https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sizLaInysA

PastorAIO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sizLaInysA

This video and so called discoveries do not negatively impact the inspiration and inerrancy of the Bible. You need to realise the context and meaning in which it is said that the Bible is infallible and inerrant. It is not in the context of commas and spellings, which are the major/bulk issues that 'scholars' usually present. Infallibility and inerrancy is in the context of what the Bible affirms and teaches. That is, if the Bible says you are a goat, we can be very sure you are indeed a goat. You only may not know it yet. If the Bible says "All have sinned", then indeed all have sinned. When the Bible says "you must be born again", or when it teaches that "whosoever believes in the name of Jesus will be saved", it is inerrant and infallible.
We know and agree that there are OF COURSE additions to every one Bible. Starting from various prefaces and concordances, and cross references. Even to the addition of chapters and verses which is more uniform. All these are accepted additions everywhere and we can all hold up the Bible and still declare it is the Word of God. Then not to mention the thousand different translations and their different wordings. When i pick up an Amplified Bible or a King James Bible or a the Living Bible or a Good News Bible. Of course there are variants, maybe thousands or millions of what is defined as variants between each of the versions and translations. Yet, i do know and say that they are all the Word of God and Life. The Old Testament Bible also had different versions and translations in the time of Jesus, the apostles and first century christians. They had variants too. But no sane person went beating up himself or herself or having sleepless nights. They still revered them as SCRIPTURE and the very Word of God. Variants and variations are only deeply unsettling and frightening for the unfaithful, not for the faithful. It is the unfaithful and the unbelievers that keep on having fits and trying to make all men know about some non-existent conspiracy and its non existent implication. The reality on ground is that God keeps on honouring His Word(the Bible) till tomorrow. Evil spirits and sicknesses and circumstances continue to subject and tremble live at the Word of God. Sinners continue to be saved, humans transformed, believers made holy, and the righteous prepared for Heaven by the Word of God.
Questions for the makers of the video and its similar, and for those that take such serious.
1. Is it possible to discover an earlier manuscript than the three or so Codex mentioned?
2. Is it possible for those earlier manuscripts to contain anything missing in the three or so codex?
3. Do you believe that the portions that are not missing(that are consistent) in all of the manuscripts are the Word of God?

There is not one big deal about the ending of Mark missing in any manuscript. It takes and adds nothing to the Word of God. There was a time that the Word of God was only one book, or five books or 39 books. So, that some verses seem added at different times is nothing. The Bible was compiled for more than 1600years, more than 1600years. The important thing is that the Word of God will not pass away, and the scriptures cannot be broken. Even if all of the UN, EU, OPEC, OAU, G7, G20, G8, Bill Gates and Dangote Foundation, and all others pull all their resources together against the Bible, it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. Time has continued to prove that the Bible outlives its pallbearers. All of the so called added verses of Mark are corroborated in other Scriptures by the way. So no worries, dump the tension.

Liar Liar pants on fire.

The video does not even go into the difference in spellings and commas etc. (oh by the way do they even use commas when writing koine greek).
It mentions the codex sinaiticus which ends marks gospel on verse 9 when the KJV ends on verse 20. Where did KJV get the extra 11 verses from. Is that a spelling error in your mind. Is that a comma? It won't even surprise me if you return to say yes it is. I don't think we've yet seen the depths which you're prepared to sink.

You mumus will not leave this matter of spellings and commas alone like a drowning man clutching at straws. Even in a video where they don't mention anything about spellings you're still arguing against the straws. This is so sad. pitiful.

