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Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by voxpopp: 2:32pm On Jul 21, 2014
Protestantism is a religious movement that
encompasses forms of Christian faith and practice
that originated with doctrines and religious, political,
and ecclesiological impulses of the Protestant
Reformation, against what they considered the errors
of the Roman Catholic Church.[1] It constitutes one of
the three primary divisions of Christianity, along with
Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.[2] The term
refers to the letter of protestation by Lutheran
princes against the decision of the Diet of Speyer in
1529, which reaffirmed the edict of the Diet of Worms
condemning the teachings of Martin Luther as
heresy.[3]


Source...wikipedia
Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by voxpopp: 2:41pm On Jul 21, 2014
And pls take note that protestantism is quite different from 20th century Pentecostalism,
Christian fundamentalism and Evangelicalism although they share the same divergent opinions from roman catholism belief and practises
Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by 99100(m): 2:44pm On Jul 21, 2014
italo:

Thanks for your reply. Just to let you know that I have no problem whatsoever with people with differing opinions from mine. What I have a problem with is insincerity and hypocrisy.

Allow me to ask you more questions based on this reply of yours.

1. When you say the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed, you agree it was founded by Jesus Christ?

2. You claim the Church was good until the Papacy ruined it. When did this happen? Give us a date or a timeframe at least...and tell us where you got the information from.

3. Are you serious and sincere when you say "anyone" against the papacy was burned? If you are, please give us the date the papacy went bad and I will provide evidence that what you said is false.

4. You said idolatry came in with veneration of saints. Give us the date when this came in.

5. where did you learn that Mary and statues take God's place...and who told you that prayers must pass through Mary to be legitimate and that she became more important than Christ to the Catholic Church? Pls tell us where the Catholic Church teaches that?

6. You said "The bible no longer became the final authority." Please tell us the date the bible came about, who brought about it, and when was the Bible ever the final authority?

Thanks.
Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Ubenedictus(m): 3:12pm On Jul 21, 2014
italo: This is in response to your statement that you're always sincere in your discussions with me.

Well, this is my own way of testing if you can actually be consistently sincere.

1. What is your opinion of the Catholic Church, its doctrine... and actively practising Catholics?
following.
Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by lastmessenger: 3:20pm On Jul 21, 2014
chukwudi44:

the churches the apostles founded where is it today?
you tell me
Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Nobody: 3:28pm On Jul 21, 2014
lastmessenger:
you tell me

I have already stated that catholic church remains the original church.if you don't agree,the onus is on you to adduce facts to subatantiate your claim

2 Likes

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by lastmessenger: 3:44pm On Jul 21, 2014
chukwudi44:

I have already stated that catholic church remains the original church.if you don't agree,the onus is on you to adduce facts to subatantiate your claim
Catholic Church started in Rome and infact was taken as the state Religion.The first church started in Jerusalem.you do not have anything to prove here because the church in Jerusalem has no resemblance whatsoever to the catholic church that we know today.

4 Likes

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by try69: 3:52pm On Jul 21, 2014
^^^^
Why is it so hard to tell the church that the apostles founded? Or it died? cheesy

4 Likes

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Nobody: 3:52pm On Jul 21, 2014
[/quote] It constitutes one of
the three primary divisions of Christianity, along with
Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.[2] [quote]

If pentecostals are not protestants then which of the three major divisions of christianity do they belong to?

1 Like

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Nobody: 3:55pm On Jul 21, 2014
lastmessenger:
Catholic Church started in Rome and infact was taken as the state Religion.The first church started in Jerusalem.you do not have anything to prove here because the church in Jerusalem has no resemblance whatsoever to the catholic church that we know today.

Stop making unsubstantiated claims,if you say the catholic church started in Rome,give me proof of that and state in what year it was.!!!!

5 Likes

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by lastmessenger: 4:05pm On Jul 21, 2014
chukwudi44:

Stop making unsubstantiated claims,if you say the catholic church started in Rome,give me proof of that and state in what year it was.!!!!
There is nothing to prove.what am telling you is a fact.at the same time nobody can connect the Roman catholic to the church in Jerusalem.

3 Likes

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Nobody: 5:16pm On Jul 21, 2014
lastmessenger:
There is nothing to prove.what am telling you is a fact.at the same time nobody can connect the Roman catholic to the church in Jerusalem.

if you have nothing t proof then what you are saying is no fact.We have the writings of the church fathers as wells as those of early christain and secular historians to prove our case.You have nothing but sentiments!!!

the link below contains an unbroken list of poPes from st Peter to the current Pope Francis 1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes

4 Likes

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by lastmessenger: 5:41pm On Jul 21, 2014
chukwudi44:

if you have nothing t proof then what you are saying is no fact.We have the writings of the church fathers as wells as those of early christain and secular historians to prove our case.You have nothing but sentiments!!!

the link below contains an unbroken list of poPes from st Peter to the current Pope Francis 1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes
Dont show wikipedia post written by the catholics to substantiate a false claim.

2 Likes

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by SalC: 6:08pm On Jul 21, 2014
lastmessenger:
Dont show wikipedia post written by the catholics to substantiate a false claim.
Then why not get us one, even if it's wikipedia claim to the contrary. You can't prove what you are saying yet you are here telling another to what not to get.
*still waiting and following*

1 Like

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by voxpopp: 6:11pm On Jul 21, 2014
chukwudi44: It constitutes one of
the three primary divisions of Christianity, along with
Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy.[2]

If pentecostals are not protestants then which of the three major divisions of christianity do they belong to?
Common man, what point are you trying to make? 20th century Pentecostalism, Christian fundamentalism and Evangelicalism all "evolved" from protestantism but aren't the same. I already pointed out that their similarities stems from the fact that they share the same divergent beliefs opposed to Roman Catholism. Modern day churches are mostly Pentecostals, Christian fundamentals and Evangelicals(not protestants). The protestants were more of a political movement during the period of the infamous "inquisitions" and persecutions by the Roman catholics and there relevance died down when the inquisitions stopped...(not without some form of bloody revolution anyway). After this revolution, modern day churches now sprang up from among liberated protestants. These includes the Pentecostals, Christian fundamentals, Evangelicals and other forms of christianity found nowadays like the seventh day adventists, jehovah witnesses just to mention a few.

So, the protestants were more of freedom fighters and that's what makes the difference.
Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Nobody: 6:28pm On Jul 21, 2014
lastmessenger:
Dont show wikipedia post written by the catholics to substantiate a false claim.
so wikipedia is now written by catholics !!! Chai chai!!

1 Like

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by lastmessenger: 7:17pm On Jul 21, 2014
chukwudi44: so wikipedia is now written by catholics !!! Chai chai!!
Anybody can paste an article in wikipedia.Even you can do that
Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by voxpopp: 7:46pm On Jul 21, 2014
And to you all confused about the name of the first christian church...it was addressed the as "THE CHURCH OF GOD" or "CHURCH OF CHRIST" in the new testament, depending on the translation. This is quite evident in the letters and epistles Paul used to write to his apostles in the new testament.

Read 1Corinthians 1 vs 2, Romans 16 vs 16

Thank you and God bless
Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Nobody: 8:56pm On Jul 21, 2014
voxpopp: And to you all confused about the name of the first christian church...it was addressed the as "THE CHURCH OF GOD" or "CHURCH OF CHRIST" in the new testament, depending on the translation. This is quite evident in the letters and epistles Paul used to write to his apostles in the new testament.

Read 1Corinthians 1 vs 2, Romans 16 vs 16

Thank you and God bless

So where is this church of God or church of Christ. Today? So where was it in the 2nd,3rd and the early centuries of christianity? Where were they when the bible was compilled by the "unchristly" catholic church? You people should learn to use your heads at times.The catholic church has records of christian leaders from the 1st,2nd centuries to the prseent day so how come no one has any extra biblical records of their existence?

2 Likes

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Nobody: 9:02pm On Jul 21, 2014
lastmessenger:
Anybody can paste an article in wikipedia.Even you can do that

If you paste any wrong info on wikipedia,it will be contested and if found credible will be removed!!!! That is why wikipedia is the most reliable online piece of information on the planet earth.

You just make baseless claims without any proof!! Arguing with you is just a waste of time

2 Likes

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Nobody: 9:11pm On Jul 21, 2014
voxpopp: Common man, what point are you trying to make? 20th century Pentecostalism, Christian fundamentalism and Evangelicalism all "evolved" from protestantism but aren't the same. I already pointed out that their similarities stems from the fact that they share the same divergent beliefs opposed to Roman Catholism. Modern day churches are mostly Pentecostals, Christian fundamentals and Evangelicals(not protestants). The protestants were more of a political movement during the period of the infamous "inquisitions" and persecutions by the Roman catholics and there relevance died down when the inquisitions stopped...(not without some form of bloody revolution anyway). After this revolution, modern day churches now sprang up from among liberated protestants. These includes the Pentecostals, Christian fundamentals, Evangelicals and other forms of christianity found nowadays like the seventh day adventists, jehovah witnesses just to mention a few.

So, the protestants were more of freedom fighters and that's what makes the difference.

You know nothing about church history but only hatred for the catholic church.The key protestant leaders martin luther and John calvin had their hands soiled in blood!! Martin encouraged the murder and persecution of jews and John calvin killed miceal servrtus for disgreeing with the doctrine of trinity!! So even your so called freedom fighters were also guilty of what you accuse catholics of

1 Like

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by JMAN05: 9:59pm On Jul 21, 2014
italo:

Thanks for your reply. Just to let you know that I have no problem whatsoever with people with differing opinions from mine. What I have a problem with is insincerity and hypocrisy.

Allow me to ask you more questions based on this reply of yours.

1. When you say the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed, you agree it was founded by Jesus Christ?

2. You claim the Church was good until the Papacy ruined it. When did this happen? Give us a date or a timeframe at least...and tell us where you got the information from.

3. Are you serious and sincere when you say "anyone" against the papacy was burned? If you are, please give us the date the papacy went bad and I will provide evidence that what you said is false.

4. You said idolatry came in with veneration of saints. Give us the date when this came in.

5. where did you learn that Mary and statues take God's place...and who told you that prayers must pass through Mary to be legitimate and that she became more important than Christ to the Catholic Church? Pls tell us where the Catholic Church teaches that?

6. You said "The bible no longer became the final authority." Please tell us the date the bible came about, who brought about it, and when was the Bible ever the final authority?

Thanks.

If you are sincere their are questions you should not be asking. You should know it happened. Unless Pastorolut has time for this circle dance.
Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by voxpopp: 10:55pm On Jul 21, 2014
chukwudi44:

You know nothing about church history but only hatred for the catholic church.The key protestant leaders martin luther and John calvin had their hands soiled in blood!! Martin encouraged the murder and persecution of jews and John calvin killed miceal servrtus for disgreeing with the doctrine of trinity!! So even your so called freedom fighters were also guilty of what you accuse catholics of

The more reason why I said it was a bloody revolution. It was like a war back then and in a war, there is always casualties on both sides. Am not in anyway in support of the protestants and some of their actions back then that's why I tried to emphasize the difference between protestantism and its off shoots after the revolution. Mind you, no one practices protestantism again...(Who are they protesting against).
Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by lastmessenger: 10:58pm On Jul 21, 2014
chukwudi44:

If you paste any wrong info on wikipedia,it will be contested and if found credible will be removed!!!! That is why wikipedia is the most reliable online piece of information on the planet earth.

You just make baseless claims without any proof!! Arguing with you is just a waste of time
Really?is not news that some information found in wikipedia are false.why should i go to internet to prove my point for you when the bible is there to show where and how the first church started.

2 Likes

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by voxpopp: 11:42pm On Jul 21, 2014
chukwudi44:

So where is this church of God or church of Christ. Today? So where was it in the 2nd,3rd and the early centuries of christianity? Where were they when the bible was compilled by the "unchristly" catholic church? You people should learn to use your heads at times.The catholic church has records of christian leaders from the 1st,2nd centuries to the prseent day so how come no one has any extra biblical records of their existence?

In the example that I cited from the scriptures concerning the original name of the first church, the bible was yet to be completed.

Another fact I will like to point at is that the canonical bible was not compiled by the catholics alone but rather by the council of Nicea and the process was arranged presided over by emperor constatine.

Other members of the coucil of Nicea includes Delegates from;
Assyrian Church of the East,
Eastern Orthodox
Oriental Orthodox
and Most Protestant Denominations
Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Ubenedictus(m): 2:16am On Jul 22, 2014
JMAN05:

If you are sincere their are questions you should not be asking. You should know it happened. Unless Pastorolut has time for this circle dance.


i think the exact opposite. If you are sincere you will answer the question. If the catholic church is a direct extension of the apostolic church as i think pastor olu says, then it is only right he show us exactly when the church diverge from teaching the gospel.


I'm sure he can tell italo about the dark ages untill italo is blue in the face but the truth s that exactly the gospel preached before the dark ages were the same thing taught after the dark ages. The christian doctrines never changed. If you think they changed then the onus is on you to show us when or give us a time frame of when it occured.

This isn't the time to make sentimental arguement like you did above.

3 Likes

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Ubenedictus(m): 2:20am On Jul 22, 2014
voxpopp: The more reason why I said it was a bloody revolution. It was like a war back then and in a war, there is always casualties on both sides. Am not in anyway in support of the protestants and some of their actions back then that's why I tried to emphasize the difference between protestantism and its off shoots after the revolution. Mind you, no one practices protestantism again...(Who are they protesting against).
protestanism still exist, mainstream protestants are lutherians(as the name implies it was formed by martin luther), the various "reformed" churches like the presbyterians(these took their teaching from calvin), the children include the fundamentalist, the evangelicals. They are classified as protestants.

3 Likes

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Ubenedictus(m): 2:26am On Jul 22, 2014
voxpopp:

In the example that I cited from the scriptures concerning the original name of the first church, the bible was yet to be completed.

Another fact I will like to point at is that the canonical bible was not compiled by the catholics alone but rather by the council of Nicea and the process was arranged presided over by emperor constatine.

