A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by Hiswordxray(m): 1:20pm On Jan 29, 2015 |
BIBLESPEAKS:Go and read your Bible very well. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by dolphinheart(m): 2:46pm On Jan 29, 2015 |
@ hiswordxray I'm not saying that any experience that is not written in the Bible is not of God. I'm saying that such experience is personal to the person that experienced it and only that person and God knows the truth. But there is one way that all can know that that person has the holy spirit, and it is if such person displays its fruitage. By manifestation , if you mean actions , then I dnt know , but the bible is a sure guide for us to shift fake from reality, lie from truth, evil spirit from holy spirit. Remember it is not only by performing wonders, miracles and prophecy, Satan can also do that Reading the bible guides me on how to act in everyday life. If you allow the word of God to guide ur heart, ur concience will be strong enough for you to discern good from bad, right from wrong, thus having the ability to make the right decisions. That is why paul said "the scripture is completely equipt for every good work " vital for our salvation . Jesus said he will sent us a helper, the holy spirit. That helper as he has done in the bible is to help us in understanding things better and not primarily to tell us what to do in our personal life in every circumstances, like some people today will tell you the spirit tells them to go out or stay in or to go to the toilet. Some people want the holy spirit to tell them everything, show them everything and not to work and use their brain for their salvation. When moses had the spirit of God, he made personal decisions for himself and for the nation of isreal , and they lived with the consequences , some good, some bad. Likewise David, Solomon, jonah,and the apostles. all anointed and appointed servants of jehovah. What questions can't the bible train you/give you directions or tell you the outright answer.? Concerning my questions: 1)God said Adam was made out of dust and when he died he would turn to dust. (So since adam died and has not been resurrected , he is still dead and thus he is still dust right?right) . 2)All men have immortal soul, whether good or bad. (So y u come say adam lost imortality when he lost his spiritual closeness to God and he became dust? ) (what is death , if its not the loss of life?) (What does the bible say happens to man when he dies) ( Which bible verse tells us directly (no derived analogy pls)that man is still alife after death. 3)In heaven. (If adam and his descendants could go to heaven and live forever if they repented and serve God , why did jesus have to come to earth?) , why did he have to die for our sins since we could just repent and gain evalasting life like our father adam who you said is now in heaven) (Why did jesus now say "no one has ascended into the heavens " when he was on earth.) (Why did peter say " David has not ascended into heaven" ) (Why did paul state that the faithfull ones of old are dead and are awaiting resurrection to receive the reward they foresaw in the future.) (Why does jesus need to shout and have the trumpet blown to resurrect people on earth , while they are ready with him in heaven .) If they are alive in heaven, who will then come out of hell when hell gives up the dead in it ? |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by Hiswordxray(m): 8:18am On Jan 31, 2015 |
dolphinheart:The people of the Corinth has many spiritual gifts and manifestations of the Spirit but yet they are the most sinful church Paul planted. Paul didn't say their spiritual gifts is of the devil because they don't have the fruit of the Spirit. Paul simply told them that they are God's holy people and they should live like God's holy people. You are right, we are not robots that need instructions before we can do anything. The problem with people is that they are used to living by knowledge, laid ruled, code of conduct and instructions. But Christ died to life not a moral code. Men only know how to live by knowledge ever since Adam ate the fruit of know of good and evil. We don't know how to live by the life Christ have given us. We are suppose to live by divine instincts, spiritual impulses and not by an instructor who will tell us when to eat, sit and sleep. It's just ridiculous... 1). Yes Adam flesh became flesh and his soul went to Sheol. 2). Adam flesh and everything on earth became able to decay and die. "20 For creation was condemned to lose its purpose, not of its own will, but because God willed it to be so. Yet there was the hope 21 that creation itself would one day be set free from its slavery to decay and would share the glorious freedom of the children of God." (Rom 8:20-21) 3). You asked me where is Adam now and I said in heaven. Before Jesus died Adam was in Sheol (the good part of Sheol, read the parable of Jesus about Lazarus and the rich man). When Jesus died he went to the good part of Sheol/Hade to bring out Adam and all the saint of old and he carried them to heaven. "6 But what the scripture says about being put right with God through faith is this: “You are not to ask yourself, Who will go up into heaven?” (that is, to bring Christ down). 7 “Nor are you to ask, Who will go down into the world below?” (that is, to bring Christ up from death)." (Rom 10:6-7) "As the scripture says, “When he went up to the very heights, he took many captives with him; he gave gifts to people.” 9 Now, what does “he went up” mean? It means that first he came down to the lowest depths of the earth." (Eph 4:8-9). Jesus went to Sheol and came out with many captives and those captives are the saints of old. "13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love," (Col 1:13). Sheol/Hades belongs to those who are spiritually dead, who lived in the kingdom of darkness. Jesus went to set them free and give them eternal life by bringing them into the kingdom of God. dolphinheart:Eternal life is not immortality. If it was the Bible won't have used the word "eternal life" but it would have simply us the word "immortality". Eternal life is life in the kingdom of God. It is being a citizen and living in God's kingdom. Before Jesus came no man could ever become a citizen in God's kingdom. All men where spiritually death and lived in the kingdom of darkness. And when they die they go to Sheol/Hades where all spiritually dead people belong. This Sheol/Hades was divided into two or three (not quite sure because Jesus described two while Enoch said God showed him three - read the book of Enoch, it is a book the Jewish people read even during the time of Jesus. There are evidence that proves Jesus, Peter and others read this book. James even give a direct quotation the book of Enoch 1:9 in James 1:14). Jesus went to the good part of Sheol/Hades and gave the saints eternal life. The Bible made it clear that people of the old covenant could only have eternal life after they died. This is why Jesus went to give them eternal life |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by CAPTIVATOR: 5:26pm On Jan 31, 2015 |
Hiswordxray:STOP livin in myths .... , Adam and Abel go to heaven when they die yet Jesus came many years after they have died and said " NO MAN has ever been to Heaven" Joh 3:13 , so ar they in hellfire ? Since the procedure is hell or heaven and since they are not in heaven , mayb they are in hellfire .... Lol, Am tryin to be sarcastic, showin you how ridiculous the teachings of Christendom are. SHOW me where the word "immortal soul" appeared in the scriptures ?? |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by paulGrundy(m): 6:01pm On Jan 31, 2015 |
BIBLESPEAKS: Source of article or they are lies. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by Hiswordxray(m): 8:47pm On Jan 31, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR:I showed you how ridiculous the teachings of JW is but you ignore it. This show you have been blinded. Well I can't waste my time explaining color red to a blind man. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by dolphinheart(m): 12:45am On Feb 01, 2015 |
@ hiswordxray I'm happy that you have agreed on the issue of the external force acting on our physical being . Man is flesh, flesh activated by the life force giving by God to adam. The same spirit that is in me is also the same spirit that is in animals. Adam and the animals where not giving souls, they became souls when there physical body became activated by Gods life force. Now to the issue of adam 1.) you said "Adam flesh became flesh and his soul went to Sheol". I've proved to you that adam does not have a soul different from his flesh . When adam was created , he was created as perfect flesh and did not become flesh when he sinned. He was flesh since the first day he was created . Remember what God told him " from dust you are" Adam as a soul (living being ) went to sheol(hell) when he died . Hell/sheol/hades is the common grave where humans , whether righteous or unrighteous, good or evil go to when they die. Throughout the inspired Scriptures, Sheol/hell/ hades/grave( all meaning the same thing) is continually associated with death and not life. 1Sa 2:6; 2Sa 22:6; Ps 18:4, 5; 49:7-10, 14, 15; 88:2-6; 89:48; Isa 28:15-18 ; also compare Ps 116:3, 7-10 with 2Co 4:13, 14. It is spoken of as “the land of darkness” (Job 10:21) and a place of silence. (Ps 115:17) Abel apparently was the first one to go to Sheol, and since then countless millions of human dead have joined him in the dust of the ground. Now what does the bible say is condition of man(soul) when he dies and go to hell. The dead are shown to be “conscious of nothing at all”/ "don't know anything" and the death state to be one of complete inactivity/no thoughts, thinking. ( Ec 9:5, 10; Ps 146:4) Those dying are described as going into “the dust of death” ( Ps 22:15) In death there is no mention of God or any praising of him. No life remembers or praise God in hell/sheol Ps 6:5; For in death there is no remembrance of you: in the grave who shall give you thanks? Isa 38:18, 19;For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth In both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures, death is likened to sleep, a fitting comparison not only because of the unconscious condition of the dead but also because of the hope of an awakening through the resurrection. ( Ps 13:3; Joh 11:11-14) 2). U still have not answered the question on number 2 and ill restate it below 2)All men have immortal soul, whether good or bad. (So y u come say adam lost imortality when he lost his spiritual closeness to God and he became dust? ) (what is death , if its not the loss of life?) (What does the bible say happens to man when he dies) ( Which bible verse tells us directly (no derived analogy pls)that man is still alife after death. 