Goshen360:


When I return, you can't discuss scripture by yourself.

OLAADEGBU:


Just answer the question at hand since you are able to explain scripture by yourself without any help whatsoever

Goshen360:


I will engage in this discussion on two grounds if you will agree to the terms stated below:

1. If you will not go to your regular website to copy and paste answers here.

2. We will get to the root of words and contextual usage or meaning as we explain scriptures.

3. You will answer my questions without evasion by style and support your answers with scripture. ...explaining such scriptures in context, if possible with word meanings.

If you agree to these, let me know and I'll be on watch out for your response and come back to the discussion.

Goshen360:


We can merge this thread and the other one together and discuss since they're both related. Same rules apply if you want us discuss and you agree to the terms as stated on the other thread.

OLAADEGBU:


Since when has discussing topics become a legal contract? It's either you make your contribution if you have any or stay in your newly sniper mode status.

Goshen360:


Coward. ...

You can do better than this. Okay. I'll take you up on both threads.

OLAADEGBU:

It's been almost a month (first page) since you promised to be back. Back to do what, answer the questions or to give lame excuses why you wouldn't or couldn't answer the questions?

Goshen360:
My answer:

The NT, which holds the Christian doctrines does consider many acts as sexual immorality of which pre marital sex is never mentioned and that's what I believe.



Again, if you have one single scripture that mentioned premarital sex as fornication, please bring it up now. Else, know that God is bigger than your man made tradition.

"But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband" (1 Corinthians 7:2).

"Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge" (Hebrews 13:4).

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor coveteous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

OLAADEGBU:


Can you define what you mean by premarital sex?







With the verses above, it is clear that any other type of sex outside of marriage is wrong. All premarital, extramarital, homosexual, incestuous, bestiality or any other kind of being sexually immoral will be judged by God.

Goshen360:


As always as you do.....reading INTO THE TEXT. Follow the context please.

OLAADEGBU:


Answer the question. What is premarital sex?

Goshen360:


You keep asking same question but on the other hand, quoting scriptures that doesn't mean or say they are premarital sex. I'm more interested in context of those scriptures than your question, does those scriptures say or called or termed fornication as premarital sex? That's what I'm interested in talking and I will get into the contextual meaning of those verses you quoted later.

Numismatic:



Premarital sex is it not Sexual? So you need the bible to say premarital sex before you agree that Premarital sex is sexual immorality..na wah, Sexual immorality deals with ALL SEXUAL SINS OR SINS THAT ARE SEXUAL IN NATURE.the scripture is clear about this why the debate?

Goshen360:


I don't know where you are coming from but let's discuss scriptures, not traditions of men of what you've been taught and you never questioned anything. We've discussed this subject in the past but Ola is just bringing it up again.

Please, produce scriptures that says premarital sex is fornication. Or we look at scriptures concerning fornication and see if they were referring to premarital sex.

When I argue this topic, people with sin conscious mind concludes, I'm endorsing immoral living but what I'm doing is, proving all things we're taught true or traditions.

Goshen360:


You keep asking same question but on the other hand, quoting scriptures that doesn't mean or say they are premarital sex. I'm more interested in context of those scriptures than your question, does those scriptures say or called or termed fornication as premarital sex? That's what I'm interested in talking and I will get into the contextual meaning of those verses you quoted later.

Goshen360:


I don't know where you are coming from but let's discuss scriptures, not traditions of men of what you've been taught and you never questioned anything. We've discussed this subject in the past but Ola is just bringing it up again.

Please, produce scriptures that says premarital sex is fornication. Or we look at scriptures concerning fornication and see if they were referring to premarital sex.

When I argue this topic, people with sin conscious mind concludes, I'm endorsing immoral living but what I'm doing is, proving all things we're taught true or traditions.

OLAADEGBU:


I keep asking the same question because have not answered any. The title of this thread is "What is considered sexually immoral?" You keep going round in circles asserting that "premarital sex is not fornication." Define what you mean by premarital sex if you believe it is not considered to be sexually immoral.

Numismatic:

Very funny, You dont know where am coming from..what were you thought? I asked you a simple question, Is Premarital S.ex not immoral? What then does your bible say? try and define fornication, both the english and greek definition..and please enough of this online Spiritual muscle flexing..You dont know where am coming from indeed..

OLAADEGBU:


Can you define what you mean by premarital sex?

