MizMyColi:

Ymodulus, your atheisticsm is rubbing off on me.
Shey you see what you've caused now

BossTtdiamonds:

Got the Logic..Only chose to make a Joke out of it.. as I truly love playing FIFA over Pro Literally

But you was trying to be smart as always... Burn some steam off man..

Ymodulus:

How??

BossTtdiamonds:

Why'd you stop/start at 12.. Read from 1 till the end.. It'll be
clearer.. the Chapter Justifies itself..
What I am saying in essence is that: The answer to your
Question is in the chapter from which you have culled this
verse..

Xcapist:

@boldface, that's the spirit bro! I too thought it was a quite funny pun. I don't know why we all have to bare our fangs and raise our hackles whenever we meet... Can we be anything but teeth and claws in our interactions. Your a Christian, right? The bible says in 2 Timothy 2:24-25 (NIV)

24 And the Lord's servant must not quarrel ; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful .25 Those who oppose him he must
gently instruct , in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,

Or doesn't "everyone" There include atheists/agnostics?

BodyKiss:

I don't have to read the whole chapter to prove my point, since when has that been the criteria? The whole point of the argument is that 'God' is merciful, yet, he didn't forgive Adam for eating apple. According to the bible, because of that, death was brought upon mankind. I don't get it.

Xcapist:

Ahm, hey, there's a new thing in town now - it's called reading in between the lines, it's pretty cool and I think you should try it before you start dashing titles to people. Because there is nothing as hilarious as hearing my awesome fence sitting sister being called Mama Atheists *chuckling* Anyho MizMyColi is a son of God (- blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God)

BossTtdiamonds:

God punished them for their sins.. He didn't cast them into the lake of fire...



@ the bolded.. Do I look like an Hero to you

Sorry but I can't spoon feed you.. You want Evidence, you'd have to go get it yourself.. Mine was merely a guide..

Talk 'bout "Eating your cake and having it"

abdulwastecx:

why will God plant an apple that he doesn't want his loyal servant to eeat in the first place?

BossTtdiamonds:

A Test of faith...

Why will your mum put meat in the pot and would expect you not to go behind her back to eat it.. She trust you innit...

BossTtdiamonds:

A Test of faith...

Why will your mum put meat in the pot and would expect you not to go behind her back to eat it.. She trust you innit...

kolomax: I don't like commenting on this kind of things....but today I have to do So because so many of you are confused....so here is an article for y all
LOGICAL CONCEPT OF GOD


My first question to the atheist will be: "What is the definition of God?" For a person to say there is no God, he should know what is the meaning of God. If I hold a book and say that ‘this is a pen’, for the opposite person to say, ‘it is not a pen’, he should know what is the definition of a pen, even if he does not know nor is able to recognise or identify the object I am holding in my hand. For him to say this is not a pen, he should at least know what a pen means. Similarly for an atheist to say ‘there is no God’, he should at least know the concept of God. His concept of God would be derived from the surroundings in which he lives. The god that a large number of people worship has got human qualities - therefore he does not believe in such a god. Similarly a Muslim too does not and should not believe in such false gods.

If a non-Muslim believes that Islam is a merciless religion with something to do with terrorism; a religion which does not give rights to women; a religion which contradicts science; in his limited sense that non-Muslim is correct to reject such Islam. The problem is he has a wrong picture of Islam. Even I reject such a false picture of Islam, but at the same time, it becomes my duty as a Muslim to present the correct picture of Islam to that non-Muslim i.e. Islam is a merciful religion, it gives equal rights to the women, it is not incompatible with logic, reason and science; if I present the correct facts about Islam, that non-Muslim may Inshallah accept Islam.

Similarly the atheist rejects the false gods and the duty of every Muslim is to present the correct concept of God which he shall Insha Allah not refuse.

(You may refer to my article, ‘Concept of God in Islam’, for more details)


QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE


The methods of proving the existence of God with usage of the material provided in the ‘Concept of God in Islam’ to an atheist may satisfy some but not all.

Many atheists demand a scientific proof for the existence of God. I agree that today is the age of science and technology. Let us use scientific knowledge to kill two birds with one stone, i.e. to prove the existence of God and simultaneously prove that the Qur’an is a revelation of God.

