Italo u don come again abi.....?? So u wanna use the ""not everytin"" was written in d bible analogy to run away from this 1.... No do o.... I'm a bible student... Ok if u say all what d apostles did culd nt be contained in d bible,historians are well available to tell us how those men lived there lives...... So no escape route on this.... We all know exactly when this mary worship dogma was instigated...lol Italo my brother... |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by italo: 2:11pm On Jun 17, 2012 |
ijawkid: Me, run away? Never! Rather you're the one running away from my simple questions as usual. How do you know the early Christians didn't pray through Mary? Does the Bible have records of everything the early Christians did? And why are you a Bible student when the early Christians didn't have the Bible. ijawkid: Ok if u say all what d apostles did culd nt be contained in d bible,historians are well available to tell us how those men lived there lives...... It is not "if I say." Could everything the apostles did be contained in the Bible? Answer! Yes or no. And if you take the word of historians, that means you are affirming that we can refer to extra-biblical sources on matters of faith. Agreed? So no escape route on this.... ijawkid: We all know exactly when this mary worship dogma was instigated...lol Since you are the only one that knows, then you are the worshipper |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by deleo16(m): 2:13pm On Jun 17, 2012 |
@italo that shows that u re a good listener we can't really say mary was died or alive during paul ministry bible didn't tell us. The last time mary was mention in the bible was in ACT 1vs 13 vs 14. I will only type verse 14 with one accord all these. Were persisting in prayer together with some women and mary the mother of jesus and with is brother. Yes stephen prayed as a christian and the only ref that the bible told us and manner that he prayed is what we must follow ACT 7 vs 59. And to rev 5 vs 8 u didn't read it from the begin don't just bring the verse just to defend your argument REV 5 told us how God show John things to come there was this stroll in which no one was able to open it. Sealed. Vs 3 neither in heaven nor upon heaven nor upon earth was able to upon it. John wept then one of the elders said why cry the lion of the tribe of judah the root of David can open it. VS 8 they prayed after the the stroll was taken. then comes then they prayed using harps revelation is a prophet chapter God show to to john .john didn't pray asking the saint to pray on behalf of him he saw shown this to come a prophesy don't misquote it MY QUESTION IS THAT SINCE THEY WERE GATHERING AS SAINT WHY DID THEY ASK MARY TO INTERCEDE FOR THEM?OR JESUS WOULD HAVE TOLD US THAT Everybody SHOULD ASK MARY TO INTERCEDE FOR THEM WHY NOT OTHER SAINT? This is new doctrine. Which is false a dogma by the. Catholic .remember jOHN 14vs14 u can read all if you want. These is not an argument to Win is just a good advice for you and other christian also is to know the word yourself if any body tell u contrary to what is in bible is a false doctrine. |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by italo: 5:00pm On Jun 17, 2012 |
deleo16: @italo that shows that u re a good listener we can't really say mary was died or alive during paul ministry bible didn't tell us. The last time mary was mention in the bible was in ACT 1vs 13 vs 14. I will only type verse 14 with one accord all these. Were persisting in prayer together with some women and mary the mother of jesus and with is brother. Yes stephen prayed as a christian and the only ref that the bible told us and manner that he prayed is what we must follow ACT 7 vs 59. And to rev 5 vs 8 u didn't read it from the begin don't just bring the verse just to defend your argument REV 5 told us how God show John things to come there was this stroll in which no one was able to open it. Sealed. Vs 3 neither in heaven nor upon heaven nor upon earth was able to upon it. John wept then one of the elders said why cry the lion of the tribe of judah the root of David can open it. VS 8 they prayed after the the stroll was taken. then comes then they prayed using harps revelation is a prophet chapter God show to to john .john didn't pray asking the saint to pray on behalf of him he saw shown this to come a prophesy don't misquote it MY QUESTION IS THAT SINCE THEY WERE GATHERING AS SAINT WHY DID THEY ASK MARY TO INTERCEDE FOR THEM?OR JESUS WOULD HAVE TOLD US THAT Everybody SHOULD ASK MARY TO INTERCEDE FOR THEM WHY NOT OTHER SAINT? This is new doctrine. Which is false a dogma by the. Catholic .remember jOHN 14vs14 u can read all if you want. These is not an argument to Win is just a good advice for you and other christian also is to know the word yourself if any body tell u contrary to what is in bible is a false doctrine. Mr man, answer my questions. Idont have time for long stories. I don't what you mean by 'adding or removing', I only asked if that was the only prayer St. Stephen prayed in his life as a Christian. The answer should be "yes", "no" or "I don't know". Simple! You said that all those who prayed for people were alive? Then look at Rev 5:8: The prayers of the saints (on heaven and earth) are presented to God by the angels and saints in heaven. This shows that the saints intercede on our behalf before God, and it also demonstrates that our prayers on earth are united with their prayers in heaven. (The “24 elders” are said to refer to the people of God – perhaps the 12 tribes and 12 apostles - and the “four living creatures” are said to refer to the angels.) So tell me, these 24 elders and four living creatures, are they "alive" like your pastor or are they "dead" like Mary? |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by ijawkid(m): 6:37pm On Jun 17, 2012 |