Goshen360:

Okay. Let's get into it.
Premarital sex. When I have someone I love, committed to and want to marry or have planned to marry after a considerable time of courtship or getting to know each other compatibility, if we have sex and keep to each other, that's not what the bible called fornication. Religion called it fornication but the bible doesn't call it fornication.

What does the bible called fornication?
Many ACTS such as sex OUT SIDE AN ALREADY EXISTING MARRIAGE, is fornication, sex with animals is fornication, man to man or woman to woman, incent, whor.ing, prostitut.ion, idolatry etc are ACTS considered fornication but no where was premarital sex with someone I want to marry considered fornication.

Again, if ANYONE of you have text saying premarital sex ACT is fornication, bring it on. BUT I WILL STILL ADDRESS SCRIPTURES OLAADEGBU quoted IN CONTEXT SO WE CAN BE CLEAR ON THE DISCUSSION.

Goshen360:




Okay. Let's get into it.

Premarital sex. When I have someone I love, committed to and want to marry or have planned to marry after a considerable time of courtship or getting to know each other compatibility, if we have sex and keep to each other, that's not what the bible called fornication. Religion called it fornication but the bible doesn't call it fornication.

What does the bible called fornication?

Many ACTS such as sex OUT SIDE AN ALREADY EXISTING MARRIAGE, is fornication, sex with animals is fornication, man to man or woman to woman, incent, whor.ing, prostitut.ion, idolatry etc are ACTS considered fornication but no where was premarital sex with someone I want to marry considered fornication.

Again, if ANYONE of you have text saying premarital sex ACT is fornication, bring it on. BUT I WILL STILL ADDRESS SCRIPTURES OLAADEGBU quoted IN CONTEXT SO WE CAN BE CLEAR ON THE DISCUSSION.

Numismatic:
wow..this is really an eye opener into your person, so you can comfortably have se.x with someone you plan to marry and who you love without and to you that is not pre marital..pre marital means what? Before marriage right? You are still committed, what if you don't marry eventually? And that you are commited to that person does it mean God already sees or approves of your relationship?And which sexual relation did the bible concur except se.x between married couples? May God have mercy on you for truly you are in error and even Peter when he was in error was Opposed to his face by Paul.. You never quoted any bible passage to prove your point all you said were your own understandings...You think you can explain away your living in sin with your girl friend or a person you intend to marry? Having head knowledge of the bible will never take you to heaven but the right application..All you do here is raise controversies but I ask, how many people in nairaland have been born again by you? Talking about tithe, Abram gave his tithe to The king of Salem without the law, which means it wasn't obligatory, but can you explain why it had to be melchizedek? A priest of the most high who was a similtude of Jesus? Was that an isolated incident? As much as I don't believe in obligatory tithe,but you that claims to know all should encourage believers who feel the have to pay their tithe to do so, but not mandatory or in fulfilment of the law but as an act of giving unto the lord..in the last days bible says that many shall give in to seducing spirits..remove pride from your heart mr goshen, and repent..

Goshen360:


All I see above is emotions!!! If there's anything I said unscriptural, I have made reference(s) to the other thread, feel free to discuss SCRIPTURES.....in context, not emotions. I'm not moved by that.

2. My works by God's grace follow me and not you to count my rewards. I don't need you to validate people who have come to Christ by the word I teach. You think it's up to me to make people come to Christ? We only speak\teach the word, it is the Spirit that convict the world of sin.

3. This is not a tithe thread. I'm sick and tired of that even though I'm not giving up combating the falsehood of tithe fraud.

4. Again, if there's any scripture talking about the sin of fornication....let's look at it in context, not following religion.

I'm going to sleep now. I will be back later!!!

Bidam:
Simple, we are in love is a wordly use that leads to fornication and adultery. Bible said we should flee it.( 1 cor 6:18) our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, we are BOUGHT at a PRICE, so has Christians we are first and foremost married to Jesus, we should honour God first with our own bodies before any other thing.

The rate and which sex is glamourise and seen as normal these days is frightening..Even some teachers on this forum had advocated some scriptural connotation claiming premarital sex is not a sin.

