Good day,
                first of all thanks for giving your time to read whatever my problem is,am a christian but dating a muslim , dont have a problem with the religious difference, the problem is my girlfriend claims there should be no cuddling,kiss or emotional stuff between us for the rest of september, pls ill like to know how true this is.
I thought you only stay outta those things on the day you fast and not for the whole month
I understand how this might sound but i really do need your help on this there are some personal things it will be revealing.
what i need help with is:
what are the donts of the fasting period
do you kiss,hug,(spend time with your loved one) only when youre not fasting or any other month except the fasting month(september)

a response to this doubt will be pretty appreciated.

---Much love

@Steve4ja: Your girlfriend, the so called "muslim woman, " is a hypocrite"! While she knows that she can not kiss, hug, etc, for the rest of the month of September, she should have known that she can not kiss, hug, etc throughout the year, too! She should have known that she and you, being that you are a nonMuslim, being known as a Keferi, a disbeliver in Oneness of God, His Angels, His Books and His Messengers and Prophets, do not belong together!

If she want her, she sholud have told you that you have to become a Muslim, because muslim women are for muslim men, only and no others! She should while at it tells you that you and her can not have sex, or even kiss or hug, or cuddle! She should have told you that all of those are meant for serious relationship, marriage, and the mere role playing that you are doing togetehr, which you call dating!

If she is Yoruba, she should be ashamed of herself! No wonder the hypocritical Yoruba muslims, in time leave the religion! No wonder we see their testimonies abounding here on Nairaland. I am still shocked a woman who left Islam because she concluded that "most" muslims think about sex! They she went off the cliff, to the other side, to Christianity, where all are thinking about it, and definitely 'most' are doing it!

One would have to wonder did she leave Islam she wanted to do it, as there is that theoretical restriction, in Islam, while Christianity has that nothing to hold her back. Whoever wants sex should just grow up and do it in a grown up manner; marry somebody you love with the intent to be an everlasting marriage!

You steve tell the muslim girl to fear Allah because He is ever watchful over all. To be faking is not the way to go! And to you if you need sex, which i am sure you are getting from her, since she is so loose, you should do the mature thing, marry her after you become muslim. That also help and purifies your soul. You will be right with God Almighty Allah and the benefit is that you can marry more than 1 wife, if you want! Unlike the fakery of Christianity that restrict men into woman nature, you can marr up to 4 wives!

Again, if you remain a christian, the muslim woman is committing two offenses, against her soul, in under commandment of Allah; illegal sex and involving with a disbelieving man, you! May what i say, the good in it, which is from Allah, alone, affect your heart and her's as well to obeying the commands of Allah! Amin.

Your girlfriend, the so called "muslim woman, " is  a hypocrite"!

Uncle, how did you know what I was about to say. Kiss me now, but not during ramadan?
Many Muslims don't even know what significance it is in having a boyfriend or girlfriend. Allah hates it!

@poster
Your girlfriend is not the Muslim we can call practising becasue she is not meant to consider someone who is not Muslim for a relationship, sorry if that hurts you. Its only Muslim men that may marry girls who are Christians or Jews according to the Islamic Law.

@Olabowale
Nigeria is lost, you know that in Egypt, Egyptians can't have sex without marriage  (If you do, you will go to jail for ages, and Egyptian prisions aint fun at all) and no one will ever marry a woman who is not virgin. In fact, that's the end, she wont marry till death. That's why I really think I got to have a wife from here, they are pure and extremely beautiful.

While I agree that the lady cannot called be a practising Muslim,
I disagree that she should be called a hypocrite, to be a hypocrite is a very big issue and really nobody knows what is in her heart.
She may jus be a muslimah in error thats needs advising.

She needs to be told that she cannot marry a Christian and not even have boy-girl friend relationship with a Christian. This is Haraam in Islaam. This may sound strange to the christian boy friend but it is the truth.

Really I cant blame you the christian guy, its really not your fault

@Codebase: Thank Allah. Thank you for the correction and reminder. The only reason I used the term hypocracy is that she was aware that the month of ramadan is for "not" having whatever she normally has with the christian man! What happens to the remaining other months of the year?

Hypocracy is when you are not ignorant, but aware, yet play dumb.

Hello my Muslim Brothers and Sisters here is a message from Saudi Arabia find Attachment below

@ codebase

sallam alaekum, i appreciate your correction and i feel olabowale has seen reasons with you.

may Allah strenghten you and make us all better muslims.


@ olabowale

sallam alaekum my brother, let me first start by saying that your comments were very harsh and thats not the way to address this issue.

the guy asking tis question is not a muslm and so there is a need to be careful the way you attend to his query.

dont make matters worse by passing fatwa with that tone.

dont forget that as bad as we think george bush is, the day he becomes a muslim, he becomes our brother! so steve49ja could be our brother one day.


