I'm a practising Christian, and won't knowingly say, write or do anything that will bring the Church of Christ to disrepute.

I worship with the RCCG. I've been doing so for a little over 6 years. I admire and align myself with the mission and vision of the RCCG.

But i recently discovered a lot of our growing parishes are been impoverished to further embellish the HQ. A vast majority of what's realised in the parishes go the Province, and from there is sent to the HQ. Local parishes struggle materially and financially to cope with the cost of daily running them. A lot of people are in need; parishes can hardly solve people's needs.

How do we reverse this trend? Local parishes should keep the higher percentage of what's realised. Or better still, if a parish is building, it should be allowed to have a higher share of the resources realised. Our HQ I'd already saturated.

I believe we shall fare better if this unproductive system is changed. As we build cathedrals, we shouldn't forget building lives.

How do we get this message to the church leaders? This is purely an administrative matter, and can be changed for the better.

God bless His Church.

As much as i understand your point of view, i however have a problem with the medium with which this message is being passed across. Most churches usually accrue finances from parishes or branches and then send back a percentage of what individual parish has sent. We should also understand that the HQ has so many involvements too especially missionary work.

doctorgold:
As much as i understand your point of view, i however have a problem with the medium with which this message is being passed across. Most churches usually accrue finances from parishes or branches and then send back a percentage of what individual parish has sent. We should also understand that the HQ has so many involvements too especially missionary work.

Thanks for conveying your thoughts in a polite and Christlike manner. I agree with your point of view, but I still believe the parishes should fare better than they are doing. Shalom.

I totally understand your view. Most old generation Pentecostal churches have rigid account systems that needs to be looked into. This is why what the o.p explained happens.

Richiy:
I totally understand your view. Most old generation Pentecostal churches have rigid account systems that needs to be looked into. This is why what the o.p explained happens.

You're very right. We have been managing to build our parish for some years now. This current rigid system (as you called it) is stifling our progress. We need to look into the system.

dein77:


You're very right. We have been managing to build our parish for some years now. This current rigid system (as you called it) is stifling our progress. We need to look into the system.

This same building thing is affecting us too. While the Living Faith church besides us built their mansion in a short time with a lot of help from their headquarters. Makes me realise we need to tweak our account systems somehow.

What you should do is to analyze the strengths and challenges of the existing system and then propose yours and demonstrate how it tackles the challenges/weaknesses of the former without necessarily compromising on the strengths.

I have discovered that no matter how spiritual a fellowship may be, it is always susceptible to error such as what you are pointing at

vooks:
What you should do is to analyze the strengths and challenges of the existing system and then propose yours and demonstrate how it tackles the challenges/weaknesses of the former without necessarily compromising on the strengths.

I have discovered that no matter how spiritual a fellowship may be, it is always susceptible to error such as what you are pointing at

Thanks a lot. I will consider what you said. As foryour last paragraph , this system isn't actually a spiritual one. We just need to be bolder and loving enough to propose workable changes.

RCCG should stop planting parishes anyhow. They should update their financial cycle system to match the 21st century. How on earth can a parish submit more than 50% of it's revenue to the head-parish above. What do the Senior Pastors expect these parishes to fend on. At the end, the parish pastor will have to inconvenience his personal savings and family just to save face.

THIS IS JUST SOOOOOOO WRONG.

BTW: Why open so many parishes that turn out to be substandard.

CHRISTIANITY SHOULD HAVE STANDARDS OOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

omakay:
RCCG should stop planting parishes anyhow. They should update their financial cycle system to match the 21st century. How on earth can a parish submit more than 50% of it's revenue to the head-parish above. What do the Senior Pastors expect these parishes to fend on. At the end, the parish pastor will have to inconvenience his personal savings and family just to save face.

THIS IS JUST SOOOOOOO WRONG.

BTW: Why open so many parishes that turn out to be substandard.

CHRISTIANITY SHOULD HAVE STANDARDS OOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

When the head of the church must have his private jet and for one year it is 600 000 USD and Ifeel with this money they could build some churches but I feel that it is wrong to make every 5 minutes walk a RCCG church and I feel the other problem is the lifestyle and that he has lost how most of the nigerians live.

nora544:


When the head of the church must have his private jet and for one year it is 600 000 USD and Ifeel with this money they could build some churches but Ifee that it is wrong to make every 5 minutes walk a RCCG church and Ifeel the other problem is the lifestyle and that he has lost how most of the nigerians live.

make every 5 minutes walk a RCCG church

That part of the mission statement is just sooooooo wrong.

And the administrative heads are turning a blind eye to it.

That part of the mission statement is the sole reason behind the littering of sub-standard parishes all over the country.

And the sub-standard parishes are the revenue collecting point for the church.

omakay:
RCCG should stop planting parishes anyhow. They should update their financial cycle system to match the 21st century. How on earth can a parish submit more than 50% of it's revenue to the head-parish above. What do the Senior Pastors expect these parishes to fend on. At the end, the parish pastor will have to inconvenience his personal savings and family just to save face.

THIS IS JUST SOOOOOOO WRONG.

BTW: Why open so many parishes that turn out to be substandard.

CHRISTIANITY SHOULD HAVE STANDARDS OOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

It's a serious matter.

Trials of Brother Jero - Wole Soyinka, Violence - Festus Iyayi.

I know it is kind of strange that i keep hammering on the UN-necessary planting of parishes when the topic is the wrong cycle of revenue.

But the bitter and realistic truth is that until there is a great reduction (if possible CESSATION) in the planting of parishes, this issue of revenue cycle will not stop.

NB: I am a member of R.C.C.G since 1999 and also a functioning instrumentalist with my parish so i am very sure of every factor or point that i am dropping on this thread.

omakay:
I know it is kind of strange that i keep hammering on the UN-necessary planting of parishes when the topic is the wrong cycle of revenue.

But the bitter and realistic truth is that until there is a great reduction (if possible CESSATION) in the planting of parishes, this issue of revenue cycle will not stop.

NB: I am a member of R.C.C.G since 1999 and also a functioning instrumentalist with my parish so i am very sure of every factor or point that i am dropping on this thread.

In my Opinion if church planting stops, the ministry would dimish and fade of the scene because it is the Mission that God gave the ministry, I mean that's the reason why it is existing.

paulGrundy:


In my Opinion if church planting stops, the ministry would dimish and fade of the scene because it is the Mission that God gave the ministry, I mean that's the reason why it is existing.

But R.C.C.G needs to take care of the children it already has before thinking of giving birth to more.

My elder cousin who is a bassist in Winners Chapel says that when a new church is being planted, it is planted with standard. All equipment and materials are placed on ground. I cannot say the same for R.C.C.G. A new parish is structurally and financially empty as at it's time of inception and such parish has to struggle from scratch to become fully functional.

If the parish pastor is not financially buoyant to bear the burden, he then passes the burden to the members.


N.B: Must R.C.C.G plant churches everywhere? What happened to other ministries? Are they preaching the wrong gospel?


The church is using this loop hole to enrich itself and the most burden falls on the many scrap parishes hanging around town.

omakay:


But R.C.C.G needs to take care of the children it already has before thinking of giving birth to more.

My elder cousin who is a bassist in Winners Chapel says that when a new church is being planted, it is planted with standard. All equipment and materials are placed on ground. I cannot say the same for R.C.C.G. A new parish is structurally and financially empty as at it's time of inception and such parish has to struggle from scratch to become fully functional.

If the parish pastor is not financially buoyant to bear the burden, he then passes the burden to the members.


N.B: Must R.C.C.G plant churches everywhere? What happened to other ministries? Are they preaching the wrong gospel?


The church is using this loop hole to enrich itself and the most burden falls on the many scrap parishes hanging around town.

The issue of church planting has little to do with what's on ground and has more to do with the mandate that God gave to them. Remember there are grave consequences of disobedience, one in which they would pay dearly for. Am sure there are other options on the solution to this administrative problem. I suggest that the zonal HQ should be majorly involved: financially and manpower wise in infant parishes (less than 3yrs) under her care.

omakay:


But R.C.C.G needs to take care of the children it already has before thinking of giving birth to more.

My elder cousin who is a bassist in Winners Chapel says that when a new church is being planted, it is planted with standard. All equipment and materials are placed on ground. I cannot say the same for R.C.C.G. A new parish is structurally and financially empty as at it's time of inception and such parish has to struggle from scratch to become fully functional.

If the parish pastor is not financially buoyant to bear the burden, he then passes the burden to the members.


N.B: Must R.C.C.G plant churches everywhere? What happened to other ministries? Are they preaching the wrong gospel?


The church is using this loop hole to enrich itself and the most burden falls on the many scrap parishes hanging around town.

All of this churches are pentecost so they preach all the same so why there must bbe from every church if it is the RCCg odr the winner odr the dipper life a church in one street.
when they go this way that nigeria will have more churches than working places,
Is it to much when a follower has to go 20 minutes to the next church, when i was a child i walk about 30 minutes to my church and that is okay so why so much.
People need places for work or did the pastors forget that people need a work that they can feed the the many pastors and that they can have the money for the luxury lifestile of the head and the family of the church owner.

I see that it is a business because why must a church send so much to the headchurch for what that he can buy the next jet.

paulGrundy:


The issue of church planting has little to do with what's on ground and has more to do with the mandate that God gave to them. Remember there are grave consequences of disobedience, one in which they would pay dearly for. Am sure there are other options on the solution to this administrative problem. I suggest that the zonal HQ should be majorly involved: financially and manpower wise in infant parishes (less than 3yrs) under her care.

the mandate that God gave to them : It is now a question of either 2 facts which are "God's mandate to man" or "Man's self-originated goal". The way affairs in the church are being run nowadays,i strongly want to question your above statement. 60% of these parishes being planted after most "Let's Go A Fishing" programs are being used as catalysts for the promotion and upgrading of mother parishes. How else do you think a parish is being promoted to become an area head-quarter.

And the workers and ministers that are being commissioned to manage the new babies have already being trained to accept whatever command they receive from their leaders (whether right or wrong).

N.B : If you want to argue on the points i have stated above, then it clearly shows that you have little or no knowledge of how the system works.

Before a parish can be planted by an already existing one, certain things must be put in place.

1, Accommodation must be adequately provided for: The proposed premises must have being bought and paid for or rent paid for at least 3 years.

2, There has to be a physical structure in place: You cannot tell me that you have not seen containers, wooden structures and shops being used as parish structures. The Almighty God i serve does not have a standard so low as that.

3, Operation Equipment must be in place: Adequate sitting arrangement, sound and acoustic equipments and other secondary equipments must be place.

4, Revenue generated in that parish should be expended on that parish: Do you think the parish does not have running costs to take care of? Plus the fact that the congregation number is still growing.

Lemme stop here first. I need to wear my helmet and body armor.

The Faithful Brethren will come attacking very soon.

Negro,
you got a major ax to grind with RCCG
Mother churches maintain a tight grip on the satellite churches. May be the ideal would be to raise men and women to run with sattelite branches and let them be. I strongly suspect the only reason churches control their 'subsidiaries' is money. The subsidiaries are revenue centers

omakay:


the mandate that God gave to them : It is now a question of either 2 facts which are "God's mandate to man" or "Man's self-originated goal". The way affairs in the church are being run nowadays,i strongly want to question your above statement. 60% of these parishes being planted after most "Let's Go A Fishing" programs are being used as catalysts for the promotion and upgrading of mother parishes. How else do you think a parish is being promoted to become an area head-quarter.

And the workers and ministers that are being commissioned to manage the new babies have already being trained to accept whatever command they receive from their leaders (whether right or wrong).

N.B : If you want to argue on the points i have stated above, then it clearly shows that you have little or no knowledge of how the system works.

Before a parish can be planted by an already existing one, certain things must be put in place.

1, Accommodation must be adequately provided for: The proposed premises must have being bought and paid for or rent paid for at least 3 years.