Paul had made it clear that it is GOOD for a man NOT to marry( 1 cor 7:2). But that doesnt mean folks shouldnt marry. You have to discern by the Spirit what God means.. I know many people marry for the PRESSURE of sex and that is what paul is preaching against here. If you can't control your body by the Spirit of God so that you can TANK up scriptures in your heart and wait for God's right timing for marriage, which is better. Then seek to stay single and WAIT UPON THE LORD. Marriage is ordained and instituted by God.

So many has misinterpreted the 1 cor7 verses like the catholics who said rev fathers should NOT marry and many pentecostals who insist young people should rush into marriage to avoid fornications.

It is far better to wait upon the Lord concerning marriage than to marry the wrong person for flimsy reason of sexual immorality and end up in trouble. Most cases of divorce is as a result of wrong marriages..Good morning sir.

asuustrike1:

Paul had made it clear that it is GOOD for a
man NOT to marry( 1 cor 7:2). isn't correct apostle Paul said "but since there's so much immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman Her own husband. so if you're burning in desire, marry
secondly the Catholic church are right on rev fr and sis. read Matthew 19:11-12.

Goshen360:


Okay. Let's get into it.

Premarital sex. When I have someone I love, committed to and want to marry or have planned to marry after a considerable time of courtship or getting to know each other compatibility, if we have sex and keep to each other, that's not what the bible called fornication. Religion called it fornication but the bible doesn't call it fornication.

Goshen360:


What does the bible called fornication?

Many ACTS such as sex OUT SIDE AN ALREADY EXISTING MARRIAGE, is fornication, sex with animals is fornication, man to man or woman to woman, incent, whor.ing, prostitut.ion, idolatry etc are ACTS considered fornication but no where was premarital sex with someone I want to marry considered fornication.

Goshen360:


Again, if ANYONE of you have text saying premarital sex ACT is fornication, bring it on. BUT I WILL STILL ADDRESS SCRIPTURES OLAADEGBU quoted IN CONTEXT SO WE CAN BE CLEAR ON THE DISCUSSION.

Goshen360:


Also, I have talked a lot on the other thread similar to this: https://www.nairaland.com/1958523/what-does-bible-say-sex

Now, let's discuss the verses you quoted:

1. 1 Corinthians 7:2

The above I discussed here: https://www.nairaland.com/1958523/what-does-bible-say-sex

2. Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge" (Hebrews 13:4).

Think about it a second and read again. Someone who is NOT married can be a WHO.RE likewise someone who IS married can be a who.re. Same goes for adultery as stated by Christ. One can be single and commit adultery......

King James Bible
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

So we understand adultery is not just what people says it is but marrying someone who wasn't put away for the right cause. Alright!

This verse, Hebrews 13:4 is addressing Who.res and adulterers AS IT RELATES TO THOSE IN MARRIAGE......that is, those going outside their EXISTING MARRIAGE to sleep around....these are who.resmongers. They defile their marriage bed. Hence, the mention of MARRIAGE IS HONOURABLE!!! Scripture is clear!!! It didn't say COURTSHIP is honourable even though it's foundation towards marriage, it says MARRIAGE. Ask yourself, what is MARRIAGE? Is it the same as courtship?

3. "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor coveteous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

I stand by the this verse as inspired by the Holy Spirit but let's stop reading into the text. I believe SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD as related to the mentioned acts BUT what is fornication? We have been using scriptures to expound on that.....having illicit sex OUTSIDE OF ONE'S MARRIAGE AFTER ONE IS MARRIED....is part of what fornication is and who is\are a fornicator(s) that this verse talked about?

We can't just read into the text and say this is what it means or that's what it means. We have Greek and Hebrew meaning from which our English translation came from and that's what tells us the original meanings not we reading into the text. Now, who is a fornicator?

First, I opned the verse here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Co&c=6&t=KJV&ss=1#s=1068009 with the Greek coding #s.

The Greek word is pornos and it means:

a man who prostit.utes his body to another's lust for hire

a male prosti.tute

a man who indulges in unlawful sex.ual inter.course, a fornicator

From the Greek Lexicon here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G4205&t=KJV

AND

what is fornication?