@ steve49ja

how are you? its interesting to note from your tone that you guys already do sex and other things before now.

so if she finally chooses to stay away from the sinful ways in order to show respect for Allah, i think you should respect her decisions.

to have come this far to ask and open your relationship to public scrutiny shows your urge to continue having sex with her and that you don't trust her.

it also shows that she has made you get used so much to having sex and doing all the illicit things you listed by yourself.

well, the damage has been done, there is no point crying over spilt milk.

first, it is very wrong, emphasis on very wrong, to touch, talkless of having sex with a woman you are not married to. so whether ramadhan is here or not, you have been incurring the wrath of Allah over time. the solution here is, BEG FOR FORGIVENESS.

second, your girlfriend should have known she wasnot supposed to date you talkless of thinking of marriage. she is supposed to have known all these details and not put herslf in this mess.
don't mistake it here, even if she had chosen a muslim guy as her boyfriend (which is equally wrong), such activities are forbidden.

now, coming out to public to talk about this kind of stuff is in itself forbidden and incorrect, so desist from it.

above all, i pray to Allah to forgive you and make you see the truth and bring you onto the right path.

if i may ask, how would she feel if she finds out that you placed this on a thread.

think about all this, the real salvation is Islam. Allah would not look at whatever good deeds you must have done while leaving except you are a muslim.

i invoke Allah's forgiveness and mercy upon you and our sister currently under you.

best regards,

E_DIPO:

@ codebase

sallam alaekum, i appreciate your correction and i feel olabowale has seen reasons with you.

may Allah strenghten you and make us all better muslims.


@ olabowale

sallam alaekum my brother, let me first start by saying that your comments were very harsh and thats not the way to address this issue.

the guy asking tis question is not a muslm and so there is a need to be careful the way you attend to his query.

don't make matters worse by passing fatwa with that tone.

don't forget that as bad as we think george bush is, the day he becomes a muslim, he becomes our brother! so steve49ja could be our brother one day.


@ steve49ja

how are you? its interesting to note from your tone that you guys already do sex and other things before now.

so if she finally chooses to stay away from the sinful ways in order to show respect for Allah, i think you should respect her decisions.

to have come this far to ask and open your relationship to public scrutiny shows your urge to continue having sex with her and that you don't trust her.

it also shows that she has made you get used so much to having sex and doing all the illicit things you listed by yourself.

well, the damage has been done, there is no point crying over spilt milk.

first, it is very wrong, emphasis on very wrong, to touch, talkless of having sex with a woman you are not married to. so whether ramadhan is here or not, you have been incurring the wrath of Allah over time. the solution here is, BEG FOR FORGIVENESS.

second, your girlfriend should have known she wasnot supposed to date you talkless of thinking of marriage. she is supposed to have known all these details and not put herslf in this mess.
don't mistake it here, even if she had chosen a muslim guy as her boyfriend (which is equally wrong), such activities are forbidden.

now, coming out to public to talk about this kind of stuff is in itself forbidden and incorrect, so desist from it.

above all, i pray to Allah to forgive you and make you see the truth and bring you onto the right path.

if i may ask, how would she feel if she finds out that you placed this on a thread.

think about all this, the real salvation is Islam. Allah would not look at whatever good deeds you must have done while leaving except you are a muslim.

i invoke Allah's forgiveness and mercy upon you and our sister currently under you.

best regards,

Well said. May Allah reward You abundantly.
@poster
Help the sister realise her mistakes by letting her go or betterstill, accept islam and get married to her ASAP.

Salaam a'laykum,. . .

. . .Here's a case study which I want us all to analyze n comment on

1st CASE :. ., there's a christian guy who has been involvd in illegal intercourse with someone else but is now willing to convert to a muslim & get married to an untouched muslim gurl. . . . .


2nd CASE : this case is similar to the 1st case but places are switchd etc. . .i.e the gurl that now takes the place of the guy & the guy takes the place of the gurl in the 1st case. . . . . .

@E_Dipo: « #7 on: Yesterday at 08:09:35 PM »

@ olabowale

sallam alaekum my brother, let me first start by saying that your comments were very harsh and thats not the way to address this issue.

the guy asking tis question is not a muslm and so there is a need to be careful the way you attend to his query.

don't make matters worse by passing fatwa with that tone.

don't forget that as bad as we think george bush is, the day he becomes a muslim, he becomes our brother! so steve49ja could be our brother one day.

Thanks you and others for your reminder on me. may Allah reward you greatly and give you all the benefits of all the goods you do! Amin. My position is that I will follow Muhammad (AS), in every way I can. I will follow a person who is following him. I will not follow the person, when he stops following Muhammad (AS).

Allah says in Surah Muminun that a good woman, muslim woman belongs to in marriage a muslim man. An idolator also belongs to an idolator! Further, when the prophet never allowed a muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim man, should i then ignore these two great sources, the Qur'an and Ahadith, for the looseness of relationshi that the Yoruba muslims practice? No I will nt. I am a muslim first before I am a yoruba man.