2, There has to be a physical structure in place: You cannot tell me that you have not seen containers, wooden structures and shops being used as parish structures. The Almighty God i serve does not have a standard so low as that.

3, Operation Equipment must be in place: Adequate sitting arrangement, sound and acoustic equipments and other secondary equipments must be place.

4, Revenue generated in that parish should be expended on that parish: Do you think the parish does not have running costs to take care of? Plus the fact that the congregation number is still growing.

Lemme stop here first. I need to wear my helmet and body armor.

The Faithful Brethren will come attacking very soon.

omakay:


the mandate that God gave to them : It is now a question of either 2 facts which are "God's mandate to man" or "Man's self-originated goal". The way affairs in the church are being run nowadays,i strongly want to question your above statement. 60% of these parishes being planted after most "Let's Go A Fishing" programs are being used as catalysts for the promotion and upgrading of mother parishes. How else do you think a parish is being promoted to become an area head-quarter.

And the workers and ministers that are being commissioned to manage the new babies have already being trained to accept whatever command they receive from their leaders (whether right or wrong).

N.B : If you want to argue on the points i have stated above, then it clearly shows that you have little or no knowledge of how the system works.

Before a parish can be planted by an already existing one, certain things must be put in place.

1, Accommodation must be adequately provided for: The proposed premises must have being bought and paid for or rent paid for at least 3 years.

2, There has to be a physical structure in place: You cannot tell me that you have not seen containers, wooden structures and shops being used as parish structures. The Almighty God i serve does not have a standard so low as that.

3, Operation Equipment must be in place: Adequate sitting arrangement, sound and acoustic equipments and other secondary equipments must be place.

4, Revenue generated in that parish should be expended on that parish: Do you think the parish does not have running costs to take care of? Plus the fact that the congregation number is still growing.

Lemme stop here first. I need to wear my helmet and body armor.

The Faithful Brethren will come attacking very soon.

No sensible person will disagree with you. Everything you have explained is nothing but the truth. I aso have an issue with the mandate thing. God doesn't change in Person, but His modes of operations do change as time progresses.

Whatever isn't working should be changed. For now, the RCCG pattern, at least in my opinion, isn't working.

Church members are almost singlehandedly saddled with the burden of building a new parish, without tangible assistance from the Province.

We recently resisted a plan to further impoverish our parish. We already have a befitting Zonal HQ, but we were told they are planning to build another MEGA Zonal HQ, hence we all to ccontribute to that project. Meanwhile we are yet to complete our own parish building project.

We simply politely objected. Period.

vooks:
Negro,
you got a major ax to grind with RCCG
Mother churches maintain a tight grip on the satellite churches. May be the ideal would be to raise men and women to run with sattelite branches and let them be. I strongly suspect the only reason churches control their 'subsidiaries' is money. The subsidiaries are revenue centers

The subsidiaries are revenue centers: This bolded is the bottle-neck. Adjust the bottle-neck and all will be well.

you got a major ax to grind with RCCG: Why won't i. Am not like peeps who see things going wrong and keep quiet due to "religion solidarity"

omakay:


The subsidiaries are revenue centers: This bolded is the bottle-neck. Adjust the bottle-neck and all will be well.

you got a major ax to grind with RCCG: Why won't i. Am not like peeps who see things going wrong and keep quiet due to "religion solidarity"

We think alike. I just can't pretend everything is Ok when it's glaringly the opposite. Parishes should be allowed to flourish. The parish should exist for its immediate worshippers first.

Christianity actually makes a man wiser, not dumber. We have a sound mind. We should discern when changes are needed.

You talk about social injustices on NL,right? Is that your best?

omakay:


The subsidiaries are revenue centers: This bolded is the bottle-neck. Adjust the bottle-neck and all will be well.

you got a major ax to grind with RCCG: Why won't i. Am not like peeps who see things going wrong and keep quiet due to "religion solidarity"

dein77:


No sensible person will disagree with you. Everything you have explained is nothing but the truth. I aso have an issue with the mandate thing. God doesn't change in Person, but His modes of operations do change as time progresses.