It is the Greek word porneia and it means:

illicit sex.ual inter.course

adultery, fornication, homo.sexu.ality, les.bianism, inter.course with animals etc.

sex.ual inter.course with close relatives; Lev. 18

sex.ual inter.course with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

metaph. the worship of idols

of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

So, we see the ACTS contained in the sin of fornication. These are what it says and we should stay with the above mentioned not expanding them to what they don't mean. All through scriptures AS FORNICATION IS USED IN CONTEXT, one of the above ACTS are what you will see OCCURING AS IN THE CASE OF CORINTHIAN CHURCH or other places fornication was used. Religion had lied to us long enough and we're breaking away from religion unto the truth of the glorious gospel of Christ.

a man who indulges in unlawful sex.ual inter.course, a fornicator

From the Greek Lexicon here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G4205&t=KJV

Numismatic:


wow..this is really an eye opener into your person, so you can comfortably have se.x with someone you plan to marry and who you love without and to you that is not pre marital..pre marital means what? Before marriage right? You are still committed, what if you don't marry eventually? And that you are commited to that person does it mean God already sees or approves of your relationship?And which sexual relation did the bible concur except se.x between married couples? May God have mercy on you for truly you are in error and even Peter when he was in error was Opposed to his face by Paul.. You never quoted any bible passage to prove your point all you said were your own understandings...You think you can explain away your living in sin with your girl friend or a person you intend to marry? Having head knowledge of the bible will never take you to heaven but the right application..All you do here is raise controversies but I ask, how many people in nairaland have been born again by you? Talking about tithe, Abram gave his tithe to The king of Salem without the law, which means it wasn't obligatory, but can you explain why it had to be melchizedek? A priest of the most high who was a similtude of Jesus? Was that an isolated incident? As much as I don't believe in obligatory tithe,but you that claims to know all should encourage believers who feel the have to pay their tithe to do so, but not mandatory or in fulfilment of the law but as an act of giving unto the lord..in the last days bible says that many shall give in to seducing spirits..remove pride from your heart mr goshen, and repent..

Numismatic:


Okay, continue spreading your nicolatian doctrine, but what i know is that judgement has been set..show me any place in the bible that okays sex between people that are in Lust and are commited to each other? I cor 7 vs 8-9, paul said if u cannot control themselves or their sexual urge should marry instead of burning with sexual lust.therefore marriage is the only institution that God recoganises, bible says marriage is Honorable, the world says ,oh,we are love, we want to marry, so its no sin, and u a supposed christain says same..because the bible didnt say sex between two single people is wrong, thus its right..go ahead to use scripture to justify ur sins..did bible name masturbation as sin? What about substance abuse? So any sin not mentioned in the bible is no Sin! And please take ur time to explain what i said about Abram giving tithe to The king of Salem..I can have Sex with any lady i want and say Oh, we are in love and committed to each other, then unto the next one, thereby i can do that with as many people as i want..what great logic..

http://christiananswers.net/dictionary/fornication.html

Daily Manna
Monday, August 03, 2015

Jesus' Teaching On Adultery

TEXT: MATTHEW 5:27-32

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matthew 5:28).

Latimer was raised to the bishopric of Worcester in the reign of Henry VIII. It was the custom of those days for each of the bishops to make presents to the king on New Year’s Day. Latimer went with the rest of his brethren to make the usual offering; but, instead of a purse of gold, he presented the king with a New Testament in which was a leaf doubled down to this passage, “Whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.”

Christ’s Sermon on the Mount is one of the most well-known passages in the entire Bible. Many of its expressions are commonly used in everyday speech, often without people being aware of their biblical origins. Most people do not have trouble understanding the Sermon on the Mount. This is because most of it is relatively straightforward, even for unbelievers, who may admire the general principles laid down therein, including love, non-retaliation, peace-making, kindness, and the Golden Rule. However, many people do find this passage on adultery and prohibition of divorce for whatever reasons extremely difficult because they do not think they can live-up to the standard that Jesus set.

Jesus said that adultery originates in the heart and is completed by acting upon that desire. Jesus did not say the Old Testament law against adultery was superseded, outdated, inapplicable or impossible to keep today. In fact, a few verses earlier, He stressed that He did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfil it. Therefore, with a graphic metaphor, Jesus illustrated exactly how His listeners were to obey God in this area.

Sin is deadly, and believers should remove themselves from any situation where they might be tempted. If there is anything in your life that causes you to lust, or tempts you to consider indulging in any extra-marital activity, remove it from your life with a grim determination.

BIBLE IN ONE YEAR: JOHN 6 - 7

Higher Everyday for Youths - Link: http://highereveryday.dclmhq.org/

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY: "Escape sin rather than excuse it"

See more HERE: