When Adam was created and put in the suposedly heavenly Eden, no one told him there would be an EVIL tree in this paradise.
When the Israelites were led out of Egypt they were not told they would FIGHT their way to Canaan.
The Israelites were told that the promised land was flowing with Milk and Honey. Today they are still looking for the Milk and Honey!

The new testament says "come unto me all ye who are heavily laden and i'll give you rest". And then later says "take up your cross and follow me"-no rest.

It also says "seek ye first the kingdom of God and all other things shall be added to you". Today christians are paying tithes and sowing seed for those things to be added.
Has it crossed your mind that the biblical God may be hiding something again in heaven as usual?
Don't you think there may be another Evil tree there, afterall He loves testing people?
Your thoughts...

Liveair: When Adam was created and put in the suposedly heavenly Eden, no one told him there would be an EVIL tree in this paradise.
When the Israelites were led out of Egypt they were not told they would FIGHT their way to Canaan.
The Israelites were told that the promised land was flowing with Milk and Honey. Today they are still looking for the Milk and Honey!

The new testament says "come unto me all ye who are heavily laden and i'll give you rest". And then later says "take up your cross and follow me"-no rest.

It also says "seek ye first the kingdom of God and all other things shall be added to you". Today christians are paying tithes and sowing seed for those things to be added.
Has it crossed your mind that the biblical God may be hiding something again in heaven as usual?
Don't you think there may be another Evil tree there, afterall He loves testing people?
Your thoughts...

Smile, unfortunately with this kind of thought u might never find out

PastorOluT:

Smile, unfortunately with this kind of thought u might never find out

Really?
Some people really never learn!

God has told us that there shall be no sorrow, pain death, tears etc in heaven and that it is FOREVER. His promises to us about heaven are eternal as he said it. What you are thinking is different.

Again, God will never allow anything that will rubbish his sacrifice for our redemption. If there would be such a thing then God wouldn't have needed to make this greatest sacrifice. Even Jesus wouldn't have accepted it. The cross is our strong hope.

alexleo: God has told us that there shall be no sorrow, pain death, tears etc in heaven and that it is FOREVER. His promises to us about heaven are eternal as he said it. What you are thinking is different

The Israelites were told that the Promised land was flowing with Milk and Honey. Have they found them?

Liveair:
The Israelites were told that the Promised land was flowing with Milk and Honey. Have they found them?

Friend, those people disobeyed God and that altered the plan. Three days journey turned to 40 years because of their disobedience. God always told them that if they obeyed him they enjoy and if they don't, they suffer. The cases you are seeing in the bible are a cases of those who are following God and learning his ways(with all the mistakes and correction).

The one of heaven is a case of those who have been redeemed and has followed God successfuly by his grace in their life time and now they are receiving their eternal reward(note the word eternal).

The two scenarios are not the same.

Let me still repeat this-

Again, God will never allow anything that will rubbish his sacrifice for our redemption. If there would be such a thing then God wouldn't have needed to make this greatest sacrifice. Even Jesus wouldn't have accepted it. The cross is our solid hope.

alexleo:

Friend, those people disobeyed God and that altered the plan. Three days journey turned to 40 years because of their disobedience. God always told them that if they obeyed him they enjoy and if they don't, they suffer. The cases you are seeing in the bible are a cases of those who are following God and learning his ways(with all the mistakes and correction).

The one of heaven is a case of those who have been redeemed and has followed God successfuly by his grace in their life time and now they are receiving their eternal reward(note the word eternal).

The two scenarios are not the same.

Let me still repeat this-

Again, God will never allow anything that will rubbish his sacrifice for our redemption. If there would be such a thing then God wouldn't have needed to make this greatest sacrifice. Even Jesus wouldn't have accepted it. The cross is our solid hope.

You seem not to get it! Where is the Milk and Honey?
When Abram was promised an heir and inheritance of the earth, he wasn't told he wouldn't even see his grand children. He didn't know he would even painfully have to cut his manhood.
No blessing or provision of God came without a condition and a pitfall. Heaven may not be any different.
Isn't it still humans that will be there? Why cant there be another forbidden tree to eat from?

Liveair:
Really?
Some people really never learn!

And ur point exactly, n did u get my point?

*Edited*

Note, just as Alexleo said. Heaven is for the redeemed (those that have been saved from the corruption in the world, so my point), so there is no way no way for surprises. Better still, the surprises would be better things even which our minds can not comprehend the goodies, no more struggle, pain or inndicisiveness 'cos the old form of things would have passed away.

NB This is the point that those that would be worthy of Heaven would be the only one to know, while those not would never find out whatsoever.

PastorOluT:

And ur point exactly, n did u get my point?

