The General belief is that souls don't die. Humans have souls, so do animals of all types. If it is true that souls don't die, and humans go to heaven or hell,

WHERE DO THE SOULS OF ANIMALS GO??


If You believe strongly that you would make Heaven, then you must answer this question!

I thought there was already a thread with the very same topic?

ugborikoko:

The General belief is that souls don't die. Humans have souls, so do animals of all types. If it is true that souls don't die, and humans go to heaven or hell,

WHERE DO THE SOULS OF ANIMALS GO??


Who can answer my question?

Aiight. Good you changed the topic.

@Pilgrim,

Please tell me what you think

ugborikoko:

@Pilgrim,

Please tell me what you think

I shall do so in due course.

"Soul" and "Spirit" in Scripture

Christians sometimes wonder about the difference between the "soul" and the "spirit." When discussing the "soul," they wonder if it is immortal – or what happens to the "soul" when a person dies.

In order to answer these questions, we must have some basis or frame of reference for our discussion. There are many ideas about what the "soul" or "spirit" might be, but these are often simply based on feelings and speculation. A general and open-ended discussion on these concepts can bog down into a clash of uninformed opinions.

Our discussion can be more productive if we ask what the Bible say about the "soul" and "spirit." How does Scripture use these words and how does it explain what these are?

Immortal "Soul" or "Spirit"?

Regarding the nature of the soul, we would have to look at such Scriptures as Matthew 10:28, in which Jesus said the soul could be destroyed. Reflecting on such passages, it can hardly be said that the soul is immortal, unless one were to argue that "destroyed" in biblical usage meant something different from our normal conception of this word.

"Immortality," of course, suggests infinite existence not only into the future but also throughout the past. Nothing in Scripture suggests that the "soul" has such a quality. Some early church fathers, such as Origen, taught the preexistence of the human "soul," but this is not sustainable by Scripture.

As we have seen, the "soul" in Scripture is really the person as human being, who has been created by God. That which is created does not have eternal preexistence. As far as the "spirit" is concerned, this is something that is "breathed into" the human, and which creates the life of the person, as it were. Again, no idea of preexistence of the person as "soul" or "spirit" is implied in Scripture.

In some ways, from the biblical perspective, it seems that the phrase "immortal soul" may be an oxymoron, or contradiction in terms. The Bible tends to see human beings as mortal creatures, subject to death as persons, that is, as "souls" in whom the "spirit" resides. Immortality is something that humans must "put on" in the resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). It is not said to be a quality inherent in the "soul" or "spirit" of a person.

This, of course, brings up the question of how we are to understand what "soul" is. Is mind an expression of "soul," and if it is, what does this say about the latter? Do humans have a "spirit," and what would be its nature? The Bible doesn’t seem to answer these questions in any direct way, as our study of the biblical usage of nephesh, psuche, ruach and pneuma indicate.

To summarize, the Bible does not appear to be explicit about what exactly makes up human consciousness, self-awareness or mind – and how this might relate to something called "soul" or "spirit." Because of the Bible’s ambiguity or silence on the matter, the church has not issued any formal and dogmatic statements on the "soul" or "spirit in man." Our hope – and the emphasis of Scripture – is that in the resurrection we shall "put on" immortality, and through this "putting on" we shall have eternal life in God.

From here: http://www.wcg.org/lit/spiritual/soulspirit.htm

@ Pastor

if what you quoted is true, that the concept of soul is indeed a concept and is ambigous, then Pastors should stop preaching about what they are not sure of. A dog dies, no one talks about it going to hell or heaven. A lion kills a person no one talks about it going to hell. Why then do people talk of humans, which they claim also have souls going some where to meet their maker or to hell for punishment?

There are fundamental questions that Christains need to ask, to be sure that they are not being misled

Hi Pastor AIO,

That was helpful. Just a line to balance off issues:

"Immortality," of course, suggests infinite existence not only into the future but also throughout the past.