Image123:

This video and so called discoveries do not negatively impact the inspiration and inerrancy of the Bible. You need to realise the context and meaning in which it is said that the Bible is infallible and inerrant. It is not in the context of commas and spellings, which are the major/bulk issues that 'scholars' usually present. Infallibility and inerrancy is in the context of what the Bible affirms and teaches. That is, if the Bible says you are a goat, we can be very sure you are indeed a goat. You only may not know it yet. If the Bible says "All have sinned", then indeed all have sinned. When the Bible says "you must be born again", or when it teaches that "whosoever believes in the name of Jesus will be saved", it is inerrant and infallible.
We know and agree that there are OF COURSE additions to every one Bible. Starting from various prefaces and concordances, and cross references. Even to the addition of chapters and verses which is more uniform. All these are accepted additions everywhere and we can all hold up the Bible and still declare it is the Word of God. Then not to mention the thousand different translations and their different wordings. When i pick up an Amplified Bible or a King James Bible or a the Living Bible or a Good News Bible. Of course there are variants, maybe thousands or millions of what is defined as variants between each of the versions and translations. Yet, i do know and say that they are all the Word of God and Life. The Old Testament Bible also had different versions and translations in the time of Jesus, the apostles and first century christians. They had variants too. But no sane person went beating up himself or herself or having sleepless nights. They still revered them as SCRIPTURE and the very Word of God. Variants and variations are only deeply unsettling and frightening for the unfaithful, not for the faithful. It is the unfaithful and the unbelievers that keep on having fits and trying to make all men know about some non-existent conspiracy and its non existent implication. The reality on ground is that God keeps on honouring His Word(the Bible) till tomorrow. Evil spirits and sicknesses and circumstances continue to subject and tremble live at the Word of God. Sinners continue to be saved, humans transformed, believers made holy, and the righteous prepared for Heaven by the Word of God.
Questions for the makers of the video and its similar, and for those that take such serious.
1. Is it possible to discover an earlier manuscript than the three or so Codex mentioned?
2. Is it possible for those earlier manuscripts to contain anything missing in the three or so codex?
3. Do you believe that the portions that are not missing(that are consistent) in all of the manuscripts are the Word of God?
There is not one big deal about the ending of Mark missing in any manuscript. It takes and adds nothing to the Word of God. There was a time that the Word of God was only one book, or five books or 39 books. So, that some verses seem added at different times is nothing. The Bible was compiled for more than 1600years, more than 1600years. The important thing is that the Word of God will not pass away, and the scriptures cannot be broken. Even if all of the UN, EU, OPEC, OAU, G7, G20, G8, Bill Gates and Dangote Foundation, and all others pull all their resources together against the Bible, it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. Time has continued to prove that the Bible outlives its pallbearers. All of the so called added verses of Mark are corroborated in other Scriptures by the way. So no worries, dump the tension.

For those who are saying that there are no inconsistencies in the bible can you please tell me what time Jesus died. Did he die on the 3rd hour or did he die on the 6th hour. This is a simple matter of historical accuracy. To be historically inerrant you have got to be one or the other but not both.

Oh, and I've just discovered something my dear Image123. but first please remind me what it was you said about Metzger, the bible scholar. Something about him being a lord and oga and daddy to Ehrmann and a mighty scholar something or the other. what was it again? Oh yeah:

Professor Bruce Metzger is an authority, he has done research. Actually, he taught your lord Bart in Princeton where Bart received his PhD and M.Div. Though he is late now, but if we are talking about scholar or research or critical or whatever other high sounding title you hope to bamboozle us with.

So since you yourself have picked out this man as a scholarly authority, then let us see what he has to say.

Biblical scholar Bruce M. Metzger mentions several internal inconsistencies in the New Testament in earlier manuscripts that later scribes attempted to correct:[71]

“
In the earlier manuscripts of Mark 1:2, the composite quotation from Malachi 3:1 and Isaiah 40:3 is introduced by the formula "As it is written in Isaiah the Prophet". Later scribes, sensing this involves a difficulty replaced "As it is written in Isaiah the Prophet" with the general statement "As it is written in the prophets". Since the quotation Matthew(27:9) attributes to the prophet Jeremiah actually comes from Zechariah(11:12f), it is not surprising that some scribes sought to mend the error either by substituting the correct name or by omitting the name altogether. A few scribes attempted to harmonize the Johannine account of the chronology of the Passion with that in Mark by changing ’sixth hour’ of John 19:14 to ‘third hour’ (which appears in Mark 15:25). At John 1:28, Origen altered Bethany to Bethabara in order to remove what he regarded as a geographical difficulty, and this reading is extant today in MSS. 33 69 and many others, including those behind the King James version. The statement in Mark 8:31, that ‘the Son of man must suffer many things…and be killed and after three days rise again’, seems to involve a chronological difficulty, and some copyists changed the phrase to the more familiar expression, ‘on the third day’. The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews places the golden altar of incense in the Holy of Holies (Heb. 9:4), which is contrary to the Old Testament description of the Tabernacle (Exod. 30:1-6). The scribe of Codex Vaticanus and the translator of the Ethiopic version correct the account by transferring the words to 9:2, where the furniture of the Holy Place is itemized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_consistency_of_the_Bible