3). If I'm wrong in my understanding about what you said on 3rd question(s)pls correct me, *You stated that adam is presently alive in heaven, But he went to the good side of hell before jesus took him to heaven .you based this on the parable of jesus about the rich man and lazarus and ROM 10: 6-7 My remarks/ answer : adam is not presently in heaven why? Cus as at the point of his death, the hope of heaven was not his hope or that of the righteous ones before jesus came to earth. The first mention of heavenly hope was made by jesus when he came to earth. Heaven is only for those that where "born again" , who knew jesus cus its through his name and knowledge of him that they will ascend into heaven . Now if adam is in heaven, and he went to heaven when jesus went to hell and then took him(adam) to heaven with him, the following questions requires answers A. Where where they(the resurrected ones) when jesus was resurrected and still on earth for weeks after his resurrection? . Did they go to heaven before jesus ascended and presented his ransome sacrifice to his God? Did they go heaven before jesus had a chance to prepare a place for them .? If after jesus has immediately sent them to heaven when he was resurrected, who are the righteous that are going to be resurrected with the unrighteous after the last day? Remember that the bible verse you are quoting to defend ur beliefs are made by those who are still alive and are not dead yet, so what happens to them immediately they die, do they go to hell or not? What happens to a present day righteous man ?. Do you know that those who will ascend to heaven either dead or alive (first resurrection)will do so at jesus coming , I want to hear ur view, has jesus come or is he still coming? To be continued. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by dolphinheart(m): 2:14am On Feb 01, 2015 |
@ hiswordxray ........Continued * you stated the following : Sheol/Hades belongs to those who are spiritually dead, who lived in the kingdom of darkness. My remarks/ answers: no one is alive in any state ones he dies and know nothing when he dies, why ? Cus the bible says so. Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6: For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. (the dead experience neither joy nor torment. Indeed, since they are unconscious, they cannot experience anything at all) Ecclesiastes 9:10 ; Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. Ps 115:17 ; The dead cannot sing praises to the LORD, for they have gone into the silence of the grave. Ps 146:4 ; His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Isa 38:18 ;"For Sheol cannot thank You, Death cannot praise You; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your faithfulness. The soul that is sinning will die(go to hell ) Can you merge the verses I quoted above with you belief that people in hell are concious or they are aware of their condition ? *You stated : "As the scripture says, “When he went up to the very heights, he took many captives with him; he gave gifts to people.” 9 Now, what does “he went up” mean? It means that first he came down to the lowest depths of the earth." (Eph 4:8-9). Jesus went to Sheol and came out with many captives and those captives are the saints of old. "13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love," (Col 1:13). (pls I dnt understand what or how u are trying to link the bible verses you quoted together, where did you get the first part you quoted from). To be continued ........ |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by CAPTIVATOR: 11:20am On Feb 01, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR: |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by dolphinheart(m): 7:54pm On Feb 01, 2015 |
@ hiswordxray ............ Continued Pls what is eternal life and what is imortality,? what's the difference between the two?. Answers to these questions will help us a lot in our discussion . Pls give instances in the bible where man is said to be spiritualy dead and let's look at it . ? Is abel,Noah, moses, David , peter, paul, Isaiah,john,and those who where anointed by the holy spirit spiritualy dead? Are those who performed the act of resurrection before and after jesus spiritualy dead? Is lazarus who was resurrected by jesus spiritualy dead? Please what do you really mean by spiritualy dead (add sriptural prove pls) ? If being spiritualy alive is what adam lost , what is the difference between perfect adam before the sin and his descendants in terms of there relationship with God. ? What is the difference in the spiritual awareness of perfect adam and that of moses, elijah, paul and john. ? On the book of enoch Are you saying that the book is inspired of God? (add prove) Who wrote the book of enoch(add prove) When was it written (add prove) Did james say he quoted from the book? End of reply |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by Hiswordxray(m): 6:19pm On Feb 02, 2015 |
dolphinheart:Life to God is not continuous existence and death is not cease of existence. God is a spirit and spirit don't cease to exist. I would try to explain both life and death according to my understanding of the Bible. God is the Creator and the giver of life. But there are different kind of life mentioned in the Bible and they are: 1) Life Of Nature: This is a natural life that every creature has. "The Word gave life to everything that was created,... " (John 1:4 NLT) This is also the life that God breath into Adam and it sometimes refer to as the breath of God. 2) Eternal Life: This is different from immortality. The evil spirits are immortal but they don't have eternal life. Immediately an angle sin he losses eternal life. All those who lives in the kingdom of God (or the kingdom of heaven) has eternal life. Eternal life is like a citizenship of God's kingdom. The people of the old covenant do not have eternal life but they can only have it when they dead i.e their soul will have to wait in the good side of Sheol until Jesus dies and give them eternal life. But for we under the new covenant immediately we get born again we receive eternal life because we are born into God's kingdom. 3) Life Of God's Word: This life makes us resistance to the law of death (I would talk more about this later). All the people in the old covenant are under the kingdom of darkness (which can also be called the kingdom of death). All those in this kingdom are spiritually dead and are ruled by the law of death. But the life of God's word makes the saints of the old covenant resistance to the law of death. This was why they were able to be righteous despite their death state. If you read all through the old testament especially the books of Psalm you would realize that God's word gives them life. "Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you— The sure mercies of David." (Isa 55:3) 4) The Divine Life Of God: All living things have their own life and they live by their life. Lion live by the life of a lion, Chicken live by the life of a chicken and fish live by the life of a fish. So also God has His own life and His life contain His nature. "by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2Peter 1:4). Jesus lived by the life of God and believers also receive this life. "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me." (John 6;57) "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself," (John 5:26) As Christians we have to stop living by knowledge (laws and code of conduct) and human life but we need to learn how to live by the divine life of God. But for death there are only two types of death which are Death and Eternal Death. Physical death is not a type of death but a physical manifestation of death. Death itself is spiritual as a result there is nothing like spiritual death (spiritually dead is a more accurate term). Death according to the Bible can be in different form. 1). Death as a kingdom: - The kingdom of the devil is the same as the kingdom of darkness which is the same with the kingdom of the word which can also be called the kingdom of death. In this kingdom all the citizens are spiritually dead. Therefore when Jesus said we pass from life to death it is the same as what Paul said that we are translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of the son of God (Col 1:13). 2). Death as a law: - The kingdom of death is ruled by the law of death. Paul described this law when he said "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." (Rom 7:23). Paul is saying the law of death is operating in him and warring against the law of is mind (which is his will ) and bringing him to always obey the law of sin which is inside him. Paul was describing when he was still spiritually dead before he knew Christ, remember he said "when the commandment came" (Rom 7:9). Paul was talking about when he just learn of the law. 3). Death as fruit: - When we adhere to sin we produce sin onto death. Paul mentioned this in Rom 7:5 "For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit onto death." We know the fruit of the spirit is then the fruit of death would be murder, adultery, lies etc. Whether we are believers or not we could produce fruit onto death when we think and heart carnally. 4). Death as Being Inactive:- The spirit nor the soul is never dead in this sense but the body can become inactive when the vital organs are not functioning. This is when life leaves the body. Now life cannot leave the spirit of a man because the breath of life was breathed into the body not the spirit. But a spirit is said to be dead when it is living in the kingdom of death or it is in hell (second death). This is also called physical death and it is the physical manifestation of death (remember death itself is spiritual). The reason why Christians die physically even after receiving the life of God is because God's life only revive their spirit not their body. The body is still spiritually death even after salvation. "For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." (Rom 8:6) Carnal is the same thing as flesh and that verse is saying the flesh is dead. Therefore each time we allow the flesh control our thought then we are walking in the kingdom of death and we would produce fruits onto death. But this doesn't mean we are spiritually dead (spiritually dead means to be a citizen of the kingdom of death) it simply means as citizens of the kingdom of God we have foolishly wondered into the kingdom of the devil and the evil in the kingdom of the devil (sin, sickness, poverty, depression etc) will jump on you. But God is good and He is always ready to cleans us. Anytime the word death is mentioned in the Bible it could be in any of the form listed above based on the context. The other type Of death is eternal death. "With teachings about purifying, the laying on of hands, the resurrection from the dead, and eternal judgment and punishment. [These are all matters of which you should have been fully aware long, long ago.]" (Heb 6:2 AMP) Eternal death can also be call second death. "Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." (Rev 20:14). This is were all those who do not have eternal life will end up. But for the book of Enoch, Jude quoted it when he said "Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints," (Jude 1:14) You can't find anywhere in the Bible where Enoch prophesy but you can find this exact same word in the book of Enoch 1:9. If you want to know more about the book of Enoch research it yourself. And when you do, research it with an open mind. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by Hiswordxray(m): 6:57pm On Feb 02, 2015 |
dolphinheart:The English meaning of Sheol/Hade is "place of death" not grave. There is no English word to describe what the Jewish call place of death that is why king James version use the word "hell" while some versions use the word "grave". Man is made up of spirit, soul and body. Those verses you quoted where talking about the body/flesh of man. The breath God breath into man gave man life and I know the Hebrew word for breath can also be translated as spirit but that breath is not the spirit of man. The Bible talked about "the spirit of man" which is different from the breath of God and this spirit has a soul. Look closely at these verses: "So the God of Israel stirred up the spirit of Pul king of Assyria, that is, Tiglath-Pileser b king of Assyria. He carried the Reubenites, the Gadites, and the half-tribe of Manasseh into captivity. He took them to Halah, Habor, Hara, and the river of Gozan to this day." (1Chro 5:26) "2 All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes, But the LORD weighs the spirits. 3 Commit your works to the LORD, And your thoughts will be established." (Prov 16:2-3) "14 The spirit of a man will sustain him in sickness, But who can bear a broken spirit? 15 The heart of the prudent acquires knowledge, And the ear of the wise seeks knowledge." (Prov 18:14) "For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God." (1Cor 2:11) "The burden a of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:" (Zec 12:1) this last verse tells us that God formed the spirit of man within man. It did say God breath the spirit but that God formed the spirit. And this spirit didn't came from outside into man through his nose but this spirit was formed within man. Now the verses that clearly tells us about the immortal soul is: "9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed." (Rev 6:9-11). The bold tells you the this people where dead and still dead but their souls was able to go to God and cry and speak. And these souls were also asked to rest until others were killed the way they were. I don't know if this will be enough to convince you but if you still think the soul is not immortal then explain those verses to me one by one. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by jdilight(m): 7:27pm On Feb 02, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR: If this is what makes you scream blue murder then you have not read the verse of the Bible that say, " the soul that sinneth shall die". In this verse all the Bible versions called it soul that sin shall die. You can not understand the Bible because you are not one of US. No matter how intelligent you are, you can not carry out a brain surgery unless your a neurosurgeon. Many Christians don't even understand the Bible not to talk of a total stranger. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by CANTICLES: 9:13pm On Feb 02, 2015 |
@hiswordxray IF U DONT UNDERSTAND a thing .... ask - all the scriptures u quoted speaks about the " spirit in men" , what is this spirit in people ?? " but it is the spirit in people, THE BREATH OF THE ALMIGHTY , that gives them understanding " Job 32:8 ! - about rev 6:9-11 Before u quote what u dont understand ... Wait, SO PEOPLE NW GO UNDER THE ALTAR TO REST , hardly have i heard any preacher preach this version in christianity ....... So, stayin under the altar is now d destination of saints. Huh Av u forgotten that revelation is written in "signs and symbols " REV 1:1 . What does that vision mean ? In ancient isreal, blood is sprinkled under the altar ... The reality is that its d souls of this sacrificial animals that is sprinkled, u know why ? [b]" pour the blood at the base of the altar.. For the soul of the flesh is in the blood " Lev 4:7, 17:11 , so also the soul/blood of this servant of God are under the altar because God view their death too as a sacrifice |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by Hiswordxray(m): 9:46pm On Feb 02, 2015 |
CANTICLES:I know you have become dogmatic and you are no longer open to the truth. But if you think I'm wrong then take every verse I quoted in my post above and prove to me the this spirit which you claim is God's breath doesn't have emotions. Or do breath have emotions? Then tell me why those verses I quoted about implies that the spirit have emotions. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by Hiswordxray(m): 9:59pm On Feb 02, 2015 |
CANTICLES:Wait a minutes. Are you saying souls can talk. I thought you said soul die when the person die. And are you said soul/blood wears clothes and rest in the alter. "Then a white robe was given to each of them;" (Rev 6:11). First you claim souls die and now you said they go to the alter, cry and wear cloth. Are you listening to yourself? See if you can't explain all those verses I quoted especially Zechariah then don't quote me again. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by CANTICLES: 10:47pm On Feb 02, 2015 |
[quote author=Hiswordxray post=3037141 [/quote] " the soul that sinneth, it itself shall die" ! Eze 18:4 this destroys the doctrine of immortal soul. , I used OTHER scripture to explain what the soul in this context of revelation refers to, which is their slain blood (Lev 17:11).... When the bible said they speak, did u forget that We are told that the blood of abel speaks ? Literal blood cant speak, infact Abel himself is dead " and as for the dead, they know nothing at all" Ecc 9:5 but it simply means Abel dies innocent, but his death needs to be revenged, so also the death of this servants of God like Abel needs to be revenged Vrs 11 refers to the ressurection ... Receivin white robes refer to their ressurection to immortality ( 1pet 1:4) When u read revelation, remember its written in " SIGNS/ symbols" Rev 1:1 ,e.g the "lamb" in revelation if taken literally will mean lamb, but OTHER part of the scriptures shows the lamb refer to Jesus Christ . 1 Like |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by CANTICLES: 10:50pm On Feb 02, 2015 |
Hiswordxray: God formed the spirit of man within him " the spirit within people, THE BREATH OF THE ALMIGHTY" job 32:8 Its God who formed the spirit within people , our breath .... Because it proceed from God. " breath in his nostrils" Gen 2:7 came from God OR " Spirit in our nostrils" Job 27:3 came from God |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by CAPTIVATOR: 10:00am On Feb 03, 2015 |
Hiswordxray Brother - Have U forgotten that revelation is presented in " SIGNS" ?? REV 1:1,2 - HAVE u forgotten that the book of revelation describes " FUTURE EVENTS" ? REV 1:1,2 - HAVE u forgotten that the opening of the seven seals by the symbolic lamb is a future event ?? Rev 4:1 - Have u forgoten that the RED HORSE, WHITE HORSE , PALE HORSE, CROOK HORSE and other items on the seals are all symbolic ?? - have u forgotten that the lamb that open the seal is not a literal lamb but symbolizing a person ?? LISTEN to canticles . |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by dolphinheart(m): 12:32pm On Feb 03, 2015 |
Hiswordxray: 1) Sir, my question was simple. I asked , Pls what is eternal life and what is immortality,? what's the difference between the two?. You did not tell us what eternal life is and what immortality is,neither did you tell us the difference between the two. You went on to describe ur view on who has one or both. My remark/answer: you stated that "Life to God is not continuous existence and death is not cease of existence." . Sir , if life to God is not continous existence , then life can cease to exist when it does not continue, and with scriptural quotations(which u have not refuted any), I have shown you what happens to man when he ceases to exist. Death( in man)is the siesure of life. You stated :"God is a spirit and he cannot cease to exist" . That does not mean that his created spirit creatures cannot cease to exist, why ? Cus they where created and unless granted eternal life, they can cease to exist. Or are you saying that God cannot reverse his works, he created the spirits and can uncreate them. Thereby sending them back to the state they where before their existence , and that is non -existence. 2) I asked; Pls give instances in the bible where man is said to be spiritualy dead and let's look at it . ? This instances you did not mention . You went on to state that the kingdom of the dead is the state where those who lived before jesus where, and that the light of God made them to be resistant to the laws of death. My remarks/answers: this mumbo-jumbo explanations does not work. You had early told me that the spiritualy dead are those who are alive on earth and lost touch with God as a result of Adams sins,and that is why they died. Now you are saying they are those in the kingdom of death, which is hell(the grave). Is someone alive and not yet dead also in the kingdom of death? (blibical prove pls)? And also pls give instances where the word spiritual(y)dead or death is mentioned in the bible and let's exermine it. What is the law of death? 3) the mumble jumble answer to 2 above will make me repeat this questions : (A)Is abel, Noah, moses, David , peter, paul, Isaiah, john, and those who where anointed by the holy spirit spiritualy dead while they are alive? If yes : how come they where still anointed with holy spirit (comunication with God) because spiritual dead means non communication with God. If no: why did you then state that adam and his descendants are spiritualy dead. (B) Are those who performed the act of resurrection before and after jesus spiritualy dead? (C) Is lazarus who was resurrected by jesus spiritualy dead? (D) Please what do you really mean by spiritualy dead (add sriptural prove pls) ? (E) If being spiritualy alive is what adam lost , what is the difference between perfect adam before the sin and his descendants in terms of there relationship with God. ? (F) What is the difference in the spiritual awareness of perfect adam and that of moses, elijah, paul and john. ? 4) to the book of enoch: this are questions that you did not answer (A) Are you saying that the book of enoch is inspired of God? (add prove) (B) Who wrote the book of enoch(add prove) (C) When was it written (add prove) (D) Did james say he quoted from the book? James made mention of the prophesy of enoch , he did not state he quoted from a particular book . That the book also contain that same prophecy does not mean james quoted from the book. Now let me make a general reply to what you posted: The opposite of life is death ; deut 30, 15,19: See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live. If you delibrately dnt follow Gods Word, when you die , u will not have life . If you follow Gods word, when you die , you will have ur life back. The Life in man and death of man is same and with same eventuality. Life is when man has breathe and can function . Death is the opposite. Death is when that lifeforce/breath leaves the physical body of man and animals Ps 104:29 ; When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath,they die and return to the dust. Ps 146:4 ; When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing. Ec 8:8 ;There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it. Why does man die Adam sinned and the consequence was death. When he had offsprings , he passed that sin and its consequence unto them and thus man dies. (ROM 5:12 , 6:25) God promised us life in the future when his son has payed the ransom for mankind if we follow him . If we dnt follow him, we dnt have that gift and we dnt exist . That life that God gives will never end cus the reason or cause for the loss of that life has been removed , namely sin. thus death is no more. what happens to man when he experiences death has been explained with numerous verses . Isa 55:3 is telling us that if we serve God, we shall have life when the cause of death, sin is being removed . All life , lion, chicken , man is the same , with same eventuality, the only difference is the gift of resurrection and eternal life . 2Peter 1:4. the divine nature is spirit nature, therefore those going to heaven will change their physical body to a spirit body. John 6;57: jesus life is sustained by God, and God granted jesus the power to Give life to us . Just like life, eternal life, death, eternal death . The opposite of eternal death is eternal life. If you have eternal death, there is no hope for you having life again . We are physical beings, we are flesh. The bible says when man losses his spirit/life force, he/the man turns to dust /dies. The man dies physicaly . "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." (Rom 7:23). In the bible , there is the ilustrative use of death. Death is personified as a ruler ruling over mankind from the time of Adam ( Ro 5:14), along with the rule of Sin. (Ro 6:12) Thus, these rulers are spoken of as exercising their “law” over those subject to their dominion. ( Ro 8:2) With Christ’s coming and the provision of the ransom, undeserved kindness began exercising a superior kingship over those accepting God’s gift, “with everlasting life in view.”— Ro 5:15-17, 21. Though men, disregarding God’s purposes, may try to make their own pact or covenant with the ruler Death, it will fail. ( Isa 28:15, 18) Death as Being Inactive:- "the soul that is sinning , it itself will die . When man / a soul dies, he becomes inactive because the for that makes him active has left. Rev20:14.: death and the condition or place of dead people will be cast into the lake of fire , this means death will be no more, and those who have not been giving life will be no more. No longer exist . |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by Hiswordxray(m): 2:11pm On Feb 03, 2015 |
dolphinheart:It seem like you didn't read what I wrote. You don't seem to be open minded probably because of your doctrine and belief which is blocking your eye from see. So let go back and try to remove your blind fold. First interpret this verses: "The burden a of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:" (Zec 12:1) What is the meaning of the bold? "21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better." (Philip 1:21-23). "So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord." (2Cor 5:6) "8 [Yes] we have confident and hopeful courage and are pleased rather to be away from home out of the body and be at home with the Lord. 9 Therefore, whether we are at home [on earth away from Him] or away from home [and with Him], we are constantly ambitious and strive earnestly to be pleasing to Him." (2Cor 5:8-9) What did Paul mean by being absent from the Lord and departing to be with Christ? "1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life." (2Cor 5:1-4) Is Paul talking about physical house, tent and cloth? If yes then how does these verses connect with the verses that follows? "6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." (2Cor 5:6-  But if your answer is No then why did Paul refers to his body as tent, house and cloth since man is flesh? See that tent, house or cloth needed to be put on or entered, then why did Paul used them to describe his body? Please explain thoroughly and let your answers be clear. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by dolphinheart(m): 2:26pm On Feb 03, 2015 |
@ hiswordxray 1)You stated that "The English meaning of Sheol/Hade is "place of death" not grave. There is no English word to describe what the Jewish call place of death that is why king James version use the word "hell" while some versions use the word "grave". My remark/answers : Sheol; She'ol , translated as "grave", "pit", or "abode of the dead", is the Hebrew term for the place of the dead, the common grave of humans, or underworld of the Hebrew Bible. It is a place of darkness to which all the dead go, both the righteous and the unrighteous, regardless of the moral choices made in life, a place of stillness and darkness cut off from life and from the Hebrew God. (source wikipedia) Hades :Hades (/ˈheɪdiːz/; from Ancient Greek Ἅιδης/ᾍδης) was the ancient Greek god of the underworld. Eventually, the god's name came to designate the abode of the dead. ..............The term "Hades" in Christian theology (and in New Testament Greek) is parallel to Hebrew sheol (שאול, "grave, dirt-pit"  , and refers to the abode of the dead.(source: wikipedia) Grave: A grave is a location where a dead body (typically that of a human, although sometimes that of an animal) is buried. (source:wikipedia) Sheol /hades/hell/gravedom , as used in the bible all mean the same thing , the common grave of mankind/ place of dead and not "place of death" (pls let us not twist meanings of words in the bible) 2)you stated that "Man is made up of spirit, soul and body." My remarks/ answers : when God created adam , he did not give adam a soul, adam is a soul by virtue of a lifeforce operating or activating his physical flesh . Adam is a soul, animals are souls . Or can you give us a place in the bible where man is directly said to be spirit, soul and flesh? (pls no derived analogy) 3)you stated that "Those verses you quoted where talking about the body/flesh of man. My remarks/ answers : the verses stated what happens to man , the verses did not state what happens to only his flesh,the verses helps us to understand that man is flesh , man is a living flesh, God said it several times. The verses stated what happens to his(mans) beliefs, his thoughts, hopes , aspirations, feelings, etc , all of these is the man , and all perish . I will restate the verses again . Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6: For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.(the dead experience neither joy nor torment. Indeed, since they are unconscious, they cannot experience anything at all) Ecclesiastes 9:10 ; Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave,(hell/sheol/hades) whither thou goest. Ps 115:17 ; The dead cannot sing praises to the LORD, for they have gone into the silence of the grave. Ps 146:4 ; His breath goeth forth, he(man / adam/you/me) returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts(thinking, belief, hope,knowledge) perish. Isa 38:18 ;"For Sheol cannot thank You, Death cannot praise You; Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your faithfulness. The soul that is sinning will die(go to hell ) 4) You stated : The Bible talked about "the spirit of man" which is different from the breath of God and this spirit has a soul. Look closely at these verses: "So the God of Israel stirred up the spirit of Pul king of Assyria, that is, Tiglath-Pileser b king of Assyria. He carried the Reubenites, the Gadites, and the half-tribe of Manasseh into captivity. He took them to Halah, Habor, Hara, and the river of Gozan to this day." (1Chro 5:26) "2 All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes, But the LORD weighs the spirits. 3 Commit your works to the LORD, And your thoughts will be established." (Prov 16:2-3) "14 The spirit of a man will sustain him in sickness, But who can bear a broken spirit? 15 The heart of the prudent acquires knowledge, And the ear of the wise seeks knowledge." (Prov 18:14) "For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God." (1Cor 2:11) "The burden a of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:" (Zec 12:1) this last verse tells us that God formed the spirit of man within man. It did say God breath the spirit but that God formed the spirit. And this spirit didn't came from outside into man through his nose but this spirit was formed within man. My remark/answer: Sir, all these verses never said the spirit in man has a soul .(no twisting pls) I will also explain further explain further . The spirit an an Impelling Mental Inclination: Ru′ach and pneu′ma are both used to designate the force that causes a person to display a certain attitude, disposition, or emotion or to take a certain action or course. While that force within the person is itself invisible, it produces visible effects. This use of the Hebrew and Greek terms rendered “spirit” and basically related to breath or to air in motion is paralleled to a considerable degree by English expressions. Thus, we speak of a person as ‘putting on airs,’ or of manifesting an ‘air of calmness’ or of ‘having a bad spirit.’ We speak of ‘breaking a person’s spirit,’ in the sense of discouraging and disheartening him. As applying to a group of persons and the dominant force activating them, we may talk of ‘getting into the spirit of an occasion,’ or we may refer to the ‘mob spirit’ that infects them. Metaphorically we may refer to an ‘atmosphere of discontent’ or to ‘winds of change and revolution blowing through a nation.’ By all of these we refer to this invisible activating force working in persons, moving them to speak and act as they do. Similarly, we read of Isaac and Rebekah’s “bitterness of spirit” resulting from Esau’s marriage to Hittite women ( Ge 26:34, 35) and of the sadness of spirit that overwhelmed Ahab, robbing him of his appetite. ( 1Ki 21:5) A “spirit of jealousy” could move a man to view his wife with suspicion, even to bring charges against her of adultery.— Nu 5:14, 30. The basic sense of a force that moves and gives “drive” or “thrust” to one’s actions and speech is also seen in the reference to Joshua as “a man in whom there is spirit” ( Nu 27:18), and to Caleb as demonstrating “a different spirit” from that of the majority of the Israelites who had become demoralized by the bad report of ten spies. ( Nu 14:24) Elijah was a man of much drive and force in his zealous service to God, and Elisha sought a two-part share in Elijah’s spirit as his successor. ( 2Ki 2:9, 15) John the Baptizer demonstrated the same vigorous drive and energetic zeal that Elijah had shown, and this resulted in John’s having a powerful effect on his listeners; hence he could be said to have gone forth “with Elijah’s spirit and power.” ( Lu 1:17) By contrast, Solomon’s wealth and wisdom had such an overwhelming and breathtaking effect on the queen of Sheba that “there proved to be no more spirit in her.” ( 1Ki 10:4, 5) So sir, In this same fundamental sense one’s spirit may be “stirred up” or “roused” ( 1Ch 5:26; Ezr 1:1, 5; Hag 1:14; compare Ec 10:4), become “agitated” or “irritated” (Ge 41:8; Da 2:1, 3; Ac 17:16), be “calmed down” (Jg 8:3), be ‘distressed,’ be made to ‘faint’ (Job 7:11; Ps 142:2, 3; compare Joh 11:33; 13:21), be ‘revived’ or “refreshed” (Ge 45:27, 28; Isa 57:15, 16; 1Co 16:17, 18; 2Co 7:13; hope this will help u understand the lifeforce that God gave man . Think of that life force as electricity that enables a fan to perform certain duty . The electricity is not the fan , but the fan cannot perform the functions of a fan without electricity, that is rotating its blades and rolling left and right. God, who gave the lifeforce or electricity can adjust the performance of the fan through the electricity giving . You stated: Now the verses that clearly tells us about the immortal soul is: "9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth ?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed ." (Rev 6:9-11). The bold tells you the this people where dead and still dead but their souls was able to go to God and cry and speak. And these souls were also asked to rest until others were killed the way they were. My remark / answer: sir , if you are taking this revelation literarily , then where is this alter located , heaven or hell? Why are they under the alter and crying out, thought they where supposed to sit on thrones and enjoy in heaven? In what sense are all the saints killed? this verses has already been addressed,and I'm in support or agree with the explanation, you are free to answer the questions. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by Hiswordxray(m): 9:23pm On Feb 03, 2015 |
dolphinheart Please answer my questions. First interpret this verses: "The burden a of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:" (Zec 12:1) What is the meaning of the bold? "21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better." (Philip 1:21-23). "So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord." (2Cor 5:6) "8 [Yes] we have confident and hopeful courage and are pleased rather to be away from home out of the body and be at home with the Lord. 9 Therefore, whether we are at home [on earth away from Him] or away from home [and with Him], we are constantly ambitious and strive earnestly to be pleasing to Him." (2Cor 5:8-9) What did Paul mean by being absent from the Lord and departing to be with Christ? "1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life." (2Cor 5:1-4) Is Paul talking about physical house, tent and cloth? If yes then how does these verses connect with the verses that follows? "6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." (2Cor 5:6- But if your answer is No then why did Paul refers to his body as tent, house and cloth since man is flesh? See that tent, house or cloth needed to be put on or entered, then why did Paul used them to describe his body? Please explain thoroughly and let your answers be clear. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by dolphinheart(m): 2:31pm On Feb 04, 2015 |
@ hiswordxray Sir, we started from what man is , I told you what man is and I asked you questions to show you that ur beliefs are not surported by the bible, instead of answering on the scriptures quoted you shifted the discusion to what happens to the soul when man dies . I answered you with the scriptures, asked you questions based on those scriptures which you tried playing philosophy with, refusing to answer them directly. You have now shifted to the issue of the spirit in man and posted several questions to me. Unlike you I will endeavor to answer ur questions and try my best to explain the scripture u posted with scriptural prove to back it up. I hope in ur reply you will do the same and answer the numerous questions you have so far unanswered. And please refrain from using derogatory words, I'm not blind neither I'm I blindfolded. Now let's look at the scriptures you said I should give my personal understanding of . 1) "The burden a of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:" (Zec 12:1) My understanding: The issue in this verse is the "spirit of man" that is "formed within man" .what is the spirit of man and how is it formed in man. Job 32:8 says ; But there is a spirit within people, the breath of the Almighty within them, that makes them intelligent(animaed,thinking creatures). This verse helps us to know that the spirit in man is the breath of God within them . This simple biblical explanation might not be accepted by you (I might be wrong anyway)so I will go further to explain the issue of it being "formed in man " The account of the creation of man states that God formed man from the dust of the ground and proceeded to “blow [form of na·phach′] into his nostrils the breath [form of nesha·mah′] of life, and the man came to be a living soul [ne′phesh].” ( Ge 2:7; Ne′phesh may be translated literally as “a breather,” that is, “a breathing creature,” either human or animal. Nesha·mah′ is, in fact, used to mean “breathing thing [or creature]” and as such is used as a virtual synonym of ne′phesh, “soul.” (Compare De 20:16; Jos 10:39, 40; 11:11; 1Ki 15:29.) The record at Genesis 2:7 uses nesha·mah′ in describing God’s causing Adam’s body to have life so that the man became “a living soul.” Other texts, however, show that more was involved than simple breathing of air, that is, more than the mere introduction of air into the lungs and its expulsion therefrom. Thus, at Genesis 7:22, in describing the destruction of human and animal life outside the ark at the time of the Flood, we read: “Everything in which the breath [form of nesha·mah′] of the force [or, “spirit” (ru′ach)] of life was active in its nostrils, namely, all that were on the dry ground, died.” Nesha·mah′, “breath,” is thus directly associated or linked with ru′ach, which here describes the spirit, or life-force, that is active in all living creatures—human and animal souls. As the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (Vol. VI, p. 336) states: “Breath may be discerned only in movement [as in the movement of the chest or the expanding of the nostrils], and it is also a sign, condition and agent of life, which seems to be esp[ecially] tied up with breathing.” Hence, the nesha·mah′, or “breath,” is both the product of the ru′ach, or life-force, and also a principal means of sustaining that life- force in living creatures. It is known from scientific studies, for example, that life is present in every single cell of the body’s one hundred trillion cells and that, while thousands of millions of cells die eachminute, constant reproduction of new living cells goes on. The life-force active in all the living cells is dependent upon the oxygen that breathing brings into the body, which oxygen is transported to all the cells by the bloodstream. Without oxygen some cells begin to die after several minutes, others after a longer period. While a person can go without breathing for a few minutes and still survive, without the life-force in his cells he is dead beyond all human ability to revive him. The Hebrew Scriptures, inspired by man’s Designer and Creator, evidently use ru′ach to denote this vital force that is the very principle of life, and nesha·mah′ to represent the breathing that sustains it. Because breathing is so inseparably connected with life, nesha·mah′ (breath)and ru′ach(spirit) are used in clear parallel in various texts. Job voiced his determination to avoid unrighteousness “while my breath [form of nesha·mah′] is yet whole within me, and the spirit [weru′ach] of God is in my nostrils.” (Job 27:3-5) Elihu said: “If that one’s spirit [form of ru′ach] and breath [form of nesha·mah′] he [God gathers to himself, all flesh will expire [that is, “breathe out”] together, and earthling man himself will return to the very dust.” ( Job 34:14, 15) Similarly, Psalm 104:29 says of earth’s creatures, human and animal: “If you [God] take away their spirit, they expire, and back to their dust they go.” The breath (nesha·mah′) sustains their existence; the spirit (ru′ach) energizes and is the life-force that enables man to be an animated creature, to move, walk, be actively alive. (Compare Ac 17:28.) He is not like the lifeless, breathless, inanimate idols of human fabrication.— Ps 135:15, 17; Jer 10:14; 51:17; Hab 2:19. While nesha·mah′ (breath) and ru′ach (spirit; active force; life-force) are sometimes used in a parallel sense, they are not identical. True, the “spirit,” or ru′ach, is at times spoken of as though it were the respiration (nesha·mah′) itself, but this seems to be simply because breathing is the prime visible evidence of the life-force(spirit formed) in one’s body.— Job 9:18; 19:17; 27:3. Thus at Ezekiel 37:1-10 the symbolic vision of the valley of dry bones is presented, the bones coming together, becoming covered with sinews, flesh, and skin, but “as regards breath [weru′ach], there was none in them.” Ezekiel was told to prophesy to “the wind [ha·ru′ach],” saying, “From the four winds [form of ru′ach] come in, O wind, and blow upon these killed people, that they may come to life.” The reference to the four winds shows that wind is the appropriate rendering for ru′ach in this case. However, when such “wind,” which is simply air in motion, entered the nostrils of the dead persons of the vision, it became “breath,” which is also air in motion. Thus, the rendering of ru′ach as “breath” at this point of the account ( vs 10) is also more appropriate than “spirit” or “life-force.” Ezekiel also would be able to see the bodies begin to breathe, even though he could not see the life-force, or spirit, energizing their bodies. As verses 11-14 show, this vision was symbolic of a spiritual (not physical) revivification of the people of Israel who were for a time in a spiritually dead state due to their Babylonian exile. Since they were already physically alive and breathing, it is logical to render ru′ach as “spirit” in verse 14, where God states that he will put ‘his spirit’ in his people so that they would become alive, spiritually speaking. A similar symbolic vision is given at Revelation chapter 11. The picture is presented of “two witnesses” who are killed and whose corpses are allowed to lie on the street for three and a half days. Then “spirit [or breath, pneu′ma] of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet.” ( Re 11:1-11) This vision again draws on a physical reality to illustrate a spiritual revivification. It also shows that the Greek pneu′ma, like the Hebrew ru′ach, may represent the life-giving force from God that animates the human soul or person. As James 2:26 states: “The body without spirit [pneu′ma·tos] is dead.” Therefore, when God created man in Eden and blew into his nostrils “the breath [form of nesha·mah′] of life,” it is evident that, in addition to filling the man’s lungs with air, God caused the life-force, or spirit (ru′ach), to vitalize all the cells in Adam’s body.— Ge 2:7; compare Ps 104:30; Ac 17:25. This life-force is passed on from parents to offspring through conception. Since Jehovah was the original Source of this life- force for man, and the Author of the procreation process, one’s life can properly be attributed to Him, though received not directly but indirectly through one’s parents. Life-force, or spirit, is impersonal. As noted, the Scriptures refer to the ru′ach, or life-force, as being not only in humans but also in animals. ( Ge 6:17; 7:15, 22) Ecclesiastes 3:18-22 shows that man dies in the same manner as the beasts, for “they all have but one spirit [weru′ach], so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast,” that is, as to the life-force common to both. This being so, it is clear that the “spirit,” or life-force (ru′ach), as used in this sense is impersonal. So the spirit formed within man is the lifeforce that is within man, which God formed in man , which animates him . 2). "21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 For I am hard- pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better." (Philip 1:21-23). My understanding of the verses quoted : Paul stated in galatians Galatians 2:20: I am nailed to the stake along with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who is living in union with me. Indeed, the life that I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and handed himself over for me. He also stated in 2 Timothy 4:8: From this time on, there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a reward in that day, yet not to me only, but also to all those who have loved his manifestation. Therefore if he lives, he lives for Christ , if he dies, he gains the reward of his faithfulness. was Paul under pressure, and what “releasing” did he desire? Because of the circumstances he was in, (as he was in prison and probably facing death) Paul was under pressure from the two possibilities open to him: life or death. ( Phil. 1:21) While not stating what he would choose, he makes known what he desired—“the releasing and the being with Christ.” ( Phil. 3:20, 21; 1 Thess. 4:16) This “releasing” during Christ’s presence would result in Paul’s receiving the reward that Jehovah had prepared for him.— Matt. 24:3 3)"So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord ." (2Cor 5:6) "8 [Yes] we have confident and hopeful courage and are pleased rather to be away from home out of the body and be at home with the Lord . 9 Therefore, whether we are at home [on earth away from Him] or away from home [and with Him], we are constantly ambitious and strive earnestly to be pleasing to Him." (2Cor 5:8-9) What did Paul mean by being absent from the Lord and departing to be with Christ? O "1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found Unclad. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life." (2Cor 5:1-4) Is Paul talking about physical house, tent and cloth?If yes then how does these verses connect with the verses that follows? "6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." (2Cor 5:6- But if your answer is No then why did Paul refers to his body as tent, house and cloth since man is flesh? See that tent, house or cloth needed to be put on or entered, then why did Paul used them to describe his body? Please explain thoroughly and let your answers be clear. My exlanation of the scriptures above: First of all,let me state clearly that contrary to some believe, in the verses of 2 cor 5:1-10 , no mention is being made of an object or substance eg soul or spirit being housed by the body (flesh). If paul was trying to imply that something is being housed , he would likely have made mention of what is being housed. We must also note that the word "entering" or "entered" (to signify that something left something and moved into another thing ) is not mentioned in those verses (like I said before, dnt try to twist thoughts by adding what is not there) I will also like you to read these verses as they give us a better understanding of my explanation. 2 Peter 1:13, 14 Php 3:10, 11 Romans 8:23 1 Corinthians 12:13 1 Corinthians 15:43 Philippians 1:21 Now to my personal understanding . The main issue is the use of tents and houses in those verse. Tents were a distinctive feature of nomadic life, contrasting with the houses of those having a more settled life. Thus, Abraham is described as ‘dwelling in tents’ while he was “awaiting the city having real foundations.” ( Heb 11:9, 10) It seems that during their stay in Egypt, the Israelites mainly lived in houses, not tents. ( Ex 12:7) But upon leaving Egypt, they reverted to tents ( Ex 16:16) and used them throughout the 40 years in the wilderness. (Le 14:8; Nu 16:26) During this period two particular tents were especially important, “the tabernacle” and Moses’ tent.— Ex 25:8, 9; 26:1; 33:7; Now even after the Israelites conquered the Promised Land, tents were still used at times by shepherds or agricultural workers in the field. ( Ca 1: Zechariah 12:7 likely refers to such ones, as they would be the first to be affected and in need of protection if an enemy nation came against the land to attack the city of Jerusalem. Also, tents were used by military commanders and armies when on distant expeditions.— 1Sa 17:54; 2Ki 7:7; compare Da 11:45.Therefore The long contact of the Israelites with tents undoubtedly gave rise to the poetic use of “tent” to refer to any habitation, even if it was a normal house.— Ex 12:23, 30; 1Sa 13:2; 1Ki 12:16; Ps 78:51. This familiarity with tents is also reflected in the Bible’s many figurative references to tents. Regarding the time he was approaching death, Hezekiah wrote: “My own habitation has been pulled out and removed from me like the tent of shepherds.” ( Isa 38:12) As a tent occupying a spot could quickly be taken down and removed, the poles taken out and the pegs pulled up, so Hezekiah’s place in the land of the living seemed transitory and easily removed. Eliphaz likened death to pulling out the tent cord, which would make a tent collapse.—Job 4:21. In portraying the destruction to come upon the Jews, Jeremiah used the figure of a tent. ( Jer 4:20) He likened the desolated nation to a woman whose tent was down, with its cords cut. Adding to the pathetic condition, her sons were in exile, so there was no one remaining who could help her with the work of raising and stretching the tent. ( Jer 10:20) When the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem, the city as a former collection of dwellings could be described as “the tent of the daughter of Zion” into which God had poured his rage.— La 2:4. Somewhat similarly, Paul used the metaphor of a tent when speaking of the human bodies of spirit-begotten(those with heavenly hope) Christians. A collapsible tent is a more fragile and temporary dwelling than a normal house. Though existing on earth in a mortal body of flesh, the Christians who have the spirit as a token of the heavenly life to come look forward to “a building from God,” a heavenly body that is everlasting, incorruptible.— 1Co 15:50-53; 2Co 5:1-5; compare 2Pe 1:13, 14. Jesus promised those who will go to heaven a new home and they will reside in it with a spirit body . I dnt know The way the spirit body looks cus I've never seen one , humans can't see spirit creatures unless they materialise or show us visions. But as at the time the verses were written, the disciples were on earth in a human form (flesh)but they aspire to be with jesus, to do so they will have to die and be ressurected with a spirit body to be with Christ,thus being clothed in a new body . |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by Hiswordxray(m): 4:35pm On Feb 04, 2015 |
