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Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? - Religion - Nairaland

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Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? by MarkMiwerds(m): 7:08am On Aug 08, 2014
In 1 Samuel 15:22, we read:

And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Somehow, pastors in our pulpits across this great nation and around the world have begun teaching their congregations just the opposite… that sacrifice is better than obedience.

How can I say this? and from where do I draw this conclusion? From the pastors themselves, when they teach people to “Obey God, and tithe your money!”[/color] Let’s look at what the Scriptures say concerning tithes, shall we?

If one does a search for every instance where tithe is commanded in the Word of God, one will discover that each and every command was directed, [color=#550000]not to the New Testament Church, but to Israel
. Here are a few references with brief explanations:

Lev 27:30-34 (God's holy tithe is described as agricultural, not money & is for the children of Israel)

Num 18:21-28 [/b]God said He gave His tithe to the Levite for their inheritance.

[b]Deut. 14:22-27
is a second tithe for the children of Israel. This tithe was to be eaten by the tither, his household, and the Levites. Note that this tithe could be sold for money if the way was too far or if the tithe was too heavy to carry to Jerusalem. (where God’s Tabernacle was and later where the Temple was) This tithe was observed every first, second, fourth,& fifth year in a seven year cycle.

Deut 14:28-29 is a third tithe often called the Poor tithe. It is kept in the tither’s city and used to feed the widows, orphans, Levites, and foreigner’s visiting the city. This tithe was observed every third and sixth year in a seven year cycle.

Lev. 25:3-8 Every seventh year, the land was to rest. There could be no sowing, nor reaping. This means that there was no crop tithe required, as it was impossible to tithe from crops that could not be harvested.

Deut. 12:1-11 is important. There, we read that the Israelites were not to begin tithing until they crossed over Jordan and entered the land that God had promised their father Jacob. (see Gen 28:13-15) This shows that God did not want tithes from Gentile soil. Verse 8 also tells us that man could not do what seemed right in his own eyes. This means that the tithe could not have been anything other than what God said it was to be…agricultural products. God’s commanded tithe was never money.

Malachi 3:6-12 Many pastors only begin reading at verse 8 which shows a command to bring the tithes to the storehouse. But verse 6 is important, as it shows who God was speaking to. It must be pointed out that the storehouse was not in any location other than the House of God, The Temple in Jerusalem.

Malachi was a contemporary of Nehemiah. In Nehemiah, we read that Eliashib the descendant of Aaron had emptied the storehouse of the tithes, firstfruits and holy things and moved the enemy of God ,Tobiah the Ammonite, into those chambers.

When rebuked for their evil, they were commanded to bring everything back to the storehouse chambers. Read the text carefully, because the Priests brought everything back but the tithes that they had stolen. Judah brought more tithes in, but the tithe that was stolen was not brought back.

And hence, Malachi’s rebuke to "bring ye all the tithes to the storehouse". It was not the children of Israel who had robbed God, but the Priests. The Priests were the robbers of the storehouse tithe.

Nehemiah 10:37-38 is important when studying tithes. God shows us there a few truths that many pastors do not want their congregations to hear. First, that tithes and firstfruits are not the same. The children of Israel were to take the firstfruits to the House of God and into the chambers. But the tithe, they were to take to the cities of their tillage, to the Levites, who, in turn, were required to bring a tithe of the tithe to the House of God, to the chambers. Shoots down the claim that tithe was off of the top.

That opens our eyes to another truth. That it was not 10% of Israel’s total produce that went to the House of God[/color]. Rather, it was only 1%. It was the tithe of the tithe that was taken to the House of God. It was the [color=#990000]ministers of the House of God that were required to tithe to the House of God, not the congregation.

Let’s read on…

We have already established the fact that God said it was the Israelites that were required to ‪#‎tithe‬. ( Leviticus 27:34 ) But notice Psalm 147:19-20 … the Laws that He gave to Israel were given to no other nation. Gentiles were not required to tithe.

Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42 are often used to claim Jesus tells us to tithe. But again, who was He addressing? scribes and Pharisees, Israelites who were required to tithe. Jesus was simply telling them to keep the Law that was given to them. And what did He say they were ‪#‎tithing‬ and to continue tithing? Agricultural products, just as the law required. Had He been telling them to tithe money, He would have been going against the very command of His Father who said man could not do what seemed right in His own eyes. ( Deut 12:8 )

Flash forward to AD 51. At the Jerusalem Council, the religious leaders, Jews, heard that Salvation was being offered to Gentiles. James reveals in Acts 15:23-29 that those who tried to put Gentiles under the Mosaic Law were attempting to subvert or overthrow the souls of the Gentiles. Not good. The Apostles and the Holy Ghost made a decision that the Gentiles were not to be required to keep the Law, but were only to observe four necessary things. Tithing was not one of those “necessary things". Eight years later, James reminds Paul of the decision at the Jerusalem Council. Acts 21:24-25. The Gentiles were not to be required to keep the Law of Moses.

The last place that tithing is commanded is found in Hebrews 7:5-8. There, we read that it is not the Church commanded to take ‪#‎tithes‬. Rather, it is the sons of Levi. And the tithes they are commanded to take are to be from their brethren, (the tribes of Isreal) and “according to the Law”[/color] . As pointed out previously, the Law said that tithes were agricultural, not money.

So, you see, when one studies the Word of God, it is clear that the [color=#990000]Church was never commanded to tithe
. The tithe command was given to ancient Israel and no other nation.

I encourage you to open your Bible, read the passages I have referred to and commented on. You will see what I have said is in perfect agreement with what Scripture says concerning tithing.

Since God’s Word says the Laws He gave to Israel were given to no other nation, aren’t pastor’s tempting God when they teach people that God requires tithes, a command found only in the House of the Law? ( see Acts 15:10 ) In light of these facts, it is clear that the pastor is not teaching one to be obedient to God, but rather to sacrifice their money on the altar of his false doctrine of the monetary tithe.

To teach people to submit to Malachi 3:10 by tithing is tantamount to instructing them to spend the night in the bed of a harlot.

Romans 7:1 (KJV) Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Romans 7:2 (KJV) For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Romans 7:3 (KJV) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Romans 7:4 (KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. #tithes

pay close attention to verses 3&4

7 Likes

Re: Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? by PastorKun(m): 6:46am On Aug 10, 2014
How did I miss this earlier? Absolutely brilliant presentation and perspective on the tithe subject matter. It's a must read for every tither.
Re: Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? by Nobody: 10:48am On Aug 10, 2014
Jesus says theyloved the praises of men more than the honour from God..
Op without knowledge will u receive the praised and congratulations from pastorkun or repent of ur heresy and be honoured by God and be dismissed by this evil lukewarm christians like pastorkun, frosbel and his satanic company
Re: Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? by PastorKun(m): 1:31pm On Aug 10, 2014
ProphetUdeme: Jesus says theyloved the praises of men more than the honour from God..
Op without knowledge will u receive the praised and congratulations from pastorkun or repent of ur heresy and be honoured by God and be dismissed by this evil lukewarm christians like pastorkun, frosbel and his satanic company

Why don't you point out were the OP is wrong using scripture to back up your assertions instead of making daft and moronic statements inspired by your fear of loosing your source of filthy lucre.

2 Likes

Re: Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? by BabaGnoni: 1:37pm On Aug 10, 2014
MarkMiwerds:

In 1 Samuel 15:22, we read:

And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Somehow, pastors in our pulpits across this great nation and around the world have begun teaching their congregations just the opposite… that sacrifice is better than obedience.

How can I say this? and from where do I draw this conclusion? From the pastors themselves, when they teach people to “Obey God, and tithe your money!”

Let’s look at what the Scriptures say concerning tithes, shall we?

If one does a search for every instance where tithe is commanded in the Word of God, one will discover that each and every command was directed, not to the New Testament Church, but to Israel
.

Here are a few references with brief explanations:

Lev 27:30-34 (God's holy tithe is described as agricultural, not money & is for the children of Israel)

Num 18:21-28 God said He gave His tithe to the Levite for their inheritance.

Deut. 14:22-27 is a second tithe for the children of Israel. This tithe was to be eaten by the tither, his household, and the Levites. Note that this tithe could be sold for money if the way was too far or if the tithe was too heavy to carry to Jerusalem. (where God’s Tabernacle was and later where the Temple was) This tithe was observed every first, second, fourth,& fifth year in a seven year cycle.