He admits that the bible was doctored in so many different places, sometimes to smooth out inconsistencies that were already there. He mentions where Origen, the church father, 'altered Bethany to Bethabara in order to remove what he regarded as a geographical difficulty'.

The funny thing is that on that very same wiki page there we are told that Origen himself admitted that the gospels had been doctored. And all the while he himself was in involved in the doctoring process.

Disputes regarding biblical consistency have a long history. The church father Origen replied to the writer Celsus, a critic of Christianity, who had complained that some Christians had remodelled the Gospel to answer objections, admitting that some had done so.[1]

I never said that consistency was required for theological purposes or purposes of faith. But it is very important for scientific or historical purposes.

Faith is a different kettle of fish altogether. You can even build a faith around pop singer Beyonce and use her songs are scriptures. It possible. Hang on, wait a minute. Some people have done that already.

You can even take the same text and create various, rather different faiths or denominations or doctrines. That has been done too based on the bible. You see to do that doesn't require an inerrant text. It just requires a robust imagination.

PastorAIO:
Liar Liar pants on fire.

The video does not even go into the difference in spellings and commas etc. (oh by the way do they even use commas when writing koine greek).
It mentions the codex sinaiticus which ends marks gospel on verse 9 when the KJV ends on verse 20. Where did KJV get the extra 11 verses from. Is that a spelling error in your mind. Is that a comma? It won't even surprise me if you return to say yes it is. I don't think we've yet seen the depths which you're prepared to sink.

You mumus will not leave this matter of spellings and commas alone like a drowning man clutching at straws. Even in a video where they don't mention anything about spellings you're still arguing against the straws. This is so sad. pitiful.

You are emotional, wetin happen? When i said commas, i meant to say punctuations. i think my other posts have being more consistently describing punctuations and spellings. This is something that one can easily resolve/deduce with some common sense. "When we say that the Bible is infallible and inerrant. It is not in the context of punctuations and spellings, which are the major/bulk issues that 'scholars' usually present. Infallibility and inerrancy is in the context of what the Bible affirms and teaches."
Again, don't let your emotions becloud your comprehension and judgement. i said "This video and so called discoveries do not negatively impact the inspiration and inerrancy of the Bible." i was referring to THIS video and OTHERS, similar videos and discoveries. You forgot to answer the questions i asked you, here they are again.
Questions for the makers of the video and its similar, and for those that take such serious.
1. Is it possible to discover an earlier manuscript than the three or so Codex mentioned?
2. Is it possible for those earlier manuscripts to contain anything missing in the three or so codex?
3. Do you believe that the portions that are not missing(that are consistent) in all of the manuscripts are the Word of God?

Did you read me say this quote, and what do you think of it? "We know and agree that there are OF COURSE additions to every one Bible. Starting from various prefaces and concordances, and cross references. Even to the addition of chapters and verses which is more uniform."
Did you read this "The Old Testament Bible also had different versions and translations in the time of Jesus, the apostles and first century christians. They had variants too. But no sane person went beating up himself or herself or having sleepless nights. They still revered them as SCRIPTURE and the very Word of God. Variants and variations are only deeply unsettling and frightening for the unfaithful, not for the faithful. "
And this, "The reality on ground is that God keeps on honouring His Word(the Bible) till tomorrow. Evil spirits and sicknesses and circumstances continue to subject and tremble live at the Word of God. Sinners continue to be saved, humans transformed, believers made holy, and the righteous prepared for Heaven by the Word of God."