Well, you tried. But first can you see that almost all your explanations are either scientific or historical, exactly the kind of explanation a carnal man will give. So when I call you "carnal" I am not abusing you but I am saying the truth with love. It grieves me to see Christians being so carnal. Anyway, my remarks about your answers: 1) It's too long... And first you said the breath of God is the spirit and you quoted verses to prove it. But now you are saying the breath is not the spirit but the life-force formed by the breath is the spirit. The Bible verses you quoted shows clearly that the breath of God is the spirit in man; Job 32:8 says ; But there is a spirit within people, the breath of the Almighty within them, that makes them intelligent(animaed,thinking creatures). “while my breath [form of nesha·mah′] is yet whole within me, and the spirit [weru′ach] of God is in my nostrils.” (Job 27:3-5) Now if you claim the breath is the spirit and the life-force is the spirit then they are two spirit in man. 2)My question is what is “the releasing and the being with Christ.” But you didn't answer the question at all. You only succeeded in giving me back the question. 3) dolphinheart:Here it is, now you said it yourself. This is what I have been trying to say all along i.e Christians exist in a mortal body of flesh. We are not the mortal body of flesh but we exist in a mortal body of flesh. The question now is who are we? Simple we are spirit existing in a mortal body of flesh. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by dolphinheart(m): 10:00pm On Feb 04, 2015 |
I replied you not because I wanted you to accept the truth about man and what he is, I did it because their might be others who read this thread and who want to know the truth, I already had the feeling that wateva I say will not be accepted by you cus of the reasons ill state later. But first ,why are you saying its too long? Are you not the one who said I should be thorough? If its long, can't you take you time to read it? did you not read my post? Because its too long? Why are you trying to say I said something I did not say? Did you not read where I said "The record at Genesis 2:7 uses nesha·mah′ in describing God’s causing Adam’s body to have life so that the man became “a living soul.” Other texts, however, show that more was involved than simple breathing of air, that is, more than the mere introduction of air into the lungs and its expulsion therefrom?.did I not show u the bible texts? Did I not thoroughly explain to you why such texts are the way they are, and why they are used interchangeably, and what they mean? You stated that my explanation are either historical or scientific , Haba! Why now! , did I note quote severaly from the bible again? Are those quote historical or biblical? Are they not inspired words from our creator who knows our makeup well well again? What is scientific with the things I posted on living cells that a layman will not understand? Did I not tell you with many supporting scriptures that "This “releasing”during Christ’s presence would result in Paul’s receiving the reward that Jehovah had prepared for him.— Matt. 24:3" Your attempt to look for words or phrases in the bible to support ur pagan beliefs will not work . God in his unreacheable wisdom has protected the truth in the bible in such a way that its imposible to twist . God made sure that the scriptures answers and support the scriptures, not contradicting each other, if there is an issue with the understanding of a phrase, word, sentence in a verse, there are numerous verses that can help us in understanding what that verse really mean or what that verse is trying to tell us. And this I have done in my disscussion with you, I did not use philosophy (human knowledge) like you have done. You have so far refused to answer questions posted to you , but ill ask one more, and I hope you answer . If the spirit is the man , then it must be different spirit that I and u have , when did God put that spirit in the body u now occupy ? When you where still a sperm or when you entered the egg.? What do you think of the recent british law that was passed where some things in one embryo can be removed and added to another embryo, is the spirit removed in such state ? Ones a sperm enters an egg, they form a zygote, if that zygote splits to form twins, is it two spirits that enter the zygote? Now to why I feel you wunt accept my explanation. Some learned religious individuals know the truth about the immortal soul. But teaching it to their followers and fellows will cause Wahala to their source or part of their source of income, more importantly there exalted position and titles among their fellows, Hence the lie must continue. As long as someone, or a group of people force you to part with your money so that they can be fed, be wary of what they teach you . For they will be prone to teach you things that will make you to be hooked to them, things that will tickle their ears .(2 ti 4:3) They will tell you its only them that can teach you what is in the bible cus the holy spirit is in them ,that you are canal and they are spiritual , but they refuse to display its fruitage eg compassion for the poor among them. Pls read the bible, ask questions so that the truth can become clearer ! |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by Nobody: 11:33pm On Feb 04, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR: You are dumb to make that bible verse your only source of information regarding transcendence. What if the verse is wrong? Was it not a man who wrote that verse? What about the numerous other sources that say the exact opposite, from various other religions (including that of your ancestors) to the modern accounts of near-death experiencers? How can you simply disregard what everyone else says only to accept one account from a book whose source and agenda you haven't the slightest clue about? So the day you die and find out you're not really 'dead', but merely transcended to a higher form of existence, what would you do? |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by Hiswordxray(m): 7:43am On Feb 05, 2015 |
dolphinheart:What I mean is that you explanation is not inspired by the Spirit, it is totally carnal - historical and scientific. The verses you quoted are old testament verses written by spiritually death people who know nothing about spiritual things (they are children when it comes to spiritual things). I am not saying they are not inspired by God but I'm saying they are children and their are things that a father can't tell his children because they are too small to understand and it may not be useful to them until they grow up. "Now before the faith came, we were perpetually guarded under the Law, kept in custody in preparation for the faith that was destined to be revealed (unveiled, disclosed),... But now that the faith has come, we are no longer under a trainer (the guardian of our childhood)." (Gal 3:23 &25). Here Paul explain that the people under the law are children. The word devil was never mentioned in the old testament but does that mean devil does not exist. Nobody in the old testament was able to resist the Satan but God have to rebuke Satan for them but in the new testament we were asked to resist the devil. They were children, they think like children and God only revealed to them things that children can handle. You didn't answer number two at all. You want me to ask questions but here is my questions so Please answer them: "21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better." (Philip 1:21-23). "So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord." (2Cor 5:6) "8 [Yes] we have confident and hopeful courage and are pleased rather to be away from home out of the body and be at home with the Lord. 9 Therefore, whether we are at home [on earth away from Him] or away from home [and with Him], we are constantly ambitious and strive earnestly to be pleasing to Him." (2Cor 5:8-9) What did Paul mean by being absent from the Lord and departing to be with Christ? "1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life." (2Cor 5:1-4) Is Paul talking about physical house, tent and cloth? If yes then how does these verses connect with the verses that follows? "6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." (2Cor 5:6- But if your answer is No then why did Paul refers to his body as tent, house and cloth since man is flesh? See that tent, house or cloth needed to be put on or entered, then why did Paul used them to describe his body? Even you by yourself have stated that we are not flesh but we exist in flesh: dolphinheart:Here it is, now you said it yourself. This is what I have been trying to say all along i.e Christians exist in a mortal body of flesh. We are not the mortal body of flesh but we exist in a mortal body of flesh. The question now is who are we? Simple we are spirit existing in a mortal body of flesh. dolphinheart:Another evidence of your carnality. We are talking about spiritual things and here you are mentioning zygote, egg, sperm and embryos. All you know is what the world have taught you and you are using the world's wisdom to explain and understand the Bible. "19 For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.” a 20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe." (1Cor 19-21). Even if I answer this question it is clear that you won't understand because "the god of this age [this world] has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them." (2Cor 4:4). It sad that the devil had used human knowledge such as science and history to blind you. But if you want to be set free then try harder to answer my questions. dolphinheart:This is the excuse they all used but thank God for His grace in my life. Read all my post in this trend and you will find the content of love in each. And if you are not satisfied then read all my post in nairaland and all you will see is pure love. Guess what, the Bible says "7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love." (1John 4:7- .So maybe you should listen to me and let me help you. God loves you but you are too carnal and it grieves him to see His children being so carnal. If you love God then listen to your heart and ask yourself these questions: 1) All those doctrines you were taught are the producing real fruit or are they only motivating you to act like someone who has the fruit of the Spirit? 2) Are you really satisfied with what you have? Look deep into your heart and ask "is this really it?" 3) Have your doctrines allow you to really experience God? I know they have filled your head with things like "you don't need to experience anything supernatural for you to believe God". And this statement is true but the Bible says " having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!" (2Tim 3:5) One of Paul's greatest defence of the Gospel this statement "For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power." (1Cor 4:20). 4) Do you really feel like a son of the Almighty Creator or do you feel like another mere human being given a set of belief? Please my brother try to open your eye and see. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by CAPTIVATOR: 7:11pm On Feb 05, 2015 |