Maybe, maybe not. How? Among other things, it is not restricted to the sense above; for immortality does not always suggest "infinite existence" throughout the past. Some concepts or context of immortality include:

        ●  not liable or subject to death

        ●  not liable to perish or decay; imperishable; everlasting

In these contexts, perhaps we find a few pointers in Scripture where the term may not actually be pointing to the idea of "infinite existence throughout the past". Let's remind ourselves of a few:

        ●  1 Cor. 15:53 - "this mortal must put on immortality"

        ●  1 Cor. 15:54 - "this mortal shall have put on immortality"

Perhaps it would indicate that the one who puts on "immortality" was not having "infinite existence throughout the past". Rather, it would be pointing to the understanding that the one who puts on immortality is no longer subject to death.

I thought to point that out, because this idea of "infinite existence in the past" seems to be the basis of the confusion for some when they discuss "immortality".

Nice point Pilgrim, but where do animals go?

ugborikoko:

@ Pastor

if what you quoted is true, that the concept of soul is indeed a concept and is ambigous, then Pastors should stop preaching about what they are not sure of. A dog dies, no one talks about it going to hell or heaven. A lion kills a person no one talks about it going to hell. Why then do people talk of humans, which they claim also have souls going some where to meet their maker or to hell for punishment?

There are fundamental questions that Christains need to ask, to be sure that they are not being misled

May I quickly post a disclaimer. I have nothing to do with that website. I just made reference to it because I felt it would help to stimulate the discussion. There are somethings I agree with and others that leave me unsure. It is true that in the bible 'soul' is used in a great variety of contexts. Sometimes it includes the physical person, and other times a distinction is made from the body and the soul. It is possible that a lot of the times the use of the word is just rhetorical.

pilgrim.1:

Hi Pastor AIO,

That was helpful. Just a line to balance off issues:

Maybe, maybe not. How? Among other things, it is not restricted to the sense above; for immortality does not always suggest "infinite existence" throughout the past. Some concepts or context of immortality include:

        ●  not liable or subject to death

        ●  not liable to perish or decay; imperishable; everlasting

In these contexts, perhaps we find a few pointers in Scripture where the term may not actually be pointing to the idea of "infinite existence throughout the past". Let's remind ourselves of a few:

        ●  1 Cor. 15:53 - "this mortal must put on immortality"

        ●  1 Cor. 15:54 - "this mortal shall have put on immortality"

Perhaps it would indicate that the one who puts on "immortality" was not having "infinite existence throughout the past". Rather, it would be pointing to the understanding that the one who puts on immortality is no longer subject to death.

I thought to point that out, because this idea of "infinite existence in the past" seems to be the basis of the confusion for some when they discuss "immortality".

I agree with you. I also want to make a distinction between Eternal and Durable. Durable exists in, and persists through, Time. The Eternal has nothing to do with time but rather exists in Timelessness. So it might be possible to be Durable forever and yet not be Eternal. However to be Durable forever is not possible, I don't think. Because in the temporal existence we live in all things are subject to change. Or as Heraclitus would put it, Panta Rhei (Πάντα ῥεῖ ).

Check this out:

Ruh and nafs, ruach and nefesh

I just wrote a paper for my Qur'an class on the Arabic terms ruh and nafs. Ruh is usually translated as "spirit," and nafs as "soul" (or "self." I was drawn to them because I suspected they would parallel their Hebrew cognates ruach and nefesh. And wow, do they ever! I have no idea how many people will be interested in this, but I figure at least a few of y'all might be fascinated, as I am, so I'm going to share some of what I've learned. If you've been reading VR for a while, you know I'm always looking for interreligious common ground,

From here: http://velveteenrabbi.blogs.com/blog/2008/10/ruh-and-nafs-ruach-and-nefesh.html

ugborikoko:

Nice point Pilgrim, but where do animals go?

Ugborikoko, I think that your issue might hinge on the philosophical problem of Identity?

@Pastor AIO,

Thank you again for the added context - that's what I enjoy in discussions, thanks.