Even though I have my own fitna, but to condone a muslim woman's relationship with a non-muslim man is like allowing what is haram with even the slightest effort to warn the committer of the haram action.

If this muslim woman is very aware that it is proper in the month of Ramadhan to have what she normal have with this guy, who happens to be a non-muslim, then she needed to be told that what she is doing is haram; Zina with a Kufar!
I am sorry to say it, but it is the truth! The boyfriend also needed to know that what he is doing is not acceptable even in the Bible. Can any of you be shameless to let that girlfiend be your own sister? For me, I am a very jealous man, the good jealous that is. I will not be happy if my woman folk is having such a terrible relationship.

I will at least let her know that it is haram. She has the choice of accepting or rejecting it. This will not bemy responsibility, but letting her know that it is haram is my only responsibility! Even Muhammad judge the Jews in Madina in the case of Zina. Are we now to abrogate it, a thing that is writing in the Qur'an?

Please let us all fear Allah!

My dear brother Ola and fellow muslims,

Let us be very cautious about posters here that mislead us into thinking that marrying/"dating" non muslims is done only by Yoruba muslims. We should condemn this act as Allah and His prophet (SAW) have done.

Muslims --period. Even for men, it is not advisable. I know our brothers do it a lot too but at the end of the day, it's more often than not a loss for them. their wives and kids do not practice Islam.

So can you tell me that you have searched unsuccessfully to find a muslim woman before settling for a non muslim, it is a huge gamble that is not worth it.

I know a number of non Yoruba muslim women that went with non muslims.
Bottom line is we need to set our priorities straight.

May Allah subhana wata ala be our strenght

olabowale, kindly analyse and post comments on the cases I stated above

dragnet:

Salaam a'laykum,. . .

. . .Here's a case study which I want us all to analyze n comment on

1st CASE :. ., there's a christian guy who has been involvd in illegal intercourse with someone else but is now willing to convert to a muslim & get married to an untouched muslim gurl. . . . .

Wrong! wrong! wrong! on all fronts. Is the reason for conversion to touch an untouched muslim girl? That is absolutely vile. If not, since he has had a fair amount of touching, why is it critical to get an untouched girl?

Sorry that I cannot quote the Hadith but it is pretty much an injustice when an adulterer seeks a non adulteress.

I know brother Ola will have some input for you

dragnet:
2nd CASE : this case is similar to the 1st case but places are switchd etci.e the gurl that now takes the place of the guy & the guy takes the place of the gurl in the 1st case. . . . . .

pretty much the same

ayinba1, thanks 4 d comment but Its not really 'compulsory' for the guy to marry an untouchd gurl. .Its lyk this ,d person he chose(who also returnz d same feeling) is untouchd & he realises that NOTHING can exist except he changes & after understanding the religion, he chose to convert & since its said that Islam abolishes previous sins, can they still go ahead?? . . . . . . .Same goes for the 2nd case too

bro Olabowale, I'm still expecting ur comment

@Ayinba1: Salaamualaykum wa rahmatullah. I love yoruba people and the culture, where compartable with Islam. I just yoruba to emphasis my point. At least am one, so no one will say i am using their own tribe where the matter is less that acceptable.

Alhamdulillah.

@dragnet: « #8 on: Today at 09:30:17 AM »

Salaam a'laykum,. . .

. . .Here's a case study which I want us all to analyze n comment on

1st CASE :. ., there's a christian guy who has been involvd in illegal intercourse with someone else but is now willing to convert to a muslim & get married to an untouched muslim gurl. . . . .


2nd CASE : this case is similar to the 1st case but places are switchd etci.e the gurl that now takes the place of the guy & the guy takes the place of the gurl in the 1st case. . . . . .

The point is this, in each case, what is past is past, when a person reverts to Islam. All sins are forgiven. All short comings in the period of ignorance can not be accrue to this new person, who is now a muslim. Islam gives him/her a newly minted slates with only good deeds.

What is expected of that person is to do good and avoid evils from that point of revertion, onward. He/she should be encouraged to never go back to the filt of the past.

The person, hopefully as long as there is no disease caught from the days of ignorance, is good to go with the "Untouched" spouse who is waiting for the marriage! They must marry as is prescribed in the Book of Allah and in the pattern of the Sunnah of the Prophet (AS)!

bro Olabowale, JazakaLLAHU khayran . , . . . . . . .

1st CASE :. ., there's a christian guy who has been involvd in illegal intercourse with someone else but is now willing to convert to a muslim & get married to an untouched muslim gurl. . . . .


2nd CASE : this case is similar to the 1st case but places are switchd etci.e the gurl that now takes the place of the guy & the guy takes the place of the gurl in the 1st case. . . .

.

CASE 1 & 2

Please what is the person's reason for deciding to go for "untouched' because we woulkd be having ladies in his position (CASE 1) seeking repentance and DOES  that mean they would never get married?

Does that mean if the person comes across "touched" person, he would called it quit EVEN If the repentance is from his heart?