ROSSIKE: Before you type that emotional outburst ..... Do u realize that when Adam died he " RETURN to the Ground" and became as lifeless as the dust from which he was taken - Read Genesis 3:19 . When Jesus died, he became unconscious ecc 9:5,10 ... JESUS Didnt possess an immortal soul that go to heaven immediately he died. as a matter of scriptures Jesus didnt ascend to heaven until 40 days after his RESSURECTION from the grave. ALL LIVINGS THINGS DIE .... DEATH IS DEATH. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by dolphinheart(m): 10:23pm On Feb 05, 2015 |
@ hiswordxray Sir, my explanations are from the scriptures , several scriptures . So unless those scriptures are not inspired , then my explanations will not be inspired by the spirit. If you can prove that jehovah did not speak to those you called spiritually dead people, that jehovah did not give them his spirit, that they did not perform miracles , that they did not see visions, and did not prophesy , then ill believe you. Elijah enoch and the prophets where children abi, Solomon, the wisest man was a child abi ?that God reveals things at different times does not mean those of old where children. I would love to discuss about the verses of gal 3 :23-25 , but I wunt . Ill rather tell you to read Hebrews chapter 11(too long to post here) Jesus is called “the Chief Agent [Chief Leader] and Perfecter of our faith.” ( Heb 12:2) True, long before the coming of Jesus Christ, Abraham’s faith was “perfected” by his works of faith and obedience, so that he gained God’s approval and became party with God in an oath-bound covenant. ( Jas 2:21-23; Ge 22:15-18) But the faith of all those men of faith living prior to Jesus’ earthly ministry was incomplete, or imperfect, in the sense of their not understanding the then unfulfilled prophecies regarding him as God’s Seed and Messiah. ( 1Pe 1:10-12) By his birth, ministry, death, and resurrection to heavenly life, these prophecies came to fulfillment, and the faith about Christ had a strengthened foundation, one filled out with historical facts. Thus, faith in this perfected sense “arrived” through Christ Jesus ( Ga 3:24, 25), who thereby proved to be the leader/ pioneer/ Chief Agent of our faith. He continued to be the Perfecter of the faith of his followers from his heavenly position, by pouring down holy spirit on them at Pentecost and by imparting revelations that progressively filled out and developed their faith.— Ac 2:32, 33; Heb 2:4; Re 1:1, 2; 22:16; Ro 10:17. So hiswordxray, if you feel you have that holy spirit, what it impacts to you must be in accordance with the revelations of old, that is in the bible , it must not contradict them. I answered ur questions, take time and read them . I even added several other verses to butress my point. Continualy reposting statements will not make it right. I've explained what the bible tells us the soul is, what the spirit in us is and what God (our creator) calls us(the created ), you refused to answer questions based on those verses . We are talking about what man is , if you are a spirit , when did God give you a body. ? Dnt use. Mago mago to run away from questions, its politicians that do that. You have run away from too many questions on this thread. Its good to have love for others, but the moment one forces them to part with their money and one uses that money for personal survival just because one had the holy spirit, the ones love is fake. 1) its for others to decide if the Fruitage of the spirit are being shown by me. 2)I'm verry satisfied with what I have , having sustenance and covering, I'm contented with those things. spiritualy, I'm fully ready to follow the words found at 2 Timothy 3 14-17 which says 14 :You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from whom you learned them 15 and that from infancy you have known the holy writings,(the scriptures) which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work. While praying for his kingdom to come so that if God accepts that I have those good works as prescribed in the bible, I can gain eternal life and help fufill the words that he told adam , "be fruitful, and fill the earth , and have in subjection everything in it" 3) yep, expecially his love for me . I have seen that his guidiance if for my own good. If teaching me the truth, showing me from the scriptures what God wants me to do and how he wants me to live a good life is "filling My head" the such filling is true. Those that have form of godly devotion and prove false to its powers are those who know the truth but are lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, and from these, despite my imperfection I try my best to turn away. The apostle Paul personally received power to perform his ministry. As a result, his ministry was effective. To Christians in Thessalonica, he wrote: “The good news we preach did not turn up among you with speech alone but also with power and with holy spirit.” (1 Thessalonians 1:5) His preaching and teaching had the power to work great changes in the lives of me who listened to him. 4) I feel like a child of God, cus when I pray to him and pray that everything be done according to his will, he answers. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by Hiswordxray(m): 2:47pm On Feb 07, 2015 |
dolphinheart:You don't understand what love is and that is why you are misunderstanding me. Love is humble. "4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." (1Cor 13:4-7). Because of love I spend time and type so much despite the fact that I am a lazy writer. "Love suffers long and is kind". Because of love I didn't try to as make you believe and agree with my doctrine but a asked you to consider it. "Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking". Because of love I refused to answer any question that will not help you, for I do not desire to prove how knowledgeable I am but all I desire is to help you. "love does not parade itself,... does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth". Because of love I foolishly believe and hope that a core JW like you will be open minded and able to understand spiritual things. "Love... believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.". I have shown you love all this while but you throw it back at my face. If I think you were right I would have humble myself and accept. But my dear you are wrong and too carnal and this had cause me to grieve. I asked you those questions in order to help you open your eyes. And I succeeded for a minute... dolphinheart:But you shot your eyes again. You prefer to be blind and you like being deceived. What can I do, I can't force you to see if you don't want to. But I weep for you my brother... I weep. |
| Re: A Deadly Blow that DESTROYS the Doctrine of Immortal Soul by dolphinheart(m): 6:19pm On Feb 07, 2015 |
@ hiswordxray Everyone can see what you have been doing in the discussion , we started with the soul, I explained with the bible what the soul is, you found it hard in aligning those scriptures and subsequent questions asked to ur belief so you shifted the discussion to what the spirit is, I explained what the spirit God gave man is, using the scriptures while doing so. You find it hard to align what the spirit in us is with your beliefs,and also refusing to answer bible based questions. You now shifted the discussion to discrediting and belittling the faith and belief in God that the people who lived before jesus came had and thought and recorded in the bible . Not having an answer to their statements recorded in the bible, you attacked them by stating that they are children when it comes to spiritual things because you came in a time when more sacred secrets have been revealed. Those people had less knowledge , but even you cannot match the faith they had . Let that spirit that you claim is in you tell u to sacrifice your son and let's see what you will do. let that spirit tell you to sell all ur belongings and give to the poor and see what you will do. Let that spirit tell you to leave Nigeria and relocate to the dessert in Somalia and let's see if you wunt stop hearing that spirit talk to you again. Having giving you numerous verses supporting my points ,and you not able to answer the question posed to you on ur beliefs, you have now shifted the discussion to attacking me,telling me I dnt undterstand what love is, and like always shifting the topic(this time to love) but I wunt go into that game with you. If you have love in you , then its good. If because you have love in you, and you type not because you feel you must defend ur throne, ur image on this thread, then its good. If the love in you allows you not to answer bible based questions , then its good. If its the love that makes you shorten my words, remove my explanations, and hold on strongly to the remaining part statement like a drowning man will hold on to anything its hand can Grasp , then its good. My question remains, if you are a spirit housed in ur body, when did God put ur spirit in ur present house? My advise remains, get off ur high horse, sit down and read the bible! |
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