italo: Oboy all d basics and fundamentals. Of christianity were recorded....especially when it involves worship.. Italo this ya mentality is not correct... U can't run away from a major dogma u guys hold on to with d ""not everytin was recorded in d bible"" I mean why then do we have d bible if we can just worship God the way we like?? We have a blue print already provided,why don't we jus follow it closely... Now ur asking me how am I sure if d apostles didn't pray thru mary...... Soon I might start praying thru micheal Jackson to get to God since we can't tell if d apostles did pray thru prominent persons @ dat time... Change this ur mentality o..... |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by italo: 8:37pm On Jun 17, 2012 |
ijawkid: Why are all of you always dodging my questions? I repeat: How do you know the early Christians didn't pray through Mary? Does the Bible have records of everything the early Christians did? And why are you a Bible student when the early Christians didn't have the Bible. It is not "if I say." Could everything the apostles did be contained in the Bible? Answer! Yes or no. And if you take the word of historians, that means you are affirming that we can refer to extra-biblical sources on matters of faith. Agreed? |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by proo212(m): 10:40pm On Jun 17, 2012 |
Stepping in into the discussion, Mr Italo, we have had this, countless number of times with Plappville. If the disciples and apostles prayed through Mary, you bet someone like Luke or even Peter or Paul would have recorded it. I also remember trying to explain that the grave of Apostle Peter is not in Rome because he never set foot in Rome. His grave is in Israel and quick search will establish that. This you know but you choose to ignore. Remember before Christ ascended, He promised the comforter, advocate, the Spirit of truth who would bring to the remembrance of the disciples what Christ taught. The apostles would have been directed to pray through Mary by the leading of the Spirit. As someone rightly pointed out, the last time Mary was mentioned was in the book of Acts. |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by mcstan18(m): 12:07am On Jun 18, 2012 |
luvinhubby: The second commandment of Moses in Ex. 20 vs 4 says u shall not make for yourself any graven image of the likeness of anything in heaven above, on earth beneath or in waters beneath the earth. Just on point. Mind u guys, there's no such thing as mother in heaven. Mary has no authority in heaven whatsoever, even the angels don't- all power and authority belongs to God. In Rev22:8, d angel commanded John not to bow b4 him but to God alone(a celestial being that has been there with God even b4 creation) and then u guys accord such worship in oblivion to Mary when she recognized Jesus as her saviour(my soul doth magnifies the Lord, and my spirit shall rejoice in God my saviour). Understand this one fact, if Mary hadn't lived a holy life on earth, she'ld have been in hell today because God is no respecter of persons. You ignorantly worship the queen of heaven. I rest my case. |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by italo: 4:59am On Jun 18, 2012 |
proo212: Stepping in into the discussion, Mr Italo, we have had this, countless number of times with Plappville. If the disciples and apostles prayed through Mary, you bet someone like Luke or even Peter or Paul would have recorded it. I also remember trying to explain that the grave of Apostle Peter is not in Rome because he never set foot in Rome. His grave is in Israel and quick search will establish that. This you know but you choose to ignore. In John Chapter 2, Mary prayed on behalf of the celebrants to Jesus and even though he wasnt ready to reveal his glory, he performed the Miracle; only because his Mother asked him to. You were "trying" to explain but you didnt explain reasonably nor successfully. I dont ignore anything because you havent shown me where the Bible says that St. Peter never set foot in Rome or that his grave is in Israel. Please do that now. proo212: Remember before Christ ascended, He promised the comforter, advocate, the Spirit of truth who would bring to the remembrance of the disciples what Christ taught. Is there any where the Bible says that "apostles were directed not to pray through Mary?" Show me. And was everything that happened in the time of the Apostles written down in the Bible? If the last time Mary was spoken of was in the book of Acts, what does that prove? att. 17:1-3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30-31 – deceased Moses and Elijah appear at the Transfiguration to converse with Jesus in the presence of Peter, James and John (these may be the two “witnesses” John refers to in Rev. 11:3). Nothing in Scripture ever suggests that God abhors or cuts off communication between the living in heaven and the living on earth. To the contrary, God encourages communication within the communion of saints. Moses and Elijah’s appearance on earth also teach us that the saints in heaven have capabilities that far surpass our limitations on earth. Matt. 26:53 – Jesus says He can call upon the assistance of twelve legions of angels. If Jesus said He could ask for the assistance of angel saints, then so can we, who are called to imitate Jesus in word and in deed. And, in Matt. 22:30, Jesus says we will be “like angels in heaven.” This means human saints (like the angel saints) can be called upon to assist people on earth. God allows and encourages this interaction between his family members. Matt. 27:47,49; Mark 15:35-36 – the people believe that Jesus calls on Elijah for his intercession, and waits to see if Elijah would come to save Jesus on the cross. Matt. 27:52-53 - at Jesus' passion, many saints were raised and went into the city to appear and presumably interact with the people, just as Jesus did after His resurrection. John 2:3 - Jesus knew the wine was gone, but invites and responds to Mary's intercession. God desires our lesser mediation and responds to it because He is a living and loving God. John 2:5 - Mary intercedes on behalf of those at the wedding feast and tells them to do whatever Jesus tells them. Because Mary is our perfect model of faith, we too intercede on behalf of our brothers and sisters. John 2:11 - in fact, it was Mary's intercession that started Jesus' ministry. His hour had not yet come, yet Jesus responds to Mary's intercession. Even though He could do it all by Himself, God wants to work with His children. Rom. 15:30 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for him. If we are united together in the one body of Christ, we can help each other. 