I need inputs please

olabowale:

The point is this, in each case, what is past is past, when a person reverts to Islam. All sins are forgiven. All short comings in the period of ignorance can not be accrue to this new person, who is now a muslim. Islam gives him/her a newly minted slates with only good deeds.

What is expected of that person is to do good and avoid evils from that point of revertion, onward. He/she should be encouraged to never go back to the filt of the past.

The person, hopefully as long as there is no disease caught from the days of ignorance, is good to go with the "Untouched" spouse who is waiting for the marriage! They must marry as is prescribed in the Book of Allah and in the pattern of the Sunnah of the Prophet (AS)!

This is a clearly-reasoned and delivered answer. But I have another related to it.

Can this new convert, in all righteousness, contract Mut'a Marriage with a Muslim woman?

How short could a Mut'a Marriage be?

.

There is no Mut'a in Islam! What you are now doing is committing Zina under a different name. Thats evil.

Mut'a marriage ke? Hearing it for the first time !

@Javalove

Mut'a marriage ke? Hearing it for the first time !

Salam

Read about it here:


https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-48474.0.html

olabowale:

There is no Mut'a in Islam! What you are now doing is committing Zina under a different name. Thats evil.

What a reaction! It is evil to mention Mut'a in Islam?! It is Zina!

Shut it down if you don't disagree with it, right?

Too bad, knowledge, and wisdom is out there; so, my friends, examine it.

First off: if it was/is Zina, are you suggesting that the Prophet (PBUH) allowed Zina? Are you?

Anyway, the definitive text is found in the Holy Quran 4:24, the so-called verse of Mut'a.

The Holy Quran 4:24 - . . . and wedded women, save what your right hands own. So God prescribes for you. Lawful for you, beyond all that, is that you may seek, using your wealth, in wedlock and not in licence. Such wives as you enjoy thereby, give them their wages apportionate; it is no fault in you in your agreeing together, after the due apportionate. God is All-knowing, All-wise. (Source: http://quran-online.net/)

So, there you have it. And before proceeding, let's be specific: this is the "Mut'a of women". I write that for be benefit of anyone denying that there is no Mut'a in Islam; perhaps, the Mut'a of pilgrimage may be helpful in not substituting the practical meaning with the linguistic one. If knowledge is being filtered through translations, then let's begin looking at the Arabic. There can be references: both to clear reasoning and scholars and to history, to the extent of the confirmation that this was legal during the time of the Prophet (PBUH)

Sura 4 Ayat 24 refers to Mut'a, or Temporary Marriage; the holy book sets out what it is. Let anyone willing to discuss approach with knowledge and not empty words.
.

@Nimshi

What a reaction! It is evil to mention Mut'a in Islam?! It is Zina!

Shut it down if you don't disagree with it, right?

Too bad, knowledge, and wisdom is out there; so, my friends, examine it.

First off: if it was/is Zina, are you suggesting that the Prophet (PBUH) allowed Zina? Are you?

Anyway, the definitive text is found in the Holy Quran 4:24, the so-called verse of Mut'a.

The Holy Quran 4:24 - . . . and wedded women, save what your right hands own. So God prescribes for you. Lawful for you, beyond all that, is that you may seek, using your wealth, in wedlock and not in licence. Such wives as you enjoy thereby, give them their wages apportionate; it is no fault in you in your agreeing together, after the due apportionate. God is All-knowing, All-wise. (Source: http://quran-online.net/)

So, there you have it. And before proceeding, let's be specific: this is the "Mut'a of women". I write that for be benefit of anyone denying that there is no Mut'a in Islam; perhaps, the Mut'a of pilgrimage may be helpful in not substituting the practical meaning with the linguistic one. If knowledge is being filtered through translations, then let's begin looking at the Arabic. There can be references: both to clear reasoning and scholars and to history, to the extent of the confirmation that this was legal during the time of the Prophet (PBUH)

Sura 4 Ayat 24 refers to Mut'a, or Temporary Marriage; the holy book sets out what it is. Let anyone willing to discuss approach with knowledge and not empty words.

Let us start the verse from verse 23:

23. Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-

24. Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

25. If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours: when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Having done that, let us go into the issue at hand, Muta Marriage:

It is too bad that your above allegation happened to be your understanding of Muta Marriage and I have done the needful by providing the verses for understanding.

I learnt that some of your folks pick Hadith/ Quran out of context without reading to grab the meaning it entails.

Was Muta Marriage in Islam?

The reason why temporary marriage was allowed is to prevent illegal sex, prostitution and rape especially during the early times of Islam when Muslims didn't have residence stability and were facing all kinds of difficulties from the pagans. The Muslim men used to also travel for long months away from their families to meet the enemy in the battle field. Some of the towns they used to go to had Muslim women in them, and like I said, to prevent adultery and fornication with any woman (Muslim or non-Muslim), and to prevent rape, the Prophet peace be upon him allowed temporary marriage contracts between Muslim men and women.