*Edited*

Note, just as Alexleo said. Heaven is for the redeemed (those that have been saved from the corruption in the world, so my point), so there is no way no way for surprises. Better still, the surprises would be better things even which our minds can not comprehend the goodies, no more struggle, pain or inndicisiveness 'cos the old form of things would have passed away.

NB This is the point that those that would be worthy of Heaven would be the only one to know, while those not would never find out whatsoever.

Anyone who has followed the stories of promises in the bible will see a trend of pitfalls and surprises.
Only someone who never learns from biblical antecedents will take the story of heaven seriously.

Now, when God created Eden, wasn't it said to be perfect? How come there was an Evil tree in a perfect place.
For your own good, be prepared for another round of disappointments.

Liveair:
Anyone who has followed the stories of promises in the bible will see a trend of pitfalls and surprises.
Only someone who never learns from biblical antecedents will take the story of heaven seriously.

Now, when God created Eden, wasn't it said to be perfect? How come there was an Evil tree in a perfect place.
For your own good, be prepared for another round of disappointments.

You are right bro, but if you are in a quiz competition, you don't win unless you pass the questions. When David was anointed to replace Saul, he likely did not know he will be fighting battles 13years after. This further tells you that those pitfalls you are scared of are the refining fire that brings out the gold in you. The quality of Gold is how much of dross left or taken out of it. Christianity is not butter and bread alone. Finally I will believe a God that promises me heaven than to believe a god that will give me this world and take heaven from me.

Liveair:
Anyone who has followed the stories of promises in the bible will see a trend of pitfalls and surprises.
Only someone who never learns from biblical antecedents will take the story of heaven seriously.

Now, when God created Eden, wasn't it said to be perfect? How come there was an Evil tree in a perfect place.
For your own good, be prepared for another round of disappointments.

Don't u see that not knowing the scriptures, I really don't know where u got the idea of God planting an evil tree in the garden? The bible only said God planted two trees in the garden, the tree of life n the tree of the knowledge of good n evil (mind u this true is not evil, it only posses the power of enlightenment, making one deferentiate between evil n good).

See, when Adam was created he was innocent, not knowing anything aside from God. God created two trees in the garden that has the enablement to enlighten him, one would do according to the spirit which God intended, while the other would also bt according to the flesh which is not His intention (reason He warned him not to eat from that tree). So what was done was like a test, God even made it easier for him by warning him against the tree of the knowledge of good n evil, while the tree of life God dint keep him from it 'cos he wanted him to eat that and live forever perfected, bt as it where he failed the test so the reason for all these that followed.

Time n space would not permit me, bt u can read my threads on the tree of life n the tree of the knowledge of good n evil.

PastorOluT:

Don't u see that not knowing the scriptures, I really don't know where u got the idea of God planting an evil tree in the garden? The bible only said God planted two trees in the garden, the tree of life n the tree of the knowledge of good n evil (mind u this true is not evil, it only posses the power of enlightenment, making one deferentiate between evil n good).

See, when Adam was created he was innocent, not knowing anything aside from God. God created two trees in the garden that has the enablement to enlighten him, one would do according to the spirit which God intended, while the other would also bt according to the flesh which is not His intention (reason He warned him not to eat from that tree). So what was done was like a test, God even made it easier for him by warning him against the tree of the knowledge of good n evil, while the tree of life God dint keep him from it 'cos he wanted him to eat that and live forever perfected, bt as it where he failed the test so the reason for all these that followed.

Time n space would not permit me, bt u can read my threads on the tree of life n the tree of the knowledge of good n evil.

I think you need to study the bible more.
Now, Gen 2:17 KJV says "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely DIE.
Its very clear that the tree causes DEATH. Is that good or Evil?
Saying the tree was not Evil is like saying that GIVING CIGARETTE TO SOMEONE ISN'T EVIL BUT SMOKING IT IS. Is it a souvenir?
I put it to you that you should prepare for another EVIL tree and some pitfalls there.

Liveair:
I think you need to study the bible more.
Now, Gen 2:17 KJV says "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely DIE.
Its very clear that the tree causes DEATH. Is that good or Evil?
Saying the tree was not Evil is like saying that GIVING CIGARETTE TO SOMEONE ISN'T EVIL BUT SMOKING IT IS. Is it a souvenir?
I put it to you that you should prepare for another EVIL tree and some pitfalls there.

Let me continue to oblige u for the time being. Now when He said if they eat from the tree they would surely die, what kind of death was He talking about? And why didn't they die when they ate the fruit?

Ur example isn't quite the same, there was no surprise whatsoever 'cos God earlier told them about the tree. Could u be surprised for what u know already?

