I was puzzled! When a friend ask me if at the forth coming NSE world engineering council in Abuja 2014. Engineers should enforce/propose a minimum of "master degree (MSc) in Engineering" as minimum requirement before becoming a COREN member due to incessant collapse of building in the country.
Infact, I can't give him an answer as I am still trying to figure it out. My fellow engineer what is your take on this? Is this a laudable proposal?

Who ever suggested minimum of MSc. For COREN doesn't know anything about Engineering or he doesnt have working experience. It's purely quality control and assurance problem. Standards have been compromised which has nothing to do level of degree. A lot of PHD students have not worked on the field before. Some Project owners don't want to pay for quality service. A building technologist will be doing the work of a civil engineer and architect at the same time. Project owners should stop engaging quacks.

Naturallyme:
Who ever suggested minimum of MSc. For COREN doesn't know anything about Engineering or he doesnt have working experience. It's purely quality control and assurance problem. Standards have been compromised which has nothing to do level of degree. A lot of PHD students have not worked on the field before. Some Project owners don't want to pay for quality service. A building technologist will be doing the work of a civil engineer and architect at the same time. Project owners should stop engaging quacks.

so u mean a Trained Building Technologists who have solid background training in civil engineering, architectural courses a quack, who also studied for five years just like u,

You sounded like a Polytechnic Graduate. I get surprised when a poly graduate says he studied Civil Engineering. I will ask " is it civil engineering or civil engineering technology". its HND in Civil Engineering Technology not Civil Engineering. Technology is different from Engineering ( Don't get it twisted). A building technologist can never do the work of a civil engineer, he can only by experience act on their behalf ( Maybe due to years of experience) . A technologist doesn't design or perform engineering analysis. if they do, the structure will fail or collapse or project delivered by compromising standards. They are meant to apply proven or engineers approved processes to build or create or to follow instructions of engineers.

Any building technologist that performs the work of a civil engineer should be arrested and charged for attempted murder. its unsafe. A building technologist can be upgraded to a civil engineer when he/she has passed through the necessary training. tested and trusted.

Naturallyme:
You sounded like a Polytechnic Graduate. I get surprised when a poly graduate says he studied Civil Engineering. I will ask " is it civil engineering or civil engineering technology". its HND in Civil Engineering Technology not Civil Engineering. Technology is different from Engineering ( Don't get it twisted). A building technologist can never do the work of a civil engineer, he can only by experience act on their behalf ( Maybe due to years of experience) . A technologist doesn't design or perform engineering analysis. if they do, the structure will fail or collapse or project delivered by compromising standards. They are meant to apply proven or engineers approved processes to build or create or to follow instructions of engineers.

Any building technologist that performs the work of a civil engineer should be arrested and charged for attempted murder. its unsafe. A building technologist can be upgraded to a civil engineer when he/she has passed through the necessary training. tested and trusted.

.

Its your choice bro. Go ahead. You can even employ the one that graduated with ordinary pass. they are better than First Class BSc (in ur own view)
There is difference between what you have heard existing and what you have seen existing.

Naturallyme:
Its your choice bro. Go ahead. You can even employ the one that graduated with ordinary pass. they are better than First Class BSc (in ur own view)
There is difference between what you have heard existing and what you have seen existing.

heard?? nay.... seen?? yay! ... i was actually fortunate to have seen where grads from both institutions performed on field.. and i av alot of them as friends, thus my submission. i would pick a poly civil grad over a uni civil grad anyday.. lemme say structural engineers

In a ideal condition, a structural engineer is expected to be in the office doing structural designs. He may go to the field when problems arises or inspection. Mind you, you cannot generalise what you see only in your office. It depends on individuals and schools. I was part of the two systems ( I have ND, HND, B.Eng). The curricular are different. I understand that uni.graduates are not good in practicals..thats not what they are trained for.

Naturallyme:
In a ideal condition, a structural engineer is expected to be in the office doing structural designs. He may go to the field when problems arises or inspection. Mind you, you cannot generalise what you see only in your office. It depends on individuals and schools. I was part of the two systems ( I have ND, HND, B.Eng). The curricular are different. I understand that uni.graduates are not good in practicals..thats not what they are trained for.

the curriculum re diff, fine.. but in reality, from your word, lemme get a very honest reply from you... WHAT ARE WE TRAINED FOR AS ENGINEERS in the university?? solving for X and Y?? how to apply it in real life were we taught??
and would u also agree with me dat most of this civil poly guys become expert in structural design using various tools and softwares during their one year industrial training whereas THE SO CALLED STRUCTURAL ENGINEER TO-BE myt not even get near a design software until 400L cos he is deeply engrossed solving for X and Y.

That's where you are getting it wrong. That you know a software doesn't make you an Engineer honestly. I smile when an AutoCAD expert says he's a design engineer. he is not. Engineering involves a lot of thinking. Let take for instance, As an engineer, you try to solve a problem, you define your problem and have clear understanding of what you want to do and how u want to achieve it. You think of the constraints and limitations, you combine theories and laboratory results to see if solution is feasible. you start with sketches and select your materials based on their mechanical properties or behavior ( Considering the load conditions you envisage/ Anticipate). those sketches , you give a CAD technician to draw for you (2D & 3D models). ( Its not your job but you can help urself to draw it). then you have your model and model review (depends on the type of project anyway it may involve a lot of engineers from different disciplines rubbing ideas, I mean engineers and technologist too will have inputs by stating their constraints so that it will be included in the model). After confirming your model and its configuration, you analyse using softwares, mind you engineers at times do hand calculations but its faster to use softwares ( Failure analysis considering all anticipated load conditions, stresses and strain to check if your structure or system will not fail). At this stage, you consider all statutory and regulatory quality standards and codes associated with your model and its components. Once you have that conviction that your model is save and has passed, also you have all documentations in place ( Drawings e.t.c). Sir, you are done. You have successfully design a system. its left for the technologists to carry out what you have designed. You can supervise or act as consultant.

That's how engineers work in an ideal environment. not to be struggling with laborers at sites.

yinkard4me:


the curriculum re diff, fine.. but in reality, from your word, lemme get a very honest reply from you... WHAT ARE WE TRAINED FOR AS ENGINEERS in the university?? solving for X and Y?? how to apply it in real life were we taught??
and would u also agree with me dat most of this civil poly guys become expert in structural design using various tools and softwares during their one year industrial training whereas THE SO CALLED STRUCTURAL ENGINEER TO-BE myt not even get near a design software until 400L cos he is deeply engrossed solving for X and Y.

Correct Sir!! I'm also a Uni Graduate B.Eng, but to be honest I only got some glimpse of the softwares for designs during my 6month(400level) I.T . Like seriously the cadre of engineering does not remains desame when it comes to experience.

Its just our educational system, An Engineer should be sound in dy/dx, all d laplace transforms and also very sound when it comes to practical(being on the field).

Just some day I pray our government wake up to her responsibility.

Engineering Cadres
1) Engineers
2) Technologist
3) Technicians
4) craftsmen

Theses cadres have been muddled up. There are clear distinctions. Engineers are not meant to be on the field.

Naturallyme:
That's where you are getting it wrong. That you know a software doesn't make you an Engineer honestly. I smile when an AutoCAD expert says he's a design engineer. he is not. Engineering involves a lot of thinking. Let take for instance, As an engineer, you try to solve a problem, you define your problem and have clear understanding of what you want to do and how u want to achieve it. You think of the constraints and limitations, you combine theories and laboratory results to see if solution is feasible. you start with sketches and select your materials based on their mechanical properties or behavior ( Considering the load conditions you envisage/ Anticipate). those sketches , you give a CAD technician to draw for you (2D & 3D models). ( Its not your job but you can help urself to draw it). then you have your model and model review (depends on the type of project anyway it may involve a lot of engineers from different disciplines rubbing ideas, I mean engineers and technologist too will have inputs by stating their constraints so that it will be included in the model). After confirming your model and its configuration, you analyse using softwares, mind you engineers at times do hand calculations but its faster to use softwares ( Failure analysis considering all anticipated load conditions, stresses and strain to check if your structure or system will not fail). At this stage, you consider all statutory and regulatory quality standards and codes associated with your model and its components. Once you have that conviction that your model is save and has passed, also you have all documentations in place ( Drawings e.t.c). Sir, you are done. You have successfully design a system. its left for the technologists to carry out what you have designed. You can supervise or act as consultant.

That's how engineers work in an ideal environment. not to be struggling with laborers at sites.

sir, did u school in Nigeria no one called an expert in autocad, solid works, orion, comsol softwares an engineer,and all these u've mentioned are well known facts in the engineering family but sadly sir, be honest to yourself how many Nigeria uni engineering grads can imagine, apply and bring to reality all dos bending moments equations and diagram, all those trusses and frame design equations from those indian textbooks we were made to cram and used to solve x and y exams questions.
yh! its only in Nigeria an engineer will hide under the 'we re not supposed to be on the field' when in truth he cannot risk giving answers to technical questions by any of those experienced technicians. Believe me, thats wah those technicians love doing best cos THEY KNOW THEY DONT KNOW

Mrlekan07034617:


Correct Sir!! I'm also a Uni Graduate B.Eng, but to be honest I only got some glimpse of the softwares for designs during my 6month(400level) I.T . Like seriously the cadre of engineering does not remains desame when it comes to experience.