When the Muslim state became stable during our Prophet's time, he then forbade that act because Muslims then could get married and have stable lives with their families and raise Children in a stable and convenient community.

Is Muta Marriage Islamic:

So I contracted temporary marriage with her, and I did not come out (of this) until Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) declared it forbidden. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 8, Number 3253)"

Narrated 'Ali: "I said to Ibn 'Abbas, 'During the battle of Khaibar the Prophet forbade (Nikah) Al-Mut'a [Temporary Marriage in English] and the eating of donkey's meat.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah), Volume 7, Book 62, Number 50)"

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah and Salama bin Al-Akwa': "While we were in an army, Allah's Apostle came to us and said, "You have been allowed to do the Mut'a (marriage), so do it." Salama bin Al-Akwa' said: Allah's Apostle's said, "If a man and a woman agree (to marry temporarily), their marriage should last for three nights, and if they like to continue, they can do so; and if they want to separate, they can do so." I do not know whether that was only for us or for all the people in general. Abu Abdullah (Al-Bukhari) said: 'Ali made it clear that the Prophet said, "The Mut'a marriage has been cancelled (made unlawful)." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah), Volume 7, Book 62, Number 52)"

Narrated Saburah ibn Ma'bad al-Juhani: "The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) prohibited temporary marriage with women. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 11, Number 2068)"

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3259:
Rabi' b. Sabra reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) prohibited the contracting of temporary marriage.

Book 008, Number 3262:
Sabra al-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) prohibited the contracting of temporary marriage and said: Behold, it is forbidden from this very day of yours to the Day of Resurrection, and he who has given something (as a dower) should not take it back.

babs787:

@Nimshi
It is too bad that your above allegation happened to be your understanding of Muta Marriage and I have done the needful by providing the verses for understanding.

I learnt that some of your folks pick Hadith/ Quran out of context without reading to grab the meaning it entails.

Let's get these out of the way before addressing the substance of your post:

1) What's the meaning of "some of your folks, "? And, how could you quickly conclude anything about my understanding of context? It is quite a foolish (you must excuse the word, and it's for want of an apt one) thing for you to write this; how could you be commenting about a matter you've no way of knowing about?

2) I am not making an allegation; I am referring to words in the Holy Quran, and will further reference reasoning, history, and scholarship. I have not declared my current position as unchangeable; when the facts change, so must my understanding. You should be ashamed of the assumptions you made, particularly, your appearance of imputing a bad motive.

You wouldn't be feeling attacked if you haven't been conditioned to being defensive. There's no dividend in it; so you ought to stop it.
.

Now, to the substance of your post:

Was Muta Marriage in Islam?

The reason why temporary marriage was allowed is to prevent illegal sex, prostitution and rape especially during the early times of Islam when Muslims didn't have residence stability and were facing all kinds of difficulties from the pagans. The Muslim men used to also travel for long months away from their families to meet the enemy in the battle field. Some of the towns they used to go to had Muslim women in them, and like I said, to prevent adultery and fornication with any woman (Muslim or non-Muslim), and to prevent rape, the Prophet peace be upon him allowed temporary marriage contracts between Muslim men and women.

When the Muslim state became stable during our Prophet's time, he then forbade that act because Muslims then could get married and have stable lives with their families and raise Children in a stable and convenient community.

Let's stop here for now.

1) The above is a clear admission that there (at least) was Mut'a in Islam. Do you disagree?
2) It is a fact that the Prophet (PBUH) 'allowed' Mut'a marriage. Do you disagree?

The above needs to be established before moving forward. It is my hope that you're able to respond unambiguously.
.

I believe that Babs did the question of muta marriage justice. If we are indeed in search for truth and to improve our observance  of Islamic injunctions, we need to not leave leprosy to progress and wage war  against ringworm, kapish!

@Nimshi,

You have  posted some terms here that I have never heard before, I do not know if you are a muslim or not but I checked back through your posts;

Nimshi:

Mr. mazaje: I just read your post #2, for where you bin write:

My bros, hmnnn,  no be so o.

First of all, no be all atheists be rationalists; e no good make we merge them together.

Second of all, no be all theists dey claim say de get truth o. You go find some theists, them go tell you say them dey always search for truth correct. And as for the Moslem & Christian brothers & sister, no be all of them be like that. We must try be careful to merge everybodi. No be say na only you get di fault o, me ma sef dey do am sometimes.

My favourite senior pastor don enter TV. I dey come..

and I do not see any where you used the word "Salam", If you are so knowledgeable, how come you cannot spell ALLAH Akbar

Nimshi:

Alahu Akbar!

One of my favourites is:

[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

We can learn many things from the Holy Quran. Alahu Akbar!

And yes the verse you quoted above is good injunction from ALLAH, the Wise!


You must know that the world is really  a small place,

Nimshi:

Yeye nonsense.

Even Jesus work part time for instant-party brewery.

If people drunk, na them wahala be that.