Deut 14:28-29 is a third tithe often called the Poor tithe. It is kept in the tither’s city and used to feed the widows, orphans, Levites, and foreigner’s visiting the city. This tithe was observed every third and sixth year in a seven year cycle.

Lev. 25:3-8 Every seventh year, the land was to rest. There could be no sowing, nor reaping. This means that there was no crop tithe required, as it was impossible to tithe from crops that could not be harvested.

Deut. 12:1-11 is important. There, we read that the Israelites were not to begin tithing until they crossed over Jordan and entered the land that God had promised their father Jacob. (see Gen 28:13-15) This shows that God did not want tithes from Gentile soil. Verse 8 also tells us that man could not do what seemed right in his own eyes. This means that the tithe could not have been anything other than what God said it was to be…agricultural products. God’s commanded tithe was never money.

Malachi 3:6-12 Many pastors only begin reading at verse 8 which shows a command to bring the tithes to the storehouse. But verse 6 is important, as it shows who God was speaking to. It must be pointed out that the storehouse was not in any location other than the House of God, The Temple in Jerusalem.

Malachi was a contemporary of Nehemiah. In Nehemiah, we read that Eliashib the descendant of Aaron had emptied the storehouse of the tithes, firstfruits and holy things and moved the enemy of God ,Tobiah the Ammonite, into those chambers.

When rebuked for their evil, they were commanded to bring everything back to the storehouse chambers. Read the text carefully, because the Priests brought everything back but the tithes that they had stolen. Judah brought more tithes in, but the tithe that was stolen was not brought back.

And hence, Malachi’s rebuke to "bring ye all the tithes to the storehouse". It was not the children of Israel who had robbed God, but the Priests. The Priests were the robbers of the storehouse tithe.

Nehemiah 10:37-38 is important when studying tithes. God shows us there a few truths that many pastors do not want their congregations to hear. First, that tithes and firstfruits are not the same. The children of Israel were to take the firstfruits to the House of God and into the chambers. But the tithe, they were to take to the cities of their tillage, to the Levites, who, in turn, were required to bring a tithe of the tithe to the House of God, to the chambers. Shoots down the claim that tithe was off of the top.

That opens our eyes to another truth. That it was not 10% of Israel’s total produce that went to the House of God. Rather, it was only 1%. It was the tithe of the tithe that was taken to the House of God. It was the ministers of the House of God that were required to tithe to the House of God, not the congregation.

Let’s read on…

We have already established the fact that God said it was the Israelites that were required to ‪#‎tithe‬. ( Leviticus 27:34 ) But notice Psalm 147:19-20 … the Laws that He gave to Israel were given to no other nation. Gentiles were not required to tithe.

Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42 are often used to claim Jesus tells us to tithe. But again, who was He addressing? scribes and Pharisees, Israelites who were required to tithe. Jesus was simply telling them to keep the Law that was given to them. And what did He say they were ‪#‎tithing‬ and to continue tithing? Agricultural products, just as the law required. Had He been telling them to tithe money, He would have been going against the very command of His Father who said man could not do what seemed right in His own eyes. ( Deut 12:8 )

Flash forward to AD 51. At the Jerusalem Council, the religious leaders, Jews, heard that Salvation was being offered to Gentiles. James reveals in Acts 15:23-29 that those who tried to put Gentiles under the Mosaic Law were attempting to subvert or overthrow the souls of the Gentiles. Not good. The Apostles and the Holy Ghost made a decision that the Gentiles were not to be required to keep the Law, but were only to observe four necessary things. Tithing was not one of those “necessary things". Eight years later, James reminds Paul of the decision at the Jerusalem Council. Acts 21:24-25. The Gentiles were not to be required to keep the Law of Moses.

The last place that tithing is commanded is found in Hebrews 7:5-8. There, we read that it is not the Church commanded to take ‪#‎tithes‬. Rather, it is the sons of Levi. And the tithes they are commanded to take are to be from their brethren, (the tribes of Isreal) and “according to the Law” As pointed out previously, the Law said that tithes were agricultural, not money.

So, you see, when one studies the Word of God, it is clear that the Church was never commanded to tithe
. The tithe command was given to ancient Israel and no other nation.

I encourage you to open your Bible, read the passages I have referred to and commented on. You will see what I have said is in perfect agreement with what Scripture says concerning tithing.

Since God’s Word says the Laws He gave to Israel were given to no other nation, aren’t pastor’s tempting God when they teach people that God requires tithes, a command found only in the House of the Law? ( see Acts 15:10 ) In light of these facts, it is clear that the pastor is not teaching one to be obedient to God, but rather to sacrifice their money on the altar of his false doctrine of the monetary tithe.

To teach people to submit to Malachi 3:10 by tithing is tantamount to instructing them to spend the night in the bed of a harlot.

Romans 7:1 (KJV) Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Romans 7:2 (KJV) For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Romans 7:3 (KJV) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Romans 7:4 (KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. #tithes

pay close attention to verses 3&4

ProphetUdeme: Jesus says they loved the praises of men more than the honour from God..
Op without knowledge will u receive the praised and congratulations from pastorkun
or repent of ur heresy and be honoured by God and be dismissed by this evil lukewarm christians like pastorkun, frosbel and his satanic company

PastorKun:

Why don't you point out were the OP is wrong using scripture to back up your assertions
instead of making daft and moronic statements inspired by your fear of loosing your source of filthy lucre.

@ProphetUdeme(m), @MarkMiwerds

MarkMiwerds, good post...
here is to putting the records straight on:
"...It was not the children of Israel who had robbed God, but the Priests.
The Priests were the robbers of the storehouse tithe."
- MarkMiwerds


According to Malachi 3:3, OP or this thread actually meant the Levites as opposed to priests
- Malachi 3:3 NIV "He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites
and refine them like gold and silver. Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness
"
- the Levites give a tithe of tithes to the priests (i.e. the priests were Aaron and his sons or offspring)
- also the fact that all priests were Levites but not all Levites were priests (i.e. so referring to the Levites who were not priests)
Re: Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? by MarkMiwerds(m): 4:12pm On Aug 10, 2014
ProphetUdeme: Jesus says theyloved the praises of men more than the honour from God..
Op without knowledge will u receive the praised and congratulations from pastorkun or repent of ur heresy and be honoured by God and be dismissed by this evil lukewarm christians like pastorkun, frosbel and his satanic company
I do not believe Pastor was praising me. He simply was stating that what I wrote was brilliant.

PastorKun and frosbel satanic? Really? Please tell me how they are satanic? what have they said to make you think they are satanic?

1 Like

Re: Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? by MarkMiwerds(m): 4:29pm On Aug 10, 2014
BabaGnoni:





@ProphetUdeme(m), @MarkMiwerds

MarkMiwerds, good post...
here is to putting the records straight on:
"...It was not the children of Israel who had robbed God, but the Priests.
The Priests were the robbers of the storehouse tithe."
- MarkMiwerds


According to Malachi 3:3, OP or this thread actually meant the Levites as opposed to priests
- Malachi 3:3 NIV "He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites
and refine them like gold and silver. Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness
"
- the Levites give a tithe of tithes to the priests (i.e. the priests were Aaron and his sons or offspring)
- also the fact that all priests were Levites but not all Levites were priests (i.e. so referring to the Levites who were not priests)
BabaGnoni,

Thanks for the input. However, I do believe it is the priests that verses 7-12 are referring to. We must remember that the Aaronic Priests are also sons of Levi>

What I see in the Word is the children of Israel taking the tithe to the Levitic cities, (Neh 10:37-38 )
The Levites taking a tithe of the tithe to the storehouse (Neh 10:37-38)
But Eliashib the Priest had removed the tithes from the storehouse (Neh 13)
Those tithes were not brought back in, so were still seen to be "stolen" (Neh 13)

Eliashib was a priest during the time that Malachi was written. I am convinced that he didn't haul off those tithes on his own, but would have had help by other priests. I believe God was calling them to bring back those tithes.

Notice in Nehemiah 13...

Nehemiah 13:10 (KJV) And I perceived that the portions of the Levites had not been given them: for the Levites and the singers, that did the work, were fled every one to his field.

Notice the rebuke was not that the Levite had taken food out, but rather that their food, their sustenance, had been taken from them and the Levites, (not the Aaronic line of Levites, but their brethren) had not been given their portion. But notice, it was only Levites who were authorized to perform the duties of the Temple, sacrifices, burnt offerings, wave offerings, etc.. If the Levites had all returned to the field, and this included the Priests, who was Nehemiah rebuking at the Temple? LOL

It is clear that the Priests were there, for in Malachi 1, 2 & 3, we see God speaking to the Priests; rebuking them for offering sacrifices that were not acceptable and rebuking them for other practices as well. The Priests, sons of Levi, were there but the remainder of the Levitic staff had returned to the field for their sustenance.

We know their portion had been in the House of God previously, else Eliashib would not have been able to remove it as he did.

Again, I see the sons of Levi in Malachi 3:3 as the lower ministerial staff and not the Aaronic Priests

2 Likes

Re: Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? by PastorKun(m): 5:30pm On Aug 10, 2014
MarkMiwerds: I do not believe Pastor was praising me. He simply was stating that what I wrote was brilliant.

PastorKun and frosbel satanic? Really? Please tell me how they are satanic? what have they said to make you think they are satanic?

Don't mind the petty thief, as far as he is concerned anybody that speaks out against the fraudulent tithe doctrine or any other mamon inspired doctrine is satanic.

4 Likes

Re: Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? by BabaGnoni: 5:48pm On Aug 10, 2014
MarkMiwerds: BabaGnoni,

Thanks for the input. However, I do believe it is the priests that verses 7-12 are referring to. We must remember that the Aaronic Priests are also sons of Levi>

What I see in the Word is the children of Israel taking the tithe to the Levitic cities, (Neh 10:37-38 )
The Levites taking a tithe of the tithe to the storehouse (Neh 10:37-38)
But Eliashib the Priest had removed the tithes from the storehouse (Neh 13)
Those tithes were not brought back in, so were still seen to be "stolen" (Neh 13)

Eliashib was a priest during the time that Malachi was written. I am convinced that he didn't haul off those tithes on his own, but would have had help by other priests. I believe God was calling them to bring back those tithes.

@MarkMiwerds

Very interesting, and I think you could be right, as I've just gone to check (i.e. gone over the various reforms etc done by Nehemiah)

The indictments I found were that, Eliashib sublet the storeroom to Tobiah (i.e. this apart from the grave no-no of giving an Ammonite, an enemy residence within the temple precincts) hence this means tithes were no longer kept or stored in it
and then one of Eliashib grandsons had married a daughter of Sanballat the Horonite (i.e. mix-marriage or intermarried by getting a foreign wife)

If Eliashib and his grandson could flout God's directive(s) so cheaply as they did (i.e. compromise), it seems questionable character must run in the family of Eliashib then.

Going through Nehemiah 12:44 and 47, Nehemiah 13:4-13 and Malachi 3:10, it does seem there is a likelihood of a collusion, there was a collapse of the system and degree of distrust of the priests etc went on

I can see that the whole nation tithe avoidance mushroomed from Eliashib and Co's derelictions of duties, after which the Israelites stopped giving tithes because they could see that the Levites and priests weren't duly using it as expected, since the Israelite have started withholding giving the tithes, this then likely lead to them using their own discretion with the tithes leading to God's accusation in Malachi 3:10 that tithe weren't given.

Provisions for Temple Worship
44On that day men were appointed to be in charge of the storerooms for the offerings, the first part of the harvest, and the tithes.
They were responsible to collect from the fields outside the towns the portions required by the Law for the priests and Levites.
For all the people of Judah took joy in the priests and Levites and their work.
47So now, in the days of Zerubbabel and of Nehemiah, all Israel brought a daily supply of food for the singers, the gatekeepers, and the Levites.
The Levites, in turn, gave a portion of what they received to the priests, the descendants of Aaron.

- Nehemiah 12:44,47 NLT


4Before this had happened, Eliashib the priest, who had been appointed as supervisor of the storerooms of the Temple of our God and who was also a relative of Tobiah,
5had converted a large storage room and placed it at Tobiah’s disposal. The room had previously been used for storing the grain offerings, the frankincense, various articles for the Temple, and the tithes of grain, new wine, and olive oil (which were prescribed for the Levites, the singers, and the gatekeepers), as well as the offerings for the priests.
6I was not in Jerusalem at that time, for I had returned to King Artaxerxes of Babylon in the thirty-second year of his reign, though I later asked his permission to return.
7When I arrived back in Jerusalem, I learned about Eliashib’s evil deed in providing Tobiah with a room in the courtyards of the Temple of God.
8I became very upset and threw all of Tobiah’s belongings out of the room.
9Then I demanded that the rooms be purified, and I brought back the articles for God’s Temple, the grain offerings, and the frankincense.
10I also discovered that the Levites had not been given their prescribed portions of food, so they and the singers who were to conduct the worship services had all returned to work their fields.
11I immediately confronted the leaders and demanded, “Why has the Temple of God been neglected?” Then I called all the Levites back again and restored them to their proper duties.
12And once more all the people of Judah began bringing their tithes of grain, new wine, and olive oil to the Temple storerooms
13I assigned supervisors for the storerooms: Shelemiah the priest, Zadok the scribe, and Pedaiah, one of the Levites.
And I appointed Hanan son of Zaccur and grandson of Mattaniah as their assistant.
These men had an excellent reputation, and it was their job to make honest distributions to their fellow Levites.

28One of the sons of Joiada son of Eliashib the high priest had married a daughter of Sanballat the Horonite, so I banished him from my presence.
29Remember them, O my God, for they have defiled the priesthood and the solemn vows of the priests and Levites.
30So I purged out everything foreign and assigned tasks to the priests and Levites, making certain that each knew his work.
31I also made sure that the supply of wood for the altar and the first portions of the harvest were brought at the proper times.
Remember this in my favor, O my God.

- Nehemiah 13:4-13, 28-31 NLT


"You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation of you!
- Malachi 3:9 New American Standard Bible


So it was everyone guilty - primarily the priests, Levites and then the whole nation of Israel

1 Like

Re: Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? by MarkMiwerds(m): 5:53pm On Aug 10, 2014
BabaGnoni,

I added more to that post to explain further just prior to your last post. You may want to read that and compare with the Word of God as well.

1 Like

Re: Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? by BabaGnoni: 6:45pm On Aug 10, 2014
MarkMiwerds: BabaGnoni,

I added more to that post to explain further just prior to your last post.
You may want to read that and compare with the Word of God as well.

MarkMiwerds, those were well worth additions. Well done sir...
- Eliashib the priest's association with Tobiah, is bad company corrupts good character (i.e. 1 Corinthians 15:33) and inevitable disaster waiting to happen
- Thievery did happen and the trail sure led to Eliashib, which is why Nehemiah sacked Eliashib and in Nehemiah 13:13 replaced him with Shelemiah
- Lastly, I think your additions also sits well with the below (i.e. the original "Levithical priesthood" - Priests and Levites)

Who were the Priests and Levites?
- All priests were Levites but not all Levites were priests
- The priests originally were Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar (Refer to Exodus 28:1 and Numbers 3:2-4 for details)
- The Levites are the descendants of Levi, who had 3 sons, namely Gershon, Kohath and Merari

- For the service and work of God, the Levites were organized into 3 levels of service based on the Levi family tree (Refer to Numbers 3:6-10)
- The first level of service formed the priesthood, was composed of Aaron and his offspring (Refer to Numbers 3:10 for details)
- Aaron and his sons were descendants of Levi's son, Kohath
(i.e. Aaron's his first sons, Nadab and Abihu were consumed by fire, the other two were Eleazar and Ithamar)
- The second level is formed for those to be in charge of the most sacred parts of the Tabernacle
They are the remaining descendants of Kohath who were not descendants of Aaron (Refer to: Numbers 3:27-32, 4:4-15, 7:9 for details)
- The third level is formed for the lesser duties of service
it comprised of all of the descendants of Gershon and Merari (Refer to: Numbers 3:18,20-26,33-37 for details)

1 Like

Re: Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? by DrummaBoy(m): 8:54pm On Aug 10, 2014
While MarkMiwerds might be right in regards to who was actually failing to bring the tithes to the storehouse, I think such technicalities should be reserved for theologians. Truth is that I have never been able to understand why it is the Levite's or the priests that were failing in duty. I feel that understanding the Malachi 3 scripture as the whole nation of Israel failing to bring tithes to the storehouse is sufficient for the ordinary man to understand. This does not remove from the fact that Malach 3:8-12 is a message to the Jewish church not the Christian Church.

MarkMiwerds and BabaGnoni is there any danger in simply believing that those who refused to remit the tithes were all the Jewish nation and not just Levites or priests?
Re: Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? by BabaGnoni: 9:41pm On Aug 10, 2014
DrummaBoy:
While MarkMiwerds might be right in regards to who was actually failing to bring the tithes to the storehouse, I think such technicalities should be reserved for theologians. Truth is that I have never been able to understand why it is the Levite's or the priests that were failing in duty. I feel that understanding the Malachi 3 scripture as the whole nation of Israel failing to bring tithes to the storehouse is sufficient for the ordinary man to understand. This does not remove from the fact that Malach 3:8-12 is a message to the Jewish church not the Christian Church.

MarkMiwerds and BabaGnoni is there any danger in simply believing that those who refused to remit the tithes were all the Jewish nation and not just Levites or priests?

@DrummaBoy

6I was not in Jerusalem at that time, for I had returned to King Artaxerxes of Babylon in the thirty-second year of his reign, though I later asked his permission to return.
7When I arrived back in Jerusalem, I learned about Eliashib’s evil deed in providing Tobiah with a room in the courtyards of the Temple of God.
8I became very upset and threw all of Tobiah’s belongings out of the room.
9Then I demanded that the rooms be purified, and I brought back the articles for God’s Temple, the grain offerings, and the frankincense.
10I also discovered that the Levites had not been given their prescribed portions of food, so they and the singers who were to conduct the worship services had all returned to work their fields.
11I immediately confronted the leaders and demanded, “Why has the Temple of God been neglected?” Then I called all the Levites back again and restored them to their proper duties.
12And once more all the people of Judah began bringing their tithes of grain, new wine, and olive oil to the Temple storerooms

- Nehemiah 13:6-12 NLT


MarkMiwerds is right because it can be seen in Nehemiah 13:6-12 that the whole tithe withholding scandal started from someone's abandonment of duty (i.e. Eliashib)
Nehemiah in verse 10, discovered that the Levites weren't given their prescribed portions of food, leaving them to sort of fend for themselves. At verse 11 , Nehemiah (i.e. the governor) queried this and recalled the Levites back to their posts, then at verse 12, the people formerly withholding their tithes began bringing them back (i.e. after sanity or confidence was restored to the system)

The tithe impasse was caused by the priest Eliashib and Co, this mushroomed and caused the domino effect that stopped the tithe giving process, the backlash filtered through or cascaded right across the nation (i.e. tithes were not forthcoming as people stopped given it)

The issue is that the priest rely on the Levites to bring in the tithes, the Levites rely on the people to bring the tithes, the people are not giving tithes to the Levites because the system has failed and collapsed (i.e. Eliashib and Co were corrupt)
It wasnt until Nehemiah brought in reforms that all fears and doubt were allayed.

You're right the message was to the Jewish nation and not the Christian Church however we can learn lessons from it
albeit not the sort of twisted and distorted teachings given on it by tithe merchants

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Re: Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? by Princewell2012(m): 12:25am On Feb 26, 2015
@markmiwerd, this is a very good one, hope they will learn from this. God bless you. U see, there re differents between a prophet and a priest, malachi is a prophet whom God sent to reminds isreal of his law which they have abandoned, the duty of a prophet then, was to warn people (isreal) to returned to God by keeping his comandment, so the isrealites as a whole have abandoned the law of tithes, there4 God had to send a prophet to warn them. Because he (God) never undermine any of his law. Even when Jesus was still around phisically, the pharisees still obeys the laws of moses, sush as the case of the adultrous woman. But when Jesus died, those laws (ceremonial law) became obsolete.

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Re: Sacrifice... Better Than Obedience? by MarkMiwerds(m): 3:06pm On Feb 26, 2015
Princewell2012:
@markmiwerd, this is a very good one, hope they will learn from this. God bless you. U see, there re differents between a prophet and a priest, malachi is a prophet whom God sent to reminds isreal of his law which they have abandoned, the duty of a prophet then, was to warn people (isreal) to returned to God by keeping his comandment, so the isrealites as a whole have abandoned the law of tithes, there4 God had to send a prophet to warn them. Because he (God) never undermine any of his law. Even when Jesus was still around phisically, the pharisees still obeys the laws of moses, sush as the case of the adultrous woman. But when Jesus died, those laws (ceremonial law) became obsolete.
thanks!

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