Pastor AIO:

Ugborikoko, I think that your issue might hinge on the philosophical problem of Identity?

Well, I was wondering about that, which was why I have been reserved for the moment because it may not be in our best interest to mix philosophical ideologies with the content of the Christian faith. There are so many ways that people may answer his question, but I wondered about what he ws all about.

Anyways, ugborikoko, I shall give you my thoughts in due course.

Pastor AIO:

I agree with you. I also want to make a distinction between Eternal and Durable. Durable exists in, and persists through, Time. The Eternal has nothing to do with time but rather exists in Timelessness. So it might be possible to be Durable forever and yet not be Eternal. However to be Durable forever is not possible, I don't think. Because in the temporal existence we live in all things are subject to change. Or as Heraclitus would put it, Panta Rhei (Πάντα ῥεῖ ).

I appreciate your thoughts. Infact, I probably had anticipated you on the highlighted part, which was why I referenced 1 Cor. 15:53 & 54 earlier. How? Well, I'm of the understanding that the "durable" (that which might be in a state of mortality, perhaps?) could become "forever" - in the context that "mortality" would have put on "immortality". That's what I think, though.

The issue is not necessarily philosophical. Its an issue that the bible must be able to answer. People have interpreted soul to be something that does not die. That's why this question appears difficult to answer.

If we take what is written at Ezekiel 18:4 to be true, then it would mean that souls Die. If souls die then there is no question of what happens to the souls of animals when they die.

People of Nairaland do u believe Souls are eternal. If you do please tell us where souls of animals go when they die!

@ugborikoko,

ugborikoko:

The issue is not necessarily philosophical. Its an issue that the bible must be able to answer. People have interpreted soul to be something that does not die. That's why this question appears difficult to answer.

That is precisely where the problem is - "interpretations". The statements written in any verse may be interpreted one way or the other; and it is in those interpretations (not the verses) that problems arise. Let me show you one example:

ugborikoko:

If we take what is written at Ezekiel 18:4 to be true, then it would mean that souls Die. If souls die then there is no question of what happens to the souls of animals when they die.

In my view, your interpretation of that verse may not help (and perhaps, that was one reason why I had wondered if you were being philosophical in the first place). From that verse, there are at least two things highlighted: "the soul that sinneth" and "it shall die". If we take this statement in the same way as you did and apply it to your assumptions, wouldn't it b fair that you also establish a basis for applying it to animals as well? The verse says the "soul that sinneth" - and you should also help us see the "animals that sinneth".

The thing is this, the word "soul" is used there in reference to the person himself/herself. This again is clear in other places where they are so used:

~~ Gen 17:14
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised,
that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

~~ Gen 46:18
These are the sons of Zilpah, whom Laban gave to Leah his daughter,
and these she bare unto Jacob, even sixteen souls.

Perhaps you need to look again before drawing the inference you did earlier.

Dear Pilgrim,

Fine, interpretations cloud the truths of christianity. I maybe i interpreted wrongly. But the question has still not been answered. Even if you say the animal that sinneth would die, does that indicate that the soul of that animal dies. If you disagree that the soul of the animal does not die, then you must explain were this soul goes to.

You still have not answered the question my dear Pilgrim!

Ok, i`ll take silence to mean no idea!

ugborikoko:

You still have not answered the question my dear Pilgrim!

Ok, i`ll take silence to mean no idea!

Pilgim.1 hadly ever answers any question on this forum, she would rather run around in circles grasping at straws instead of addressing the real issues raised.

@ugborikoko,

ugborikoko:

Dear Pilgrim,

Fine, interpretations cloud the truths of christianity. I maybe i interpreted wrongly. But the question has still not been answered. Even if you say the animal that sinneth would die, does that indicate that the soul of that animal dies. If you disagree that the soul of the animal does not die, then you must explain were this soul goes to.

I did not say that the animal that sinneth; rather, I asked you to carefully reconsider what inferences you were drawing by interpreting the "soul" in Ezekiel 18:4 and then applying it to the animal.

ugborikoko:


You still have not answered the question my dear Pilgrim!