Person wey put rat poison for food, na di fault of di chemist wey mix di poison?

Everytin for im own use, for the right quantity.

As them talk for bible: na wine dey make person heart jolly.

.

Back to the issue, in the Holy Quran, Allah commanded muslims to drink and gamble less as there is more harm than good in  it, but before the  completion of revelation of thee Quran, ALlah forbade it. And as it stands today, it is HARAM  to gamble, or to drink alcohol.  So why do you want Babs to agree with your statement below?

Nimshi:

Now, to the substance of your post:


Let's stop here for now.

1) The above is a clear admission that there (at least) was Mut'a in Islam. Do you disagree?
2) It is a fact that the Prophet (PBUH) 'allowed' Mut'a marriage. Do you disagree?

The above needs to be established before moving forward. It is my hope that you're able to respond unambiguously.
.

So who/what exactly are you? You have consistently evaded the question of "are you a muslim"? I have agreed with some of your responses on this board but this one makes me doubt your sincerity.

I think that your action points either to not knowing or deliberately wanting to mislead.

@Nimshi: « #22 on: Yesterday at 08:39:00 PM »

Quote from: olabowale on Yesterday at 06:08:39 PM
There is no Mut'a in Islam! What you are now doing is committing Zina under a different name. Thats evil.

What a reaction! It is evil to mention Mut'a in Islam?! It is Zina!

Shut it down if you don't disagree with it, right?

Too bad, knowledge, and wisdom is out there; so, my friends, examine it.

First off: if it was/is Zina, are you suggesting that the Prophet (PBUH) allowed Zina? Are you?

Anyway, the definitive text is found in the Holy Quran 4:24, the so-called verse of Mut'a.

And you will also find in the Qur'an at a time before it was forbidden to consume alcohol, verse that when one is impaired by its consumption, he/she should not approach Salah. You will also read that at one time, people can talk in Salah, until it was prohibitted. You will also know that it was permissable to marry more than 4 wives, before it was prohibited and limited to just 4 and not more!

The Holy Quran 4:24 - . . . and wedded women, save what your right hands own. So God prescribes for you. Lawful for you, beyond all that, is that you may seek, using your wealth, in wedlock and not in licence. Such wives as you enjoy thereby, give them their wages apportionate; it is no fault in you in your agreeing together, after the due apportionate. God is All-knowing, All-wise. (Source: http://quran-online.net/)

And you will find in the Qur'an verse saying that some verses were abrogated, and replaced with an equal verse or something different. You also see in the Qur'an where Allah says that whatever Muhammad (AS) gives one should take it, and whatever he disallows, one should abandone it. You will also read where Alla says Muhammad (AS) does speak of his own, except that he has been commanded to do so. You will aslo read here Allah says that answe the Messenger when he calls you to what gives you life/benefit.

So, there you have it. And before proceeding, let's be specific: this is the "Mut'a of women". I write that for be benefit of anyone denying that there is no Mut'a in Islam; perhaps, the Mut'a of pilgrimage may be helpful in not substituting the practical meaning with the linguistic one. If knowledge is being filtered through translations, then let's begin looking at the Arabic. There can be references: both to clear reasoning and scholars and to history, to the extent of the confirmation that this was legal during the time of the Prophet (PBUH)

Nimshi, would therefore conclude by your reasoning that Alcohol consumption, talking in Salah and marry more than 4 wives, were permissable in the time of the prophet?

When you say that, please note that each was a practice before Islam began. Each practice continued up to a point in Islam. Each stopped by it been forbidden durig the lifetime of the Prophet (AS).

Sura 4 Ayat 24 refers to Mut'a, or Temporary Marriage; the holy book sets out what it is. Let anyone willing to discuss approach with knowledge and not empty words.

Nimshi, the empty words is from a person who truly lacks the understanding of Al Islam. The Explanator of Al Qur'an was Muhammad himself. For example, Allah speaks about Salah. But in the Qur'an you will not find how many rakah is each; Subh 2, Zuhr, Asr and Isha, each being for while magrib is 3. The exact rakah you will find in the Sunnah or ahadith of the Prophet!

Allah says of the Fornicator to be flogged 100 lashes. It is in ahadith and sunnah that you will see that the Adulter and adulteress are to be stoned to death, because their case is worse that those who do not have legal sexual partner!

In the time of the Victory of Makka, Allah's messenger (AS), forbade two things; the eating of horse meat and Mu'ta relationship.

Regardless of your arguments, we know what is morally acceptable. By the time Islam was completely organized, Iman had already fully established in the hearts of the muslims. It was therefore viable that things that were bad and immoral, which they used to practice in their culture, the arabic culture were abrogated, forbidden, cancelled.

We all know that drunkenness leads to all kind of terrible things and it is bad for the liver.
We also know that temporary marriage leads to a woman being label as being very loose. But no one wants his woman folk to be that woman who is mu'ta! I am sure about myself. I will not any man to mu'ta my women folks.