If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to an atheist or any person and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, he will reply, ‘the creator of that object.’ Some may say ‘the producer’ while others may say ‘the manufacturer.’ What ever answer the person gives, keep it in your mind, the answer will always be either the creator, the producer, the manufacturer or some what of the same meaning, i.e. the person who has made it or created it. Don’t grapple with words, whatever answer he gives, the meaning will be same, therefore accept it.

SCIENTIFIC FACTS MENTIONED IN THE QUR’AN: for details on this subject please refer to my book, ‘THE QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE – COMPATIBLE OR INCOMPATIBLE?


THEORY OF PROBABILITY


In mathematics there is a theory known as ‘Theory of Probability’. If you have two options, out of which one is right, and one is wrong, the chances that you will chose the right one is half, i.e. one out of the two will be correct. You have 50% chances of being correct. Similarly if you toss a coin the chances that your guess will be correct is 50% (1 out of 2) i.e. 1/2. If you toss a coin the second time, the chances that you will be correct in the second toss is again 50% i.e. half. But the chances that you will be correct in both the tosses is half multiplied by half (1/2 x 1/2) which is equal to 1/4 i.e. 50% of 50% which is equal to 25%. If you toss a coin the third time, chances that you will be correct all three times is (1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2) that is 1/8 or 50% of 50% of 50% that is 12½%.

A dice has got six sides. If you throw a dice and guess any number between 1 to 6, the chances that your guess will be correct is 1/6. If you throw the dice the second time, the chances that your guess will be correct in both the throws is (1/6 x 1/6) which is equal to 1/36. If you throw the dice the third time, the chances that all your three guesses are correct is (1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6) is equal to 1/216 that is less than 0.5 %.

Let us apply this theory of probability to the Qur’an, and assume that a person has guessed all the information that is mentioned in the Qur’an which was unknown at that time. Let us discuss the probability of all the guesses being simultaneously correct.

At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur’an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.

The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.

Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur’an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about .0017%.

 

The Qur’an speaks about hundreds of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation. Only in three options the result is .0017%. I leave it upto you, to work out the probability if all the hundreds of the unknown facts were guesses, the chances of all of them being correct guesses simultaneously and there being not a single wrong guess. It is beyond human capacity to make all correct guesses without a single mistake, which itself is sufficient to prove to a logical person that the origin of the Qur’an is Divine.


CREATOR IS THE AUTHOR OF THE QUR’AN


The only logical answer to the question as to who could have mentioned all these scientific facts 1400 years ago before they were discovered, is exactly the same answer initially given by the atheist or any person, to the question who will be the first person who will be able to tell the mechanism of the unknown object. It is the ‘CREATOR’, the producer, the Manufacturer of the whole universe and its contents. In the English language He is ‘God’, or more appropriate in the Arabic language, ‘ALLAH’.


QUR’AN IS A BOOK OF SIGNS AND NOT SCIENCE


Let me remind you that the Qur’an is not a book of Science, ‘S-C-I-E-N-C-E’ but a book of Signs ‘S-I-G-N-S’ i.e. a book of ayaats. The Qur’an contains more than 6,000 ayaats, i.e. ‘signs’, out of which more than a thousand speak about Science. I am not trying to prove that the Qur’an is the word of God using scientific knowledge as a yard stick because any yardstick is supposed to be more superior than what is being checked or verified. For us Muslims the Qur’an is the Furqan i.e. criteria to judge right from wrong and the ultimate yardstick which is more superior to scientific knowledge.

But for an educated man who is an atheist, scientific knowledge is the ultimate test which he believes in. We do know that science many a times takes ‘U’ turns, therefore I have restricted the examples only to scientific facts which have sufficient proof and evidence and not scientific theories based on assumptions. Using the ultimate yardstick of the atheist, I am trying to prove to him that the Qur’an is the word of God and it contains the scientific knowledge which is his yardstick which was discovered recently, while the Qur’an was revealed 1400 year ago. At the end of the discussion, we both come to the same conclusion that God though superior to science, is not incompatible with it.