Whatever isn't working should be changed. For now, the RCCG pattern, at least in my opinion, isn't working.

Church members are almost single handedly saddled with the burden of building a new parish, without tangible assistance from the Province.

We recently resisted a plan to further impoverish our parish. We already have a befitting Zonal HQ, but we were told they are planning to build another MEGA Zonal HQ, hence we all to contribute to that project. Meanwhile we are yet to complete our own parish building project.

We simply politely objected. Period.

You are very much in the system. I commend you for your contribution.

Church members are almost single handedly saddled with the burden of building a new parish, without tangible assistance from the Province.
: God help that parish pastor if he does not have financially buoyant workers and members to share the burden with. He will do anything just to "save face". This is because his in-ability to grow that parish by whatsoever means will be seen by his fellow pastors as a sign of being not serious.

Planting of needless parishes too is one of the major tools the pastor uses to pass the message across that "He is Working". Whoever suffers from this move is none of his business.

vooks:
You talk about social injustices on NL,right? Is that your best?

We are discussing about the administrative irregularities of R.C.C.G

Please, do not derail this discussion.

omakay:


You are very much in the system. I commend you for your contribution.

Church members are almost single handedly saddled with the burden of building a new parish, without tangible assistance from the Province.
: God help that parish pastor if he does not have financially buoyant workers and members to share the burden with. He will do anything just to "save face". This is because his in-ability to grow that parish by whatsoever means will be seen by his fellow pastors as a sign of being not serious.

Planting of needless parishes too is one of the major tools the pastor uses to pass the message across that "He is Working". Whoever suffers from this move is none of his business.

Last year, we advised our OP to consolidate the existing parishes, instead of planting new ones. He agreed.

My parish, after a few months of planting, was almost scrapped because it was "economically viable'...Imagine that. Today, instead of allowing us time to strengthen, they are making efforts to emasculate us again so as to build a new MEGA parish. ...

The administrative irregularities are just too much.

dein77:



Last year, we advised our OP to consolidate the existing parishes, instead of planting new ones. He agreed.

My parish, after a few months of planting, was almost scrapped because it was "economically viable'...Imagine that. Today, instead of allowing us time to strengthen, they are making efforts to emasculate us again so as to build a new MEGA parish. ...

The administrative irregularities are just too much.

The bitter truth is that until gifted and modern young minds take over from Daddy Adeboye and all his assistants, this problem will continue to persist.

Nowadays, administrative affairs are best run by vibrant young and agile minds. Gone are those days when elders held all the wisdom.

omakay:


The bitter truth is that until gifted and modern young minds take over from Daddy Adeboye and all his assistants, this problem will continue to persist.

Nowadays, administrative affairs are best run by vibrant young and agile minds. Gone are those days when elders held all the wisdom.

GBAM!

nora544:


When the head of the church must have his private jet and for one year it is 600 000 USD and Ifeel with this money they could build some churches but I feel that it is wrong to make every 5 minutes walk a RCCG church and I feel the other problem is the lifestyle and that he has lost how most of the nigerians live.

Lol, if they plant church every five mins drive away, you will complain. If they say everybody should gather together as one in redeem camp, you will still complain. Obviously, decisions cannot be made with you as the focal point na.

@OP, church finance is primarily an administrative issue. Headquarters of any establishment usually have more say. Perhaps, you find out how other parishes are doing it. i've seen some impressive rccg parishes in my little life.

Many of these ministries slave-drive their staff and underpay them.
Would Jesus run a ministry these way?
Infact, the ministers of large ministries shud b well paid with a house and car and medicals all included. But theyre paid very poorly.
Many pastors are just suffering in silence. Where then is d motivation to do d their best work?
The bible didnt say only 1 group shud preach d gospel allover the world. Doing things in ones power alone is sin to God.

Discussing problems without addressing the relevant people is gossiping am afraid
How much mileage do you think martin Luther King JR could have gained by blogging about racism?

omakay:


We are discussing about the administrative irregularities of R.C.C.G

Please, do not derail this discussion.