Since you are able to bring out this verse about Mu'ta from surah Nisaa, you should also read the ahadith about it. That it was abrogated and forbidden aforetime.

@Nimshi: This is the Tafsir of the prohibition of Mu'ta, right there in Surah Nisaa. I bet you may not have seen it while you were concentrating on Verse 24! Allah Himself defends His Book, His prescribed religion for mankind. His worshippers


Prohibiting the Mut`ah of Marriage


Mujahid stated that, [فَمَا اسْتَمْتَعْتُمْ بِهِ مِنْهُنَّ فَـَاتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ فَرِيضَةً]

(So with those among them whom you have enjoyed, give them their required due,) was revealed about the Mut`ah marriage. A Mut`ah marriage is a marriage that ends upon a predeterminied date. In the Two Sahihs, it is recorded that the Leader of the Faithful `Ali bin Abi Talib said, "The Messenger of Allah prohibited Mut`ah marriage and eating the meat of domesticated donkeys on the day of Khaybar (battle).''


In addition, in his Sahih, Muslim recorded that Ar-Rabi` bin Sabrah bin Ma`bad Al-Juhani said that his father said that he accompanied the Messenger of Allah during the conquest of Makkah, and that the Prophet said, «يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنِّي كُنْتُ أَذِنْتُ لَكُمْ فِي الاسْتِمْتَاعِ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ، وَإنَّ اللهَ قَدْ حَرَّمَ ذَلِكَ إِلى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ، فَمَنْ كَانَ عِنَدَهُ مِنْهُنَّ شَيْءٌ فَلْيُخَلِّ سَبِيلَهُ، وَلَا تَأْخُذُوا مِمَّا آتَيْتُمُوهُنَّ شيئًا»


(O people! I allowed you the Mut`ah marriage with women before. Now, Allah has prohibited it until the Day of Resurrection. Therefore, anyone who has any women in Mut`ah, let him let them go, and do not take anything from what you have given them.) Allah's statement, [وَلاَ جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِيمَا تَرَاضَيْتُمْ بِهِ مِن بَعْدِ الْفَرِيضَةِ]


(but if you agree mutually (to give more) after the requirement (has been determined), there is no sin on you.) is similar to His other statement, [وَءَاتُواْ النِّسَآءَ صَدُقَـتِهِنَّ نِحْلَةً]


(And give to the women their dowry with a good heart). The meaning of these Ayat is: If you have stipulated a dowry for her, and she later forfeits it, either totally or partially, then this bears no harm on you or her in this case. Ibn Jarir said, "Al-Hadrami said that some men would designate a certain dowry, but then fall into financial difficulties.

Therefore, Allah said that there is no harm on you, O people, concerning your mutual agreement after the requirement (has been determined).'' meaning, if she gives up part of the dowry, then you men are allowed to accept that. Allah's statement, [إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيماً حَكِيماً]


(Surely, Allah is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise.) is suitable here, after Allah mentioned these prohibitions.


[وَمَن لَّمْ يَسْتَطِعْ مِنكُمْ طَوْلاً أَن يَنكِحَ الْمُحْصَنَـتِ الْمُؤْمِنَـتِ فَمِنْ مَّا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَـنُكُم مِّن فَتَيَـتِكُمُ الْمُؤْمِنَـتِ وَاللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ بِإِيمَـنِكُمْ بَعْضُكُمْ مِّن بَعْضٍ فَانكِحُوهُنَّ بِإِذْنِ أَهْلِهِنَّ وَءَاتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ مُحْصَنَـت غَيْرَ مُسَـفِحَـتٍ وَلاَ مُتَّخِذَاتِ أَخْدَانٍ فَإِذَآ أُحْصِنَّ فَإِنْ أَتَيْنَ بِفَـحِشَةٍ فَعَلَيْهِنَّ نِصْفُ مَا عَلَى الْمُحْصَنَـتِ مِنَ الْعَذَابِ ذَلِكَ لِمَنْ خَشِىَ الْعَنَتَ مِنْكُمْ وَأَن تَصْبِرُواْ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ ]


(25. And whoever of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess, and Allah has full knowledge about your faith, you are one from another. Wed them with the permission of their own folk (guardians) and give them their due in a good manner; they should be chaste, not fornicators, nor promiscuous.

And after they have been taken in wedlock, if they commit Fahishah, their punishment is half that for free (unmarried) women. This is for him among you who is afraid of being harmed in his religion or in his body; but it is better for you that you practice self-restraint, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.)

Nimshi: And verse 25 abrogated or prohibited Mu'tah. Allah says "Practice self-restraint!"

@Nimshi

Let's stop here for now.

1) The above is a clear admission that there (at least) was Mut'a in Islam. Do you disagree?
2) It is a fact that the Prophet (PBUH) 'allowed' Mut'a marriage. Do you disagree?

The above needs to be established before moving forward. It is my hope that you're able to respond unambiguously.