Ok, i`ll take silence to mean no idea!

You may take silence to mean what I did not indicate. If ever I was going to be silent, you would not find me in this thread. If you already have made up your mind about what I think, thank you - I can then save them as well.

KunleOshob:

Pilgim.1 hadly ever answers any question on this forum, she would rather run around in circles grasping at straws instead of addressing the real issues raised.

Don't take it personal. You may champion the cause of those who are too driven with false assertions and get pissed off when they are pointed out, but it does not mean you have to be preoccupied with more false statements.

5. Is the "breath of life" the same thing which passes through the nostrils of animals? Genesis 7:21-22. Is it the breath of life that is cut off when a human being or an animal drowns? Verse 23. Then the source of life in man and animals is the same, isn't it?

COMMENT: If the "breath of life" even remotely meant that man has an immortal soul, then so do animals, birds and even insects—gnats, fleas, mosquitoes, etc.!

From here: http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/ACCC/k/731/#1365513655

This one is a very good read, although again I don't agree with all the information in there.

@ poster,
check below the link, you might come across what you asked, and if any other question arises kindly ask it


https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-193103.0.html#msg3141279

All Dogs go to heaven,

I am not sure where the rest go

Wetin concern me with animals and their souls??

Pilgrim1
You Lol why all the evasion. . . . lol, if you don't know the answer just go ahead and say so. . . .

@mazaje,

mazaje:

Pilgrim1
You Lol why all the evasion. . . . lol, if you don't know the answer just go ahead and say so. . . .

If you have an answer, please share.

@ugborikoko,

What I had expected was that you would consider that very verse you offered carefully again and invite a discussion. Initially, it seemed you were seeking a philosophical dimension to your enquiry, which I could offer you (incidentally, I was not the first to have thought so). However, because the one problem with people reading any text is a matter of interpretation, I offered that you should carefully re-read that verse that you had based your ideas on, and see what it stated. At least, I was not pushing my ideas, but asking a dialogue. If you had already made up your mind that I didn't want to answer, what was the point sharing anything further?

However, if you are willing, I could then go on and share my thoughts. If otherwise, no worries. But here is something for your attention:

ugborikoko:

I maybe i interpreted wrongly. .

If you disagree that the soul of the animal does not die, then you must explain were this soul goes to.

Look again at the verse you quoted initially: what do you make out of this statement - "Behold, all souls are mine" (Ezek. 18:4)? You used that as applicable to animals as well, right? I only called your attention to re-check or re-consider it; let me understand what you had in mind, and then I can offer you some more substance. If that is not going to happen, no wahala. Blessings all the same.

pilgrim.1:

@ugborikoko,

What I had expected was that you would consider that very verse you offered carefully again and invite a discussion. Initially, it seemed you were seeking a philosophical dimension to your enquiry, which I could offer you (incidentally, I was not the first to have thought so). However, because the one problem with people reading any text is a matter of interpretation, I offered that you should carefully re-read that verse that you had based your ideas on, and see what it stated. At least, I was not pushing my ideas, but asking a dialogue. If you had already made up your mind that I didn't want to answer, what was the point sharing anything further?

However, if you are willing, I could then go on and share my thoughts. If otherwise, no worries. But here is something for your attention:

Look again at the verse you quoted initially: what do you make out of this statement - "Behold, all souls are mine" (Ezek. 18:4)? You used that as applicable to animals as well, right? I only called your attention to re-check or re-consider it; let me understand what you had in mind, and then I can offer you some more substance. If that is not going to happen, no wahala. Blessings all the same.

The question should really be, if according to pilgrim, god said 'ALL SOULS ARE MINE' Then we have to assume that snakes, goats, chickens, mosquitoes, worms and slugs all have souls and will go or not go to heaven

How do we know which animals are going to heaven sef? The dog that bit my neighbour last week must definately go to Hell no question about that and the goats that shit along the road that violate Fashola's beautifying lagos scheme must mos def rot in hell. That is a grave sin of disobedience. What about those slimy slugs crawling around the dustbins, sharing a pint of bile with the cockroaches in oshodi dumps? Surely they must be going to heaven because they are helping to clean out the dirt of lagos.

Have you imagined your self pilgrim in Heaven with as your soul and chilling beside you is the soul of a good maggot and guniea worm? Obvious you shouldnt discriminate because the bible tells us that: 'ALL SOULS ARE MINE' . You better start getting close and being kind to all the lice, louse and rodents you come across with from now on because, if they meet you in heaven, e go bad o!, lol

P:S: Did jesus die for the revolting 12 legged spiders and slugs too? What religion do chickens profess their lives to?

Sometimes Christians can be a very hilarious bunch!

Souls of most animals in Africa end up in the cooking pot!

@ poster
But really what does it matter?How does that affect the human race and all our battles? our quest for a better world and our desires for peace and inner stability.
I would rather worry about my own soul rather than those of animals, let their creator decide what he wants to do with them.
cheers.

I've heard that Dogs go to doggie heaven.


So there you have it. problem solved.

This is an interesting conversation that I had with alhaji Olabowale a few months back. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-1787.0.html#msg2365946

In Ecclesiastes 3:21 It states that "Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?"

This to me explains the destination of the rational soul of a man and that of the life of animals. The spirit of a man goes upward to heaven to be judged. "Just as a man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment" (Heb.9:27). His state is then fixed either in heaven or hell in an unchangeable state of joy or torment. It is also definite that the life of the animals goes downward to the earth, it perishes at death. Jesus the last Adam came to save mankind from this free downfall, He died the death that we should die and exchanged His life for our lives. Receive Him into your life and escape hell the destiny of sinners.

Dear Pilgrim,

i must appologise for my impetuousness. Sorry i brought much heat on you. Please don't hold back from sharing you views.

Nairaland, i consider this to be an important issue. The reason being, finding answer to this question question could shed light on whether or not souls die. If its true that souls their, then why must it be concluded by most of christainity that you either go to heaven of hell? Adolf Hitler was an evil man while alive, so where is his soul? Ok, not in heaven for sure, is it in hell? What if Adolf Hitler's soul is dead, just like the soul of the dead rat on the road, and the butchered chicken.

If i know for sure that the soul of chickens and goats die when these animals die, then it serves as a proof that the souls of the person does not necessarily go to heaven or hell, it just possibly might be really dead!

Please people give this some thought!

Here on earth, there're only two types of living that makes up this earth,
those with spirit and those with the souls,
a spirit is the core of a human being, and this spirit has a gift incorporated in it, and it is known as the free will. That is the desire to make a choice. The free will can be liken to a converging lens, that collects the power of the sun rays and converge to point either for good purposes or otherwise.
A soul, is condition a spirit when it jhas put on another cloak on itself, but this cloak is not the physical human body. A soul can also be likened to the state in which when a human being shed off this physical earth body, but that state should not be compared to the spirit, the spirit is still inside of the soul, it is only when the soul makes its way back to paradise the spiritual home of the human spirit, that the spirit core remains, because along the way to paradise the spirit continues to shed off the cloaks of different gradations when journeying up.
Then where doest the soul of the animals come from?
The souls of the animals come from a point in creation which is known as the ANIMISTIC REALM. This soul of animal is different from the spirit of man, all because it has no free willof its own, and also it cannot attain self-consciousness. The animals swing in total harmony in the will of the creator, they never do otherwise, cos they lack free will. No matter what an animal does, the creator dont see any wrong in it, so it is now left for we humans to be weary of them and also to strife and understand them (the animals) better.
When animals die, the soul go back to that realm of the Animistic Substantiality, because that is where they originate from.
The place where the spirit of mankind originates from is higher than that of the animals, that is why an animal can nevr become a human being and vice-versa.
But these animals stand higher in creation than mankind of today, because they fully obey the laws of the almighty.