Its just our educational system, An Engineer should be sound in dy/dx, all d laplace transforms and also very sound when it comes to practical(being on the field).

Just some day I pray our government wake up to her responsibility.

not the govt sir, but the lecturers... u'll understand better wen u start ur Msc program..... after a class,u ask the Dr. what u need all dos stuffs for and he answers u with 'honestly i dont know'....

I quite understand you. its because of the bad educational system and bad employment system in Nigeria that we are in these mess. I don't dispute the fact that there are PUSH-BOTTON ENGINEERS. Engineering discipline solely depends on the individual studying it ( Self Motivation). Some do it because they heard its lucrative , some do it because they have passion for it. Someone like me, Engineering is my passion. I think engineering, I speak engineering . I question everything amazing and do personal research to increase my knowledge base. I cant withstand being asked an engineering question and not able to answer. I work on my vehicle, I tell my mechanic wat to do.
Those bending moments and trusses theory you mentioned are applied in design and analysis of structures to ensure they are safe for use. Those textbooks you are talking about were written by professors who has both academic and industrial experience. They are not just mere graduate. Those ones developed under a well organized educational system.

If I say engineers don't go to the field, that doesn't mean that they can identify machines, tools, spanners , bolts and nuts, e.t.c, they designed them for use. everything around us were made by simple application of engineering principles( Not rocket science). Mention one thing, I will tell you the principle behind it.

Those inidians you are talking about are gurus. I have more than a thousand lecture series of Indians lecturers that I listen to every weekend. Fanstastic lectures.

Though I have met some quack engineers that are university graduates too but that does not mean that all university graduates are quacks. it depends on the individual. I called those engineers PUSH-BOTTON ENGINEERS. i have worked with some of them when I was a technician. so also I have met some vast and intelligent graduates too.

Some poly graduates too are exceptional just that they din have the opportunity to go to university ( Hard admission process. Joined university after 3rd attempt) .... they still continuously increase their knowledge base.


I quite understand your view. But change your perception. you need to see some guys, you will be amazed.

yinkard4me:

what do yu need to know??

Hello bro!! Goodmorning, U.I's mech dept just recommended me now please I would like to have a chat with u (via whatsapp) or give u a call. Here's my contact;07034617082

Mrlekan07034617:


Hello bro!! Goodmorning, U.I's mech dept just recommended me now please I would like to have a chat with u (via whatsapp) or give u a call. Here's my contact;07034617082

wow! Congrats. i have replied ur PM

Mrlekan07034617:


Hello bro!! Goodmorning, U.I's mech dept just recommended me now please I would like to have a chat with u (via whatsapp) or give u a call. Here's my contact;07034617082

wow! congrats oh. i have replied ur PM

yinkard4me:

wow! congrats oh. i have replied ur PM

Hello bro, pls what's d situation @d dept now? Hope u guys are done already? Pls tell me the situation of things now or we still have 1,2 or 3 months to wait for the present outgoing Msc student to finish up

Mrlekan07034617:


Hello bro, pls what's d situation @d dept now? Hope u guys are done already? Pls tell me the situation of things now or we still have 1,2 or 3 months to wait for the present outgoing Msc student to finish up

2nd semester exams starts tomao. u guys will resume two weeks afta undergrad resumption.. be learning FORTRAN AND. MATLAB as u waits... u need am bad bad... lol

yinkard4me:

2nd semester exams starts tomao. u guys will resume two weeks afta undergrad resumption.. be learning FORTRAN AND. MATLAB as u waits... u need am bad bad... lol

Bros MATLAB ke? Heee mogbe!!! But no p I sha go survive sha

Wow that's Feb ending latest! Okay thanks anyway I appreciate

Mrlekan07034617:

Bros MATLAB ke? Heee mogbe!!! But no p I sha go survive sha
Wow that's Feb ending latest! Okay thanks anyway I appreciate

u'll sure enjoy ur stay... best wishes

yinkard4me:

u'll sure enjoy ur stay... best wishes

Sorry for bugging u ooo just don't know how u can help me ooo. I will be in need of those materials u used both e-copy and printed.

I'm only being careful that's y I'm asking for the way from someone like u who as gone far ahead of me.

Here is my mail if u don't feel comfortable via mobile; lekansigbeku@yahoo.com

Mrlekan07034617:


Sorry for bugging u ooo just don't know how u can help me ooo. I will be in need of those materials u used both e-copy and printed.

I'm only being careful that's y I'm asking for the way from someone like u who as gone far ahead of me.

Here is my mail if u don't feel comfortable via mobile; lekansigbeku@yahoo.com

i mail u my number some weeks ago