RockMaxi:

You are right bro, but if you are in a quiz competition, you don't win unless you pass the questions. When David was anointed to replace Saul, he likely did not know he will be fighting battles 13years after. This further tells you that those pitfalls you are scared of are the refining fire that brings out the gold in you. The quality of Gold is how much of dross left or taken out of it. Christianity is not butter and bread alone. Finally I will believe a God that promises me heaven than to believe a god that will give me this world and take heaven from me.

Hmm, so in your heaven you should prepare for more "refining fire".
You will observe that the issue here is the Half Truths, Deceptive and Bogus Promises of Paradise in the bible. Heaven cannot be different.
Does it mean you believe in a God and another god?

PastorOluT:

Let me continue to oblige u for the time being. Now when He said if they eat from the tree they would surely die, what kind of death was He talking about? And why didn't they die when they ate the fruit?

Ur example isn't quite the same, there was no surprise whatsoever 'cos God earlier told them about the tree. Could u be surprised for u know already?

Am actually waiting for you to tell me that Death to Adam and Eve was a good thing.
Death could be physical or spiritual isn't it so biblically? Again i ask, is death good or evil?
Yes, its just an example. You have also been told that all you will do will be worshipping.

The surprise didn't pertain to Adam and Eve. Its to the Israelites and to you now.
As for surprises; Rev 2:7 and Rev 22 say there is a Tree of life of which they will eat and from whose leaves they would obtain healing. What do they need healing from in heaven? Are you surprised?

PastorOluT, RockMaxi, awaiting your responses.

Liveair:
Am actually waiting for you to tell me that Death to Adam and Eve was a good thing.
Death could be physical or spiritual isn't it so biblically? Again i ask, is death good or evil?
Yes, its just an example. You have also been told that all you will do will be worshipping.

The surprise didn't pertain to Adam and Eve. Its to the Israelites and to you now.
As for surprises; Rev 2:7 and Rev 22 say there is a Tree of life of which they will eat and from whose leaves they would obtain healing. What do they need healing from in heaven? Are you surprised?

U still don't get it do u? The death that was mentioned wasn't just death in the flesh (though that's a fruit of the main death), bt death in the spirit which is separation from God which is life. If only u can understand this then it will help, for ur info I don't reason as u tot that I would say the death was a good thing.

And as for the surprise, I am not surprised at all 'cos there will be fruit for healing in paradise. This doesn't mean that we will get sick n need healing bt that we will get better n better for all eternity as we partake of the fruit. Remember we are in an imperfect state right now, so it will only make sense that when we are transformed we will get better n better.

which bible are you reading that says there was an evil tree in the garden?

itstpia1: which bible are you reading that says there was an evil tree in the garden?

I don't understand d guy o, I have been trying to explain to Him that the tree of the knowledge of good n evil is just for enlightenment to be able to discern good n evil, right n wrong n not according to the way God intended which was the tree of life.

PastorOluT:

U still don't get it do u? The death that was mentioned wasn't just death in the flesh (though that's a fruit of the main death), bt death in the spirit which is separation from God which is life. If only u can understand this then it will help, for ur info I don't reason as u tot that I would say the death was a good thing.

And as for the surprise, I am not surprised at all 'cos there will be fruit for healing in paradise. This doesn't mean that we will get sick n need healing bt that we will get better n better for all eternity as we partake of the fruit. Remember we are in an imperfect state right now, so it will only make sense that when we are transformed we will get better n better.

If you cannot make someone see sense in an idea it means that that idea probable makes no sense.
Pls try and reason this;
So after your bible stated that you must be perfect just as your Lord is perfect, you still claim that you will get to heaven imperfect and will then eat of the tree and be perfect?
Now, after eating it for the first time you mean you still have to eat more to IMPROVE on the perfection? How can you improve on perfection?
Does this make sense al all?

itstpia1: which bible are you reading that says there was an evil tree in the garden?

Hmm, read the posts from the start so you can follow.

He is the Alpha and Omega,his ways can't be questioned.

Liveair:
Am actually waiting for you to tell me that Death to Adam and Eve was a good thing.
Death could be physical or spiritual isn't it so biblically? Again i ask, is death good or evil?
Yes, its just an example. You have also been told that all you will do will be worshipping.

The surprise didn't pertain to Adam and Eve. Its to the Israelites and to you now.
As for surprises; Rev 2:7 and Rev 22 say there is a Tree of life of which they will eat and from whose leaves they would obtain healing. What do they need healing from in heaven? Are you surprised?

In depth interpretation of the Bible especially that of the book of Revelation is never to be interpreted literally the way you are going about it.
The day I caught the interpretation of this verses you are about mixing up I became enlightened beyond what I will just narrate and throw at you on this public forum.

Most time that visions are relayed in the bible it is not to be taken as if reading Macbeth or Shylock Holmes series.. Do you at all understand the visions of Daniel? Such requires in depth analysis and it will surprise you that the healing mentioned was used as a result of interpretation to describe the experience that will come from the fruits.