Yet again, All of the so called added verses of Mark are corroborated in other Scriptures by the way. So no worries, dump the tension. Here they are briefly. Also note that the three codex contain these OTHER passages outside Mark.

Mar 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Mar 16:10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
Mar 16:11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

Joh 20:14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
Joh 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
Joh 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Mar 16:12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
Mar 16:13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.

Luk 24:13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
Luk 24:14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
Luk 24:15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
Luk 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
Luk 24:33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
Luk 24:35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.

Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Luk 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luk 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
All the signs are seen in the Acts of the apostles.

Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Again, this is found in Acts of the apostles. No conspiracy or subtle additions or new gospel. Everything is corroborated by other parts of the scripture.

PastorAIO:
For those who are saying that there are no inconsistencies in the bible can you please tell me what time Jesus died. Did he die on the 3rd hour or did he die on the 6th hour. This is a simple matter of historical accuracy. To be historically inerrant you have got to be one or the other but not both.

What is historically inerrant is the fact that Jesus died. When He died is majorly insignificant. Who cares if He died 4:15pm or 20:00GMT? For all i know, He was slain from the foundation of the world. Jesus died on the cross and bare the sins of the world. He is the Lamb that taketh away the sins of the world, and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. This is history and it is what matters. i write reports and i have an idea what reports mean to be true or to be doctored. Even making jotting right there on site doesn't erase human frailty in penning down accounts. Not to mention getting back home or to the office the same day or the next week to write reports of what took place. Not to mention writing those reports 10years after or 30years after. The consistency and corroboration of the gospel accounts is top notch, and no serious person would be bugged with minor inconsistencies of numbers. Event A happened on monday or it happened on Tuesday. Ronaldo scored in the 77th minute or in the 80th minute, Nigeria equalized or took the lead in the first half or second half of the game, i arrived home around 10 or around 1. These things lose their importance and cock sure statistical accuracy with time. The real thing that stand out and are historically true are that Event A happened, Ronaldo scored, Nigeria did equalise or take the lead, i indeed arrived home. These are the things that truly matter when it's all being said and done.

Oh, and I've just discovered something my dear Image123. but first please remind me what it was you said about Metzger, the bible scholar. Something about him being a lord and oga and daddy to Ehrmann and a mighty scholar something or the other. what was it again? Oh yeah:

Metzger is a scholar, has done research and is Ehrman's oga , master, daddy and superior at any time 't'. Do you now agree to that?

So since you yourself have picked out this man as a scholarly authority, then let us see what he has to say.

i didn't just pick him out, he is what i said he is. Do you agree? He also reminds us that the Bible is more than 99% reliable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_consistency_of_the_Bible

He admits that the bible was doctored in so many different places, sometimes to smooth out inconsistencies that were already there. He mentions where Origen, the church father, 'altered Bethany to Bethabara in order to remove what he regarded as a geographical difficulty'.

The funny thing is that on that very same wiki page there we are told that Origen himself admitted that the gospels had been doctored. And all the while he himself was in involved in the doctoring process.

i've most likely seen whatever Metzger has to say before you ever heard his name, and i agree with what Metzger says. Of course, i know that there are variants and additions in the Bible. i so generally talked about different translations and versions, additions of prefaces, concordance, cross references, and even verses and chapters. These are all additions to start with. What i however emphasize is that one, the Scriptures cannot be broken, and two, not one tittle(if you know what a tittle means) of the Word of God can pass away. i know and agree that human instruments have their frailty when we quote, recite, read and write scriptures. These does not stop God or add anything to Him. The Word of God continues to work mightily. Nobody should think any less of the Word of God because man lives by EVERY Word of God. Man is washed by the Word, the soul is renewed till tomorrow by the Word, and the Word is still that the man of God may be perfect and thoroughly furnished unto all good work. It is not a time to turn to newspapers or some other source when the Word is God. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.

I never said that consistency was required for theological purposes or purposes of faith. But it is very important for scientific or historical purposes.