You have response to your questions in my post. So try to move ahead and I would follow suit INSHA ALLAH

ayinba1: below, I offer specific responses to your post. Should I miss anything out, be kind to point it out if you so wish.

ayinba1:
I believe that Babs did the question of muta marriage justice. If we are indeed in search for truth and to improve our observance  of Islamic injunctions, we need to not leave leprosy to progress and wage war  against ringworm, kapish!

Your belief here is an assumption. The post you refer to moves the discussion forward, but isn't it perhaps too early to make a call? Simply because you encounter opinion that appears reasonable cannot imply that you've exhausted all possibilities. There are cracks in that submission; it is wise to examine it in detail.

ayinba1:
@Nimshi, You have  posted some terms here that I have never heard before, I do not know if you are a muslim or not but I checked back through your posts;

I apologise for posting strange terms; discussion is only possible and reasonable if we're all understand the terms used in the same way. I had wrongly assumed; from now, I'll try to be clear and assist with explanations. It is interesting that you checked my other posts on this forum. It is even more interesting that your post appears to hint that you hoped to figure if I was a Muslim from my posts. Let's go forward.

ayinba1:
 and I do not see any where you used the word "Salam", If you are so knowledgeable, how come you cannot spell ALLAH Akbar
And yes the verse you quoted above is good injunction from ALLAH, the Wise!

Is the use of Sallam now the litmus test for faith? This is not a rhetorical question; I should appreciate your response to it. Again, is the mispelling of the holy name a litmus test for knowledge? And yes, I agree that the verse is valid injunction; it was quoted to inspire a discussion. Perhaps that discussion will happen someday.

ayinba1:
You must know that the world is really  a small place,

Oh, probably yes. What exactly do you mean by this? I ask because this is the first thing I'd not understand in your post so far. What exactly do you mean?

ayinba1:
Back to the issue, in the Holy Quran, Allah commanded muslims to drink and gamble less as there is more harm than good in  it, but before the  completion of revelation of thee Quran, ALlah forbade it. And as it stands today, it is HARAM  to gamble, or to drink alcohol.  So why do you want Babs to agree with your statement below?

Then, the questions following the assertions above are:
1) Were alcohol consumption and gambling Zina?
2) Did Almighty Allah allow Zina?

Are you brave enough to attempt to answer these valid questions? Or, would you decree that the questions should not be asked?

ayinba1:
So who/what exactly are you?

These are ambiguous questions. "Who are you?" What would I tell you - if I wished - that would satisfy you? "What are you?" What would I tell you - should I wish - that'll satistfy you? In any case, these questions are irrelevant to the substance of the discussion that's on.

ayinba1:
You have consistently evaded the question of "are you a muslim"?

Could you show me an example of me evading a direct question? And particularly this question? I doubt that your allegation is valid.

ayinba1:
I have agreed with some of your responses on this board but this one makes me doubt your sincerity.

It is something in your favour to write the above. But, I should tell you: my sincerity shouldn't really be your concern (hint: you have no way of really knowing my sincerity); you ought to continue to concern yourself with my expressed opinion. It is futile to chase "sincerity". Yet, if you would wish for an assurance of sincerity on my part, I perhaps could give it.

ayinba1:
I think that your action points either to not knowing or deliberately wanting to mislead.

Have you considered that your thoughts may be wrong? If you haven't, you should. One of the potent distractions in discussions is what you appear to be preoccupied with. Could you deal with that which is clear: the expressed opinion and questions? And, are two options the only possible/plausible options? Do not limit yourself.

Somewhere in your posts, you quoted comments from me from someplace else on this forum:

"My favourite senior pastor don enter TV. I dey come"

Yes, I wrote that, and I did mean it. He is my favourite pastor. So?

And:

Even Jesus work part time for instant-party brewery.
If people drunk, na them wahala be that.
Person wey put rat poison for food, na di fault of di chemist wey mix di poison?
Everytin for I'm own use, for the right quantity.
As them talk for bible: na wine dey make person heart jolly.

Yes, I did write that. So? Where is your criticism? This I can offer: one of the friends here have advised that it is better to write in English rather than in Pidgin; I found the reasons arresting. It is more difficult for me to write in English, yet, I have tried. I may return to the more natural Pidgin. If you have any comment/question about any of my posts anywhere on this board, do post.

Would it make any difference if I ended with Sallam?

Salam.
.

babs787:

@Nimshi
You have response to your questions in my post. So try to move ahead and I would follow suit INSHA ALLAH

No. In fact, you have failed to answer direct, follow-up questions. I re-post them here for your attention and that of anyone who may have missed them:

Given the submission you gave about Mut'a:

1) The above is a clear admission that there (at least) was Mut'a in Islam. Do you disagree?
2) It is a fact that the Prophet (PBUH) 'allowed' Mut'a marriage. Do you disagree?

The above needs to be established before moving forward. It is my hope that you're able to respond unambiguously.

Would you reply unambiguously and specifically?
.