2 Cor. 1:11 - Paul even suggests that the more prayers and the more people who pray, the merrier! Prayer is even more effective when united with other's prayers. 2 Cor. 9:14 - Paul says that the earthly saints pray for the Corinthians. They are subordinate mediators in Christ. 2 Cor. 13:7,9 - Paul says the elders pray that the Corinthians may do right and improve. They participate in Christ's mediation Eph. 6:18 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for each other. Eph. 6:19 - Paul commands that the Ephesians pray for him. If there is only one mediator, why would Paul ask for their prayers? Phil. 1:19 - Paul acknowledges power of Philippians' earthly intercession. He will be delivered by their prayers and the Holy Spirit. Col. 1:3 - Paul says that he and the elders pray for the Colossians. They are subordinate mediators in the body of Christ. Col. 1:9 - Paul says that he and the elders have not ceased to pray for the Colossians, and that, by interceding, they may gain wisdom. Col. 4:4 - Paul commands the Colossians to pray for the elders of the Church so that God may open a door for the word. Why doesn't Paul just leave it up to God? Because subordinate mediation is acceptable and pleasing to God, and brings about change in the world. This is as mysterious as the Incarnation, but it is true. 1 Thess. 5:25 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for the elders of the Church. He desires our subordinate mediation. 2 Thess. 1:11 - Paul tells the family of God that he prays for us. We participate in Christ's mediation because Christ desires this. 2 Thess. 3:1 - Paul asks the Thessalonians to pray for Him, Silvanus and Timothy so that they may be delivered. 1 Tim. 2:1-3 - Paul commands us to pray for all. Paul also states that these prayers are acceptable in the sight of God. 2 Tim. 1:3 – Paul says “I remember you constantly in my prayers.” Philemon 22 - Paul is hoping through Philemon's intercession that he may be able to be with Philemon. Hebrews 13:18-19 - the author strongly urges the Hebrews to pray for the elders so that they act desirably in all things. James 5:14-15- James says the prayer of the priests over the sick man will save the sick man and forgive his sins. This is a powerful example of men forgiving sins and bringing a person to salvation with the sacrament of the sick. James 5:16 - James instructs us to confess our sins to one another and pray for one another so that we may be healed. James 5:17-18 - James refers to God's response to Elijah's fervent prayer for no rain. He is teaching us about the effectiveness of our earthly mediation. 3 John 2 - John prays for Gaius' health and thus acts as a subordinate mediator. Rev. 1:4 – this verse shows that angels (here, the seven spirits) give grace and peace. Because grace and peace only come from God, the angels are acting as mediators for God. Rev. 5:8 - the prayers of the saints (on heaven and earth) are presented to God by the angels and saints in heaven. This shows that the saints intercede on our behalf before God, and it also demonstrates that our prayers on earth are united with their prayers in heaven. (The “24 elders” are said to refer to the people of God – perhaps the 12 tribes and 12 apostles - and the “four living creatures” are said to refer to the angels.) Rev. 6:9-11 – the martyred saints in heaven cry out in a loud voice to God to avenge their blood “on those who dwell upon the earth.” These are “imprecatory prayers,” which are pleas for God’s judgment (see similar prayers in Psalm 35:1; 59:1-17; 139:19; Jer. 11:20; 15:15; 18:19; Zech.1:12-13). This means that the saints in heaven are praying for those on earth, and God answers their prayers (Rev. 8:1-5). We, therefore, ask for their intercession and protection. Rev. 8:3-4 – in heaven an angel mingles incense with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne of God, and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God. These prayers “rise up” before God and elicit various kinds of earthly activity. God responds to his children’s requests, whether made by his children on earth or in heaven. |
| Re: Mary Interceding On Behalf Of Catholic by italo: 5:10am On Jun 18, 2012 |
mcstan_18: Nobody is arguing that Mary has authority in heaven. Did anyone tell you that? If you say there is no such thing as mother in heaven, then where is Mary? Hell? mcstan_18: In Rev22:8, d angel commanded John not to bow b4 him but to God alone(a celestial being that has been there with God even b4 creation) and then u guys accord such worship in oblivion to Mary when she recognized Jesus as her saviour(my soul doth magnifies the Lord, and my spirit shall rejoice in God my saviour). Does that mean that all yorubas who prostate to their elders are worshipping them? mcstan_18: Understand this one fact, if Mary hadn't lived a holy life on earth, she'ld have been in hell today because God is no respecter of persons. You ignorantly worship the queen of heaven. I rest my case. So you do admit that she lived a holy life and she is in heaven afterall. How do you know she is in heaven, is that written in the Bible? We honour and rever the queen of heaven. No apologies about that. |
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