Faith is a different kettle of fish altogether. You can even build a faith around pop singer Beyonce and use her songs are scriptures. It possible. Hang on, wait a minute. Some people have done that already.

You can even take the same text and create various, rather different faiths or denominations or doctrines. That has been done too based on the bible. You see to do that doesn't require an inerrant text. It just requires a robust imagination.

One more thing lest i forget. 2Co 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. Joh 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
If you want to establish any word or teaching or doctrine, get it from the mouth of two or three witnesses. If one scripture is saying 3 and two others or more are saying 6, you should know now what to establish. And even as you establish, it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. This is what faith should be built on. It is on the solid, infallible and unchanging Word of God. Who is having faith in Jesus dying 3:00 or 3:30? Or in Jesus healing 2 or 15 lame men? Or in Jesus rising after three days or after one? Our faith is in Jesus, not in mathematics or statistics. Faith is in the atoning blood of the Lamb, in His resurrection, His ascension, the awesome power of His name and of His Word, the immeasurable nature of His grace. Take that to the bank, this is the faith that we earnestly contend for.

Image123:


What is historically inerrant is the fact that Jesus died. When He died is majorly insignificant. Who cares if He died 4:15pm or 20:00GMT? For all i know, He was slain from the foundation of the world. Jesus died on the cross and bare the sins of the world. He is the Lamb that taketh away the sins of the world, and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. This is history and it is what matters. i write reports and i have an idea what reports mean to be true or to be doctored. Even making jotting right there on site doesn't erase human frailty in penning down accounts. Not to mention getting back home or to the office the same day or the next week to write reports of what took place. Not to mention writing those reports 10years after or 30years after. The consistency and corroboration of the gospel accounts is top notch, and no serious person would be bugged with minor inconsistencies of numbers. Event A happened on monday or it happened on Tuesday. Ronaldo scored in the 77th minute or in the 80th minute, Nigeria equalized or took the lead in the first half or second half of the game, i arrived home around 10 or around 1. These things lose their importance and cock sure statistical accuracy with time. The real thing that stand out and are historically true are that Event A happened, Ronaldo scored, Nigeria did equalise or take the lead, i indeed arrived home. These are the things that truly matter when it's all being said and done.



Metzger is a scholar, has done research and is Ehrman's oga , master, daddy and superior at any time 't'. Do you now agree to that?


i didn't just pick him out, he is what i said he is. Do you agree? He also reminds us that the Bible is more than 99% reliable.




i've most likely seen whatever Metzger has to say before you ever heard his name, and i agree with what Metzger says. Of course, i know that there are variants and additions in the Bible. i so generally talked about different translations and versions, additions of prefaces, concordance, cross references, and even verses and chapters. These are all additions to start with. What i however emphasize is that one, the Scriptures cannot be broken, and two, not one tittle(if you know what a tittle means) of the Word of God can pass away. i know and agree that human instruments have their frailty when we quote, recite, read and write scriptures. These does not stop God or add anything to Him. The Word of God continues to work mightily. Nobody should think any less of the Word of God because man lives by EVERY Word of God. Man is washed by the Word, the soul is renewed till tomorrow by the Word, and the Word is still that the man of God may be perfect and thoroughly furnished unto all good work. It is not a time to turn to newspapers or some other source when the Word is God. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.






One more thing lest i forget. 2Co 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. Joh 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
If you want to establish any word or teaching or doctrine, get it from the mouth of two or three witnesses. If one scripture is saying 3 and two others or more are saying 6, you should know now what to establish. And even as you establish, it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. This is what faith should be built on. It is on the solid, infallible and unchanging Word of God. Who is having faith in Jesus dying 3:00 or 3:30? Or in Jesus healing 2 or 15 lame men? Or in Jesus rising after three days or after one? Our faith is in Jesus, not in mathematics or statistics. Faith is in the atoning blood of the Lamb, in His resurrection, His ascension, the awesome power of His name and of His Word, the immeasurable nature of His grace. Take that to the bank, this is the faith that we earnestly contend for.

Well said.