SCIENCE IS ELIMINATING MODELS OF GOD BUT NOT GOD


Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God. If you translate this into Arabic, it is La illaha illal la, There is no god, (god with a small ‘g’ that is fake god) but God (with a capital ‘G’).

Surah Fussilat:

"Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"

[Al-Quran 41:53]

BossTtdiamonds:

A Test of faith...

Why will your mum put meat in the pot and would expect you not to go behind her back to eat it.. She trust you innit...

BodyKiss:

This is no brainer. Hypothetically speaking, should my dad rise from dead, I will believe whatever he says over that of any man of 'God'. So, this logic is highly flawed.

Xcapist:

My brother this is also one of my problems oo. It seem like god framed humanity at the very beginning. A kind of set up for blackmail. Of all the bondless expanse of our universe (and other universes if there are) he chose to exile the talking serpent, lucifer (the very one that was giving him problem in his own heaven),
to the earth he has just newly created, good and perfect. That's number one. Two. he planted temptation right in the centre of the garden, ko? Three. He gave man freewill to plug and eat, in his foreknowledge, knowing fully well that we'll fail. Because you can't tell me that man's failure took God by surprise, he wasn't like "oh, no! I didn't see that coming!!" he knew we'll plug and eat even before he created us.

What will you feel about a lecturer that gives you a shotgun quiz just to fail you?

Back to your analogy, what mother would frame her child up with meat so that when (not IF) he fails she can flogged the hell out of him (pun not intended)? In my opinion, a useless, sadistic mother. Or a stepmother lols

MizMyColi:

[font=Georgia][/font]

Emmalot121: Would apatheist(no one has even attempted my simple questions) help you when you burn in lake of fire, where proud people like you wail and cry, where you gnash your teeth in fury, praying for another chance, another chance which will never come .All what Jesus came into the world to say is love me, have 'faith' in me, if you love me, you will keep my commandments and Holy Spirit will guide you and you will surely have a place in my father's house.Just be sober and accept him,that is all he wants.Blessed are ye that weep now:for ye shall laugh. Luke 6 vs 21
...................Jesus wept. John 11 vs 35.

Sorry Bro, that god you expect me to believe in is my devil

#EndOfAkuko

Emmalot121: You are a fööl , if your father is pronounced dead, and in five minutes time,be he wakes up to tell you that he was in heaven, my 'all' intelligent friend will tell him that: 'Father, you were in a state of deep unconsciousness, the happenings around you made you feel as if you were already dead,you were afraid, then you began to "act'' what those who worship a myth brainwashed you with.Just when you were through with your state of 'fantasy,' you woke up, as it was still medically possible to have a 'hanged' life and wake up again.' In fact there are over 10Billion ways to confuse yourself and still remain in your state of self delusion...............And he said unto him,If they hear not Moses and the prophets,neither will they be persuaded,though one rose from the dead.

“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let
them listen to them.’

“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the
dead goes to them, they will repent.’

“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the
Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises
from the dead.’”

Xcapist:

@boldface, that's the spirit bro! I too thought it was a quite funny pun. I don't know why we all have to bare our fangs and raise our hackles whenever we meet... Can we be anything but teeth and claws in our interactions. Your a Christian, right? The bible says in 2 Timothy 2:24-25 (NIV)

24 And the Lord's servant must not quarrel ; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful .25 Those who oppose him he must
gently instruct , in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,

Or doesn't "everyone" There include atheists/agnostics?

BodyKiss:

First, I should let you stupíd low life know that my dad has been dead for over 8 years. So, that post was made in assumption to that. What made you an even classic fóol, is that your history book made it clear that lazarus died before the rich man, so no body was talking about a day dead here, talkless of five minutes.




It doesn't take a genius to see the flaw in this ^^ logic, just like most part of the history book.

logicboy01:


<<<<<
Islamic cave is to the left

There, you can make silly arguments and knack heads on the ground with Osama Vedaxcool and Ayatollah Maclatunji



(seriously did you really think the nonsense epistle you put up there makes sense?)

MizMyColi:

Sorry Bro, that god you expect me to believe in is my devil

#EndOfAkuko

Emmalot121: You tickle me, it was the rich man that was asking to come to life.What if your father has been dead for 1000 years, we all know I was assuming.History book! That means you acknowledge that those events took place (I don't care if you acknowledge.) Tell me if doctor tells you that you will be dead in 5minutes, won't you panic? .'My people slumber because of lack of KNOWLEDGE.'

Luke 16: 27-28

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

Emmalot121: You are one of those Christ was talking about when he said ......................If the world hate you, ye know that it HATED ME before it hated you.
PLS IF I MAY ASK WITH DUE RESPECT,WHY HATEST THOU HIM.

Why I hate the Devil?

C'mon Dude!
Who Doesn't?!

Even Atheists Do
Oops, I'm one of them now, thanks to you

Yipppeeee!!!!

MizMyColi:


Why I hate the Devil?

C'mon Dude!
Who Doesn't?!

Even Atheists Do
Oops, I'm one of them now, thanks to you

Yipppeeee!!!!

Emmalot121: Why didn't you include verse 26.....and that they may recover themselves out of snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. Stop using NIV, KJV is the only one you can trust these days.

Emmalot121: Beautiful rubbish!!!

Xcapist:

My brother this is also one of my problems oo. It seem like god God framed humanity at the very beginning.
This assumption made by your person is false. God never framed humanity, he put humanity to test..

A kind of set up for blackmail. Of all the bondless expanse of our universe (and other universes if there are) he chose to exile the talking serpent, lucifer (the very one that was giving him problem in his own heaven), to the earth he has just newly created, good and perfect. That's number one.

It would be much more accurate to say "God cast Satan out of heaven" rather than "Exile to the Earth"
Here are Verses of the Bible that describes the event. Isaiah 14:15; Ezekiel 28:16-17.
Another thing is God cast him out, but still allowed him access to heaven; the book of Job identifies this event Job 1:6-7
“One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, ’Where have you come from?’ Satan answered the LORD, ‘From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it’”.
Apparently at that time, Satan was still moving freely between heaven and earth, speaking to God directly and answering for his activities.

So you see God still did not deny Lucifer an audience despite the fact that Lucifer rebelled against God.. Because Lucifer was his creation

Two. he planted temptation right in the centre of the garden, ko?

There we're two trees actually, the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.. The question you should be asking is why Man did not eat of the tree of life, since that would have given Man eternal life..

Three. He gave man freewill to plug and eat, in his foreknowledge, knowing fully well that we'll fail. Because you can't tell me that man's failure took God by surprise, he wasn't like "oh, no! I didn't see that coming!!" he knew we'll plug and eat even before he created us.

God gave us free will because He loves us, and because He wants to be loved in return. Our love for Him wouldn't be real love if it were forced. We'd be little better than robots, programmed to behave a certain way.
Just imagine the three as the choice to obey or disobey God. Man would not have had the choice to obey or disobey God, and without choice, there can be no real obedience, or true love, only a mindless man with no will of his own.

So he did not frame us.. he wanted us to be more like him.
Read Genesis 3:22-24


What will you feel about a lecturer that gives you a shotgun quiz just to fail you?

I'll feel he's preparing me for the worst case scenario.. I wrote an exam once.. Practical exams while back in school.. I saw the Lab technologist record 91 as my score and when the result came out.. 00F was what I was given... This my friend is a real life example of what you posted above...

Back to your analogy, what mother would frame her child up with meat so that when (not IF) he fails she can flogged the hell out of him (pun not intended)? In my opinion, a useless, sadistic mother. Or a stepmother lols

She did not frame him.. She wanted to see if he'd do what is right irrespective of the environment..
Under normal circumstances,in her presence, the child would not steal from her pot..
So she could test to see if the child would remain morally upright in her absence..

abdulwastecx:

comparing God with my mother is ridiculous. .. remember God is all knowing and all wise, my mother on the other hand may be gullible because she ia not all knowing.

logicboy01:
Abeg, stop this "innit".....you are not some local south-london hoodlum (*cough* sagamite)

kolomax: better not to respond to a kid like you....

BossTtdiamonds: Xcapist You are guilty of blackmailing me.. I already told you I am no hero, yet you planned a coup to make me answer your question.. There is God oh!..


The above is my opinion.. You might have a different view..and that's entirely up to you..
I still remain "Not a/an Hero"..