Genesis 15:18-21
Yahweh speaking to Abraham
"I would give your seeds(Hebrews/Jews) the lands from the rivers of Egypt to the Great river of Euphrates, covering all the lands of the tribes of Canaan"

This land in modern geography is from the mountain Sinai to The external boarders of Syria

Pls people honestly answer...how much of this land belongs to the Jews?

RockMaxi:

In depth interpretation of the Bible especially that of the book of Revelation is never to be interpreted literally the way you are going about it.
The day I caught the interpretation of this verses you are about mixing up I became enlightened beyond what I will just narrate and throw at you on this public forum.

Most time that visions are relayed in the bible it is not to be taken as if reading Macbeth or Shylock Holmes series.. Do you at all understand the visions of Daniel? Such requires in depth analysis and it will surprise you that the healing mentioned was used as a result of interpretation to describe the experience that will come from the fruits.

You see the big problem with Christianity, when you fail to explain clearly or even understand a subject, because it is clearly self contradictory, you start running from pillar to post, then claim it is not literally intepreted. Heaven, Hell, Satan, Garden of Eden are all literally interpreted but the contradictory ones are not.

It would be great if you could explain it as you understand it, let us learn spiritually too.
Remember, if you can't explain something, you don't understand it.

Liveair:

You see the big problem with Christianity, when you fail to explain clearly or even understand a subject, because it is clearly self contradictory, you start running from pillar to post, then claim it is not literally intepreted. Heaven, Hell, Satan, Garden of Eden are all literally interpreted but the contradictory ones are not.

It would be great if you could explain it as you understand it, let us learn spiritually too.
Remember, if you can't explain something, you don't understand it.

Nobody is running from pillar to post to explain anything to you. You have a mindset that we are trying to x-ray with simple explanation of those texts you quoted.

Concerning the bolded you only made me laugh.

macof: Genesis 15:18-21
Yahweh speaking to Abraham
"I would give your seeds(Hebrews/Jews) the lands from the rivers of Egypt to the Great river of Euphrates, covering all the lands of the tribes of Canaan"

This land in modern geography is from the mountain Sinai to The external boarders of Syria

Pls people honestly answer...how much of this land belongs to the Jews?

Hold on a while, they'll soon start telling you its not literally understood.

RockMaxi:

Nobody is running from pillar to post to explain anything to you. You have a mindset that we are trying to x-ray with simple explanation of those texts you quoted.

Concerning the bolded you only made me laugh.

Your initial post at least made an attempt to answer, however, you are now failing to provide concrete arguements.
As for mindset, only one who refutes evidence on the platform of "it should not be taken literally" can be said to have a certain mindset.

Liveair:
You seem not to get it! Where is the Milk and Honey?

You seem not to get it, was it promised them that the milk and honey will flow forever as in the case of what we shall enjoy in heaven forever?

Liveair:

When Abram was promised an heir and inheritance of the earth, he wasn't told he wouldn't even see his grand children. He didn't know he would even painfully have to cut his manhood.

Was he also promised that he will see his grand children?

Liveair:
No blessing or provision of God came without a condition and a pitfall. Heaven may not be any different.
Isn't it still humans that will be there? Why cant there be another forbidden tree to eat from?

The world is a temporary abode for us and it is clearly stated in the bible so there is no blessings of God to any of us that is eternal. Again our journey in the world is still in our imperfect state so those conditions perfect us in our walk with him but in heaven we shall be perfected so no more condition. Even Jesus clearly stated it that if we should follow him we shall suffer for his sake. The only eternal promise given to us is the promise of eternal life in heaven. And that is where we are told that we will have NO PAIN, NO TEARS, NO SORROW, NO DEATH forever and ever. Dont you get it?

You are pointing out what God did not tell Abraham that he later met on the way, how about the numerous ones he promised him and many others in the bible that he fulfilled. How about the various miracles done in the bible? Bros go find better job abeg

____

alexleo: God has told us that there shall be no sorrow, pain death, tears etc in heaven and that it is FOREVER. His promises to us about heaven are eternal as he said it. What you are thinking is different.

Again, God will never allow anything that will rubbish his sacrifice for our redemption. If there would be such a thing then God wouldn't have needed to make this greatest sacrifice. Even Jesus wouldn't have accepted it. The cross is our strong hope.

What I see here is nothing but hopeful expectations.

Kay17:
What I see here is nothing but hopeful expectations.

Its not just a hopeful expectation rather a very sure thing. In my walk with God over the years I ve seen his word fulfill in my life, in my family, in my church and in the world at large daily. I have no double mind towards his words concerning heaven. Heaven is just the perfect place as God's word said and we are yearning to be raptured. May God help us. Amen. Join us in this heavenly journey.