Other members of the coucil of Nicea includes Delegates from;
Assyrian Church of the East,
Eastern Orthodox
Oriental Orthodox
and Most Protestant Denominations

this only shows your ignorance of this subject in particular and of church history in general.

1st, the council of nicea didn't compile the bible, it had nothing to do with compiling the bible, it instead condemned the arian heresy.

2nd protestanist began in th 16th century, the council was held in nice in the 4th cent B.C, no protestant church existed then.

4 Likes

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Nobody: 5:44am On Jul 22, 2014
voxpopp:

In the example that I cited from the scriptures concerning the original name of the first church, the bible was yet to be completed.

Another fact I will like to point at is that the canonical bible was not compiled by the catholics alone but rather by the council of Nicea and the process was arranged presided over by emperor constatine.

Other members of the coucil of Nicea includes Delegates from;
Assyrian Church of the East,
Eastern Orthodox
Oriental Orthodox
and Most Protestant Denominations

Chei chei see lies and ignorance on display!!! The council of nicea did not compile nor even discuss anything about the canonisation of the bible!!! Secondly all the churches you listed did not exist by 325 when the first council of nicea held.

The assyrian chrch of the east- left the catholic church in 431 CE affter the council of ephesus in 431 which discussed the nestorian controveresy!!

The oriental orthodox church-left the catholic church in 451 CE after the council of chcedon

East orthodox church-left the catholic church in 1054CE during the east-west chism

Protestantism- was formed in the 16th century during the reformation!!!

Including protestants in this your claim shows your level of mischief

How the assyrian church of the east left the church

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Ephesus

2 Likes

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Nobody: 7:41am On Jul 22, 2014
how the roriental orthodox church left the catholic church


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Chalcedon

how the east orthodox church left the catholic church

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East-West_Schism

the main agendas actually discussed at the first council of nicea

Agenda and procedure[edit]


The agenda of the synod included:
1.The Arian question regarding the relationship between God the Father and the Son (not only in his incarnate form as Jesus, but also in his nature before the creation of the world); i.e., are the Father and Son one in divine purpose only or also one in being?
2.The date of celebration of Pascha/Easter
3.The Meletian schism
4.Various matters of church discipline, which resulted in twenty canons 1.Church structures: focused on the ordering of the episcopacy
2.Dignity of the clergy: issues of ordination at all levels and of suitability of behavior and background for clergy
3.Reconciliation of the lapsed: establishing norms for public repentance and penance
4.Readmission to the Church of heretics and schismatics: including issues of when reordination and/or rebaptism were to be required
5.Liturgical practice: including the place of deacons, and the practice of standing at prayer during liturgy[33

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

1 Like

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Nobody: 7:45am On Jul 22, 2014
the canon 24 of the council of carthage which finalised the books of the bible in 419CE.This same canon has earlier been adopted by the synod of hippo 393CE and council of carthage in 397ce

Canon 24. (Greek xxvii.)

That nothing be read in church besides the Canonical Scripture

Item, that besides the Canonical Scriptures nothing be read in church under the name of divine Scripture.

But the Canonical Scriptures are as follows:
•Genesis.
•Exodus.
•Leviticus.
•Numbers.
•Deuteronomy.
•Joshua the Son of Nun.
•The Judges.
•Ruth.
•The Kings, iv. books.
•The Chronicles, ij. books.
•Job.
•The Psalter.
•The Five books of Solomon.
•The Twelve Books of the Prophets.
•Isaiah.
•Jeremiah.
•Ezechiel.
•Daniel.
•Tobit.
•Judith.
•Esther.
•Ezra, ij. books.
•Macchabees, ij. books. ◦The New Testament. ■The Gospels, iv. books.
■The Acts of the Apostles, j. book.
■The Epistles of Paul, xiv.
■The Epistles of Peter, the Apostle, ij.
■The Epistles of John the Apostle, iij.
■The Epistles of James the Apostle, j.
■The Epistle of Jude the Apostle, j.
■The Revelation of John, j. book.



Let this be sent to our brother and fellow bishop, Boniface, and to the other bishops of those parts, that they may confirm this canon, for these are the things which we have received from our fathers to be read in church
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3816.htm

1 Like

Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by Nobody: 7:52am On Jul 22, 2014
voxpopp: The more reason why I said it was a bloody revolution. It was like a war back then and in a war, there is always casualties on both sides. Am not in anyway in support of the protestants and some of their actions back then that's why I tried to emphasize the difference between protestantism and its off shoots after the revolution. Mind you, no one practices protestantism again...(Who are they protesting against).

bros abeg just go to your dictionary and check the meaning of the words protestants and protestantism and get back to me!!!which stupid bloody revoluton are youe even talking about BTW?

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